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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: ChaosLord on December 05, 2005, 01:11:23 AM
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I had a perfectly working LAN between my PC with WindowsXP SP2 using builtin ethernet port and my A1200T OS 3.9 with Samba (Mediator PCI Ethernet card)
Then I got DSL so I had to disconnect the LAN cable so that I could connect the DSL modem.
Ever since that day, no matter what I do, I can't get my LAN reconnected :bigcry:
I currently have 2 ethernet ports in my PC. 1 is the built in one. The other is a new PCI Ethernet card. They both work perfectly. I know because I have been online thru both ports.
So I figure there must be some secret setting in XP that flipped itself and I need to flip it back?
The Amiga was not moved or tampered with in any way.
Anything I should check?
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Well, for starters, each computer in a simple PC LAN environment, known as a workgroup, must be a member of that workgroup to "see" each other. Crate a workgroup name something like "mylan". Join all computers to that workgroup and you should be good to go. Also, be sure to set your router to supply the lan scheme IP addressing by enabling DHCP. Hope this helps a little. BTW, you do have a router, right? ;-)
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I use static IP between the Amiga and PC. Ensure that the Subnet Mask is consistent between all the connected network equipment and the Gateway IP is consistent.
Also ensure that the IP addresses use the same format on each computer. Enter the IPs / Computer names in to the hosts section on Genesis or Miami.
Also ensure the Workgroup name is consistent between every computer and Windows XP accepts shared access on the folder you want to share on the network
Example:
DSL Router
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IP address: 192.168.0.1
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
PC
--
IP address: 192.168.0.2
Gateway: 192.168.0.1
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
Amiga
-----
IP address: 192.168.0.3
Gateway: 192.168.0.1
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
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Of course they are in the same workgroup!
How else would my LAN have worked all that Time? :crazy:
I am not using DHCP.
Each computer has its own static IP address. Just as it always has.
I am not using a router.
The 2 machines are connected Directly together via a crossed Ethernet Cable which is still new. I just bought it a few months ago.
As I said; it was working perfectly, now it is not.
The only thing that changed was ... I setup for DSL which uses a stupid PPPoE connection thing... so in the process of setting that up I think maybe something in XP got turned off. I have noticed that XP changes settings without my permission sometimes.
Any ideas?
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@gizmo350
Well, for starters, each computer in a simple PC LAN environment, known as a workgroup, must be a member of that workgroup to "see" each other. Crate a workgroup name something like "mylan". Join all computers to that workgroup and you should be good to go.
This is not required for networking to work. Ping works just fine regardless of workgroup.
Thus, this cannot be his problem.
@ChaosLord
Of course they are in the same workgroup!
How else would my LAN have worked all that Time?
Just fine.
The only thing that wouldn't work would be the samba connection. Ping, and every other network connection between the computers would still work.
Anyway, regarding the problem: One possibility is that the XP firewall has for some reason figured that your system must be blocked. Try temporarily disabling the firewall and see if you can ping then.
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When I first read this, it sounded like he had two PC's and an Amiga... I figured that he was already direct connecting the two PC's. Introducing a third computer would require some sort o router. BTW, in XP with a router/lan setup, all computers must be in the same workgraoup to browse and share. Sheeesh. Just trying to help. Why do some peeps here always feel the need to "out-smart" the other guy? ;-)
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Piru wrote:
@ChaosLord
Of course they are in the same workgroup!
How else would my LAN have worked all that Time?
Just fine.
The only thing that wouldn't work would be the samba connection. Ping, and every other network connection between the computers would still work.
Anyway, regarding the problem: One possibility is that the XP firewall has for some reason figured that your system must be blocked. Try temporarily disabling the firewall and see if you can ping then.
My Windows XP firewall has never been on. I don't trust it.
When you say 'disable' do you mean clicking the OFF button?
(it always has been off)
I do use Kerio Personal Firewall... ok I disabled it. I still can not ping. BTW it is excessively dangerous to turn off the firewall while online with Verizon DSL.
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@gizmo350
Just because it obviously cannot be a workgroup problem (just think about it for a second, wrong workgroup can't block ping!).
