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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Gavilan on February 06, 2006, 08:38:06 PM

Title: SFS problems
Post by: Gavilan on February 06, 2006, 08:38:06 PM
Hi people: im having big troubles installing SFS to my Amiga.

This is the situation: i have an 20 GB HDD ready to be used on my Amiga.
My Amiga 1200 with Blizzard 1230 already has a 450 MB very old crappy disk, that is saying goodbye forever. I wanted to transfer all info and data, but into a SFS enviroment

What i did was,copy ALL my 450 MB into 20 GB, formatted following SFS installation guide.
I made 3 partitions. First partition 1 about 1.5 gig. Second partition is about 2.5 gig. And the third partition, when i reboot system is....gone!!!
Instead of getting a panic attack, i proceed and installed 3.9 (of course i have roms 3.1 on my machine).
After installation , 2 things happened:
1) i no longer have access to CD-rom. what could it be??
2) MY 3 partition is actually SEEN on the WB screen, but i get a message saying: HD3 is UNRECOGNIZABLE. If i try to format it, after 1% i get a "scsi.device bla bla bla ERROR". So i cant use it!!

I tought that using together 3.9 & SFS i would be able to get full use of a 20 GB hard disk

What am i doing wrong?
Cheers!

Sebastian
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: AmigaMance on February 06, 2006, 09:11:03 PM
Quote
2) MY 3 partition is actually SEEN on the WB screen, but i get a message saying: HD3 is UNRECOGNIZABLE. If i try to format it, after 1% i get a "scsi.device bla bla bla ERROR". So i cant use it!!
Try to quick format it. I assume that you are using a newer version of the scsi.device, right? If you don't you will only be able to use the first 4GB of your HD, and from what you describe the problems occurs after the 4GB limit.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: amigagr on February 06, 2006, 10:10:48 PM
1) i no longer have access to CD-rom. what could it be??

probably the instalation of os3,9 keep the old cd driver for mounting a cdrom but because of scsi.device conflict it can't run properly. do you have any extra scsi or ide hardwear on the amiga? if not in the startup-sequence the setpatch must be configured like this:     C:SetPatch Quiet
if there is a cd driver in Devs directory check if it is configured to use scsi.device unit=1 and CacheCDFS from L: directory.


2) MY 3 partition is actually SEEN on the WB screen, but i get a message saying: HD3 is UNRECOGNIZABLE. If i try to format it, after 1% i get a "scsi.device bla bla bla ERROR". So i cant use it!!

I tought that using together 3.9 & SFS i would be able to get full use of a 20 GB hard disk



you can have full access to all these even with os3,1 with the use of nsdpatch and a patched version of FFS. anyway the combination os3,9 sfs works fine on both my amigas, i install it recently and i don't have ffs anymore on the rdb of my disks. i format the partitions in full mode with the os format, in 1200 ide and in 3000 scsi hard disks and there wasn't any problem. the defrag tool of sfs works fine too. maybe the problem is from scsi device, if so the solution is the same to both of your problems.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Hyperspeed on February 06, 2006, 11:29:32 PM
This tool might be handy:

ftp://de.aminet.net/pub/aminet/disk/misc/check4gb.lha

Just to be sure, better than wiping the start off your disk!
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Gavilan on February 07, 2006, 01:22:34 AM
Of course i tried to do a quick format...but unfortunately..same result....

About the new scsi.device...where can i get it? i couldnt find it on Aminet...but i supposed that OS 3.9 and/or SFS had a newer scsi.device ....

Any more clues??

Thanks in advance

Sebastian
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Gavilan on February 07, 2006, 01:27:39 AM
amije: i have a scsi module attached to my Blizzard 1230....but my CD rom SCSI is unsusable as well...

Regarding scsi.device.... i had the idea that using together SFS + OS3.9 would allow me to us larger drives without caring size...so thats why i wanted to use a "brand new" 20 GB in my Amiga....

So, i simple dont understand what i did wrong...
I copied ALL my 450MB hard drvie into the new 20GB drive. The 450 HD had 3.1 installed and working properly...

