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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Tafka on April 14, 2003, 11:04:00 PM

Title: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 14, 2003, 11:04:00 PM
Hi Guys,

I am itching to get my hands on an AmigaOne/OS4 to start developing for it but as I can no longer wait I thought I would start now.  Assuming reaction hasn't changed much, the source should be similar.

The only problem is, I don't know what!  :-D

So, does anyone have any ideas for small to medium apps that they would like to see on OS4.  I'll have a go at most things.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Johan Samuelsson on April 14, 2003, 11:23:05 PM
A tracker like Renoise (Renoize?).

A vector drawing program.

A port of Vice (very good C64 emu).

A port Visual Boy Advance (GameBoyAdvance Emu).

A GUI for UCON64. ROM<>ANY Console.

A port of Mozilla ;)

well.. enuff... =)

 
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 14, 2003, 11:30:38 PM
Vector drawing program, that sounds interesting (as I work for a CAD company as a software engineer).

What sort of vector drawing program?  You mean like full CAD?
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: WelshBoy on April 14, 2003, 11:33:41 PM
Hey :)

A good app for OS4?
It'd have to be "APRIL" - the spoof Picture previewing software as posted on Amiga.org as an April fools joke - it stands for AmiPR ImageLayers - I fell for it competely (I even emailed Mason with ideas and suggestions for the next release..)

However it would be damn cool if somebody could do this - however I dont really think it would be an easy job, particularly when you are talking about hacking/programming into an OS...

If you want more info about the program that "doesn't exist"...goto :

http://www.masonicons.de/AmiPRIndex.html

Would probably be best if you tried making a working example on OS3.1/3.5/3.9 First though as you cant get your hands on OS4 !

Daz.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 14, 2003, 11:38:16 PM
Hehe, the effort some people go to for a joke!
 :-D  :-D
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Johan Samuelsson on April 14, 2003, 11:51:00 PM
As for the vector drawing program..
I meant like Illustrator for the Amiga.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 15, 2003, 11:33:55 AM
Ahh, okay.

I'll investigate it.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: JoNty on April 15, 2003, 12:24:56 PM
Video encoders, DVD decrypters etc.

There's many open source and commircial programs on other systems, but not on the Amiga.

It's not on.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 15, 2003, 04:13:08 PM
Okay, keep them coming...  Video stuff is one I've already started thinking of because that is what I use the PC for mostly at the moment and I'd really like to use the Amiga instead.

I've just thought of one that would be useful to me.  A proper transparent (non-samba) network layer for communicating with Windows across a LAN.  

So that the drives on the Amiga are available in network neighborhood (sic) and the PC is available as a device on the Amiga.

Hmmm, interesting one.  I'll have to have a think about that.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Elwood on April 15, 2003, 04:38:21 PM
There is A LOT to do in the cli commands area. Now it depends if you prefer a huge app like the one listed above or small programs like those....
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 15, 2003, 04:50:17 PM
Quote

Elwood wrote:
There is A LOT to do in the cli commands area. Now it depends if you prefer a huge app like the one listed above or small programs like those....


Okay, name some, I'll consider anything  :-D
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: jd997uk on April 15, 2003, 05:08:39 PM
Quote
Okay, keep them coming... Video stuff is one I've already started thinking of because that is what I use the PC for mostly at the moment and I'd really like to use the Amiga instead.

VirtualDub (http://www.virtualdub.org/) is one program that I'd love to see on OS4.
It's released under the GNU license, so if you've got any spare time..............................

-john

BTW, a TMPGenc clone would be quite handy as well.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Paul_Gadd on April 15, 2003, 05:12:21 PM
VirtualDub 1.3 (no version over) and TMPGEnc are great programs which Amiga NEEDS.

Also a News binaries grabber program what will do Yenc, and something for PAR files.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: filson on April 15, 2003, 05:16:17 PM
A good programmers editor with plugin capabilities for stuff like refactoring and real expressions. loads of GNU stuff out there. You could even take on Eclipse :-) /me thinks too big/

A sample editor like ACID or a ogg player.
Or perhaps a port of Mozilla?
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: filson on April 15, 2003, 05:18:15 PM
A WinRAR clone for all the sneaky compression formats.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: amigamad on April 15, 2003, 05:55:10 PM
Id like to see a download manager that allows for resume and a firewall . :-)
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Ami603 on April 15, 2003, 06:12:12 PM
@Filson:
What sneaky compression formats?
Xadmaster library does that nicely.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 15, 2003, 06:17:54 PM
Ahh, VirtualDub and TMpeg, where would I be without those.  TMpeg has got some really good MPG splicing functions (without re-encode).

