Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: mr_a500 on February 03, 2006, 08:54:05 PM
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Computers have become so stagnant it's disgusting. If I compare my 1987 Amiga (with some slightly newer parts and software ;-)) with a computer that is 19 years newer, there seems to be only minor improvements and even some things that are WORSE. Here are some things I thought we'd have before 2000:
1. Ultra high res displays and the end of anti-aliasing
It seems these days higher resolution just means bigger displays, but back in 1998 I read an article about IBM prototype displays with 10x the resolution density. Their prototype was 17" but resolution was something like 22,000 x 9,000. This would make anti-aliasing a thing of the past because everything would be as crisp as print on paper. I think they said something about Windows having to support this and that may explain why we'll never have it.
2. The death of Virtual Memory
With 64bit processors and the ability to access >4Gb of RAM, why do we still have slow annoying virtual memory? Virtual memory should have been a temporary workaround until memory became plentiful. Why swap back and forth, shortening harddrive life and slowing everything down (and causing major problems if you don't "shut down" properly).
3. The death of optical discs
In 1997 I read about holigraphic storage cubes which could contain much more data than DVD, required no spin-up time (non-moving), were cheap to produce and were the size of a sugar cube.
I've always loved Compact Discs for music, but hated it in computers (slow spin-up, stupid inactivity spin-down). DVD - which I waited for since 1990 - turned out to be crap (like a VCR with Windows on it, crashing all the time).
4. 3D OS
They've talked about this since the '80's. I've seen 3D OS demos (in the late 90's) with hundreds of floating windows (in 3D, obviously) and flipping looked easy. Switching multiple applications using standard desktop is a pain in the arse (at least Amiga has multiple screens).
5. Speech recognition
Whatever happened to that? I'm not saying I want to type a document by saying it, but it might be good for fast OS access like switching windows, running automated tasks or opening programs. Maybe we've already got this, but I haven't seen it.
6. The death of Windows
Just kidding - but this would actually be a computer advance ;-)
Anybody have anything they've been waiting for?
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4. 3D OS
What the heck is a "3D OS"?
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mr_a500 wrote:
5. Speech recognition
Whatever happened to that? I'm not saying I want to type a document by saying it, but it might be good for fast OS access like switching windows, running automated tasks or opening programs. Maybe we've already got this, but I haven't seen it.
This seems to be a feature supported in MacOS X if the speech preferences are anything to go by. That said, I haven't tested it.
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mr_a500 wrote:
1. Ultra high res displays and the end of anti-aliasing
It seems these days higher resolution just means bigger displays, but back in 1998 I read an article about IBM prototype displays with 10x the resolution density. Their prototype was 17" but resolution was something like 22,000 x 9,000. This would make anti-aliasing a thing of the past because everything would be as crisp as print on paper. I think they said something about Windows having to support this and that may explain why we'll never have it.
In all fairness, it's one thing to have a device capable of this resolution, but quite another to drive it at any realistic refresh rate. Perhaps if you had 4 graphics cards working in parallel on successive portions of the display, each with their own DVI connection to your super duper high res display you manage it... ;-)
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What the heck is a "3D OS"?
You've never heard of this? There have been a bunch of different concepts for 3D in operating systems rather than the flat desktop model. The one I liked was where windows were arranged sort of around a 3D cylinder and when you wanted to switch, the current window would be transparent and you could select from the many windows floating behind it.
It's hard to explain without visuals. All I know is that it looked and worked great. I suppose it's similar to the computer in the Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report" (crap movie though), but without the stupid hand movements.
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In all fairness, it's one thing to have a device capable of this resolution, but quite another to drive it at any realistic refresh rate.
Yes, you're exactly right. I just realised this after posting. That kind of resolution would require massive amounts of RAM (making virtual memory still necessary) and would need faster processors too.
Well, I still want it someday. ;-)
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I've seen 3D desktop environments tested before. I think the consensus is that they are visually disorienting for too many people to be genuinely useful compared to more traditional methods.
A better system for accessing large amounts of open windows is expose (gah, another mac thing, I must be going soft in my old age), where you can readily see all your open windows on the display in one go...
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I was just thinking - in all of science fiction, the one "ultimate computer" was from the 1974 film Zardoz.
The computer is a small ring (the ultimate portable), inputs are voice recognition and visual, outputs are voice/sound and projected images (no bulky screen needed), and of course, wireless connection to a central computer. (who knows how it's powered, but it doesn't seem to need recharging ;-) )
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I'd rather see "Neural Nanonics" like those discussed in Peter F Hamilton's Night's Dawn, but something tells me that type of thing is a bit far off (if it ever happens)...