After i installed SFS and 3.9, i can see on the WB screen the third partition , but it reads what i said, i cant format it, either in quick or full format, without getting a "SCSI.ERROR" with a lot of numbers and commands i just dont understand...

So basically, shall i need to install a new scsi.device?
where could i get it?
where should i install it?

Thanks in advance & excuse me for all my mess here!!!I wanted to impress my girl, showing her my "new A1200 with OS 3.9"...but all i got was "babe, its late, lets go to bed..."


OHHHHHH: forgot to tell!! I have one of those Eyetech 4 buffered ide interface...but i think (not sure) that came with no software, so i didnt install any software on it...



Cheers

Sebastian
 :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Hyperspeed on February 07, 2006, 02:32:29 AM
One look at your broken A1200 with OS3.9 and all she could think of was luuurve!

:-D
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: AmigaMance on February 07, 2006, 10:56:37 AM
Quote
So basically, shall i need to install a new scsi.device?
where could i get it?
where should i install it?
I don't have expirience on these things but since nobody answered it, i'll give it a try.
 From what i know the updated scsi.device is part of the OS3.9 as a resident module. So, you probably use it already if you haven't set a "noromupdate" or "skipromupdates scsi.device" argument in the setpatch command. Write in a shell window "setpatch PI" to check this.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Framiga on February 07, 2006, 11:24:15 AM
Hi Gav

take a look at this SFS thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19811) or with the Search function here, every thread "SFS+Thomas" related :-)

Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: rockape on February 07, 2006, 11:57:51 AM
Hi,

Quote

"1) i no longer have access to CD-rom. what could it be??"

Ensure you have the ToolType in your CD DosDriver set correctly

eg: "1230scsi.device"  (CASE sensitive !!!)

eg: "Unit = 4 /* exec device unit */"  is the number set on the back of my CD ROM Drive. Yours might be different.

My settings

/***************************************************************/
/*  CacheCDFS mountlist entry © 2000 Amiga Inc.                */
/***************************************************************/
       FileSystem     = L:CacheCDFS /* The name of the game */
       Device         = "squirrelscsi.device" /* Name of exec device driver */
       Unit           = 3 /* exec device unit */
       Flags          = 0 /* OpenDevice flags */
       BlocksPerTrack = 351000 /* Unused */
       BlockSize      = 2048 /* True, but unused */
       Mask           = 0x7ffffffe /* Memory mask for direct read */
       MaxTransfer    = 0x1000000 /* Maximum amount of bytes for direct read */
       Reserved       = 0 /* Unused */
       Interleave     = 0 /* Unused */
       LowCyl         = 0 /* Unused */
       HighCyl        = 0 /* Unused */
       Surfaces       = 1 /* Unused */
       Buffers        = 500 /* Number of cache lines */
       BufMemType     = 5 /* MEMF_PUBLIC */
       BootPri        = 2 /* Boot priority for MountCD */
       GlobVec        = -1 /* Do not change! */
       Mount          = 1 /* Mount it immediately */
       Priority       = 10 /* Priority of FileSystem task */
       DosType        = 0x43443031 /* Currently unused */
       StackSize      = 3000 /* Minimum stack required is 3000! */
       Control        = "MD=0 LC=1 DC=8 L LV AL LFC=1 S NC AUDIO=Utilities/PlayCD"
   /* The Control field is for special adjustments */
   /* L/S convert all file/volume names to lowercase */
   /* LV/S convert volume names to lowercase */
   /* AL/S Auto-Lower converts only non-Amiga CDs */
   /* LFC/N start converting at this character */
   /* LC/N/A number of blocks per cache line */
   /* DC/N/A number of cache lines for the data cache */
   /* MD/N/A number of blocks, when starting direct read, not using */
   /* the cache. 0 will be a reasonable default (LC*DC+1) */
   /* S/S Do SCSI direct commands, no Trackdisk like commands! */
   /* NC/S Do NOT use TD_ADDCHANGEINT, poll for DiskChange! */
   /* M/S Issue a TD_MOTOR (OFF) command after read */


Regards, Michael

aka rockape
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: vk3heg on February 07, 2006, 12:01:44 PM
Quote

Framiga wrote:
Hi Gav

take a look at this SFS thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19811) or with the Search function here, every thread "SFS+Thomas" related :-)



Great information in that thread (have book marked it)..