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@ChaosLord
BTW it is excessively dangerous to turn off the firewall while online with Verizon DSL.
If your system has the security updates upto date and doesn't have passwordless network shares open to everybody, it should be safe for testing.
Anyway, you should try isolating the problem a bit. Try connecting the amiga to some other system or the DSL directly (if only possible), and see if that works. It helps if you can rule out some hardware from the equation...
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Piru wrote:
Anyway, you should try isolating the problem a bit. Try connecting the amiga to some other system or the DSL directly (if only possible), and see if that works. It helps if you can rule out some hardware from the equation...
Yes good idea!
...
but one small problem...
Verizon DSL sux and requires PPPoE. So I would need a PPPoE client for Amiga. (preferably for Miami)
I had my A1200T on DSL in my old Apartment since 2000 but that was using SBC DSL which is super ez to connect to. Just plug it in and go. I never should have switched to Verizon. :(
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@ChaosLord
Alternatively if you have some 2nd pc you could try replacing the amiga with it and see if that works (just remember to config the static ip to one used in amiga 1st).
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@gizmo350
Just because it obviously cannot be a workgroup problem (just think about it for a second, wrong workgroup can't block ping!).
That's true... I guess I was really wondering if he was using a router. :-D
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Piru wrote:
@ChaosLord
Alternatively if you have some 2nd pc you could try replacing the amiga with it and see if that works (just remember to config the static ip to one used in amiga 1st).
hmmm.... interesting idea!!!!!!!
It just so happens that Santa Claus dropped a brand new Linspire PC in my closet. :-D
Is it easy to config Linspire TCP/IP settings?
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My gateway is 192.168.1.2
That setting is the same on all Ethernet cards including Miami.
Is it ok to use that address?
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Ok I hotswapped the DSL Modem cable out of the PC and plugged it into my A1200T. Then I pinged the modem. It works!
This proves that my Amiga+Mediator+PCI Ethernet card all work great!
So the trouble is either:
A: Windows XP is blocking pings and all other communication to/from my Amiga.
B: My brand new crossed ethernet cable has suddenly gone bad.
:-?
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have you tried "route print" to check it?
there was a registry hack to enable xp to function as a router, but I'm not sure you would need that..
the problem is probably in gateway, test that..
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I know you said you weren't using it, but check your Windows firewall settings anyway. I've found that occasionally Windows likes to reconfigure itself.
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uncharted wrote:
I know you said you weren't using it, but check your Windows firewall settings anyway. I've found that occasionally Windows likes to reconfigure itself.
I have checked it many times over the last few days.
It always says it is in the "OFF (Not Recommended)" position.
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orange wrote:
have you tried "route print" to check it?
there was a registry hack to enable xp to function as a router, but I'm not sure you would need that..
the problem is probably in gateway, test that..
How do I test my gateway?!?!
I thought it was just some made up IP# that didn't really exist?
I donno what a gateway is. I have heard it has something to do with cows that go 'moo'. :-D
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What's the setup, really? You say, you pinged your modem - a DSL modem usually has no IP; sounds more like a router.
Does the modem/router have only one LAN port or more than one? How do you connect Amy, PC and 'Modem'? Is there some Hub/Switch in between?
A crossover cable is only good for connecting exactly two NICs, if you've got more devices you need a hub/switch. The port LEDs must light up when something's hooked up.
Forget about routing for a minute, if the hosts can't ping each other everything else is in vain.
Something like:
Router: 192.168.0.1, mask 255.255.255.0
Amy: 192.168.0.2, mask 255.255.255.0
PC: 192.168.0.3, mask 255.255.255.0
should work.
If you can't ping the PC, ping Amy from Windoze. Look at the ARP table to see if the IP could be resolved to the physical MAC address ('arp -c').
PS: sorry, read your description more carefully now: you're trying to share the Internet connection from the one NIC connected to DSL through the second NIC of your PC?
You'd need to activate ICS then, but it's not very good (=reliable) - get a simple DSL router (~$30). Or get some decent NAT routing software for Windows, I've used Sygate a couple of years ago. There's no way to do what you want without NAT, since you've only got one public IP.
