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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: motorollin on January 10, 2006, 08:48:35 PM

Title: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: motorollin on January 10, 2006, 08:48:35 PM
Intel Macs (http://www.apple.com/uk/macbookpro/)
They're updating the site as I write this, so they must have just released them!

--
moto
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: koaftder on January 10, 2006, 09:01:52 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Intel Macs (http://www.apple.com/uk/macbookpro/)
They're updating the site as I write this, so they must have just released them!

--
moto


*drool*
 
dangit, now i'm gonna have to change my pants
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Lando on January 10, 2006, 09:11:20 PM
Wow.  That looks fantastic. Visually very similar to the old Powerbook G4.  I wonder if there'll be a new desktop Intel-based Mac released at the same time?  My iBook and this Toshiba laptop will be on eBay before the weekend :-)

Whenever I see a new Apple product, it blows me away.  A new Amiga-related product hasn't had the power to do that in 20 years and never will again.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: on January 10, 2006, 09:17:22 PM
The Dual Core Intel iMacs are now on the page with both a 17" and 20" monitor choice.  $1299 and $1699 respectively.  

Where's my checkbook?

Wayne
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: motorollin on January 10, 2006, 09:21:44 PM
Quote
Wayne wrote:
Where's my checkbook?

I'll post it to you when I'm done with it. Could you just remind me what your signature looks like? :-P

--
moto
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Piru on January 10, 2006, 09:30:50 PM
They released this (http://exodus.elven.ca/images/ars/pb50.jpg)?
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: on January 10, 2006, 09:36:00 PM
:-o

I WANT, I WANT!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: motorollin on January 10, 2006, 09:38:47 PM
Quote
Piru wrote:
They released this (http://exodus.elven.ca/images/ars/pb50.jpg)?

That's brilliant  :lol:

--
moto
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: JuvUK on January 10, 2006, 09:48:14 PM
ok time for me to sound dumb (sorry in advance!)
  whats the big deal? a mac with some more pc bits in it earning a little more for mr gates, i just dont see whats so special about it, sorry
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: AmiDude on January 10, 2006, 09:54:34 PM
Yeah...What's all this mac & pc worshipping?! :-o
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: motorollin on January 10, 2006, 09:56:45 PM
Quote
JuvUK wrote:
whats the big deal? a mac with some more pc bits in it earning a little more for mr gates

What does a computer with an Intel processor running MacOS X have to do with Bill Gates?

Quote
JuvUK wrote:
, i just dont see whats so special about it, sorry

They're really fast :-)

--
moto
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: JuvUK on January 10, 2006, 10:02:23 PM

What does a computer with an Intel processor running MacOS X have to do with Bill Gates?

mr gates has more than one finger in those particular pies
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: motorollin on January 10, 2006, 10:06:49 PM
I doubt Apple would have switched to Intel if they thought they would be effectively giving money to Microsoft. They are, after all, Apple's biggest competitor.

--
moto
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Rob on January 10, 2006, 10:07:27 PM
I can't really see much exiting here.  I'm not particularly keen on MacOS and would rather use Windows if I had to go X86.

The PPC970 or "G5" was exiting because it was new.  Dual core X86 has been around since last summer.  Still Apple are a marketing company so they should have the relevant press going completely wild.  Some you are already.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Rob on January 10, 2006, 10:10:31 PM
@motorollin

If it wasn't for Microsoft's investment in Apple they'd have probably been pushing up the daisys years ago.

By the way, due to a certain MS patent Apple's Ipod is already making MS a mint.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: JuvUK on January 10, 2006, 10:27:44 PM
but mr gates does own shares in apple
 and doesnt microsoft write and release software for the mac ummmm word for example
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: amigadave on January 10, 2006, 10:52:35 PM
Since my old Titanium Powerbook is still broken, waiting for another display inverter board to arrive, these new laptops that claim to be 4 times faster with built in iSight are very tempting.  The whole family is getting into video chatting lately and it is quite fun.  Can't wait for my Sister in New Zealand to get broadband access so she can join in too.