I have a question about large drives. I have a GVP Impact Series II A500-HD+ with 3.12s/3.2a roms (acording to the little sticker) and would like to get a 8gig segate drive going with it. I have tryed to use this drive, but the gvp fastprep software thinks that the drive is 244mb.

Will using the SFS file system get past this or do I need to find someone with newer roms first? (anyone have newer version roms?)

Btw: it's been many years since I last used my ami... I've only just come back in the past few weeks, after upgrading the rom/os to 3.1

Edit: That should be a 4gig hd
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Framiga on February 07, 2006, 12:46:56 PM
I have no experience about that GVP controller but you can find some useful links, at HERE (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?product=Impact+Series+II+A500&company=) (Ralph Babel link)  


Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Thomas on February 07, 2006, 01:23:08 PM
Quote
I have tryed to use this drive, but the gvp fastprep software thinks that the drive is 244mb.


This is probably a fault of the FastPrep software not being able to handle more than 4GB.

Quote
Will using the SFS file system get past this or do I need to find someone with newer roms first? (anyone have newer version roms?)


No, it won't. SFS only jumps in after the drive has been partitioned.

I don't know if the FastPrep software does anything special to the drive. You should try if you could use on of the standard prep programs like HDToolBox (version 3.5 or 3.9 preferred) or HDInstTool.

Bye,
Thomas
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Framiga on February 07, 2006, 02:02:48 PM
btw . . SFS 1.252 68K is available at

SFS HomePage (http://home.wtal.de/js)

1.252 (7.1.2006)
- m68k: Fixed an alignment bug in the 64 bit packet support.
- Added some checks in ACTION_SEEK, ACTION_CHANGE_FILE_POSITION64,
  ACTION_SET_FILE_SIZE, ACTION_CHANGE_FILE_SIZE64, ACTIION_READ and
  ACTION_WRITE to make sure you can't create/access files > 4 GB - 2
  bytes.

EDIT- has anyone already installed it?
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: amigagr on February 07, 2006, 02:22:01 PM
i've been confused with all this :)
you didn't say about the scsi module and the extra ide interface from the start...
if you don't use the ide buffer inderface remove it or install the softwear, i think that it works with idefix. the cdrom is connected to the ide or scsi module? if it is on scsi you have to set the cd driver to 1230scsi.device. there is an upgrade to the 1230 scsi from phase5 too, version 8,something. i have use my scsi module only once to ''save'' the scsi hard disk of my a3000 and i had the problem that the amiga was booting only from the blizz scsi and couldn't even ''see'' the internal ide!!! and the problem was solved after a lot lot warm reboots so who knows what conflicts happening in the background... at your place i would remove all the extra hardwear, install the os 3.9 and putting it back in place one by one. finaly the scsi.device is ''in'' the file AmigaOSRomUpdate in directory Devs. you must install and the 2 boingbags to have all the latest updates of these files.

don't mess with tools like fastprep use only hdtoolbox, format from os3.9 and of course the tools of sfs if you need them.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: amigagr on February 07, 2006, 02:26:12 PM
Quote

Framiga wrote:
has anyone already installed it?



lo faccio io stanotte doppo il lavoro :)
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Hyperspeed on February 07, 2006, 02:26:38 PM
How many 3rd party filesystems are there and is it SFS that's come out on top? What are the benefits and drawbacks?
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: amigagr on February 07, 2006, 02:39:08 PM
for now i think that sfs is the only available for free and there is pfs v3 that cost some money (i'm at work now and i don't have the link available). in the past there was and the amifilesafe afs. the project of afs has been abandoned some time and became pfs. all these promise something that miss from ffs: no more bitmap errors and long times of disk validation after a power down or similar dameges. i didn't test sfs that way (just in case...) but i see much better behavor from it than a thousand broblems that i have with ffs in the past.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Framiga on February 07, 2006, 02:56:19 PM
Quote
lo faccio io stanotte doppo il lavoro :)


ok amije.