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Zac67 wrote:
What's the setup, really? You say, you pinged your modem - a DSL modem usually has no IP; sounds more like a router.
It is a DSL Modem with a router secretly built-in to screw up P2P networks. So I went in and disabled the routing. It is now a pure DSL Modem.
Does the modem/router have only one LAN port or more than one?
It has only 1 Ethernet port.
How do you connect Amy, PC and 'Modem'? Is there some Hub/Switch in between?
No hubs and no switches.
The DSL Modem is irrelevant since it is not involved in my Amiga<->PC LAN but since you asked :-)
The current setup is:
DSL Modem connects to PC via an Ethernet cable to a PCI EThernet card in slot 2.
Amiga and PC are connected via a crossed Ethernet cable from the Amiga's PCI Ethernet card to the PC's builtin Ethernet connector.
Its a direct connection so that nothing can go wrong, it can't be hacked and is 100% secure.
A crossover cable is only good for connecting exactly two NICs, if you've got more devices you need a hub/switch. The port LEDs must light up when something's hooked up.
They do light up perfectly and they connect at the correct speed.
Forget about routing for a minute, if the hosts can't ping each other everything else is in vain.
That is why I don't have a router :-)
Something like:
Router: 192.168.0.1, mask 255.255.255.0
Amy: 192.168.0.2, mask 255.255.255.0
PC: 192.168.0.3, mask 255.255.255.0
should work.
My setup is very similar. But I have no router.
If you can't ping the PC, ping Amy from Windoze. Look at the ARP table to see if the IP could be resolved to the physical MAC address ('arp -c').
C:\Documents and Settings\James>arp -a 192.168.1.101
No ARP Entries Found
No matter what I do it says "No ARP Entries Found"
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I do not want to share the internet connection.
I have no need for that.
I just want my LAN to work. That is all.
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Hmm,
could be a problem in the NWAY negotiation - manually configuring both sides to exactly the same parameters (e.g. 10 Mbps full duplex) should take care of that. Have you swapped the cable? Little chance, but they do break at times.
Are the connect LEDs lit on both sides? Is there any activity on the opposite side when you try to ping?
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Zac67 wrote:
Hmm,
could be a problem in the NWAY negotiation - manually configuring both sides to exactly the same parameters (e.g. 10 Mbps full duplex) should take care of that. Have you swapped the cable? Little chance, but they do break at times.
Not yet, I must buy new ones first.
Are the connect LEDs lit on both sides?
Yes
Is there any activity on the opposite side when you try to ping?
No. None.
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What ip did you assign to the amiga and the pc network card?
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Amiga - 192.168.1.101
PC = 192.168.1.102
Those numbers have worked since around 2000
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Connecting 3 machines together doesn't require a router. It needs either a switch (or in the worst case hub) or 2 ethernet cards in one machine (on the same subnet).
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It is a DSL Modem with a router secretly built-in to screw up P2P networks. So I went in and disabled the routing. It is now a pure DSL Modem.
A router is never "secretly built-in to screw up P2P networks", it's there so that you can hook up more than one machine to the internet. You need to configure it, to use P2P networks.
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AmiGR wrote:
It is a DSL Modem with a router secretly built-in to screw up P2P networks. So I went in and disabled the routing. It is now a pure DSL Modem.
A router is never "secretly built-in to screw up P2P networks", it's there so that you can hook up more than one machine to the internet. You need to configure it, to use P2P networks.
1. You have obviously never dealt with Verizon.
2. YES it IS secretly a router.
A. They did not tell me it is a router.
B. It has only 1 Ethernet connector so it looks just like a normal modem.
C. Their tech support hung up on me rather than tell me if the modem secretly had a router or not.
3. Absolutely nothing worked on it at first. Not ftp, not irc /dcc send/get/recv, not p2p games, everything was broken except for viewing the web. That is because it is a router and was hiding me behind a FAKE IP# so nothing could work!
4. Verizon is owned by some big media corp. (read movie studios) and they hate p2p ppl sharing movies.
5. Their router "accidentally" crashes when using p2p networks! In other words it analyzes packets and when it thinks you are using p2p filesharing, it just "crashes" and corrupts data.