My hope is that a version of UAE will be made that will run better, faster and easier on these new Intel Macs than the existing PPC Macs.  I finally gave up on messing with EUAE on my Mac months ago, but Amiga Forever/WinUAE/AmiKit work fantastic on my son's Athlon 3000+.  My real Amigas are getting less use now and will probably soon be only used for Video Toaster/Flyer & VLAB-Motion use for the A3000's and A4000's and artwork creation, programming in AMOS and games for kids in the neighborhood for the A500's and A1200's.

Yes, I know this is blasphemy for many of you to read, but please spare me the flames.  Amigas are great and I still love using them, but the Mac OS is the best available that is modern and up to date at this point in time.

I'll wait for some reviews (and some more money) before I make any purchase, what about you Wayne?  Are you ready to jump in as an early adopter of the new Macs?
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Doobrey on January 10, 2006, 11:04:09 PM
Quote

JuvUK wrote:
 and doesnt microsoft write and release software for the mac ummmm word for example


Yup, although IIRC Microsoft are gradually stopping Mac stuff, they've already announced there'll be no more Internet Explorer for it. Did any mac user here use it? I just saw that familiar 'e' logo and trashed it.

BTW, since MS also wrote software for the Amiga (remember that crappy Basic?) had we better stop using our Amigas too ?
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Tigger on January 10, 2006, 11:16:54 PM
Quote

JuvUK wrote:
but mr gates does own shares in apple
 and doesnt microsoft write and release software for the mac ummmm word for example


Mr Gates stake (and technically I believe it was a Microsoft stake) if he still has one, has to be fairly small according to the SEC filings, as the list of owners of greater then 1.5% of the company don't show Mr Gates, Microsoft or one of their holding companies.  As for making software for the Mac, they dont make IE anymore, they still sell office, but will not be moving Office XII (version to ship in 2006) to it according to most reports.  Though that may change if the jump to Intel causes a jump in unit sales.
     -Tig
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: koaftder on January 10, 2006, 11:44:47 PM
Quote

JuvUK wrote:
ok time for me to sound dumb (sorry in advance!)
  whats the big deal? a mac with some more pc bits in it earning a little more for mr gates, i just dont see whats so special about it, sorry


It's pretty cool, as it's a *much* needed upgrade to the powerbook line. OSX should fly on that hardware. The top of the line ppc powerbook leaves much to be desired.

Still, i wont be buying one until rev 2 comes out, and after ive read the reviews. I wouldnt want to buy one just to find out the model has some major defect like slumping screen hinges, logic board issues, batteries that burst into flames, leakey ethernet interfaces that cause packets to spill out onto the floor and stain the carpet, etc.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: JLF65 on January 11, 2006, 01:01:13 AM
All right! Time for the bottom to drop out of the PPC iMac market! Gonna get me a G5 iMac DIRT CHEAP!!  :banana:
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Sparky on January 11, 2006, 01:19:20 AM
Quote

amigadave wrote:
  Can't wait for my Sister in New Zealand to get broadband access so she can join in too.


I wouldn't get to hopeful .. internet down here in NZ is pathetic as Telecom have a monopoly on the phones lines and are fighting tooth and nail for them to be not unbundled, so at the moment, most people who have broadband get 256kbit down and 128kbit up with a 1Gbyte data cap .. at which point they either get charged or reduced to 64kbit.

Unbundling is on the horizon but it's going to take months/years to catch up with the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: mdivancic on January 11, 2006, 02:38:22 AM
The cool part is that you are suppose to be able to partition the HD and dual boot into OS X or Windows XP Pro. This is VERY cool.

Mike
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Cyberus on January 11, 2006, 02:39:37 AM
Quote

mdivancic wrote:
The cool part is that you are suppose to be able to partition the HD and dual boot into OS X or Windows XP Pro. This is VERY cool.

