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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: amiga1084 on February 07, 2006, 12:42:43 PM
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Hello All,
I currently use CybervisionPPC card with my CyberstormPPC accelerator in my A4000T.But I was given an A4000 desktop machine which has Picasso 4 card in it.I am woundering whats a bettter card as I have heard many good things about the Picasso 4.I don't need the Scan Doubler/Flicker Fixer as I already have an external one.Also I don't really want
to waste Zorro slot but if it's better card then I would do it.I would like to hear your opinions on this issue.
Thanks in advance Merv
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I'd like to hear that too. Seeing as you have both systems already, can you give us your impressions so far?
For SD/FF, I've heard that the PIV's is about as good as they come. Can you see any difference between it and your external one, and which external SD/FF are you using?
Are you planning on selling one of your 4000s?
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Well the CyberVisionPPC is faster and has more memory. And when you don't need the SD/FF then I'd stick with the Cybervision.
The reason the PicassoIV is a very good card is in my opinion because it's a really elegant design. The SD/FF works without any hassle and you can use every screenmode on one monitor. For me having easy access to the native Amiga screens is very important.
So the choice is faster and more graphics memory --> CyberVision. All in one solution with SD/FF --> PicassoIV.
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How do they compare for software support? I've never owned a graphics card on an Amiga, but have heard that some programs only like some cards for full feature support. Are there any major differences between the two cards in this regard?
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Install both togheter and compare :-)
CGX4 supports both cards without any problems (CVPPC and CV64 here)
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The PicassoIV's SD/FF is far, far better
then any external SD/FF. Period.
:-)
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In the perfect world I'd get a PPC + Picasso-IV.
There is a software driver on Aminet to emulate Warp3D's usage of the Permedia2/Voodoo3 3D routines. How many programs use the 3D features I don't know, maybe 3?
:-D
With a PIV you'd be keeping your native 15Khz modes on one monitor with no switcher and at a higher quality to a scandoubler/FF - it uses the video slot. 15Khz is what Amiga is about and the PIV has optional TV input, output and sound card.
In my opinion Mediator/G-Rex are the spawn of beelzebub.
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Hyperspeed wrote:
...In my opinion Mediator/G-Rex are the spawn of beelzebub.
A computer enthusiast AND a luddite? ;-)
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I own a Picasso4 and I think that Permedia2 will be more interesting for you if you don't watch demos and/or play games.
Firstly, CyberVisionPPC has native support in both OS4 and MorphOS (you can run MOS1.4.5 NOW).
Secondly, it has more memory, it's faster, it allows you to use bigger resolutions without flicker, it has much more bandwitch (30MB/s or so against Picasso4 12MB/s or so), it allows you to watch early boot menu trough the gfx card, so although you won't be able to watch AGA demos at least you could live without a 15Khz monitor. It also allows you to watch some early PowerPC demos written for Permedia2. BTW, it also has 3D support (although it's weak in 3d terms it will allow you to play at 640x480 with 3d acceleration). It's also compatible with FusionPPC.
On the other hand if you watch demos or run many AGA apps Picasso4 will be more interesting.
On my A4000T I use a Picasso4 just as flicker fixer (it's excellent for that job) and a Prometheus+Voodoo3 as main gfx card.
A Permedia2 is a very nice card, I wouldn't get rid of it. Running MorphOS may be very useful.
BTW If you want to get rid of the Permedia2 send me a PM with the price, I may be interested in buying it :-)
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In my opinion Mediator/G-Rex are the spawn of beelzebub.
Both cards are very nice IMHO... I like most of classic miggy hardware... LOL
As an owner of a mediator4000 I'm quite happy with it, it works quite well, and a friend of mine has a grex4000, it's also a nice card.
On the other hand, if you want to see AGA stuff and you just run 680x0 stuff Picasso4 is the king thanks to its built in flickerfixer :-D
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If we look at things in terms of what's King, and put this in a medievil perspective:
CyberVisionPPC = King
BlizzardVisionPPC = Queen
Picasso-IV = A noble knight
OCS/ECS/AGA = loyal servants
Mediator/Voodoo = A wicked witch
AteoBus Pixel64 = A dirty peasant
Graffiti = A plague sufferer
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I remember that there was a time that I could have had money for a Piccaso IV, if I hadn't have had some situations, and bought my Cybervision 64. Errgh, for some reason I installed my OS 3.9 and now when I install the Cybervision software, it just doesn't want to work. I guess it's me.
