Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Principher on January 05, 2006, 06:41:49 PM
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After having problems getting most of the demos from the net to work, due to memory shortage, I have thought of getting an accelerator with some memory. However I am in doubt. What should I look for? I dont want a PPC board since my Amiga is in its original desktop case and I like it that way :).
So the choice is between some kind of 060 board(expensive) or a 030 board (leaving out 040 with heat issues).
Also would my powersupply (A500 one) be sufficient for any of the accellerators when it already is driving a 3.5" HD and a CD drive.
Finally, how much RAM should I be looking for? Most of the demos do not write how much they depend on so do anybody have an idea how much is usual to expect?
As you can see there are lots of things to keep track of, and I am not as strong in the Amiga market as I would like to be :) was a C64 user in my younger years, and did not get an Amiga until recently.
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You could perhaps look for a Blizzard 1230-IV with 32 MB of RAM. Shouldn't be too expensive.
-Paul
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That was more or less what I my self was thinking, but got in doubt whether it was a better idea to buy something faster while I was at it.
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Any 68030 will do. Some are not PCMCIA compatible. This means with 8MB RAM installed the PCMCIA port will stop working.
Most people are only recommending the blizzard. But because of that these cards have a tendency to be a little more expensive.
If you find a second hand accelerator just google for it's specifications. Keep in mind the PCMCIA compatibility if expanding over 4MB.
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Thanks for the replies, all of you. Guess you are right; most, non PPC, demos probably will rely on at most 030 so thats what it will be when I have saved up the cash :)
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get the blizzard 1260 and 32mb ram and you should beable to run all demos except the ppc demos...
alot of cool demos is made for the 1260 that you will not beable to play on a 1230...
whdload is also much better with a 1260 :)
________
Anice (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Anice/)
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I'm waiting for the Power Vixxen LT (PPC@400mhz). Rumor has it it is in production now with a target price of $299 US. The only question I still have is weather or not it will work with OS3.x since it is targeted for OS 4.0.
-bubba
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Is there an accellerator that will allow more then 4mb and still have PCMCIA access?
Is there another option for connecting to a LAN then through the PCMCIA port?
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It definitely won't like OS3.x. PV is for OS4 only.
Your best bet will be the Dragon - similar specs and for OS3.9 and upgradeable to OS4.0 via Shark (If it ever comes).
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rustednail wrote:
Is there an accellerator that will allow more then 4mb and still have PCMCIA access?
As far as I understand it, PCMCIA access is only a problem when using an upgrade that doesn't have a CPU (that is a card with just memory, or memory and an FPU).
Can someone else confirm this? I've been wrong on these things before.
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Colin_Camper wrote:
Your best bet will be the Dragon - similar specs and for OS3.9 and upgradeable to OS4.0 via Shark (If it ever comes).
From the pictures I've seen it looks like it will require a tower.
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bubba wrote:
I'm waiting for the Power Vixxen LT (PPC@400mhz). Rumor has it it is in production now with a target price of $299 US. -bubba
Wow! Any news on an exact release date? Where to buy?
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Most accelerators can be expanded over 8 MB.
It's only the cheepish ones that put it's memmory in the autoconfig adressspace (that overlaps with the PCMCIA adresspace and is only 8 MB in size) to save the logic to handle the memory by it's own.
Typical all bare RAM-cards, 020 accelerators for the A1200 and most of the m-tec 030 fall into that category.
On all other card the memory is only limited by the size of SIMM that fit physically / are available (as for GVP)
The 1230IV can take up to 128 MB, 256 MB with additional SCSI-kit that has another SIMM-slot.
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@Principher
If you don't want to waste any money, get a Blizzard 1230 MK4 at first, instead of the lower priced competitors out there. Blizzard boards are simply the best, as these have no problems with PCMCIA as many others have. Furthermore, the Blizzard can hold up to 128 MB standard 72 pins memory modules, but 32 MB should be enough.
