Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: redrumloa on April 18, 2003, 06:58:06 PM
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Yup my Pegasos is in the mail and will be here next week. If there is interest I will do a full review for A-Org. Post here if you are interested.
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Uuuuiiiiiiiii Red's gonna go to the dark side ....
/me looks completly innocent :-P
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LOL yup:-)
I think I always said when it was available for immediate shipping, I'd take a look though. Well my payment arrived on a Thursday and it shipped on Friday, what more could I ask for? I look foward to giving it a spin.
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While it's extremely unlikely I'd purchase one of these, I'd still like to see what it's got to offer.
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@redrumloa,
1) Check your PM
2) Of course we're interested in hearing/seeing about any experiences with building EITHER a Pegasos, an AmigaOne, or even installing emulation on a PC.
As long as it helps those here who are interested in the Amiga, anything is helpful..
Wayne
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...ehhhhmm
Yes, Jim and we shipped your board EVEN if your money order was made out to "Pegasos USA" instead of Genesi USA....;-)
We hope you appreciate the package! (...and tell us if the t-shirt fits...;-) )
Best regards and Happy Easter!
Raquel and Bill :-)
P.S. We might have to figure out the "money" issue later!
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@redrumloa,
I think between You, Targhan, and me, we ought to arrange a "duelling review" (and the banjos begin to play).
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I think I always said when it was available for immediate shipping, I'd take a look though. Well my payment arrived on a Thursday and it shipped on Friday, what more could I ask for? I look foward to giving it a spin.
You're not the only one who's looking forward to getting their Pegasos.. :-o
Now all I need to pick up is a case. :-D
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Yes, Jim and we shipped your board EVEN if your money order was made out to "Pegasos USA" instead of Genesi USA....
Sorry about that, I was a little confused :-/ Let me know if you need me to take any actions. Thanks for shipping so quick!
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Please do. I like to read what other people have found.
I have here some picures (http://www.belymt.com/~jkurki/pega/) of assembling my pega. I'll need to add couple more pictures cause I have since added Catweasel 3 . Note, there are not yet any screengrabs, cause I have had not adjusted it so that it woud look personal enough. :-P
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Wayne wrote:
@redrumloa,
I think between You, Targhan, and me, we ought to arrange a "duelling review" (and the banjos begin to play).
This will be one hell of a review!
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Joanna,
Once I get mine assembled and installed, I would LOVE to be able to figure out a way to compare the Radeon you have to my soon-to-be-received 7000.
Would be "so very".
Wayne
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Hey Joanna, that is VERY cool!
Thanks!
Please develop a full report too. OK?! :-D
The G4 upgrade will be available on 1 July via www.pegasosppc.com. We will be integrating www.pegasos-usa.com into this site. We will also be offering an incredible software bundle, because we want to have the happiest computer users in the world before the Pegasos II arrives...;-)
(...you have not seen nothing yet!!! :-D )
Best regards,
Raquel and Bill :-)
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[drool-mode]
G4-update ? SW-bundle ?
[/drool-mode]
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G4-update ? SW-bundle ?
Good news indeed!!
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I'am glad I msg redrumloa to tell him to contact Greenboy ASAP !
I'am also writing a review. It is more like a diary now but I will need some time to do in depth tests before writing something interesting.
G4 upgrade for july :-o
It's going to be a very interesting year :-P
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@JoannaK
Nice setup, good to see the desktop case isn`t dead. (most people use towers)
Have you installed your catweasel yet? Does morphos have drivers for it?
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rock on red... I'd be very interested in reading your opinon (since it would probably be the most unbiased I've read yet)...
and am I to understand Wayne is getting a Pegasos even?... now that will be interesting to hear from.
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L8-X wrote:
Nice setup, good to see the desktop case isn`t dead. (most people use towers)
Well.. it was more like accident, and I'm considering moving it to some more flashy case later... Like when I upgrade to Pegasos 2. :-D
Have you installed your catweasel yet? Does morphos have drivers for it?
Yep. It's on PCI slot and 3.5" drive is there too. So far I have only found Pegasos drivers for Floppy controller, but I have heard rumours that Sidplayer would not be far away anymore.
CW3 Floppy controller works quite nicely, I have only used it to read various Amiga and PC-HD disks. Only issue ( beta driver) I have found that sometimes it does not seem to recoglize diskchanges as automatically as it should. But it's not a biggie.
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I will do a review aswell, but I will wait till update for MOS 1.3 has been released, and a week or two to that, as I want to give FULL review instead of first impressions.
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thats great to hear wayne.... I hope it does good for you... I'm waiting for Peggy2 right now...but I'll be happy to hear what you have to say about it...and I hope it does good for you guys...
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Hooligan_DCS wrote:
I will do a review aswell, but I will wait till update for MOS 1.3 has been released, and a week or two to that, as I want to give FULL review instead of first impressions.