I'm still debating on how I'm going to arrange my cards and stuff.. Yeah, I still have my Prometheus that I think I'm going to use in my soon to be tower system (unless I can find a way to be able to use it my desktop.
Pluto: Amiga 4000D - Currently has a Cybervision 64 not sure if I'm going to change her card or not. I was going to put the Prometheus in her, but that's not going to fit in her case.
Cecilia: Amiga 4000D - I think I'm going to have this one become a Toaster/Flyer system. She is going to be tight with her friend.
Amanda: Amiga 2000HD - I'm definately going to have a toaster in this one. She has the most space out of all of them to date. I'm debating if I should put my PAR in here or not.
Bianca Neve?: Currently Amiga 4000D motherboard/w riser - I'm still deciding if I should build this one at the particuliar point in time. If I do, it's going in a tower no questions asked (I have a really big tower in mind.)I'm used to hardware hacking, and I know that I will be able to build a case for her that is sweet. I remember I built a case for one of my Apple IIgs. With all that space that gets me to thinking, should I use the Promentheus in here or should I get something like a Mediator or something.
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I was very happy to use them both until I got Voodoo3; now I'm happy with Voodoo3 and PIV - they work nice together with a decent monitor + Eyetech switcher.
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What I want to know is what would be the best, most ultimate setup for a towered system, as regards to the gfx.
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If I had the cash I'd get an original Commodore A4000T, Cyberstorm PPC, Picasso-IV with all the expansions, Videotoaster 4000 (what's the flyer for?) and a plasma display of some sort!
:-)
EDIT: As for giving your machines a name, I've just christened my A1200 desktop 'Quasimodo' because the 1260 has warped the trapdoor cover and it's had 12 years of wear & tear. A few of the letters on the keyboard are now invisible and I have to rely on The Force to guide me.
:-D
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Hyperspeed wrote:
If I had the cash I'd get an original Commodore A4000T, Cyberstorm PPC, Picasso-IV with all the expansions, Videotoaster 4000 (what's the flyer for?) and a plasma display of some sort!
:-D
Agreed, a PIV and a CybervisionPPC in the same A4000 would be nice. Mine has a PIV and Prometheus pci w/ Voodoo3 pci card using an adaptor I got off redrumloa.
The Newtek Flyer is a non-linear direct to disk video audio editing board that fits in a ZII Amiga slot. It has three scsi 2 controllers using a custom file and video format (VTASC) to record direct to disk video (2 controllers) and direct to disk audio (1 scsi controller). You can use up to 21 scsi drives on it, iirc, at rates ~6MB/s, so you usually see a scsi tower next to a Toaster/Flyer-equipped A4000D/A4000T. The Flyer connects via ribbon cable to the Video Toaster4000 and allows direct recording and manipulation of video from the Toaster without using tapes or external recording devices. The only so-called 'problem' with the Flyer is that video output is composite, rather than split rgb but that much balleyhooed fault is due more prejudice in the video community due to the poor composite quality of VHS. The Flyer's composite output is actually much better. Anyway, for the money, it still can do an awful lot of stuff and was way ahead of it's time when it came out. Worth fooling around with if you can find a VT4000/Flyer setup.
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Ahhh, so that's what I've seen here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8760237937
Seems daft having such a large tower and then having to get a seperate SCSI tower. Better if Commodore had cut those 2x useless vertical drive bays out and given 3 or 4 SCSI caddies instead.
Composite is pretty crappy for broadcast isn't it? No wonder a lot of American news/weather shows look grainy and washed out.
:-D
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Hyperspeed. Whether they have those two drive bays or not, I would still get that tower.
I mean that tower setup is in so much better shape then this one
Right here
Don't you think. I think so. I mean I would still get them if I had the money to , just because I would like a setup like that.
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Some Amigas are just skank.
Yeah, I'd prefer the classic Commodore A4000T but what do you put in those two vertical bays. The machine is wide enough to have accomodated two internal 3.5" drives or two 5.25" drives horizontally.