If your system will not explode, i'll update me too :-D

jokeing! . . SFS is actually, the best choise ATM (along PFS3 if you already have it)

Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Hyperspeed on February 07, 2006, 03:39:43 PM
But isn't a valid bitmap there for a reason?

One program I'm going to have to investigate is BRIC, a CRC checker that comes with MakeCD. My SCSI connection needs sorting out and I get a lot of random Checksum Error messages that suggest a poor contact (they vanish when you click retry!).

Can anyone explain SFS and FFS in terms of block layout or geometry?

A screenshot of the SFS defrag & salvage tools would be nice...
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: motorollin on February 07, 2006, 03:54:27 PM
@Gavilan
You said you copied the data from the 450MB hard drive to the 20GB one, THEN tried to install OS3.9. That suggests to me that you created the partitions on the disk under 3.1? If so then I think you need to boot with the Emergency Disk, reinstall a new RDB on the disk, install SFS, create the partitions, install OS3.9, THEN copy your data.

--
moto
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: amigagr on February 07, 2006, 05:15:55 PM
can't be said simpler, i agree
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Gavilan on February 07, 2006, 06:50:46 PM
NOW i get it!!!!! I need to format the 20 GB under OS 3.9!!!!

Thanks!!!
Will try it tonight!
Tomorrow i let you know!!

Thanks to all with your great help!!

Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Gavilan on February 07, 2006, 06:55:24 PM
@amije: yeah, im sorry for forgetting telling that vital info...
My 4 way bufered inteface was bought second hand on ebay, so i came with NO idefix software at all
My cd rom is installed using blizzard scsi board (so 1230.device is correct)
But, after i installed 3.9, i no longer have access to the cd-rom drive, so i cant install latest boing bags and all that stuff...

One doubt at this point: if i just install SFS on the 20 GB drive (still under 3.1), and THEN i install 3.9 OS on the 20 GB, i still wont be able to format the third (the partition beyond 4 GB limit), right??
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: amigagr on February 07, 2006, 07:12:37 PM
oh boy i'm gonna shoot my self..., ok the thing goes like this: you have to install the latest sfs 1.252 in the 20gb disk BUT if you do it you must format ALL the partitions one by one. BEFORE you do anything do this: copy all the files of the boot partition (HD0:) to the HD1: and make HD1: bootable. install the sfs to the HD0: format it and then move the files back to the HD0:  if you don't do it and you just format HD0: because you don't have cdrom available at this point you will not be able to install 3,9 at all (...). procceed with the other partitions the same way, copy the files somewhere else install sfs and format, after put the files back.
i wonder why can't the amiga ''see'' the 1230scsi.device...
try to find in DEVS:DOSDrivers directory if there is a file CD or CD0, if there is not, try to find it in the emergency floppy of 3,9 and copy it to the DEVS:DOSDrivers. maybe it is called EMERGENCY_CD.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Gavilan on February 07, 2006, 07:30:42 PM
GOT IT!!!!
Thanks once again for all explanation & patience!!

You´ll be rewarded!!!

 :-D
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Thomas on February 07, 2006, 08:04:23 PM
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:
But isn't a valid bitmap there for a reason?


Of course it is. AFAIK each of the mentioned file systems maintains a bitmap of any kind. The bitmap holds the information which blocks of the disk are in use. Each bit represents one block. 0 means it is free and 1 means it is in use (or vice versa, don't know).

The main difference is how the file system handles the bitmap.

FFS is very safe on one hand because it keeps many redundancies. But it is also very memory efficient on the other hand because is does all changes in-place.

If you write a file to an FFS disk, first the bitmap is marked invalid, then the changed directory blocks are replaced, then the file's data is written to disk, then the changed bitmap blocks are replaced and finally the bitmap is marked valid again.