MOS 1.3 is included with each system.
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@Red & Wayne
Yes, you guys write reviews and add pictures (no dirty ones :-) ), it will be a very interesting read.
@bbrv
Well what can i say about you guys?
You have released products which you said you would and people have received the goods, which is great to see in the Amiga community at long last.
The all talk and no action goes out of the window :-)
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yep.... good for people all around... a company that actually delivers a board/os/ (and) t-shirts :)
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bbrv wrote:
Please develop a full report too. OK?! :-D
Ok, but if I may I'll write it first to Finish user club e-magazine (Saku)..
I like Pegasos more each day I use it. It ain't perfect system (yet), but after years of using windowse it's really nice to have something different.
The G4 upgrade will be available on 1 July .... We will also be offering an incredible software bundle, because we want to have the happiest computer users in the world before the Pegasos II arrives... ;-)
G4 upgrade at July and even more bundles... What could I say?
As a quick technical update for those interested. Thanks to supportative people at #morphos I got DVI-output to work on my Radeon 9100 graphics card. Now I have digitally connected 1600*1024 (24bit) Ambient screen on my 20" LCD ... Looks really sharp :-D
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I personally believe that desktops are the sexiest of all computers. I love the Amiga 2000 case, a true desktop tank.
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Hi Jim...your money order is good to go. See email just sent you!
Have fun!!!
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill :-)
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@Damien
"MOS 1.3 is included with each system."
I know, I said "UPDATE for MOS1.3" :)
I am using 1.3 here but an update will soon be released.. which should fix some nasty things.
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@redrumloa
A nice unbiased useful review from you will
do nicely thanks! Unlike some who are clearly
without a memory chip I recall a few times
that you have said you would consider/get one
when they were generally available. Don't forget
to upgrade as soon as you get it tho else you might
end up reviewing an older buggy version of MOS
rather than the new "bug free" ( until the next version
comes out and then that too will be dismissed
as buggy ) version.
@Groanos
Give it a rest, your blue troll muscle will get
sore if you carry on flexing it so much.
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Id like to see the review and details of morphos software running amiga software . :-D
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bbrv wrote:
Hi Jim...your money order is good to go. See email just sent you!
Have fun!!!
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill :-)
Thanks alot! I very much look foward to giving it a spin!
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@Alkemyst etc...
Geez: Wayne just makes use of common sense.
If NOW something is NOT working/fully working, it's obvious it won't be available for the market before several months ! (or at least for AmigaOne, if it's not yet working on it, it won't be ported & fully tested in two weeks !)
MorphOS is working on pegasos since 2001. And it's still beta, although better & better. (I'm using it as my only system since 8 months ago)
It's not an attack to OS4 : wayne just said : I would love to review it, but won't be able to before some months.
Is that so difficult to understand ? Why attack him automatically ?
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by mahen on 2003/4/19 15:19:19
@Alkemyst etc...
Geez: Wayne just makes use of common sense.
If NOW something is NOT working/fully working, it's obvious it won't be available for the market before several months ! (or at least for AmigaOne, if it's not yet working on it, it won't be ported & fully tested in two weeks !)
Look where does it state when someone saying something is not working/ready/ yet that = a minium set time.
I fix TV,video,HIFI's.
Install car audio systems in my spare time.
when i get a phone call asking is it ready yet & i say know that does not tell when i will be finished does it.
sometime it takes a week from the phone call to finish & some times it takes me just half an hour after the phone call but i had no idear how long at the time.
MorphOS is working on pegasos since 2001. And it's still beta, although better & better. (I'm using it as my only system since 8 months ago)
It's not an attack to OS4 : wayne just said : I would love to review it, but won't be able to before some months.
When i use that agrument with z5 on another thread about moaning about the time it has taken hyperion to port AmigaOS to PPC.
He took it has an Attack.
Is that so difficult to understand ? Why attack him automatically ?[/quote]
I do unstarstand the meaning of not readying yet & that it does not mean that you can make up what ever time line you like to when it will be ready with out asking the ppl who are making it happen.
Eyetech are not the ppl making Aos4.
Hyperion said its ready when its ready.
hyperion would not let eyetech give imformation to when it mite be ready to wich hyperion would not of been willing to state them selfs.
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Hey Alkemyst, good luck to those people and companies...may the force be with them so to speak!
8-)
Back on subject...