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Karlos wrote:
mr_a500 wrote:
5. Speech recognition
Whatever happened to that? I'm not saying I want to type a document by saying it, but it might be good for fast OS access like switching windows, running automated tasks or opening programs. Maybe we've already got this, but I haven't seen it.
This seems to be a feature supported in MacOS X if the speech preferences are anything to go by. That said, I haven't tested it.
I have and it works really well... but I feel uncomfortable have to speak actions which usually I do without thinking about them... Also you can't use it in a socal environment (like a Coffee Shop) and it annoys anyone else in the vacinity.
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Karlos wrote:
I've seen 3D desktop environments tested before. I think the consensus is that they are visually disorienting for too many people to be genuinely useful compared to more traditional methods.
A better system for accessing large amounts of open windows is expose (gah, another mac thing, I must be going soft in my old age), where you can readily see all your open windows on the display in one go...
Expose is great... I'm hunting down a similar function commodity for Windows... I keep hitting the F9 key on my Windoze box expecting to see all my programs...
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bloodline wrote:
I have and it works really well... but I feel uncomfortable have to speak actions which usually I do without thinking about them... Also you can't use it in a socal environment (like a Coffee Shop) and it annoys anyone else in the vacinity.
For a minute I thought you were talking about your [d]socks[/d] mac...
Not sure about annoying but doing it in a coffee shop is likely to put people off their drinks. Especially anything foamed...
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Karlos wrote:
bloodline wrote:
I have and it works really well... but I feel uncomfortable have to speak actions which usually I do without thinking about them... Also you can't use it in a socal environment (like a Coffee Shop) and it annoys anyone else in the vacinity.
For a minute I thought you were talking about your [d]socks[/d] mac...
Not sure about annoying but doing it in a coffee shop is likely to put people off their drinks. Especially anything foamed...
:lol:
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Windows progs (not sure about OS) have had speech commands and feedback. Word is supposed to support this in some way. I think you have to train it to understand your accent though. Opera also has some speech command capabilities. I always just can't be bothered though. I usually only decide what I'm going to type, one or two words in advance, so there's all too frequent editing. I don't think I could be bothered doing that with a spoken interface.
Virtual mem is rather a silly thing, specially with windows. So is all the rediculus caching that's performed. It just doesn't matter how much RAM you have, windows loves that HD swap file.
I think the feature I'm really looking for is a couple of extra arms and hands: one for the mouse, and one for my coffee, with two on the keyboard at all times. Would be damned handy for tricky soldering jobs too.
VR gloves are still under development. Might be good to use for some tasks at least. My uni's trying to develop VR gaming as a means of therapy for disabled or injured people. The idea is for kids particularly, to develop better motor coordination in their hands, while playing those all too adictive games. Should have potential.
Anyway, I guess the computer advance I'm most waiting for is ... OS4 on my x86 box. ;-) Sorry, don't want to start any arguments again.
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mr_a500 wrote:
In all fairness, it's one thing to have a device capable of this resolution, but quite another to drive it at any realistic refresh rate.
Yes, you're exactly right. I just realised this after posting. That kind of resolution would require massive amounts of RAM (making virtual memory still necessary) and would need faster processors too.
Well, I still want it someday. ;-)
Dell's new 30' monitors requires a graphics card with two DVI-connectors... :-)
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mr_a500 wrote:
5. Speech recognition
Whatever happened to that? I'm not saying I want to type a document by saying it, but it might be good for fast OS access like switching windows, running automated tasks or opening programs. Maybe we've already got this, but I haven't seen it.
It's already there. I've seen it working on a normal pc a few years ago. But there were background noises, and the system 'recognised' it as very naughty words. :oops:
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mr_a500 wrote:
What the heck is a "3D OS"?
You've never heard of this? There have been a bunch of different concepts for 3D in operating systems rather than the flat desktop model. The one I liked was where windows were arranged sort of around a 3D cylinder and when you wanted to switch, the current window would be transparent and you could select from the many windows floating behind it.
That's a GUI (not OS, GUI), written in JAVA, and it was abandoned afaik because it was way too slow.
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mr_a500 wrote:
1. Ultra high res displays and the end of anti-aliasing
It seems these days higher resolution just means bigger displays, but back in 1998 I read an article about IBM prototype displays with 10x the resolution density. Their prototype was 17" but resolution was something like 22,000 x 9,000. This would make anti-aliasing a thing of the past because everything would be as crisp as print on paper. I think they said something about Windows having to support this and that may explain why we'll never have it.
LCD/TFT have pro's wich are very practical in office use and so. Users have little use of ultra high res compared to the benefits of TFT.