Mike


Yeah, I was just reading that on the net just now...Damn that's tempting!
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Oliver on January 11, 2006, 03:00:57 AM
Hmm, that's starting to look like a product I could really use.  I wonder just how many OS's I could put on one of those.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Tomas on January 11, 2006, 03:27:19 AM
Quote

mdivancic wrote:
The cool part is that you are suppose to be able to partition the HD and dual boot into OS X or Windows XP Pro. This is VERY cool.

Mike

Which is not such a good thing for the Mac platform... People will just end up firing up WinXP more and more since it has more software. And then why would developers port software/games for OSX, when it is so easy for the users to just dual boot with Windows? I think this will in the end lead to even less software for OSX.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: uncharted on January 11, 2006, 01:41:13 PM
Quote

Doobrey wrote:
Quote

JuvUK wrote:
 and doesnt microsoft write and release software for the mac ummmm word for example


Yup, although IIRC Microsoft are gradually stopping Mac stuff, they've already announced there'll be no more Internet Explorer for it. Did any mac user here use it? I just saw that familiar 'e' logo and trashed it.


Not 100% true.  While IE for mac is officially dead and buried, Microsoft announced an argeement with Apple yesterday to guarentee Office for Mac for at least 5 more years.  Which has lead some to belive that Apple is siting on Numbers (the long rumoured iWorks Spreadsheet) to appease M$
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: uncharted on January 11, 2006, 02:04:25 PM
Quote

Tigger wrote:

Mr Gates stake (and technically I believe it was a Microsoft stake) if he still has one, has to be fairly small according to the SEC filings, as the list of owners of greater then 1.5% of the company don't show Mr Gates, Microsoft or one of their holding companies.  


Microsoft are reported to have sold off most, if not all, of those shares (all of which were non-voting BTW) some time ago for a very nice profit.

Quote

As for making software for the Mac, they dont make IE anymore, they still sell office, but will not be moving Office XII (version to ship in 2006) to it according to most reports.  Though that may change if the jump to Intel causes a jump in unit sales.


See my above post about the MacWorld announcement.

However there are 2 very good reasons for Microsoft to continue Office for Mac.

1. Antitrust (need I say more?)
2. The MBU makes a nice profit for M$, and that profit has improved year-on-year
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Argus on January 11, 2006, 02:14:34 PM
I know this is blasphemy...but actually, wouldn't it be great if Bill Gates bought Amiga and relaunched it as a new killer machine?  Hmmmm????
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: orange on January 11, 2006, 02:21:56 PM
err, how come 1.83GHz is 4x faster than 1.67GHz  :-?
ok so its dual core, but still 4X ???
I thought powerpc was so much faster, efficient, better, than intel  :getmad:
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Tigger on January 11, 2006, 02:26:23 PM
Quote

orange wrote:
err, how come 1.83GHz is 4x faster than 1.67GHz  :-?
ok so its dual core, but still 4X ???
I thought powerpc was so much faster, efficient, better, than intel  :getmad:


If we are talking about the laptops (as I was), next generation processor vs G4, dual core vs single core (so really two processors vs one) and faster bus speed.  The Modo guys verified those numbers on the mailing list, so I would expect them to be accurate.
    -Tig

Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: motorollin on January 11, 2006, 02:43:10 PM
Quote
Argus wrote:
I know this is blasphemy...but actually, wouldn't it be great if Bill Gates bought Amiga and relaunched it as a new killer machine?  Hmmmm????

He would have loads of money to invest in it, but would it still be an Amiga by the time Bill had messed with it?

--
moto
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Roman78 on January 16, 2006, 12:42:37 PM
Quote

orange wrote:
err, how come 1.83GHz is 4x faster than 1.67GHz  :-?
ok so its dual core, but still 4X ???
I thought powerpc was so much faster, efficient, better, than intel  :getmad:


Think Intel Duo Core is 64 Bits and the G4 only is 32 bits.

