Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: AmigaMance on January 30, 2006, 10:56:23 AM
-
Hi.
My BPPC is flashed with the last non-Grex version flash file and the resident 68040.library is version 46.7 (2.3.00).
I have found a newer version of this library, 46.13 Friday 5 October 2001, and i want to use it.
So, afaik i have to use the BPPCFix040 module of BlizKick to flush the resident 68040.library. The problem is that when i use this module, blizkick resets my Amiga, as usual but when the system boots it freezes at the execution of the first command in the startup-sequence. (No matter which one it is) I have also tried the BPPCFix command with the 040 argument, with the same results.
Could someone tell me what am i doing wrong?
-
You are basically doing everything wrong.
The 68040.library needs to be placed in your SYS:LIBS folder, and that's it. There is no built-in library in the flashrom of your PPC card, other than ppc.library PowerUP kernel, for which you need to use BPPCFix module of BlizKick, if you'd like to disable it so that you could use WarpUP kernel.
For 68k stuff, simply place your wanted 68040.library revision into SYS:LIBS and you are all set.
-
Yes, the 68k libraries are resident in the flashrom of the bppc.
Silly question: have you set the option in the PPC startup menu to remap the rom to ram?
I have had this problem when using blizkick with bppc. I also got an error when trying to start blizkick from the command line (regardless of whether the kickstart ROM is set to remap in the start menu).
I don't know how to solve it, except by removing blizkick from the startup sequence, and just using "BPPCFIX INSTALL 040" as the first line of the startup sequence. Since setpatch resets your miggy anyway after installing there's no need for he extra reset command.
If you want to use other blizkick modules this won't help you i'm afraid.
-
The 68040.library needs to be placed in your SYS:LIBS folder, and that's it. There is no built-in library in the flashrom of your PPC card
What?! :-?
Of course there is a resident 680x0.library in the flashrom of the BPPC. Do the following expiriment and you'll see:
Remove all the 680x0 from your Libs: directory. Switch off your Amiga for 10 seconds and then switch it on.
Your Amiga will boot as would normally do and when the workbench loads, open a shell and write: version 68040.library (or 68060.library, depending on your CPU)
You will see that the library is there and running.
For 68k stuff, simply place your wanted 68040.library revision into SYS:LIBS and you are all set.
Wrong. Now, put a specific version of a 680x0.library in your Libs: and the reboot. Do a version check. Is it loaded/initiated? No! The resident version is always get loaded, instead.
That's why things like the BPPCFix040 and the "BPPCFix 040" command exists. The problem is that when i try to use them my system freezes.
-
@AmigaMance:
I've never heard of that before. AFAIK, every 68k 040+ accelerator loads the 68k libraries from SYS:LIBS, and not internally.
-
BlizKick guide indeed mentions built-in 68k libraries and using BPPCFix040 if you want to disable them, however I've never had to use anything at all in order for the SYS:LIBS libraries to take effect. Basically, what ever I've dumped into SYS:LIBS folder would take priority.
Strange. :-?
-
@ x56h34
The BPPC is a bit different in this case. All other cards I know don't store the library in flash.
-
@Boot_WB
Silly question: have you set the option in the PPC startup menu to remap the rom to ram?
No, don't worry. ;-)
don't know how to solve it, except by removing blizkick from the startup sequence, and just using "BPPCFIX INSTALL 040" as the first line of the startup sequence. Since setpatch resets your miggy anyway after installing there's no need for he extra reset command.
I did what you said above, but my Amiga freezes exactly in the same way that it does with blizkick AND the BPPCFix040 module. I tried to put the command before and after the setpatch. Nothing..
-
If I can just add that you cant just install any 040 library. It has to be from phase5 to work propery on the blizzard boards. If its commodores own or for the Apollo cards, it will cause the effect you describe
Also you can use blizkick to remove the flash version by using the bppcfix040 module as part of the blizzkick command line. Then setpatch will load the version stored in libs: folder as apposed to the one that would already be resident in memory without bppcfix.
-
AmigaMance wrote:
@Boot_WB
Silly question: have you set the option in the PPC startup menu to remap the rom to ram?