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LCD/TFT have pro's wich are very practical in office use and so. Users have little use of ultra high res compared to the benefits of TFT.
What do you mean? Who wouldn't benefit from displays as crisp as a printed page? If you're talking about price, of course the current low resolution displays are cheaper.
I suppose the main reason all the advances I want aren't here is the fact that it's easier and cheaper to keep making the same old crap rather than innovate. And considering what happens to products like the Amiga, it seems innovation too soon is a bad business move.
So looking ahead 10 years, we'll see Windows 2016 which is marginally faster with slightly different graphics (the main advance is that Windows might have a different name).
We'll be using large, but low resolution plasma screens. The mouse, DVD and USB will still be in use. Software will be the same but with extra animations and a few hundred extra features you don't need
With a future that boring, I'll probably still be using my A500 as my main computer.
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Well, I do not use my a500 as my main computer (though it's placed next to it) I wholeheartily agree with you :-).
I just pointed out why it is that way in reality.
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1. Ultra high res displays and the end of anti-aliasing
It seems these days higher resolution just means bigger displays, but back in 1998 I read an article about IBM prototype displays with 10x the resolution density. Their prototype was 17" but resolution was something like 22,000 x 9,000.
That's about 200 MILLION pixels. Just try to update that many pixels 100 times per second. I dare you! That would be in addition to the 4GB of memory your video card would now need.
2. The death of Virtual Memory
With 64bit processors and the ability to access >4Gb of RAM, why do we still have slow annoying virtual memory? Virtual memory should have been a temporary workaround until memory became plentiful.
Unfortunately, as memory become plentiful, programmers were encouraged to forget about being frugal with it. While a computer may have 1000 times more memory, programs are a thousand times bigger. Hence, the same need for more memory than exists in the computer.
3. The death of optical discs
In 1997 I read about holigraphic storage cubes which could contain much more data than DVD, required no spin-up time (non-moving), were cheap to produce and were the size of a sugar cube.
Holographic storage suffers from a serious problem - it's not a progressive technology. In other words, you have to toss out all your current tech and switch completely. Computer manufacturers are loathe to do this. They want a gradual progression from one technology to a slightly newer one. CDs to DVDs. DVDs to HD-DVDs. It's rare that you make big leaps in technology. They do occur, but not very often. You might have read about something coming out in the next few years - they are making a holostore that uses a spinning disc instead of a fixed cube. This would make it more compatible with current tech, and therefore more acceptable to manufacturers. HD-DVD to Holo-Disc.
4. 3D OS
They've talked about this since the '80's. I've seen 3D OS demos (in the late 90's) with hundreds of floating windows (in 3D, obviously) and flipping looked easy. Switching multiple applications using standard desktop is a pain in the arse (at least Amiga has multiple screens).
This has never been more than a demo simply because it isn't how people use computers. People are comfortable with 2D layered windows. They fit the display technology better as well.
5. Speech recognition
Whatever happened to that? I'm not saying I want to type a document by saying it, but it might be good for fast OS access like switching windows, running automated tasks or opening programs. Maybe we've already got this, but I haven't seen it.
As one person so properly pointed out, for some weird reason, announcing in a clear loud voice "open naked nymphos number seven jaypeg" just never caught on. Go fig.
6. The death of Windows
Just kidding - but this would actually be a computer advance ;-)
It's getting there.
:-D
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Sixteen years ago, my Amiga spoke to me. It said "Ben smells" and "Paul fan-cies Jenny Leeks".
Today, synthesised speech still sounds like a Speak 'n Spell. I want a computer to address me with "Good morning Paul, I trust you are well?" with appropriate attention being paid to tone and inflection.
What HAL9000 got right in 1968 and my Amiga 500 half managed in 1990 has hit a dead end. Dammit, I want the machine I'm using to talk to me, to explain to me in respectful and apologetic tones exactly why a 2.5ghz machine is taking forever to open another text file or IE window.
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Today, synthesised speech still sounds like a Speak 'n Spell. I want a computer to address me with "Good morning Paul, I trust you are well?" with appropriate attention being paid to tone and inflection.
Ha - Speak'n Spell... that brings back memories. It was impressive for the time, but because it was from Texas Instruments, the thing used American spellings. I was just a young kid in Canada (a perfect speller) and I didn't know why the damn thing kept telling me I was spelling wrong.
S'n'S: "spell..boulder"
Me: "b" "o" "u"
S'n'S: "Wrong! Try again."
Me: "b" "o" "u"
S'n'S: "Incorrect! The correct spelling is "b.o.l.d.e.r"
(same with neighbour, honour, valour, colour, etc.)