And G5 laptop CPU's are not planned by IBM.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: bhoggett on January 16, 2006, 01:06:10 PM
Quote

Tomas wrote:

Which is not such a good thing for the Mac platform... People will just end up firing up WinXP more and more since it has more software. And then why would developers port software/games for OSX, when it is so easy for the users to just dual boot with Windows? I think this will in the end lead to even less software for OSX.

So, how do you explain that on this x86_64 box I run, which has both Linux and WinXP installed on it, I only normally use WinXP for games (about 2-3 sessions a week). How come I do everything else with Linux - by choice - even though there is less software available?

Saying "If you can run Windows you will do so ahead of everything else" is the same as saying "Windows is the best OS available and everyone would use it if they could". Patently not the case, because if Windows was so good no one in their right mind would buy a machine that doesn't run Windows. Why has Linux software been growing and improving in recent years when the same people running Linux could just use Windows instead?
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: bloodline on January 16, 2006, 01:07:12 PM
Quote

Rob wrote:
I can't really see much exiting here.  I'm not particularly keen on MacOS and would rather use Windows if I had to go X86.


Not that you would be able to tell what CPU you were using... if you don't like MacOS then the CPU is irrelevant.

Quote

The PPC970 or "G5" was exiting because it was new.  Dual core X86 has been around since last summer.  Still Apple are a marketing company so they should have the relevant press going completely wild.  Some you are already.


The G5 is old tech, designed to compete with the AthlonXP. It is certainly much older than any of the dual core x86 CPUs available.

The intel Core Duo (Yonah) is really agressive Laptop CPU, it's using the lastest technology... if you had even the remotest insight into CPU tech you'd be excited too.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: bloodline on January 16, 2006, 01:12:41 PM
Quote

orange wrote:
err, how come 1.83GHz is 4x faster than 1.67GHz  :-?
ok so its dual core, but still 4X ???
I thought powerpc was so much faster, efficient, better, than intel  :getmad:


That's simly a case of people confusing terms:

x86 and PPC are Instruction Set Architectures (ISA), they do little to suggest the actual performance of the chip which uses them. Both have design advantages and disadvantages for any given situation.

The G4 is a very old CPU architure which uses the PPC ISA, while one can't deny the pretty good Performance per Watt ratio that it has achived (a good design choice made by Motorola many years ago)... it is now far behind the CPU tech curve.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: bloodline on January 16, 2006, 01:16:28 PM
Quote

Roman78 wrote:
Quote

orange wrote:
err, how come 1.83GHz is 4x faster than 1.67GHz  :-?
ok so its dual core, but still 4X ???
I thought powerpc was so much faster, efficient, better, than intel  :getmad:


Think Intel Duo Core is 64 Bits and the G4 only is 32 bits.


No, they are both 32bit. But the Core Duo is much more modern than the G4... faster buses, better caches, better caching algorithms, better branch prediction, better instruction scheduling, better power consumption handling (dynamic scaling of individual units rather than the  entire CPU), superior northbridge...

Quote

And G5 laptop CPU's are not planned by IBM.


I doubt G5 (ie the PPC 970) has any future, no one is going to buy it by the million like Apple did.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Roman78 on January 16, 2006, 01:26:34 PM
And than saying "Leap ahead" And stil no 64-bit laptop CPU.

AMD already have one: Turion 64. What's about the Intel Dual Core Desktop CPU? Are those 64-bit? Could not find it on the intel website.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: bloodline on January 16, 2006, 01:32:24 PM
Quote

Roman78 wrote:
And than saying "Leap ahead" And stil no 64-bit laptop CPU.

AMD already have one: Turion 64. What's about the Intel Dual Core Desktop CPU? Are those 64-bit? Could not find it on the intel website.


No, intel are really dragging their heals over this issue... There is no technical reason why they haven't EMT'd these chips (Their server chips are all x86-64)... I guess they don't want to admit that AMD was right.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Agafaster on January 16, 2006, 03:42:58 PM
it looks pretty nifty though...