No, don't worry. ;-)
AFAIK you must have set the BPPC to remap the rom to ram to use blizkick. Blizkick then patches the rom image (which now lies in ram), and all calls to rom functions are redirected to the memory address to which this image has been mapped (in my hazy understanding of blizkick).
Further silly questions: do you have the bppcfix and/or blizkick commands in your c: directory? If not then calling them in your startup-sequence will probably crash the sequence.
Have you tried removing the 'QUIET' option from the setpatch line? The debugging information can be quite useful in determining where in the startup sequence your system is freezing.
Also, if you are using SETPATCH NOROMUPDATES "scsi.device" make sure the NOROMUPDATES is in capitals.
Don't know why BPPCFIX INSTALL 040 would cause your system to hang though.
-
@AmigaMance
BlizzardPPC 680x0.library is actually meant to be placed to the flashrom. To be able to load it off the disk you can use either load040lib (http://www.aminet.net/package.php?package=util/boot/loadppclib.lha) to load it manually with a commandline in startup-sequence or patch the 68040.library with BPPCFixFix (http://www.aminet.net/package.php?package=util/boot/BPPCFixFix.lha) to allow it to be loaded off the disk.
-
@Boot_WB
AFAIK you must have set the BPPC to remap the rom to ram to use blizkick. Blizkick then patches the rom image
No, you have it wrong. Blizkick remaps the ROM to RAM, among other things. There is no need to be done twice.
Anyway, i THINK that i found a solution thanks to Piru.
@Piru
I know about the BPPCFixFix command and i did try to patch the library, but it gives me the message "bppcfixfix: could not patch file". I don't know why. Perhaps you do.
I tried the load040lib as you suggested and i got a very limited success. I will explain:
The library gets loaded successfully ONLY if i use the BPPCFix command AND remove blizkick from the S-S !
a) If i try to use blizkick with the BPPCFix040 module, instead of the BPPCFix command, i get a #80000004 system failure window from load040lib
b) If i try to run blizkick even without the BPPCFix040 module, in conjuction with the BPPCFix command, i get the same system failure...
So, in conclusion, the only way to use a newer 68040.library is to remove blizkick. :-(
From the tests that i did, it's the one that causes the failure and i don't think i want to do that, because it is a good piece of software.
Perhaps you have another suggestion?
-
@AmigaMance
Damn, it looks like either BPPCFIx module isn't working or the 040 BPPC has some real issues without the 68040 lib. Curiously BPPC with 060 had no such problems without the 060 lib.
So if you're already using the latest BlizKick from my home page (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/sw/BlizKick.lha), I'm afraid it won't work... (esp since I no longer have my A1200 set up to allow any real work on it).
-
Yes, i'm using the latest. Oh well, thanks anyway.
Edit:
Damn, it looks like either BPPCFIx module isn't working
That can't be the case as the system failure occurs even if i use blizkick without the module. The BPPCFix040, you mean.
-
@AmigaMance
"Not working" as in "unable to disable the flash based 68040.library", in which case it would be identical to leaving the module out.
Either that or there are some serious issues with BPPC 040 without the 68040.library to set up the caches, mmu tables etc.
-
Piru wrote:
Either that or there are some serious issues with BPPC 040 without the 68040.library to set up the caches, mmu tables etc.
Interesting, I just got a BPPC 040 and I've found that it's most stable with no 040 libraries at all. With the built in 040 library, I get errors from C:Version, C:list and C:mount in my startup-sequence. Usually #80000004, #8000000A or #8000000B. Strangely they only do it once, so one boot for Version, reboot and then Mount and then another reboot and List, another reboot and then they are fine.:-? Also Wordworth 2 AGA, once loaded, only its menus work, the rest just does nothing. With no libs at all (BPPCFix) it just works.
I mainly want it for fiddling arround with programming an 040 and PPC at the system level, just for fun. I've got a Blizzard 1260 on it's say so I'll use that or my 1230IV for AmigaOS (KS 3.0 and WB 3.0).
BTW, what is the difference between the phase 5 and the commodore 68040 libraries, what do they have to do differenty to work? How is the BPPC's 040 different to the A4000/040 or a standard 040 accelerator card?