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whdload is also much better with a 1260 :)
Really? Then I must have missed out on something! I've had way much more trouble with WHDLoad games since I upgraded to Blizzard 1260 (previously had a Blizzard 1230). Not only did MANY games stop running like they should with the NTSC tooltype active, but also many slaves, at least at the time (It has gotten better by now, and will get better in the future aswell, but anyways), weren't really written with the 060 in mind.
I can't think of many games at all, besides the 3D ones, which really benefits from the 060. So, please, it would be great to know why a 060 is so much better to use together with WHDLoad?
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Legerdemain wrote:
whdload is also much better with a 1260 :)
Really? Then I must have missed out on something! I've had way much more trouble with WHDLoad games since I upgraded to Blizzard 1260 (previously had a Blizzard 1230). Not only did MANY games stop running like they should with the NTSC tooltype active, but also many slaves, at least at the time (I have gotten better by now, and will get better in the future aswell, but anyways), weren't really written with the 060 in mind.
I can't think of many games at all, besides the 3D ones, which really benefits from the 060. So, please, it would be great to know why a 060 is so much better to use together with WHDLoad?
Was alsp suprised to see this statement, there's slot of games that also stopped working here...
The '030 is a much more compatible CPU with whdload games.
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Is $250 USD a good price for a Blizzard 1230 MK4?
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sounds very expensive, half that price is also a bit high
70-100 US dollars is more reasonable
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Is $250 USD a good price for a Blizzard 1230 MK4?
No, with those money you can get a Blizzard 1260. You shouldn't have to pay more than $70 - $100 to get hold of a BLizzard 1230 MKIV. Above that is expensive.
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sounds very expensive, half that price is also a bit high
70-100 US dollars is more reasonable
It depends where you are. In the US, you won't find a Blizzard '030 for that price. Or at least not one that actually works and isn't a scam.
$250 sounds a bit high even for here, though. Half that, $125, is fair to slightly cheap, from what I've seen. Another option in the US, the more common GVP model is also good, if it comes with enough memory on the GVP simms. (If not, the GVP simms are a real bank breaker!)
There are also other cheaper '030 cards, but they have various other glitches and inconsistancies. (Apollo, CSA, and 50mhz DKB version, I'm looking at you.) Do some research, and see what you can live with.
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I think the blizzard is hyped. It's blizzard this blizzard that. Like all the others are utter crap. I always had a Taifun and it worked like a charm. If you can find an 030 accelerator and it is not a blizzard, do some research. If you are not after scsi, a blizzard is not your only option. Ther pleny other cards.
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I'm about to buy an Amiga 1200 too, i would like to use it for web browsing and that for i'll need a pcmcia network card and a accelerator card. My OS should be Amiga os 3.9.
where can i found some information of what hardisk an pcmcia card is compatible with my Amiga? And then i of course need a cd drive too.
What kind of cards and drives do you guys use?
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by Andeda on 2006/1/8 14:11:21
I'm about to buy an Amiga 1200 too, i would like to use it for web browsing
If you haven't used an Amiga for Web browsing before...
Lets just say, you are certainly in for an experience.
-AmigaEd
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It's okay for browsing Amiga.org though. Anyone know when Ibrowse 2.4 is coming out? I still get the occasional crash on some sites and the Javascript handling/speed could certainly be improved upon.
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If you haven't used an Amiga for Web browsing before...
Lets just say, you are certainly in for an experience.
That certainly is an understatement... ;-)
I have an A1200 with a 128 MB equiped Blizzard 1260, pcmcia nic plus all kinds of extras (but no RTG-video!) and must say that browsing the web like this is a hideously painful experience.
Lets just say browsing the web on a classic Amiga is more or less possible. Technically.
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Jiffy wrote:
I have an A1200 with a 128 MB equiped Blizzard 1260, pcmcia nic plus all kinds of extras (but no RTG-video!) and must say that browsing the web like this is a hideously painful experience.