We have sold out another production of the Pegasos I G3s with April2 -- all 400 (we will a have few more in two weeks). Thanks and best regards to all our supporters and customers. In July, we will offer a G4 upgrade for 200 Euros to these Pegasos I buyers. In September (perhaps before to the existing Pegasos I users), we will offer the Pegasos II with the G4 card. The existing G3 card will work on the Pegasos II (and we will continue to sell the G3 card with the Pegasos II as the "basic" system). Also, all Pegasos I users can exchange their Pegasos I with G3 card and 200 Euros for a new Pegasos II and G4 card. Try reading that a few times if you do not understand it...;-)
Finally, we intend on offering a software bundle to all Pegasos I owners that will be a VERY good package for a VERY small price. We want a solid group of happy users to be ready to welcome hundreds of new Pegasos II users to the Community. They will be joining us here, on ANN, amiga-news, morphos-news, the morphzone.org and phinixi.com starting in September and we want everyone to be ready to welcome them...;-)
We will begin to clarify this in a detailed manner on the Phoenix Reseller mailing list beginning next week.
Best regards (again :-D ) to all for a Happy Easter or a Happy whatever you celebrate!
Raquel and Bill :-)
Genesi
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by bbrv on 2003/4/19 15:57:44
Hey Alkemyst, good luck to those people and companies...may the force be with them so to speak!
I have no idear what your on about.
But what i do know is of you asking someone on another site not to compare Aone/Aos4 with Pegasos/MOS anymore on Aone/Aos4 thread but yet your happy for ppl to do it on PegasosMOS threads.
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@JoannaK
Nicely done ... :-D
Thanks for sharing your pictures with us. Please let us know when you have added the pictures showing Catweasel 3.
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redfox
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@redrumloa
If there is interest I will do a full review for A-Org.
Excellent idea ... :-D ... please let us know about your experiences with Pegasos.
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redfox
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@Alkemyst
May I ask why I am not capable of doing an unbiased review of MorphOS.
If you're refering to me being one of the moderators at www.morphzone.org, I can tell you I was asked to do it in volunteer basis, and I do not work for anyone but Isku (www.isku.fi) ;-)
Trust me, when I do the review it will include all the negative points aswell. There are problems that I want to be fixed, there are features missing I want to be added. MOS is not perfect, thats for sure.
That said, it has proven to be so reliable I am running it as my main computer these days.
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@Redfox
Done updating my Pegasos 1 page (http://www.belymt.com/~jkurki/pega/).. 3 pictures more of CW and Pega. I also add some commets to those bigger images so it's easier to see what's in there, and of course some funny spelling mistakes.. :-D
Screenshots/captures come sometime later ... Assuming I don't spend all the time playing games and surfing on net ;-)
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thanks JoannaK I found you're pictures interesting... keep up the good work :)...
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RE: Missing posts.
I apologize if some of your posts are missing. This morning, I realized that people (especially me) are no longer able to express their opinions on this site without the Amiga cheerleaders coming out of left field and pedantically picking your words and phrases apart until you honestly wish you had never bothered.
As such, I had intended to edit my original post but in my frustration, accidentally hit (and confirmed) the delete key, not remembering that it also removes the entire branch of comments based on the original.
Have a great day, or not. Your choice, and I damned sure am not going to sit here and allow you to complain that I directly influenced the type of day you're going to have since I didn't add the word "opinion".
:-(
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@Wayne
Happy Easter
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Well as I was kindly educated at ann.lu by HJ Frieden:
'*Opinions* start with "I think" or "In my opinion"'
... if you by any change start your sentence without either of above mentioned ways, you are spreading FUD.
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This morning, I realized that people (especially me) are no longer able to express their opinions on this site without the Genesi cheerleaders coming out of left field and pedantically picking your words and phrases apart until you honestly wish you had never bothered.
Nice to you that your breaking your own rules yet again with the name calling.
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Funny!
Deliberately quoting people out of context is always hilarious...
AmiMonkey :-D
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@JoannaK
LOL, good to see the famous "click" is still there!
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@Wayne
Stop acting like a spoiled brat! ;-)
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I think its strange that Wanye rarely moans about the Gensei cheerleaders coming out & doing exactly what he is complaining about to others on Amiga threads.
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Being new to the recent Amiga scene all I can say is that although I am aware to some extent of the schism between Amiga Inc. and Morphos, I have no opinion as to which is better etc.I can see that the only way that an unbiased review could take place is with a 3rd party, a technology magazine perhaps.
A review with both machines running linux would really be the only way until both platforms have completed thier respective OS's.
All that aside, the Amiga community as a whole is too small for this kind of fierce competition, and it would be really nice to see it find a common ground and unite to add to its customer base from other platforms, rather than feeding on itself.
My previous post was more eloquent, but I hope I have gotten my thoughts across adequetely.
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@JoannaK
Thanks for the update. Your pictures are very clear and nicely done. :-D
Are you able to read and write 880K Amiga floppy disk format with this set up?
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redfox
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Alkemyst wrote:
This morning, I realized that people (especially me) are no longer able to express their opinions on this site without the Genesi cheerleaders coming out of left field and pedantically picking your words and phrases apart until you honestly wish you had never bothered.
Nice to you that your breaking your own rules yet again with the name calling.