-
BTW, what is the difference between the phase 5 and the commodore 68040 libraries, what do they have to do differenty to work?
P5 680x0.library has some new API functions to allow the P5 commandline tools to modify MMU mapping in a consistent way. Also, the P5 libs include support for more hardware (obviously, since they're newer). Also, the 0x0 libs in BPPC also use some special MMU map setup to allow system to work properly with the dual 68k / PPC setup.
How is the BPPC's 040 different to the A4000/040 or a standard 040 accelerator card?
From 040 side of things, nothing much. MMU setup is a bit different to most other cards, but nothing user programs should worry about.
-
@Piru:
I see, is there anywhere I can find out where the extra parts of the BPPC cards are mapped into the address space?
-
@srg86
Dump the existing MMU table with some tool?
-
What is the newest version of 68040.library that i can use with my BPPC ? And where can i get it ?
-
I'll look at Enforcer, that has one. I wonder if there are any for 68030 and 68851 systems, I'll have a look.
The MuTools look good as well.
-
What is the newest version of 68040.library that i can use with my BPPC ? And where can i get it ?
The latest is 46.13 but is for G-REX normally.
http://grex.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=39
-
The latest is 46.13 but is for G-REX normally.
...but it still works fine even when a Mediator is present instead of a G-Rex. So just flash it & problem is solved.
-
humppa wrote:
The latest is 46.13 but is for G-REX normally.
...but it still works fine even when a Mediator is present instead of a G-Rex. So just flash it & problem is solved.
Oh so i guess the BPPCFix040 is realy not usable ? why remove it from the flash if there is no other (newer) library to load ?
-
Well, removing ppc.library or 68040.library are two different things.
Why don't you only remove ppc.library and keep 68040.library?
-
@humppa:
Because it doesn't make any difference.
-
Well, Nickman guessed that "BPPCFix040 is realy not usable".
Of course it is still usable, for removing ppc.library. Wether you choose to also keep 68040.library or instead use it from your HD instead doesn't really matter.
-
humppa wrote:
Well, Nickman guessed that "BPPCFix040 is realy not usable".
Of course it is still usable, for removing ppc.library. Wether you choose to also keep 68040.library or instead use it from your HD instead doesn't really matter.
I use BlizKick and BPPCFix module to remove the ppc.library but what i wondered about was the BPPCFix040 that removes 68040.library. I don't even understand why it's available if ther is no new 68040.library to replace it with.
-
Beginning to think that the BPPC 68040 version of the card is a bit of a nightmare when it comes to libraries.
-
Why? Both of mine are working fine with OS3.9 and WarpUP.
-
@doctorq:
Because I have nothing but troubles with OS3.0. Is OS3.0 too old for this kind of thing?
What 68040.library do you use?
-
not sure to have understood but... do a
version 68040.library full
The latest 68040 available is 46.13. (which a don't think its already in the latest FlashRomUpdate)
-
Framiga wrote:
not sure to have understood but... do a
version 68040.library full
The latest 68040 available is 46.13. (which a don't think its already in the latest FlashRomUpdate)
version 46.7, that is in the flash of the card.
-
@sgr86
I have flashed both cards with a flash update from year 2000. Installed the v46.7 68040 libraries in libs: as well, and all is running perfectly.
-
doctorq wrote:
@sgr86
I have flashed both cards with a flash update from year 2000. Installed the v46.7 68040 libraries in libs: as well, and all is running perfectly.
I get
C:version Program Error #8000000A -> reboot
Sometimes I cam also get either #80000004/A/B from the startup sequence as well from list and mount.
Wordworth 2 AGA, only the menus work.
-
Have you tryed to install in Libs: ALL the 680x0 set posted above? (the.new, .old and the little stub 040)
-
Framiga wrote:
Have you tryed to install in Libs: ALL the 680x0 set posted above? (the.new, .old and the little stub 040)
yes
-
@sgr86
Well, many will most likely claim that it's not needed to install any additional libraries for using a BPPC, but I have never been able to get anything stable out of a computer with a BPPC (both 040 and 060) without installing the software libraries as well.
Install the libraries, and the problems you are describing will disappear.