Download Manager like DAP is good idea too.  

Good stuff guys, keep it coming.

TMpeg/DAP probably about right size I was thinking of.

Sample Editor is a nice one too.  I'm in danger of getting too many ideas here!
 :-D
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Methuselas on April 15, 2003, 06:20:13 PM
SH!T Man, do anything. If anything , you're just adding one to a viable gene pool of coders. I do like your idea on having the ability to see the Amiga and PC on a network.  Seriously, it's all about the applications. I can handle not having alot of apps to chose from for OS4.0, 'cos so many of the older ones should run better than before. With the push back of OS4.0's release date, this just gives more developers time to develop good software. Isn't that what it's all about??

Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: lempkee on April 15, 2003, 07:19:37 PM
i want to see ppc versions of ALL compressors around , like RAR,Zip,LZX,LHA etc... and most of all ....them all in 1 guI wouldnt have hurted.

and beyond that i would like to see MAME emuls (updated) , snes,genesis etc.... and ofcourse...most of all i want to see some tools for readinga and writing PDF .

cheers
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Valan on April 15, 2003, 07:50:14 PM
I would love an Amiga style vector animation package that saves .SWF. Flash and Live Motion are cack to use. By Amiga style I mean user friendly and intuitive.

These apps feel more like accountancy spreadsheet apps rather than apps for creating art.

For example make a change to a frame and it automatically becomes a keyframe. No more Adding a keyframe before you draw nonesense.

or

A 3d model preview, so LWO, 3ds, Obj, iges etc can be identified easily.

All the best
Valan
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Nick on April 15, 2003, 08:03:03 PM
I`ve been designing (on and off) a huge image manipulation and paint package for ages. Not medium to small though. I wish I could (be bothered) to program! :cry:

:-)
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: alx on April 15, 2003, 08:14:19 PM
A port of UAE would be great, but you'd probably need more info on the OS4 API's.  And it'd be great if someone ported OpenOffice, Mozilla or Bochs.  If you could port the first two, I'd be able to trash my PeeCee for everything except for games. :-D
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Kronos on April 15, 2003, 08:20:54 PM
Häääääääh ???

Whats so special about a port of UAE ?

You just take the AOS-68k,WOS, or MOS-version (MOS should be
that best start) and force it through gcc.

Thats it !

O.k. maybe you were thinking about a JIT-version, but be advised:
Better forget that ....
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: alx on April 15, 2003, 08:27:36 PM
Quote
Whats so special about a port of UAE ?


It'd be a disgrace if OS4 didn't have one :-)

I don't know how simple it would be to do a straight port, but what would be really great is basically the opposite of ^mithlon - throw out most stuff except for custom chip emulation, and then use it with the virtualised memory in OS4 for legacy compatibility.  But I'm guessing that there isn't any documentation about how to use the new memory features.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: that_punk_guy on April 15, 2003, 08:35:34 PM
How about a multi-track hard-disk recorder? people are becoming more an more interested in home recording (and it would be nice if I didn't have to buy a Korg D-16 *and* could rid myself of Windows all at once  :-D )


Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Kronos on April 15, 2003, 08:41:10 PM
@alx
Now that sound like a really stupid idea .....


How much SW is outthere that requires OCS/AGA AND the power
of a CPU faster than UAE could provide ? And how many of those
would actually run on such a setup ?

And do you have even the slightest idea how much work it would
be to adapt UAE this way ?

Gigantic waste of resources for virtually no benefit, probraly
even worse something slowing the OS down and making it less
stable .......
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: alx on April 15, 2003, 08:49:57 PM
Basically, from what I've heard, it would be possible to put in a background task (not hard-coded into the OS) that would read the "chip" memory and act on it.  Because the 68k emulation is not sandboxed, any older AGA programs would be able to utilise the new features of OS4.

But I'm not much of a programmer, and don't know how (if at all) it'd be done.  So no, I dont have "even the slightest idea how much work it would be to adapt UAE this way ".  If it would be really hard (and it sounds like it), then just forget it :-)
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Kronos on April 15, 2003, 08:56:09 PM
/me wonders how often he has to hear the word "sandboxed"
completly out of context .......

A 68k programm is an 68k programm and therefore it has now
idea on what kind (or if on any at all) of emulation it runs.