Come on now Alkemyst! I started this thread and it was going just fine until Amiga Inc's webmaster injected venom into it, and then others jumped on the bandwagon. Put yourself in Wayne's or even my shoes for a moment. There was no reason to poison this thread. There has been nothing anti Hyperion or Eyetech said from either of us. Wayne did not say "Alkemyst you are a cheerleader". But there certainly has been some cheerleading in this thread.
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Come on now Alkemyst! I started this thread and it was going just fine until Amiga Inc's webmaster injected venom into it, and then others jumped on the bandwagon. Put yourself in Wayne's or even my shoes for a moment. There was no reason to poison this thread. There has been nothing anti Hyperion or Eyetech said from either of us. Wayne did not say "Alkemyst you are a cheerleader". But there certainly has been some cheerleading in this thread.
Im sure i was the first one to complain about waynes post, but its been removed but the replys to it are still intact.
I would not be in waynes shoes in the first place.
If i thought that i had made a mistake i would fix it fast & not let it run on & on.
cheerleading! i did not see anyone saying things like amiga.inc are great or hyperion rules or anything like that.
It was just ppl trying to put strate about expected ETA of Aos4.
anyway in going out to enjoy me self.
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@redfox
Reading Amiga formatted 880k disks is ok, but I have no classic Amiga here so I can't test writing of those disks on my own.
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Nice to see your pictures, a shame that the Radeon 9000 can't be supplied anymore. I have one and my machine is complety silent. (9000 has a heatsink a fan)
If bbrv is on the list, could you supply owners of the Pegasos wo did not recieve that logo of the 'Pegasis horse' and the label Pegasos to us?
I would look nice on my coolermaster desktop!
I already asked Thiery
Bye,
Sjoerd de vries
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It's good to see/hear all the good news about
the Peggy/MOS...I'll definately fire - up a
Peg2 when available. Cheers to Wayne and
Red...I look forward to some solid, unbiased
reviews. ;)
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You have to give credit to Bill Buck and Co, he said products would come out and they have.
Hopefully this will continue.
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In my opinion. Genesi are providing a quality product, it is compatible with Amiga software, but it is not Amiga. Amiga Incorporated I hope will provide a quality product too. both the operating systems are nice, and unique. Since they both work with the 'Amiga Classic' software they both belong here. Even more so than AROS, since it does not yet have compatibility. Although a fully working version of AROS would be nice, and provides a good starting point for 'Amiga Classic' compatible work. Lets hope these two groups get together. I think that most people who like the Pegasos are prone to liking OS4 too, if it ships. I say if, because until I see it, there is no foolproof guarantee. I believe that Hyperon can pull it off though. Genesi, admittedly, already have. But lets give them both a fair chance.
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@wayne
without the Amiga cheerleaders coming out of left field
How about you go back and change you post to read the same for the other camp as well. Get off your high horse, look in the mirror and take the blame. The reply from hmetal wasnt called for but you posted obvious flame bait. The lack of moderation either way has made this site a farce recently.
@red
Back on topic, yes id love to see a review of the peg, and if you can give a good comprehensive run down of mos features that would be great. Its all about the software these days.
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redrumloa wrote:
Come on now Alkemyst! I started this thread and it was going just fine until Amiga Inc's webmaster injected venom into it, and then others jumped on the bandwagon.
Excuse me?? I didn't inject any venom at all and, I am not again going to express the reason I asked Wayne to quote the source of "months" being an ETA for AmigaOS4 as that is a dead horse.
But, I am not going to sit here while you accuse me of something that I didn't do.
The venom started when you guys overreacted to a simple correction that I made to Wayne's comments. I responded thereafter to defend myself because you guys flocked to protect Wayne from some mythical "attack."
Besides, if my asking for a concrete source qualifies as "venom," then there isn't a single poster on this site (not to mention ann.lu, the bunny, Amiga's own forums and others) who isn't guilty of that, even in the most innocent of circumstances. Everyone strives for factualism, don't you?
I invite you to look at the post of a TON of others here who, when the same is done by a member of the "red," the other side comes out in droves, and even whines to moderators to protect their interest and "correct the facts." I know, I've seen the private mails and let me tell you, what a shake-up I could generate if I didn't have morals.
The difference between me and the other guys is , I'm not about to do it behind closed doors. I'd rather be up front about it. If that makes me a bad guy, I'll accept it, as it is my opinion that honesty beats the closed door, in-email, back-stabbing, private crap that goes on between and regarding members of this "community."
P.S. I'm not just the Amiga "webmaster" just in case you didn't know. :-)
..and that's the last I'm going to say about this nonsense, unless you'd like to continue trashing a topic which IMO deserves more respect?
So, can we go back to benchmarking and comparison now?
Oh. By the way, I would love to see Wayne do an impartial comparison of both, once he has both. Make no mistakes about that.