-
doctorq wrote:
@sgr86
Well, many will most likely claim that it's not needed to install any additional libraries for using a BPPC, but I have never been able to get anything stable out of a computer with a BPPC (both 040 and 060) without installing the software libraries as well.
Install the libraries, and the problems you are describing will disappear.
I see
Well, I've tried BPPCfix but it's unstable and unpredictable. Because of that I never got arround to trying BPPCFixFix to actually load the libraries.
-
You don't need to install BPPCFix to get a stable system. The only thing I use BPPCFix for is to remove the ppc.library, so I don't get a WarpUP disable requestor every time Workbench loads.
-
doctorq wrote:
You don't need to install BPPCFix to get a stable system. The only thing I use BPPCFix for is to remove the ppc.library, so I don't get a WarpUP disable requestor every time Workbench loads.
So how do you override the 68040.library on the card?
-
@srg86
I don't know, and I actually don't care as long as the computer runs stable (the only time it has crashed during the last two till three weeks is because of to heavy load on the 68040, but never to a GURU).
I'm guessing it gets loaded from file when SetPatch is run, as the only editing I have done to my Startup-Sequence is to add BlizKick with a couple of modules (BPPCFix, NoIDE, NoClick, etc, but not BPPCFix040).
-
@doctorq
For me BPPCFix stopped working at some point. Or rather, it removed ppc.library but my BVision was gone as well. In the end I decided to settle with WarpUp requester on every boot.
-
itix wrote:
@doctorq
For me BPPCFix stopped working at some point. Or rather, it removed ppc.library but my BVision was gone as well. In the end I decided to settle with WarpUp requester on every boot.
Well I'm going to settle for my Blizzard 1260 when it comes in a couple of days. I only need this BPPC card for fiddling about with programming 040s and PPCs eventually so the libraries won't be needed.
@doctorq
I will try this card once more with the SIMM from my 1230IV, it could be a RAM problem I suppose.
-
@itix
Sounds odd. And the BVision works fine without BPPCFix? What if you use BlizKick with the BPPCFix module?
@sgr86
Fair enough, if you can live without a graphics card :-) Just remember to install the libraries for the Blizzard 1260 when you get it.
-
doctorq wrote:
@sgr86
Fair enough, if you can live without a graphics card :-) Just remember to install the libraries for the Blizzard 1260 when you get it.
I've only ever had AGA anyway. I have PCs for anything better.
The libraries are already installed, ready to go.
-
@doctorq
I was using BlizKick for a while but it stopped working at some point and I had to adjust my config.
-
Hi,
use the GREX firmware on your bppc+bvision, it works well for me ! and blitzkick works well too.
-
Have you tryed to install in Libs: ALL the 680x0 set posted above? (the.new, .old and the little stub 040)
yes
Have you tried to delete them and see if the BPPC cares about them at all?
-
use the GREX firmware on your bppc+bvision, it works well for me ! and blitzkick works well too.
Works also well here with a Mediator/Voodoo. I never understood why people without G-Rex were scared of flashing the latest versions. They just added a menu for G-Rex, not that they dumped Mediator-support or anything like that.
-
srg86 wrote:
nteresting, I just got a BPPC 040 and I've found that it's most stable with no 040 libraries at all.........snip........With no libs at all (BPPCFix) it just works.
@srg86 - there is no need to install anything in libs:.
A question should solve this: does everything works fine when you remove the BPPCFIX command completely?
I believe the problem here may be some confusion over the command structure of BPPCFIX here:
The command BPPCFIX alone will remove ppc.library but leave the flashed 68040 library resident.
The command BPPCFIX 040 will remove both ppc.library and 68040.library. In this case without a replacement (suitable) 68040.library in your LIBS: drawer you can expect the gurus you've been describing.
@Framiga There is no need for 'stub' or 'dummy' libraries with the 68040. srg86 has the 040, not the 060 version.
@Nick - Your post is a little confusing - you are using "BPPCFIX 040", not "BPPCFIX040" aren't you? The 040 is an optional switch - there is no BPPCFIX040 command to call, therefore calling this would not remove 68040.library, and it would also not remove ppc.library.