The only think that "not sandboexed" means is that both
protected and non-protected apps run on the same kernel in the
same mem-space nothing more. Also means that it is allways
possible for an unprotected app to damage the kernel.

Preventing that is the MAIN reason for using a sandox.


edit:

But to stop it here:
Better write replacements for the SW that won't run without
the chipset than trying to run it by force.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Blomberg on April 15, 2003, 09:47:38 PM
Quote

that_punk_guy wrote:
How about a multi-track hard-disk recorder?

Something like this (http://www.audio-evolution.com/)?  :-)
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Hammer on April 16, 2003, 02:15:21 AM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
/me wonders how often he has to hear the word "sandboxed"
completly out of context .......

A 68k programm is an 68k programm and therefore it has now
idea on what kind (or if on any at all) of emulation it runs.

The only think that "not sandboexed" means is that both
protected and non-protected apps run on the same kernel in the
same mem-space nothing more. Also means that it is allways
possible for an unprotected app to damage the kernel.

Preventing that is the MAIN reason for using a sandox.


IF Hyperion duplicated MS’s “Windows On Windows” method (NT edition) but for Amiga’s API (e.g.. Amiga on Amiga), this would be satisfactory in my view.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: poweramiga2002 on April 16, 2003, 04:50:11 AM
How about an emulation for A1 os4 like playstation 2 emulator or ps1 these would be cool to have running would turn a few heads as well
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: on April 16, 2003, 05:18:38 AM
Tafka, I could really use a music notation and MIDI program, one with excellent graphical support for modern notation.  Great playback, sound editing, and a tracker interface would be killer, too.  I dream of a day when I can take my composing back to my Miggy.

Not sure if that qualifies as small to medium, but I'd he happy to help out on such a project though I haven't programmed for the Amiga in years and am a bit rusty.

Otherwise, a decent yet simple-to-use window-and-toolbar-based text editor.

Kronos, why'd you have to show up and start pissing on everyone?  Some of us are here because we enjoy the platform.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Kronos on April 16, 2003, 06:27:20 AM
/me is pissing on whom ??????


Just because I suggest looking forward (and writing new SW) instead
of backwards (and writing an AA-emu) makes me pissing on someone ?


Or is it because I corrected some urban myths about the benefits of
a "non-sandboxed" emu/OS ????


Oh well I can live with that .....

Back to the topic:
@tafka
What you should do really depends on the amount of time you are
able to invest. If you got really lots of it you should go for the big
"killer-app" like an audio or GFX programm.

If your time is limited you should look on free SW for a starting
point. For example, the Amiga-port of XFig called AmiFig has been
dicontinued some times ago and is available for free. Maybe you could
get the sources from the author. Or look at the masses of X11/KDE/GTK-SW
and choose one of those.

If you only got very little time and want fast results, port little
cli-tools and similar from Linux, write commodity-style-SW or
drivers for "odd" HW.

Lots of tasks outthere that don't require to beat a dead horse (OCS/AGA).



Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: tonyw on April 16, 2003, 06:27:25 AM
"I've just thought of one that would be useful to me. A proper transparent (non-samba) network layer for communicating with Windows across a LAN.

So that the drives on the Amiga are available in network neighborhood (sic) and the PC is available as a device on the Amiga."

That's the best one of all. It would allow any Amiga owner (68k or PPC) to swap files with Windows or Linux boxen.

And the advantage is that you have some code to start with. All you have to do is tweak it to make it user-friendly (it's horrible at the moment).

tony
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Treke on April 16, 2003, 07:28:03 AM
KA4OS4 (killer app for OS4):
I guess on the start there should be a good dev env to help development, this should be the first killer App

re

Treke
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: JoNty on April 16, 2003, 09:23:35 AM
Forget VirtualDub, the Amiga needs a port or something like VirtualDubMod (http://www.virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net). Lots more functionality and format support.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: JoNty on April 16, 2003, 09:32:02 AM
Kronos

Not a fan of the idea of being able to play classic Amiga games on OS 4?

I personally can't wait to play Zool in a window.

Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Kronos on April 16, 2003, 12:07:41 PM
@JoNty

And now guess where Zool would run better :

a) UAE-setup with "match A500-speed" (or was it an AGA-game ?).

b) Under ExecSG (did it allow multitasing ?) on Petunia ( = >060)
with a hacked_in_place chipset-emu.