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HMetal
can you tell us the status of for AOS4?... if so can you 'hint'?...
and once again concerning AOS4... I think (this is my opinon) that we as a whole need to listen solely to what the 'makers' of the product have to say...as Hyperion hasnt as of yet told anything but the truth...and hasnt broken any promises... so far they've not shown themselves to be amatures or idiots....and I think if we all just step back and take the word from the horses mouth and stop listening to third parties this might make the whole MOS/AOS4 thing a bit less hostile...
I know it's easy for people like me to slag AOS4/A1/etc when you look at them as bieng 'Amiga.inc' products(this is also all my opinon)... but if you take away the Amiga.inc factor AOS4 dosent seem to be in such a bad situation... I mean sure it might take a little longer to come out...but I think Hyperion seems reasonable and it's not that far of a stretch to see AOS4 running on Pegasos (legally) someday or at least running on A1's with very similer price/specs...... who knows... AOS4 might come out and be a halfway decent product...
P.S I'm not slamming MorphOS nor AmigaOS nor Hyperion nor any people individually... I'm not even slamming A.inc just saying that I think AOS4/AmigaOne need to be approached without thinking of them purely as Amiga.inc products... I'm just stating a pure opinon on the subject...and how I think we need to approach it... stop thinking Amiga.inc when you think AmigaOne... think Eyetech and Hyperion... and somehow (for me) the fuzz clears away a bit...
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Just got a call from my wife that a package from Paris was just delivered. :-)
-- gary_c
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Great!...keep us (all) posted...;-)
R&B :-)
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@Hmetal
I think what mips_proc said makes a lot of
sense. In my opinion, A-Inc has a pretty
shoddy reputation (especially when it comes
to release dates/etc.;-)), but fortunately OS4
is in the hands of a solid company
who will probably deliver a decent
enough product. Thinking about it from that
angle definately removes the bad/negative
assosiation from something that does not
really deserve it (Hyperion certainly doesn't).
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Exactly.
AOS4 and Hyperion must not be put in the same sentence as Amiga Inc.
Amiga Inc have brought on all this negative views/opinions by themselves and as far as i am concerned they are a dead company who own the trademark/ip etc.
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@IonDeluxe
All that aside, the Amiga community as a whole is too small for this kind of fierce competition, and it would be really nice to see it find a common ground and unite to add to its customer base from other platforms, rather than feeding on itself.
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You are right, the Amiga-market is too small for lots of competition. On the other hand, when has consumer suffered from such competition? Usually it just makes things better. Cheaper products, better service etc.
But as we stand, there is no competition as only the other party has delivereved the goods. In a few months(my estimate, don't kill ;) this will change as both companies have their solutions out by then, and can do some real competition.
The same goes for us users, we can start comparing the two computers and operation systems based on daily usage and overall feeling. Not by numbers ran on Linux.
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Final answer:
I have come to a conclusion since Saturday morning. I also came to a realization.
That realization is that there is a certain faction here practicing "Gorilla marketing" on this, and other Amiga web sites which aren't following what they consider to be "the company line". Every time anyone, on any site dares to utter an opinion which is contrary to "Amiga Inc is the one true savior", there are dozens of you (more than likely "three people with dozens of accounts") which come out of nowhere to attack, disect, and myopically intimidate the poster for his opinion. You've even turned on your own community with the same fury and vigor that you used to reserve for PC and Mac sites. This is considerably shameful. I will no longer allow that to happen here, or to me.
Just like anyone else, I have an opinion. I *will* use this site to state my opinions. You can CHOOSE to misconstrue them as "facts" or "fud" or whatever you *choose* to do, but they are opinions unless stated otherwise, and those of you who play this game of intimidation KNOW that. If you cannot handle the truth in the message, then that's not my problem.
Here are some facts.
1) AmigaOne is out
2) AmigaOne has zero to do with Amiga Inc. It is an Eyetech product.
3) Pegasos is out
4) Pegasos has everything to do with Genesi.
5) MorphOS is out for the Pegasos
6) MorphOS has everything to do with the Pegasos
7) AmigaOS is NOT out, nor is it available for the AmigaOne. (Otherwise Alan would have said that they could get me an evaluation board "in a few weeks" or somesuch rather than "won't get you one until AmigaOS is out for the AmigaOne".)
8) AmigaOS has zero to do with Amiga Inc. It is a Hyperion product.
None of these facts are debatable, so save your breath.
What I said earlier was that "AmigaOS for the AmigaOne will not be available for several months" (paraphrased, since I appear to have deleted it). I fully stand by my statement.
I did not give an exact date, but I HAVE heard that from several people involved. This is my OPINION, but it is based on several FACTS which are unavoidable;
1) Moving an OS between hardware platforms (CSPPC/AmigaOne which is completely different hardware) is a monumental task.