Now if you crash in the middle of this process, the bitmap remains marked invalid and next time the disk is mounted, the file system has to read each and every file and directory on the disk in order to recreate the bitmap, because it does not know what was changed before the crash. This is called validation (done by a program called Disk-Validator).

PFS handles it different. (I don't know SFS but I guess it is similar). PFS does not change existing blocks but creates copies of the blocks to be changed and only the final write to the root block with pointers to the new blocks in it is an in-place replacement. So if the computer crashes while PFS does its updates, the root block still points to the old directory structure which is completely valid. All changes which were made have vanished. Of course the blocks which were written are still there, but as the old bitmap still shows them as unused and there are no pointers to them, the file system does not know about them.

So with FFS, if a file was partially written, you might have a long validation session afterwards with unrecoverable errors in the end. But part of the data you wanted to save is still there.

With PFS the file system is up and usable again immediately after a crash but all partially saved data is lost.

Bye,
Thomas
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Hyperspeed on February 07, 2006, 11:57:21 PM
Great explanation Thomas!

If PFS/SFS makes clones of all saved data then I hope there's a zero-writer compatible with this filesystem - sounds like a computer-forensics expert's dream!

So you have the benefit of no long validation procedures (essential for larger drives) but if you have a small drive don't you get the advantage of possibly being able to salvage some data AND not having crap strewn all over your platter surface?

:-D
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: vk3heg on February 08, 2006, 08:22:29 AM
Quote

Thomas wrote:

I don't know if the FastPrep software does anything special to the drive. You should try if you could use on of the standard prep programs like HDToolBox (version 3.5 or 3.9 preferred) or HDInstTool.



I have tryed to use the HDToolbox that comes with 3.1. But it just sits there and does nothing. No drives get listed. I have even placed a copy of the gvpscsi.device into the expansion directory of a copy of the install disk. This also didn't work.

Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Hyperspeed on February 08, 2006, 11:33:45 AM
Does the Expansion/ directory have any real system use?

The devices like serial.device, ahi.device and clipboard.device all go in SYS:Devs/

scsi.device is in Kickstart and 1230scsi.device is on the Phase5 SCSI-IV kits ROM, isn't the GVP device on the hardware?
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: itix on February 08, 2006, 01:13:20 PM
@Hyperspeed

On SFS data is not necessarily lost (aborted disk operation is usually finished on reboot) and there are tools to recover data from SFS partitions.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: amigagr on February 08, 2006, 02:23:45 PM
Quote

vk3heg wrote:
I have tryed to use the HDToolbox that comes with 3.1. But it just sits there and does nothing. No drives get listed.



i don't remember how it is defined in os 3.1 but in 3.9 in the .info file of hdtoolbox there is a tooltype to determine the scsi device that you want to search and another to display all of the devices that are available. if it is set correctly, after you run the hdtoolbox there is a prompt who asks you to choose the right device.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: vk3heg on February 09, 2006, 07:40:41 AM
Quote

amije wrote:
Quote

vk3heg wrote:
I have tryed to use the HDToolbox that comes with 3.1. But it just sits there and does nothing. No drives get listed.



i don't remember how it is defined in os 3.1 but in 3.9 in the .info file of hdtoolbox there is a tooltype to determine the scsi device that you want to search and another to display all of the devices that are available. if it is set correctly, after you run the hdtoolbox there is a prompt who asks you to choose the right device.


This might sound like a newbie question (at was back before 1991 when I last used an amiga [os/wb 1.3]. But how do I check the tooltype?
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: Hyperspeed on February 09, 2006, 06:47:26 PM
Select the icon, hold the right mouse button down then from the Workbench menu select Icons->Information.

To edit the tooltype(/s) just click on one and edit in the box below. Click save to complete.
Title: Re: SFS problems
Post by: vk3heg on February 10, 2006, 08:48:49 AM
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:
Select the icon, hold the right mouse button down then from the Workbench menu select Icons->Information.

To edit the tooltype(/s) just click on one and edit in the box below. Click save to complete.


Thanks. I have now got my gvp drive(s) being detected by hdtoolbox. Now just to find newer roms for the gvp... as it still thinks that my 4gig hd is only 244mb.