My bets are 100:1 on a  :-D

Said the guy who can't wait for support of the Carweazle_3
Joystick-ports in UAE so he can finally play Lotus_I/II,
R-Type,Turrican, Wings of Death .......  ;-)
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Stom on April 16, 2003, 12:47:29 PM
Quote

tonyw wrote:
"I've just thought of one that would be useful to me. A proper transparent (non-samba) network layer for communicating with Windows across a LAN.

So that the drives on the Amiga are available in network neighborhood (sic) and the PC is available as a device on the Amiga."

That's the best one of all. It would allow any Amiga owner (68k or PPC) to swap files with Windows or Linux boxen.

And the advantage is that you have some code to start with. All you have to do is tweak it to make it user-friendly (it's horrible at the moment).

tony



I aint 100% sure but I seem to recall that Tickly said that he has been tinkering with some software to do just that for some time now (at least I think it was tickly). Think I read that on ann.

Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Mason on April 16, 2003, 12:49:12 PM
Quote
Hehe, the effort some people go to for a joke!


It was just a lazzy sunday afternoon ;-)

BTW If you need any images or icons for your upcomming project please feel free to contact me.

Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: ksk on April 16, 2003, 12:55:12 PM
1) Paula sound chip emulator by using Altivec
2) Sound libraries by using Altivec (AHI for altivec)
3) Delfina emu for Altiv.... argh, enoug of this
4) IDE for GCC
5) AOS4 port of AACE    :-P  :-P  :-P
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Rodney on April 16, 2003, 02:12:58 PM
Quote

Tafka wrote:
Hi Guys,

I am itching to get my hands on an AmigaOne/OS4 to start developing for it but as I can no longer wait I thought I would start now.  Assuming reaction hasn't changed much, the source should be similar.

The only problem is, I don't know what!  :-D

So, does anyone have any ideas for small to medium apps that they would like to see on OS4.  I'll have a go at most things.


Maybe you could volinteer your effort to some of the open source projects already active in the amiga community, such as AWEB, or the GeekGadgets projects... There are many very usefuly project that are in need of constant help. And by the sounds of it, your not exactly a newbie a coding, so my bet is, you'd be of great help.

But if your hell bent on developing something by your self, maybe a port of Thunderbird (formaly pheonix [mozilla based browser]) and the thunderbird sister project email client based on mozilla also? Deffiniatly some key apps. But, i guess there could be more essential ones, since there are some web browsers and email clients.

Maybe developing audit/video codecs for audit/video players we already have?

Or GUIs for Command Line apps that dont have them, such as cvs (at least i dont think it has one)... WinCVS has a great interface, maybe something like that?
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Tafka on April 16, 2003, 02:30:18 PM
Some great ideas guys and thanks Mason for your offer of help.

Is OS4 going to have input and output datatypes?  If it does that may influence my decision slightly.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: jd997uk on April 16, 2003, 02:43:44 PM
Quote
Is OS4 going to have input and output datatypes?

The datatypes supplied with OS4 have been written by Oliver Roberts (WarpDatatypes author). Maybe contact him directly for information here (http://www.nanunanu.org/~oliver/)
If your referring to codecs in general (for A/V stuff), you might want to contact Ben Hermans, who should be able to give you more details and/or the authors details.

-john
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: JoNty on April 17, 2003, 03:00:48 PM
Kronos

=
And now guess where Zool would run better :

a) UAE-setup with "match A500-speed" (or was it an AGA-game ?).

b) Under ExecSG (did it allow multitasing ?) on Petunia ( = >060)
with a hacked_in_place chipset-emu.

My bets are 100:1 on a  
=

Likewise, in a window.
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: Kronos on April 17, 2003, 03:17:53 PM
Quote

JoNty wrote:

Likewise, in a window.


Why o why in a window ??
A 640x512 window would just fit 1/4 of my 18"LCD ......
Way to small  :-(

A seperate screen at say 800x600 (to allow overscan and so)
sounds perfect for me  :-D
Title: Re: App for OS4
Post by: JoNty on April 17, 2003, 06:56:24 PM
=
And now guess where Zool would run better :

a) UAE-setup with "match A500-speed" (or was it an AGA-game ?).

b) Under ExecSG (did it allow multitasing ?) on Petunia ( = >060)
with a hacked_in_place chipset-emu.

My bets are 100:1 on a  
=

...gave me the impression that you thought I ment by "running Zool in a window" ment via ExecSG implamented Petunia emulation.

Sure, full screen'll be the best, but in a window would be good for a screen grab. Kinda like old skool and nu skool unite.