2) Hyperion does not have hundreds of Frieden-level developers.
3) As such, they will NOT be able to complete AmigaOS for the AmigaOne in the next several months.
Note: I did not give an exact date. I do not know an exact date. How many is "several"? In my book, more than two, and less than 12. I would LOVE in this instance to be proven wrong, but it is not going to happen.
All in all, I don't really care that you don't like my opinion. AmigaOS will not be available for the AmigaOne in anything more than a beta form, if at all, for several months. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I stand by my opinion.
I look FORWARD to reviewing the AmigaOne/AmigaOS combo, just as I do the MorphOS/Pegasos combo. Since AmigaOS and the AmigaOne have zero to do with Amiga Inc except for the licensing of the name, I strongly believe that when available, I can review both evenly and give both the good and bad on each platform.
If you don't believe that, that's fine by me, doesn't matter, but just because you don't like the FACTS here does not give you the right as a mob to beat up on the messenger.
If you want to know what the "farce" is here, it's the fact that the mobs on either side don't realize the harm they are doing to the Amiga community and platform as a whole. Each "side" believes that they are right and that their actions are in the best interest of everyone involved. Unfortunately all you're doing is pissing people off and scaring away the rest. That is regardless of whether you stand under the red, or the blue flag.
Also amongst facts, this community is now pitifully small, and the minority of very vocal pundits are now exceptionally bitter individuals. They feel that their way is the only way and anyone who says differently is "the enemy". It doesn't matter what side you're on. Anything -- even support -- in excess is a bad thing.
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by Wayne on 2003/4/21 14:38:36
Final answer:
I have come to a conclusion since Saturday morning. I also came to a realization.
That realization is that there is a certain faction here practicing "Gorilla marketing" on this, and other Amiga web sites which aren't following what they consider to be "the company line". Every time anyone, on any site dares to utter an opinion which is contrary to "Amiga Inc is the one true savior", there are dozens of you (more than likely "three people with dozens of accounts") which come out of nowhere to attack, disect, and myopically intimidate the poster for his opinion. You've even turned on your own community with the same fury and vigor that you used to reserve for PC and Mac sites. This is considerably shameful. I will no longer allow that to happen here, or to me.
Sorry but what you said could be also said about the other side.
8) AmigaOS has zero to do with Amiga Inc. It is a Hyperion product.
Amiga.inc own the IP.
Hyperion are making Aos4 under license from Amiga.inc.
With out amiga.inc in the first place hyperion would not be making Aos4.
2) AmigaOne has zero to do with Amiga Inc. It is an Eyetech product.
Eyetech is useing the name AmigaOne under license from Amiga.inc.
With out Amiga.inc eyetech could not use the name amigaone.
None of these facts are debatable, so save your breath.
No such thing as non debatable.
Everything can be debated
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Sorry but what you said could be also said about the other side.
Either you did not read what I said, you read between lines that weren't there, or you simply just refuse to "get it".
Amiga.inc own the IP.
Irrelevant.
Hyperion are making Aos4 under license from Amiga.inc.
Not quite. You make it sound like Amiga Inc initiated the license. They did not. Hyperion did.
With out amiga.inc in the first place hyperion would not be making Aos4.
Now you're confusing fact with your own opinion. Perhaps not Hyperion, but someone would have been writing it.
Eyetech is useing the name AmigaOne under license from Amiga.inc.
True.
With out Amiga.inc eyetech could not use the name amigaone.
False.
Question: since it is VERY apparent to everyone else, are you aware that everything you've said is simply based on the name, and Amiga Inc hasn't actually DONE ANY OF IT?
No such thing as non debatable.
Everything can be debated
Only by petulant trolls determined that theirs is the only opinion that matters in this situation. If you had read my message without already being predetermined to respond with an argument, you'd have understood the fact that I was trying to say that all this arguing is stupid. You however have proven yourself to be pre-disposed to responding, just to see how much you can drag out the same tired arguments.
Like I said, I don't care if you like my opinions or not, but the facts are facts. Amiga Inc has done NOTHING except take money to put a name on someone else's product. Hence my phrasing of "nothing to do with Amiga Inc".
While there's nothing wrong with that per se, it does not make either Hyperion's or Eyetech's product instantly superior to other alternatives (such as emulators, MorphOS, etc) in my book. If you don't like that, again, not my problem.
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@Wayne:
Quote:
"2) Hyperion does not have hundreds of Frieden-level developers."
Wrong.Since i am on the betatesters team and receive continuous feedback from OS4 Developers, i can say,for sure that this statement is plainly wrong.There are very professional developers involved on OS4 project,and also i can say openly that the whole team are working as the best one you can have for such a project.I think that they deserve our most intense applause.