...I wonder... does this mean G4 Powerbooks at a knockdown price ?

-edit- had a ganders' at the new Magsafe power connector. neat !!
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: coldfish on January 17, 2006, 03:35:13 AM
by Argus on 2006/1/11 22:14:34

Quote
I know this is blasphemy...but actually, wouldn't it be great if Bill Gates bought Amiga and relaunched it as a new killer machine? Hmmmm????


It probably is blasphemy, not that it matters anymore.  

I think M$ have their hand full with their -own- killer machine, Xbox360?

It is interesting that the big names have quit with hardware exclusivity, M$'s console use PPC and Apple's iBooks use X86.

The tech' is irrelevant, personal computing is now about features, performance, ease of use and affordability.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: koaftder on January 17, 2006, 04:28:13 AM
Quote

coldfish wrote:
The tech' is irrelevant, personal computing is now about features, performance, ease of use and affordability.


i agree 100%, you hit it right on the head.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: bloodline on January 17, 2006, 09:27:01 AM
Quote

coldfish wrote:

It is interesting that the big names have quit with hardware exclusivity, M$'s console use PPC and Apple's iBooks use X86.


M$ only use a PPC because they used IBM to help design and build the new Xbox and IBM own the rights to the PPC ISA (and have plenty of experience building PPC chips)...

Quote

The tech' is irrelevant, personal computing is now about features, performance, ease of use and affordability.


Those always have always been the factors... no one in their right mind would use some obscure tech over those factors...
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: Waccoon on January 17, 2006, 10:09:56 AM
Quote
Tomas:  Which is not such a good thing for the Mac platform... People will just end up firing up WinXP more and more since it has more software. And then why would developers port software/games for OSX, when it is so easy for the users to just dual boot with Windows? I think this will in the end lead to even less software for OSX.

Why spend mucho cash on a Mac, then?

So long as they don't screw around with their pricing to get PC compatibility (as with the old bridge boards), it won't do anything to OSX but will boost hardware sales.  People may buy it because they can run XP, but then they'll try out OSX.

Besides, Apple makes money on hardware.  So long as they look fancy, they'll still make plenty of cash.

Funny how Intel got mad at Apple over the new ad campaign.  Oh, x86 has been powering crummy, ugly PCs for years, but now, thanks to Apple's help, Intel chips are suddenly worth using.  :-)

Quote
Bloodline:  No, intel are really dragging their heals over this issue... There is no technical reason why they haven't EMT'd these chips (Their server chips are all x86-64)... I guess they don't want to admit that AMD was right.

Maybe they figure laptop users just don't need more than 4GB of memory.

Quote
Coldfish:  The tech' is irrelevant, personal computing is now about features, performance, ease of use and affordability.

What?  This defies Amiga(TM) logic!

Quote
Bloodline:  M$ only use a PPC because they used IBM to help design and build the new Xbox and IBM own the rights to the PPC ISA (and have plenty of experience building PPC chips)...

Intel is pretty stubborn when it comes to custom work.
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: bloodline on January 17, 2006, 10:49:18 AM
Quote

Waccoon wrote:

Quote
Bloodline:  No, intel are really dragging their heals over this issue... There is no technical reason why they haven't EMT'd these chips (Their server chips are all x86-64)... I guess they don't want to admit that AMD was right.

Maybe they figure laptop users just don't need more than 4GB of memory.


Good point, but we are not just talking about adress space, but also a fundamental architectural shift in the x86 platform (16 GP regs and no x87 FPU for example)...

Quote


Quote
Bloodline:  M$ only use a PPC because they used IBM to help design and build the new Xbox and IBM own the rights to the PPC ISA (and have plenty of experience building PPC chips)...

Intel is pretty stubborn when it comes to custom work.


Exactly!
Title: Re: Look what Apple have just released...
Post by: ptek on January 17, 2006, 10:50:51 AM
Well ... They are ... err...  f*.*** expensive.