6. Verizon gives each user a CD and DEMANDS that the user install it. The CD contains spyware and bogware (crap that bogs your computer down).
7. In an effort to coerce and intimidate the user into installing the CD, the connection won't work unless you install the CD!! WTF?! Every other DSL connection I ever had worked instantly by plugging the modem into the phone jack, no software or configuring needed.
I found a troublesome way to work around installing the CD after a few days. But average people don't know about this!
p.s. None of this message has anything to do with my LAN not working, which is still a mystery. :-?
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ChaosLord wrote:
Amiga - 192.168.1.101
PC = 192.168.1.102
Those numbers have worked since around 2000
Yes, and that's probably why it does not work now. I assume you're using a mask of 255.255.255.0, and all IPs are in the same segment 192.168.1.x, so there's no way for the PC to know which NIC to use, routing wise.
Two NICs in the PC mean two segments which must be differentiated by their network address. Use
192.168.1.101 Amiga
192.168.1.102 PC (Amiga connection)
192.168.2.102 PC (DSL side)
with a mask of 255.255.255.0 (/24) or don't bind an IP to the DSL NIC at all.
Or enlarge the network mask to 255.255.255.240 and use
192.168.1.17 / 192.168.1.18 Amiga - PC
192.168.1.1 / 192.168.1.2 DSL - PC
Binary ANDing the host IPs with the network mask gives you the network address and these MUST be different for the two networks your running, otherwise your routing will be screwed up. Be aware that the host part of the IP (the rest) must not be all 0s or all 1s. Eg. a host IP of 192.168.1.16 with a 255.255.255.240 mask (/28) is not valid since 16 and 240 equals 16 and the rest is 0.
PS: Noone forces you to be a Verizon customer... ;-)
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[color=ff00ff]Zac67 Rulez the Scene!![/color][/b]
Thank you! :banana: :love: :thanks:
Woohoo!!!!!!! The ping works now!!!!!!!
But the LAN is still not quite working again :-?
When I select "View workgroup computers" in windoze XP it sits there for a while then gives an error that it can't access that info, maybe I don't have permission, blah blah.
So I still can't actually share files between the 2 machines like I used to.
YES they both have the same workgroup name I am 100% sure of this.
What should I do?
p.s. About Verizon:
1. Nobody told me about their user hostile policies before I signed up. I just assumed it would be the same as SBC DSL.
2. Verizon is forcing me because they tricked me into a 1 year contract before I had any idea how crap they were.
3. In fairness, my upload connection speed is good.
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OK I reset the Windows XP Machine. It helped a tiny bit.
Now when I do "View Workgroup Computers" it gives no errors.
But it only lists itself, not my luvly A1200! GRRR. :madashell:
My LAN worked perfectly before, why has everything gone all wonky? :-?
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Ok I got the last probs sorted out.
The final prob was this:
A few weeks ago when I moved I had to get new DSL service.
Unfortunately I chose Verizon.
As soon as I connected to the DSL I immediately and constantly was attacked by various Verizon servers. All attacks appear to have come from different Verizon servers across the country. They mostly tried to connect to Microsoft File and Printer sharing. Always on a different port number. Sometimes they would try multiple ports in a row. Sometimes they would try to connect to some other service. After a while they began trying to connect to "Kerio Personal Firewall 4 GUI" WTF?!?!
So anyway I blocked all this crap with the Kerio firewall.
I sort of overblocked it and caused my LAN file sharing to not work.
After fiddling around in the firewall settings for 15 mins I finally got it all sorted out.
Everything works perfectly now!
[color=008000]Now I can get back to coding Amiga Software! YAY!!![/color][/b]
Thanks to everyone for your help!!!! :love:
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Nice to hear that it's working again. :-)
I usually ignore the crapy workgroup stuff and just UNC access the machine \\computer\share and that's it. Even with two domain controllers, network neighborhood is not working 100% reliably - windows networking sucks! :lol:
Actually you don't need much of a firewall on the Amiga side, since there's little probability that Amy attacks your XP box. :-P Just watch out for the DSL side; connecting 2k/XP w/o firewall is right next to suicide...