[edit]Anyway,this whole comments are way Off Topic,so no more replies from me[/edit]
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You are claiming that they have hundreds of them, all up to the Frieden's level? Even Ben Hermans said they had only a few dozen coders.
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Hooligan_DCS wrote:
You are right, the Amiga-market is too small for lots of competition. On the other hand, when has consumer suffered from such competition? Usually it just makes things better. Cheaper products, better service etc.
But as we stand, there is no competition as only the other party has delivereved the goods. In a few months(my estimate, don't kill ;) this will change as both companies have their solutions out by then, and can do some real competition.
The same goes for us users, we can start comparing the two computers and operation systems based on daily usage and overall feeling. Not by numbers ran on Linux.
The competition I was mainly refering to is in the community...especially this AINC Morphos thing.People new to the community, and people who return to the community asfter a long time(such as myself) comeback to finding these flame wars, like this one.Another example is the amithlon.I tell you, alot of people who come back see this crap and just leave again, taking with them a very bad impression which spreads to other potentials who might have come back once they were made aware.I know I very nearly turned away until I realized it was the amiga I was about, not hotheads squabbling over who's solution is better.(Its pretty easy to put em in AMD\Intel Mac|windows or ATI\nVidia frames of referances and then can be thus ignored)
In this way "competition can kill"
With 2 platforms for the amiga, two operating systems it makes it less attractive for developers to come to Amiga as a whole as they have to port thier products between the two.Many wont come due to this single fact, which means less support for both.Without up-todate applications, and a steady release of applications the platform dies.Especially when both offerings are in competition with PC and Macs.Competition can kill here too.
On top of all this you have other competitors such as Aros, Amithlon XL and maybe even Ulminator(sp) amongst others, and thier grievances thrown into the mix.
This kind of competition can make the entire environment(with sh*t stirers from the PC mob)very unpleasant, and may even drive long time supporters of Amiga away.
This entire thread turned into a flame war with a few cheap shots taken by wayne.It is unclear or not if this was just in fun, which I would like to believe, or not, its gone too far.His most recent comments make it clear to me that he is a Morphos supporter, and steadfastly so with perhaps some ill feeling towards Ainc and thier offering.As such I certainly could not rely on him to give a fair assesment of both machines, all other considerations aside.
If I cant do this, how can a newcomer do this?
Now, before anyone jumps in, the Amigone is produced by eyetech in an agreement\partnership with AINC. This makes it an AINC offering no matter how much or how little involvement they have in the project.Same with OS4.
As an administrator of a website myself and a supporter of AMIGA (not morphos, not Amiga Inc or any other faction) I have found it very difficult to find a community to direct my visitors to, as I firmly believe if I did it would cause more harm than good due to the flamewars etc.
Anyway, I hope you can see what I am trying to say here.I also hope that many others might see the dangers to the future of AMIGA and start thinking about more benificial ways to support thier faction and the AMIGA community as a whole.
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Not quite. You make it sound like Amiga Inc initiated the license. They did not. Hyperion did.
No i did not & the point is not who came to who first.
The point still is no matter who came up with the plan that there would be no Aos4 with out amiga.inc say so weather amiga.inc intend to continue with amigaOS or not.
Now you're confusing fact with your own opinion. Perhaps not Hyperion, but someone would have been writing it.
It does not matter how many other firms that could of been making it instead of Hyperion.
with out Amiga.inc's say so NO one can make Aos4.
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Ami603 wrote:
@Wayne:
Quote:
"2) Hyperion does not have hundreds of Frieden-level developers."
Wrong.Since i am on the betatesters team and receive continuous feedback from OS4 Developers, i can say,for sure that this statement is plainly wrong.There are very professional developers involved on OS4 project,and also i can say openly that the whole team are working as the best one you can have for such a project.I think that they deserve our most intense applause.
[edit]Anyway,this whole comments are way Off Topic,so no more replies from me[/edit]
No it is right. According to Hyperion themselves they have 30-some-odd developers. Even with a stretch of the imagination to say every one of Hyperion's external developers were to the level of the Frieden Bros, it does not add up to hundreds.
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@Ami603
You maths are about as bad as AmigaIncs.. They claim they have 3000 DE developers.. :-D
Another possible solution would be to assume you makig an implication that Friendens are so *lousy* coders that all A1 betatesters are better coder than them. But I surely hope you didn't meant it that way... :-o
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It does not matter how many other firms that could of been making it instead of Hyperion.
I think you are missing the point, Wayne isn't arguing against that.
As I side note, am i the only person who remembers Bill Mc trying to offer the OS4 job to Coyote Flux?
Anyhow, Wayne's not insulting A1/OS4/Hyperion/Eyetech in his posts. So what's the problem? He is stating an opinion based on available information. I have more or less the same opinion. Unless you don't like the negative A-Inc vibes, but that is a given due to recent history.