Blizzard 1260 but NO graphic card? Something does not fit together here... ;-)
I guess even browsing the internet with a 030/25Mhz AND RTG could be more fun than that...
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Argus wrote:
bubba wrote:
I'm waiting for the Power Vixxen LT (PPC@400mhz). Rumor has it it is in production now with a target price of $299 US. -bubba
Wow! Any news on an exact release date? Where to buy?
In February.
You can read more about PowerVixxen here (http://safir.amigaos.se/article_ack_eng.html)
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the Apollo 1240 or 1260 are fully compatible with pcmcia port,it doesn't matter how many memory are inserted
however I recommend the 1260 if you haven't a towered A1200
cause the A1240 needs a fan and there's no place on a normal A1200 case for that board
Also Apollo cards are a bit faster than blizard cause faster memory access
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Yeah the +8MB problem only affects the trapdoor memory expansions and not anything with an '030 or higher in. Not sure where this leaves SRAM in the PCMCIA port but I've read that someone has 128MB on their Blizzard 1260 and 4MB lying in the PCMCIA slot...
For retro gamers I would reccomend the Blizzard 1230-IV over the 1260. It doesn't need any modifications to SetPatch or the libraries and dummy libraries associated with a 1260. It also works at full speed without having to enter Workbench for the libraries to take effect. The downer is that Alien Breed 3D/3D2 will be 4x slower on the 1230-IV and so too games like Nemac-IV, Breathless, Quake, Doom, XTreme Racing etc.
The advantage of the Blizzard boards is the option of the SCSI-IV kit which allows you to attach CD burners, fast scanners etc. Other cards have SCSI adaptors but none are as well developed, have proper DMA and extra SIMM slot.
Doppie: I see your point of view but the UK Amiga magazines always reccomended the Blizzard range over the Apollo/Magnum cards. After all it was Phase5 that gave us the PowerPC! The 75MHz Apollo '060 doesn't have an FPU for 3D games/apps and none ever reached the Amiga Format GOLD award like the Blizzards. See the AIBB, SysInfo and SysSpeed tests and you'll see that with the Blizzard's MapROM feature the memory access is like nothing else (it copies Kickstart into FastRAM). Another advantage of the Blizzard range is that the new CPU can be temporarily disabled by holding '2' down on bootup for fully compatibility (hold reset for 15 secs to revert).
Argus/Jiffy: IBrowse 2.3 is very slow with javascript but it gets you there (and informs you it's thinking about it!), I too am eagerly awaiting IBrowse2.4. Surfing without an RTG card is dead slow, I think the ChipRAM bottleneck slows downloads, particularly with serial transfers.
humppa: How do you get a GFX card in an A1200 without spending the equivalent of a 1260 on just a new case, busboard and adaptors etc.?
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Hyperspeed wrote:
Argus/Jiffy: IBrowse 2.3 is very slow with javascript but it gets you there (and informs you it's thinking about it!), I too am eagerly awaiting IBrowse2.4. Surfing without an RTG card is dead slow, I think the ChipRAM bottleneck slows downloads, particularly with serial transfers.
humppa: How do you get a GFX card in an A1200 without spending the equivalent of a 1260 on just a new case, busboard and adaptors etc.?
I previously wanted to get my 1200 online, but then I thought, the benefits one gets for the costs invloved are just ridiculous. Putting and 060, RAM and gfx card into a 1200 costs rather a lot. I only wanted to do it because I could (maybe if I'm rich one day). I tried with UAE, and the browser situation is as much an issue as the hardware. The only reason I would put my 1200 online now, would be to make it easier to grab some downloads directly into it, rather than transfering via a PC. Now, I'm more interested in using Yellow TAB's Zeta for net access. Hope it should be fun and fast. I'm rather sick of XP and its shabby programming, poor security, and sluggish response.
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Hyperspeed wrote:
For retro gamers I would reccomend the Blizzard 1230-IV over the 1260. It doesn't need any modifications to SetPatch or the libraries and dummy libraries associated with a 1260. It also works at full speed without having to enter Workbench for the libraries to take effect. The downer is that Alien Breed 3D/3D2 will be 4x slower on the 1230-IV and so too games like Nemac-IV, Breathless, Quake, Doom, XTreme Racing etc.
Hi Hyperspeed,
please forgive me if this is a widely known issue, but I'm a returning Amiga user (after at least 10 years) - but why would Alien Breed 3D and the other 'Doom' clone games be slower on a Blizzard 1230-IV (I'm assuming slower than a stock standard A1200)?.
Thanks,
Gizmomelb
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What's with the warning?
What's your beef with Analogic?
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Well the Blizzard 1230-IV uses a Motorolla MC68030 and the Blizzard 1260 uses a Motorolla XC68060. The latter is at least 5x more powerful (and costs 5x the $$$).
Also, the '060 (as it is abbreviated) has an internal FPU as standard (some economy models lacked it) so with this 'Floating Point Unit' games that use 3D calculations will run a lot faster. The '030 boards had an extra chip which the user could add called the 68881 or 68882 PGA/PLCC FPU (Pin Grip Array or Plastic Leaded Chip Carrier).
A typical Blizzard 1230-IV if I remember would have a 50Mhz FPU installed for just 20 GBP extra. You will notice a speed increase just with FastMem but with the '030 and FPU you will be delighted. The jump in performance isn't noticed as much when you go from '030 to '060 as when you had gone from '020 to '030.
You only notice an '060 board when things get really intensive - like web browsing, 3D games, MP3 and MPEG. Housekeeping on Workbench only gets faster after the '030 when you have a GFX card due to AGA's limits.
I would reccomend Blizzard boards primarily but the craze for them will mean you can pick up bargains if you keep your eyes open!
As for getting a RAM expansion board I'm not sure that is of much use these days. Back when I first got my A1200 I would have killed for 8MB of extra RAM but nowadays there's so much more to be done (better games, better demos, MP3 music etc.) you need extra speed too!
Oh and the 'WARNING!' signature is regarding a problem I had with Analogic 10yrs ago to this month. Never have I encountered such an incompetant, blithering bunch of monkey-men in my entire life. They took 50 bucks for not fixing my A1200 and sent it back to me. When I went down to London to sort the matter out personally, the Manager stares at me with a notepad and takes notes, then tells me "You can't have the cake and eat it!". It took a few months to get the machine back and in the end Wizard Developments/Compute! found and fixed the problem in 3 days.
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gizmomelb wrote:
Hyperspeed wrote:
For retro gamers I would reccomend the Blizzard 1230-IV over the 1260. It doesn't need any modifications to SetPatch or the libraries and dummy libraries associated with a 1260. It also works at full speed without having to enter Workbench for the libraries to take effect. The downer is that Alien Breed 3D/3D2 will be 4x slower on the 1230-IV and so too games like Nemac-IV, Breathless, Quake, Doom, XTreme Racing etc.
Hi Hyperspeed,
please forgive me if this is a widely known issue, but I'm a returning Amiga user (after at least 10 years) - but why would Alien Breed 3D and the other 'Doom' clone games be slower on a Blizzard 1230-IV (I'm assuming slower than a stock standard A1200)?.
Thanks,
Gizmomelb
I guess he means slower than the 1260, which would make sense as it is a faster card.
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Oh, yeah sorry... that's what I mean. The 1260 is 5x faster than the 1230... the 1230 is about 8x faster than the stock A1200.
A1200 - *
B1230 - *********
B1240 - *******************
B1260 - ***************************************
There, that's a sort of graphical depiction to give you some idea why the Blizzard 1260 is so expensive!
:-)
You could probably get an '040+PPC cheaper than a 1260.