I used to laugh at how it pronounced "n" and "m": like "in" and "im".
What HAL9000 got right in 1968 and my Amiga 500 half managed in 1990 has hit a dead end.
The "computer" in Zardoz had a nice voice too. Hey, you're in the UK - how is that Tom Baker text messaging thing working? If it sounds OK, maybe we could all have computers with Tom Baker's voice. Instead of a Windows BSOD, you could hear "Windows has crashed...would you like a jelly baby?"
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Can't remember the computer in Zardoz, but a Tom Baker voice would scare the bejeezus out of me. I am old enough to associate his voice with Daleks and Cybermen, so hearing some randy bint's text message to me via Tom Baker is guaranteed to freak me out.
The "computer" in Zardoz had a nice voice too. Hey, you're in the UK - how is that Tom Baker text messaging thing working? If it sounds OK, maybe we could all have computers with Tom Baker's voice. Instead of a Windows BSOD, you could hear "Windows has crashed...would you like a jelly baby?"
How about "Unfortunately, Windows has had to close down. I am a very bad PC [cue sounds of self flagellation]"?
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PMC wrote:
Sixteen years ago, my Amiga spoke to me. It said "Ben smells" and "Paul fan-cies Jenny Leeks".
Today, synthesised speech still sounds like a Speak 'n Spell. I want a computer to address me with "Good morning Paul, I trust you are well?" with appropriate attention being paid to tone and inflection.
What HAL9000 got right in 1968 and my Amiga 500 half managed in 1990 has hit a dead end. Dammit, I want the machine I'm using to talk to me, to explain to me in respectful and apologetic tones exactly why a 2.5ghz machine is taking forever to open another text file or IE window.
You obviously haven't tried speech synthesis in the last decade. You might check out AT&T's Natural Voices.
http://www.naturalvoices.att.com/
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JLF65 wrote:
PMC wrote:
Sixteen years ago, my Amiga spoke to me. It said "Ben smells" and "Paul fan-cies Jenny Leeks".
Today, synthesised speech still sounds like a Speak 'n Spell. I want a computer to address me with "Good morning Paul, I trust you are well?" with appropriate attention being paid to tone and inflection.
What HAL9000 got right in 1968 and my Amiga 500 half managed in 1990 has hit a dead end. Dammit, I want the machine I'm using to talk to me, to explain to me in respectful and apologetic tones exactly why a 2.5ghz machine is taking forever to open another text file or IE window.
You obviously haven't tried speech synthesis in the last decade. You might check out AT&T's Natural Voices.
http://www.naturalvoices.att.com/
Dude, thats worse than the speech synthesis in MacOS X...
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4. 3D OS
They've talked about this since the '80's. I've seen 3D OS demos (in the late 90's) with hundreds of floating windows (in 3D, obviously) and flipping looked easy. Switching multiple applications using standard desktop is a pain in the arse (at least Amiga has multiple screens).
This has never been more than a demo simply because it isn't how people use computers. People are comfortable with 2D layered windows. They fit the display technology better as well.
I beg to differ about the DEMO part, it is still under development...
see: http://www.spheresite.com/
2. The death of Virtual Memory
With 64bit processors and the ability to access >4Gb of RAM, why do we still have slow annoying virtual memory? Virtual memory should have been a temporary workaround until memory became plentiful.
Under windoze, if you have more than 1gb of memory, you can disable the VM ergo swapfile... and the OS does not hickup, just a few progs that don't like it at all...
5. Speech recognition
Whatever happened to that? I'm not saying I want to type a document by saying it, but it might be good for fast OS access like switching windows, running automated tasks or opening programs. Maybe we've already got this, but I haven't seen it.
As one person so properly pointed out, for some weird reason, announcing in a clear loud voice "open naked nymphos number seven jaypeg" just never caught on. Go fig.
ROFL.... too true...
6. The death of Windows
Just kidding - but this would actually be a computer advance
It's getting there.
Yep they are doing a good job at comitting suicide...
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Nah, I want a computer I can converse with, with a personality.
I'd like to be able to hear it directly from the computer why Half Life 2 refuses to load again and why my internet connection is much slower on my PC than on my Amiga.
Something akin to HAL9000 would be great, with a dash of Holly from Red Dwarf.
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mr_a500 wrote:
5. Speech recognition
Whatever happened to that? I'm not saying I want to type a document by saying it, but it might be good for fast OS access like switching windows, running automated tasks or opening programs. Maybe we've already got this, but I haven't seen it.
It's available, but it's one of those things that once you have, you wondered why you wanted it in the first place.
Speach wreck ignition we'll never were cry.