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@Redrumloa:
Since this point Wayne has stated, i mean talking about skills,not numbers.Well, they really wasn`t hundreds,but they are working as if the team was bigger than 3 times the actual team.And they are doing very well.IMHO.
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And they are doing very well.IMHO.
Despite what others want to read into my comment, I wish them luck, but that's not what I was getting at.
My point was, and still is that AmigaOS 4.0 for the AmigaOne platform will not be available for several months. (see above for my definition of several).
So far, Alky and others want to pick apart every single word and every single syllable, but none of them have even debated the idea that I'm wrong...
Therein lies the problem with this community. "Shoot the messenger, regardless of the message unless it praises 'the name'".
This cannot continue.
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@Alkemyst
Now you're simply trying to argue semantics. /me feels that I have nothing left to say, since all you want to do is argue. Let me help out here by explaining, in psychological terms the character traits being shown here by repeated argument on your part;
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pe·dan·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (p-dntk)
adj.
Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pe·danti·cal·ly adv.
Synonyms: pedantic, academic, bookish, donnish, scholastic
These adjectives mean marked by a narrow, often tiresome focus on or display of learning and especially its trivial aspects: a pedantic writing style; an academic insistence on precision; a bookish vocabulary; donnish refinement of speech; scholastic and excessively subtle reasoning.
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Why keep mentioning Amiga Inc?
The only thing they have done is shown everyone how not to run a company.
All they had to do was correct their stupid mistakes and apologies but no they just continued to act unprofessional and now have some guy answering nice little questions to win Amiga users trust back.
The damage has been done and hopefully many other Amiga users will eventually stop going on about those amateurs as if they are heroes of the hour, start supporting the REAL people who are doing something useful.
To put it more clearly, just hold up your middle finger to Amiga Inc and support the people who are doing something (www.hyperion.de)
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by Wayne on 2003/4/21 16:32:16
@Alkemyst
Now you're simply trying to argue semantics. /me feels that I have nothing left to say, since all you want to do is argue. Let me help out here by explaining, in psychological terms the character traits being shown here by repeated argument on your part;
If anyone is trying to argue semantics it is you with your debatable facts list.
Hyperion are making Aos4 under license from Amiga.inc.
Not quite. You make it sound like Amiga Inc initiated the license. They did not. Hyperion did.
Thats you trying to argue semantics.
ME pedantic hardly
These adjectives mean marked by a narrow, often tiresome focus on or display of learning and especially its trivial aspects
That more like you than me with Hyperion are making Aos4 under license from Amiga.inc.
Not quite. You make it sound like Amiga Inc initiated the license. They did not. Hyperion did.
and other thing in your list.
a pedantic writing style; an academic insistence on precision; a bookish vocabulary; donnish refinement of speech; scholastic and excessively subtle reasoning.
Are you sure cos most ppl say my spelling grammer punchuation are from what you have siad.
And you dont see me moaning about others writing styles at all or thier spelling mistake.
And your no Psychologist thats for sure so the fact that you called me pedantic has no value at all cos any one could go through a dictionary to pick out words to discribe someone weather the discribed word was the right one picked in the first place.
The reason why im harder on you is cos of your poistion.
i just dont accept ppl abuseing there power.
Your in a position of authority on A.org so you have to be more carefull than the rest of us.
what i say has fareless reflection on Amiga.org than you have when you say something.
Im put in position of authority in most places i work with out my even choosing, simply cos im very good at what i do & the workers like me cos i dont nipick at other who are not as good as me. But im very hard on bosses above me when they try abuse their postision and i have never been sacked.
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@Alky
Again, nothing more to say here. You're now arguing with yourself for the mere reason of doing so. Have fun.
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Since we're now off-target with this thread, (my apologies), it is being locked.
Wayne Hunt
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by redrumloa on 2003/4/21 16:15:58
Quote:
It does not matter how many other firms that could of been making it instead of Hyperion.
I think you are missing the point, Wayne isn't arguing against that.
As I side note, am i the only person who remembers Bill Mc trying to offer the OS4 job to Coyote Flux?
Anyhow, Wayne's not insulting A1/OS4/Hyperion/Eyetech in his posts. So what's the problem? He is stating an opinion based on available information. I have more or less the same opinion. Unless you don't like the negative A-Inc vibes, but that is a given due to recent history.
Never said that i thought wayne was insulting.
The problem is SOME facts that are not facts.
I have no problem with negative A-Inc vibes, but that is a given due to recent history.
As long as they are stated with good reason, but there is every few exmaples of that as most of it is just plain flaming on amiga.inc cockup that we have all known about for a long time now.
The truth matter but it also matter on how you go about saying it.
The only thing i have been happy about to some exstent is getting Aos3.9 uptill now since Amiga.inc as been around & they had little to do with that.
I have not been happy about anything directly from amiga.inc yet. but i dont feel the need to go on about it everyday.