-
humppa wrote:
Works also well here with a Mediator/Voodoo. I never understood why people without G-Rex were scared of flashing the latest versions. They just added a menu for G-Rex, not that they dumped Mediator-support or anything like that.
Probably because Bvision support is out and Grex support (the PCI menu and cyberpci.library) is in. If you want to use Bvision you have to go for a pre-Grex firmware. I also remember that older Mediator drivers would not tolerate the built-in cyberpci.library very well, and I'd get crashes, particulary as soon as pci.library kicks in. This doesn't seem to happen anymore with the latest Mediator drivers though.
-
itix wrote:
For me BPPCFix stopped working at some point. Or rather, it removed ppc.library but my BVision was gone as well.
I've just had to start with a fresh install after moving from Voodoo (Picasso96) to BVision (CGX) - just couldn't figure out what the problem was with my setup. It all seems to be working ok now though.
Did you try using BPPCFIX >NIL: to prevent BPPCFIX opening a screen before startup-sequence loads the monitor drivers? I'm not sure it makes a difference with the bvision, but it solved problems with "Intuition is attempting to blah-di-blah your screenmode" under Picasso96 (pain in the arse problem which meant changing the monitor output between Voodoo3 and AGA all the time when booting up). I was so pleased when I figured that one out :-D
EDIT: 300 posts: all 8o11ock5 :lol:
-
Probably because Bvision support is out and Grex support (the PCI menu and cyberpci.library) is in. If you want to use Bvision you have to go for a pre-Grex firmware.
Nonsense. GREX flashupdate works just fine with BVision (I used it for years, thought I did use CGX4, maybe it doesn't work with older CGX?).
-
@Piro : may be, a fresh install is needed, because it's known to change the "address" of the card.
It works well for me too with CGX4 (around 10/20e on ebay or in shop...).
-
may be, a fresh install is needed, because it's known to change the "address" of the card.
Huh? At least CGX isn't depending on any fixed address. Or are you perhaps referring to Warp3D? Even there you just need to adjust one file in envarc:, no reinstall is needed.
-
@Piru
GREX flashupdate works just fine with BVision (I used it for years, thought I did use CGX4, maybe it doesn't work with older CGX?).
Are there any benefits in this update for the BVision users? Just asking.
-
You get the latest ppc.library and 680x0 libs.
-
Piru wrote:
Nonsense. GREX flashupdate works just fine with BVision (I used it for years, thought I did use CGX4, maybe it doesn't work with older CGX?).
Really? It never worked for me. Interesting. Must have been a configuration problem then. I'll give it a try sometime in the future just to satisfy my curiosity. :-)
-
Success, it seemed to be a borked workbench installation.
I've installed the phase5 libraries for both the 040 and 060 (I've now got my Blizzard 1260). The BPPC uses it's built in libs though.
All is stable, though the 060 is still only detected as a 68040+68882.
-
the 060 is still only detected as a 68040+68882.
Blame the old application (showconfig I guess).
-
Piru wrote:
the 060 is still only detected as a 68040+68882.
Blame the old application (showconfig I guess).
Sysinfo as well
-
Could someone provide me a changelog for the 68040 and ppc libraries, please? I did a brief search and couldn't find anything.
I'm just curious on what changes have been made to the libraries.
-
Sorry for persisting on this but can someone post the changelog of the 68040.library v46.13, please? ( The ppc.library gets flushed by the bppcfix anyway)
The reason that i'm asking this, is because reflashing the BPPC is a very dangerous procedure and i can end up with a dead card if something happens in the middle of the flashing. So, i need to see the changelog and decide if the newer 68040 library worth the risk. Thanks.
-
It seems that it's the most rare changelog or maybe nobody cares. Anyway i'm making a last bump on this.
-
Personally I don't care.
Just flash the card, it's not brain surgery and the chances of wrecking the BPPC are almost non existant.
-
@Amigamance
I don't have it to hand, but as DoctorQ says it is pretty straightforward (same risk as a bios update on a PC) just don't pull the plug midway through.
Either that, or use the 040 switch after the BPPCfix command and install the newer 68040.library in your LIBS: drawer.