And you can't mount a CD drive upwards unless you have a slot loader!
I don't know how useful a Toaster/Flyer would be in Europe since it's NTSC only but if there were utilities to convert the end result to MPG you could burn to a VCD/DVD I suppose.
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The main reason for having a separate tower for the scsi drives is heat and power. Some of these Flyer setups have several large capacity scsi drives for each of the three controllers; that's a lot of juice and heat generated. You want to keep all that away from your rather delicate pcb's in the computer tower, if you can.
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Yeah that's what I was thinking. I know exactly how dangerous SCSI drives can be and I know how much those juice those things suck up when they start up. I'm pretty sure that the engineers of Amiga didn't envision the day that video cards would have to have their own power substation to get started, so I'm sure the Amiga motherboard isn't invincible.
Besides starving the motherboard and cards of power from the already strained power supply, I would think all the drives, the cables to connect them all, the brackets to hold them in place, and the fans to cool all that would make for a very crowded house in a 4000T. Hey, you could get all fancy by having all your stuff in hot swap trays. :idea:
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If you have a look here (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1243) I have a photo of my home setup. If you look at the top right side you will see that I have an A4000D that I have the Video Toaster 4000 and Flyer system installed with CyberstormPPC. I have all my TBC's and Flyer drives installed in the Tower case just beside the A4000 I have 2 Cheetah 36gig and 4 9gig drives on the two SCSI video devices and one Barracudah 4.5gig drive for audio. I had to install 3 fans in the desktop and there are 6 fans in the Tower to keep things nice and cool.
The composit output of the Flyer is actualy very good at 480 lines D2 quality. You can get an add on card that will give you an S-video out that boost it to 525 lines. (remeber that DVD's are only 480 lines) so as long as your recording device is digital your getting a great poduct like me I record straight to my PC and make DVDs out of it.
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What commercials/broadcasts/shows/movies used the Videotoaster? All that springs to mind is Babylon 5, Seaquest DSV and the Robocop TV series.
I heard somewhere Jurassic Park/T2 used it... or was this more Lightwave? I don't get how Lightwave utilises it...
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Here's a box for Toaster drives:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8762046071
Would make a nice SCSI tower for A1200 owners I suppose...
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You can use Picasso 4 with MorphOS 1.4.5 aswell.
http://v4.cybergraphx.de/
CGX4 4.3 rc6 Update
This update will allow CyberGraphX4 owners to use CVision3D/CVision64/PicassoIV
drivers with MorphOS on dual boot setups.
Above cards have been successfully tested with PowerUp MorphOS1.4.5 and A4000T/CSPPC,
other drivers might work as well.
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Whats better a Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo or a Nissan Senta? :P
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@TjLaZer
A Ferrari Enzo :-P
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Can I use Picasso 4 SD/FF to display OCS modes (15,6Khz) right from boot? I mean, is SD/FF module independent of RTG's driver so it feed from Denise directly?
I have OCS A2000 (KS 1.3, OS 1.3).
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I reckon so, but you need to either break off the ff/sd portion of the PIV to mount in the A2000's video slot or get some kind of adaptor board to put a video slot in-line with a ZII slot. You're better off with a C= A2320 or Microway FF/SD in the A2000 video slot.
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Thnx for reply.
This is what I have found about P4 SD/FF part of Picasso IV:
Quote from www.amiga-hardware.com
"If the Picasso IV is intended for use in an A2000, the flicker fixer can actually be "snapped" from the card and joined to it by a ribbon cable. This is because the A2000 does not have an inline video slot, like other models".
Perhaps this could actually work just as you said...
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Yes you can. I've had it working on my A500T + Denise adaptor, which mimics how it works on A2000. For some reason the FliFi seems to work better with P96 than CGX, which may make the screen updates on Flifi screens to "stick".
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Err hold on, am I hearing this correctly - a Picasso-IV in an A500!?
:-D
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Yes the Flicker Fixer works also without P96. It can display the early startup menu also.
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Hyperspeed wrote:
Err hold on, am I hearing this correctly - a Picasso-IV in an A500!?
:-D
Yes, with the Micronik Towercase and Zorro board for A500 :rtfm: