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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: luis_pt on December 05, 2005, 09:20:43 PM

Title: HD floppy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: luis_pt on December 05, 2005, 09:20:43 PM
is it possible to use 2HD floppy disks, the ones we get on the stores today, on the Amiga 500?
if not, in europe, there's any place where we can buy it?
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: TheWizard on December 05, 2005, 09:27:16 PM
High Density format is not supported on the standard Chinon drive that comes with a stock A500. You can, however, put a HD floppy into your Amiga and format it. The tradeoff is speed...150rpms vs 300rpms on a standard DD disk.

The Wizard
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: luis_pt on December 05, 2005, 09:32:35 PM
but, since i format the HD floppy in a low density mode (i think that is available at windows, isn't it?) i can really use it as a normal DD floppy?

the problem is that i don't have the DD floopy's to transfer files from the PC
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: humppa on December 05, 2005, 09:42:23 PM
Quote
luis_pt wrote:
but, since i format the HD floppy in a low density mode (i think that is available at windows, isn't it?) i can really use it as a normal DD floppy?


Yes, you can format HD-floppies as DD (even in XP, using format /t:80 /n:9 A: as a DOS-command).
For using these with your Amiga you have to rely on Cross-Dos however.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: luis_pt on December 05, 2005, 09:48:55 PM
didn't made my point!

this is the idea

1. get the HD floopy's
2. format as a DD floopy
3. put the ADF file there, and open it in the amiga, using cross-dos
4. convert the files with ADF2DISK and put them on a HD floopy and so i can use this floppy on the amiga
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: KThunder on December 05, 2005, 09:53:02 PM
my son thinks it is hilarious that you keep calling it a floopy  :lol:
ive only ever used DD disks in my system so i cant help you out at all but um good luck it should work fine for tranfering stuff over but i wouldnt trust it for regular use.
stupid floopies anyway
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: humppa on December 05, 2005, 10:03:01 PM
@luis_pt:

That should theoretically work. I heard different opinions about the "long-term reliability" of HD-disks formatted as DD though.
But why don't you use a serial link for transferring the files?
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: luis_pt on December 05, 2005, 10:04:06 PM
what should i call it? diskette?
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: luis_pt on December 05, 2005, 10:05:40 PM
Quote

humppa wrote:
@luis_pt:

That should theoretically work. I heard different opinions about the "long-term reliability" of HD-disks formatted as DD though.
But why don't you use a serial link for transferring the files?


i don't have a hard disk...
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: humppa on December 05, 2005, 10:11:03 PM
luis_pt wrote:
Quote
i don't have a hard disk...

You could either transfer to RAM: or use a program which directly writes the ADF to df0: on the Amiga.

EDIT: Have a look here:
http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/
http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/adfsenderterminal/methods.html
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: Eclipse on December 05, 2005, 11:20:57 PM
Quote

what should i call it? diskette?

Someone tell him, although I admit it's funny.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: Jiffy on December 06, 2005, 08:14:53 AM
How about 'floppy'. The way you spell it is indeed... hilarious... (sorry)
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: orange on December 06, 2005, 09:37:09 AM
long time ago I used pc2amiga for transfer, its very fast but requires KS2.0+ . If all you have is 1MbA500 KS1.3 you could use softkick to get KS2.0 (presumably you somehow got legal kickrom), then you're left with 512Kb free RAM. its almost enough for undms+pc2amiga. don't know about 'unADF' but it should work.
of course, best solution is to get some 'bigger' Amiga..

don't forget to cover the HD hole and don't save valuable data to HD diskette
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: rockape on December 06, 2005, 10:42:50 AM
Hi,


Edted because of incredibly crap "copy and paste" technique :)


Using High Density Floppy Disks as Double Density Floppy Disks can give you trubs.  The Magnetic layout on the High Density Floppy is different to the Double Density Floppy Disk and you will most probably loose all your Data at a critical time.


Some peeps have reported that they have had no trubs using High Density Floppies formatted as a Double Density Floppy Disks, but, I still think it's an "emergency" method only, and also make sure you've backed up your Data before using the disk.




I hope this helps you.


Regards, Michael

aka rockape
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: humppa on December 06, 2005, 11:31:19 AM
@rockape:

This guy was asking about using DD-formatted PC-disks in an Amiga. He was not asking how to use a PC disk drive in an Amiga.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: alexh on December 06, 2005, 11:38:10 AM
You might need to cover the HD hole up to make it work as a 720k DD disk on a PC.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: humppa on December 06, 2005, 12:14:14 PM
@alexh

Err, this also has been said before. Is somebody reading this thread or are you just looking at the subject before posting?
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 06, 2005, 01:43:37 PM
For games, i use hd disks without taping the hole and they work perfectly(writing and adf image to the floppy with a catweasel), but for working with the disk at os level, i.e working with files, etc.. you may tape the hole, if not you may encounter problems of read/write errors and that. There is no other trouble with hd disks. I have been using this type of disks since i bought my catweasel and i have no problems. I'm using a REV 6A A500 with 1mb ram(512+512) with the standard chinon drive and using the 1.3 rom.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: luis_pt on December 06, 2005, 06:26:11 PM
the main point is really the games.
making no plans of using amiga for important work!

there is any place where i can get DD floppy disks?
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: PaSha on December 06, 2005, 07:11:10 PM
@humppa
Quote


@rockape:

This guy was asking about using DD-formatted PC-disks in an Amiga. He was not asking how to use a PC disk drive in an Amiga.

We know... and this is exactly what rockape is talking about...
Quote

humppa wrote:
@alexh

Err, this also has been said before. Is somebody reading this thread or are you just looking at the subject before posting?


Hmmmm.... reading the thread... good suggestion...

Anyways, no offence intended or anything like that, but eh, you could perhaps read the thread before posting yourself?

And back to topic: You might find DD disks on eBay or some amiga-ish webshops, but for games... just use HD disks formatted as DD. It should work for a while, and if the disk fails, just write a new one from the .adf

-Paul
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: rockape on December 06, 2005, 07:13:35 PM
Hi,


See:  AmigaKit in the UK


http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=28&osCsid=14f3540e3a871d998a663be4e2411857


"10 X AMIGA FORMATTED FLOPPY DISKS DSDD  product code: FDMAMI001 In Stock Now  £3.99"




You could also try:


USA

www.softhut.com



Germany

www.vesalia.de




Regards, Michael

aka rockape


Amiga A4000/Cybervision643d/HypercomZ3




My other computer is a development AmigaOne (µ-A1-C) running Amiga OS4 pre-release 3.

AND it ROXXXXX !!!!!
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: humppa on December 06, 2005, 09:05:31 PM
Quote
PaSha wrote: We know... and this is exactly what rockape is talking about...
Quote


Nope he wasn't. After my post, he edited his thread though and removed the copy&paste stuff about "soldering and jumpering pc-diskdrives to get them working in Amigas".

@rockape: Could you maybe try posting without 5 empty lines between each text-line? Thanks!
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: rockape on December 06, 2005, 09:54:05 PM
yes sir !!!

will do !!!

lines close enough ?

Blimey a bloke cant get it wright sometimes :)

Regards, Michael

aka rockape
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: PaSha on December 07, 2005, 05:27:41 PM
Quote

humppa wrote:
Quote
PaSha wrote: We know... and this is exactly what rockape is talking about...


Nope he wasn't. After my post, he edited his thread though and removed the copy&paste stuff about "soldering and jumpering pc-diskdrives to get them working in Amigas".


In that case, please accept my humble apologies.
 :pint:

-Paul
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: humppa on December 07, 2005, 05:58:25 PM
Quote
PaSha wrote:
In that case, please accept my humble apologies.
:pint:


You're welcome!  :pint:  :-)
In fact I was wondering why no note shows up in the thread when somebody has been editing. At least thats what I am used to from other forums.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: Effy on December 07, 2005, 06:34:40 PM
And what about an external high density drive ?? I used to have slimline black one that worked fine on my A500+ ...
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: Eclipse on December 07, 2005, 08:23:42 PM
Ebay is cool :-)
Clicky for stuff (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/44-X-3-5-DD-DISKETTES-FLOPPY-NEW-SUIT-AMIGA-ETC-ETC_W0QQitemZ8732788089QQcategoryZ11164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I used to format my cover disks and use them. How I wish now that I'd kept those pieces of history.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: RiP on November 02, 2016, 04:34:46 AM
Is it really risky to use HD floppies such as Maxell in Amiga 2000?
I had no problem before, all I need is to reformat them with Workbench.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 02, 2016, 04:46:14 AM
Quote from: RiP;815966
Is it really risky to use HD floppies such as Maxell in Amiga 2000?
I had no problem before, all I need is to reformat them with Workbench.


You're talking about formatting HD disks as DD?  Yes.
Title: Re: HD floppy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: midway on November 02, 2016, 04:57:19 AM
I have a ton of them, if you are in the USA PM me
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: RiP on November 02, 2016, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;815967
You're talking about formatting HD disks as DD?  Yes.


Why exactly? I had no problem before :confused:

Quote from: midway;815968
I have a ton of them, if you are in the USA PM me


No, not there =/
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 02, 2016, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: RiP;815988
Why exactly? I had no problem before :confused:

Some info in this thread that I googled up real quick:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59623

Of course there's also 938457938754 other threads on this topic on various other retro forums.

TL;DR.  Go ahead and do it if you don't care about your data, or if you're just going to be writing ADF images to the disks and throwing them away if they don't work.  My .02 cents, it's 2016, floppies suck.  If you're just playing games on your system you should look into WHDLoad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHDLoad), or at least get yourself a Gotek or some similar floppy-replacement solution.  Cheers!  :)
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: guest11527 on November 02, 2016, 09:29:42 PM
Quote from: RiP;815966
Is it really risky to use HD floppies such as Maxell in Amiga 2000?

Yes - at least typically. A2000 were equipped with DD drives long before the HD format was established, which means that the typical A2000 drive will not be able to create the strong magnetic field that is necessary to change the magnetization of a HD floppy surface *permanently*. The coercitivity of the HD surface is stronger, requiring a stronger magnetic field.

If, however, your A2000 is equipped with a later, post-HD area drive with a write head that is capable of creating such fields - and some later drives actually are - then there is no such problem. For example, a modded PC HD floppy drive is still unable to read HD floppies on the Amiga because it cannot deliver the data at the rate accepted by Paula, but it can read and write DD floppies, *and* it can write to HD floppies with DD density just fine. That does not hold for the average DD floppy drive.

The question thus is: Do you have the right drive for that? Typically, the answer is "no", but you might be lucky.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: RiP on November 02, 2016, 09:58:55 PM
Quote from: Thomas Richter;815996
For example, a modded PC HD floppy drive is still unable to read HD floppies on the Amiga because it cannot deliver the data at the rate accepted by Paula, but it can read and write DD floppies, *and* it can write to HD floppies with DD density just fine. That does not hold for the average DD floppy drive.

Thanks for the info :) I don't have enough money to buy Gotek right now :(
Then modifying PC floppy drive for Amiga can write properly to save data for long time, right?
I use old Maxell floppies, made in japan.

Quote
I can only say for sure that the Chinon FB-354 drive is able to write to HD disks, because I have used one of these for years in my A-500 and I have lots of HD disks which I have written to years ago, and they all still work like a dream

I have also heard that it might help with some drives if you cover the HD hole. I assume that some drives adjust the magnetism field strength according to the sensor for the HD hole, so that it will bring up more power if it detects a HD disk.

I have Chinon FB-354 too =/
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: paul1981 on November 03, 2016, 01:12:20 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;815994
Some info in this thread that I googled up real quick:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59623

Of course there's also 938457938754 other threads on this topic on various other retro forums.

TL;DR.  Go ahead and do it if you don't care about your data, or if you're just going to be writing ADF images to the disks and throwing them away if they don't work.  My .02 cents, it's 2016, floppies suck.  If you're just playing games on your system you should look into WHDLoad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHDLoad), or at least get yourself a Gotek or some similar floppy-replacement solution.  Cheers!  :)


They don't suck if they're all you've got. Anyway, I like them and I'd never entertain the idea of removing the floppy drive from an Amiga or any other computer that should (by design) have one. It's a bit like having a Les Paul with a Marshall rig and then replacing it with an iPhone Marshall app or something and going through the PA instead. More convenient yes, but not quite as it should be and 'cool factor' lost.

It's also like replacing the engine in a classic car to an electric motor....think a few decades down the line when this may start happening - not good! We should be looking after our floppy drives and disks, not slinging them in the bin and replacing them with flash trash. Once the drives and disks are gone, they're gone for good.
Title: Re: HD floppy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: giZmo350 on November 03, 2016, 01:36:47 AM
@Paul1981

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 :)
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 03, 2016, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: paul1981;816006
Once the drives and disks are gone, they're gone for good.

Nah, because the save icon in every word processor, ever, will always be a picture of a floppy disk.  Even if most kids these days have never seen one.  ;)

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheFloppyDiskMeansSaveAnd14OtherOldPeopleIconsThatDontMakeSenseAnymore.aspx
Title: Re: HD floppy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: giZmo350 on November 03, 2016, 01:52:30 AM
(http://savethefloppy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/logo_main2.png) ;)

(https://www.bram.us/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Kids-Today-1.jpg)
Title: Re: HD floppy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: LoadWB on November 03, 2016, 03:53:49 AM
Quote from: gizmo350;816011
(http://savethefloppy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/logo_main2.png) ;)

(https://www.bram.us/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Kids-Today-1.jpg)


Yup.  No idea what breasts look like because we're slowly but surely progressing toward total androgyny to avoid offending or shaming anyone.

BUT, more on-topic, I have an Indus GT with an XU1541 sitting on my desk at the office and a drawer with 5 1/4" floppies.  There are a number of youngin's around who think it's pretty cool to see them work, but then also think I'm a little out of my mind for "playing" with them.
Title: Re: HD floppy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: dovegrace on November 03, 2016, 01:05:11 PM
I couldn't imagine my A500 without a floppy drive.  It just wouldn't be the same, playing cracked games without hearing that hideous grinding noise (when loading) and scaring the kids.
Title: Re: HD floopy disks on Amiga 500
Post by: psxphill on November 03, 2016, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: Effy;219124
And what about an external high density drive ?? I used to have slimline black one that worked fine on my A500+ ...


Those were old dell external laptop drives sold with a converter cable and a new badge stuck over the dell badge. They slowed down to 150rpm when you inserted a high density disk, like the Amiga 4000 drives did.