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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: LawlessPPC on December 04, 2005, 01:55:14 PM
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I have just recently recieved my DBOX1200 Tower (thanx AmigaKit (cant touch till Xmas) so shortly I will be re-towering my A1200. What I am eager to know is which is the best PCI solution for the A1200 (GRex or Mediator) what are the geniune transfer rates. Also in terms of IDE interfaces which is the best solution for speed. The ones that split the drives into 4GB chunks is there a way round this as the filesystem can take care of that now. Also where and how much is the cheapest right angle PCMCIA adapter, I want to drop her on the network. I hav'nt switched this baby on for nearly 2 years. I thought Amithlon at one point was my saviour then that all crumbled.
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Mediator 1200 SX!
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Mediator rocks :-)
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moto
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Get a Mediator and a 100mbit PCI Ethernetcard instead of that PCMCIA adapter.
The pricey Mediator 1200 SX is only necessary if you are keen on using ATX PSUs and really know how to fill 6 PCI slots.
Otherwise get the Mediator 1200 LT4 with four PCI slots. You can put in a Voodoo3, Ethernetcard, Soundcard and TV-tuner.
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And in slot number 5 === Spider USB!
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I have a mediator it is not as fast as the g-rex but the drivers are better and its bug free. and mediators are better supported.
Also in terms of IDE interfaces which is the best solution for speed
that would be the FAST ATAmkIII (POWERFLYER) i have one, only problem with it is that it eats my cpu.but it is the fastest ypu can get on yhe a1200
adonay :-D
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what is the best price anyone can get the meditor sx and does it do real DMA for
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the best prise would be second hand or check elbox.com
it is fully DMA all channels
adonay :-D
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You can also get a Mediator ZIV setup. Then you will have 4 PCI slots like the Mediator LT, as well as 5 Zorro slots. The Zorro slot can be useful for a Kickflash card or Vlab cards for instance, and the busboard will have a connector for a PowerFlyer ZIV. Doubt the PowerFlyer ZIV is faster than the PowerFlyer MK3 though.
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doctorq wrote:
You can also get a Mediator ZIV setup
...for example from doctorq who is currently selling one.
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@LawlessPPC
Thanks for your purchase :-)
The MediatorSX (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=329) is a great mature product. It supports ATX as standard and the 6x PCI slots are certainly useful. I have my MediatorSX fitted with the 100Mbit Network Card (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=63) (essential for broadband), Terratec 512i (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=155) for 4.1 surround sound, Spider II USB (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=193), Voodoo 2D/3D card (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=360), TV & Radio card with Remote (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=378).
The G-Rex is a good product, supported by OpenPCI initiative but no longer in production and is limited to BlizzardPPC owners only. Due to supply problems, we don't stock them.
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...for example from doctorq who is currently selling one.
Correct :-D
I'm selling it because the solution doesn't fit my tower. Only 2 of the 4 PCI slots can be used, since the backplate of the tower blocks the rest :-(
I'm too lazy to go searching for a PowerTower for it, but if anyone has one for cheap I'd be interested :-)
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I also have a ZIV-board lying around here. Unfortunately, the adaptor for the CPU-slot has a bad lead which causes the -12V rail not being transferred to the MoBo.
Does anybody know if I still can get such a connector somewhere?
I suppose you won't sell the adaptor separately, doctorq?
Sorry for being a little OT.
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If you happen to have a SCSI Kit I'd recommend you'd go for some SCSI drives since you will get better results when it comes to speed. Also, as far as I know the DMA on the Mediator is a bit funky, since it uses the GFX-card (or the network card, not sure) to enable DMA (long time ago since I discussed this very issue with someone that knew exactly how it worked). Anyhow, my point is, the DMA-handling will also be better with SCSI.
If someone knows this better than me, please correct me, because like I said, I'm not really remembering exactly how this actually is working.
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I never used a mediator, but as a G-Rex owner I can reccomend one, just look for the newer version that has 2 DMA slots. G-rex is said to be faster than the mediator, and can utilize the full gfx mem (not only the 8mb like the mediator) but you can only use up to 2 dma cards (a soundcard and a tv tuner for ex.) and there is no usb support for cards...
Also I have not discovered any bugs yet on the g-rex, it functions as it should be :-D
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@Keropi
You have misunderstood something regarding the Mediator. Mediator can use the full gfx mem as well, as long as you don't use Warp3D. If you have no use for Warp3D you can use all the 16 MB of the ram without problems.
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doctorq wrote:
@Keropi
You have misunderstood something regarding the Mediator. Mediator can use the full gfx mem as well, as long as you don't use Warp3D. If you have no use for Warp3D you can use all the 16 MB of the ram without problems.
To be more specific, the Mediator only allows access to 8MB of PCI memory at a time due to the limitations of the trapdoor expansion slot. The Mediator hardware does provide banked access to the whole 4GB PCI address space (i.e. the driver has to write to a register to change the bank). The 2D graphics drivers have been written to work around this limitation, but the 3D drivers have not (and never will).
The G-Rex doesn't have this limitation as it doesn't use the trapdoor slot (it also has a lot more bandwidth as a result). Of course as others have pointed out, driver support isn't as good and some people have had trouble getting them to work with their Blizzards.
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@MskoDestny
To be more specific, the Mediator only allows access to 8MB of PCI memory at a time due to the limitations of the trapdoor expansion slot.
More precisely speaking, it isn't the limitation of the trapdoor expansion slot, but the limitation of the A1200 turbo cards. Existing A1200 turbo cards have only 24 address lines connected to the trapdoor slot, instead of 32 address lines supported by this slot.
The Mediator hardware does provide banked access to the whole 4GB PCI address space (i.e. the driver has to write to a register to change the bank).
You are right here.
The 2D graphics drivers have been written to work around this limitation, but the 3D drivers have not (and never will).
Actually it's quite opposite.
Warp3D drivers have access to the whole Voodoo graphic card resources - it means to the Voodoo registers and to 16MB (or 32MB in case of V4 and V5) of the Voodoo graphic memory. The limitation is that the Picasso96 2D graphic system can use only 8MB of the gfx card memory when Mediator works in the NO-MMU mode. The rest of the Voodoo card memory is then used by the Warp3D textures and the PCI DMA buffers.
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to tell you the truth, I think one should choose the most cost-effective solution for him... both solutions are near in speed, and as for driver support I think they are the same, there will not be a prob with g-rex drivers as long as one uses a supported card, and I think that applies to both boards... 3D on amiga is a joke, don't forget that... get the cheaper!
just my 0.2euro .
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Hi,
all depend of what you plain to do !
You have a PPC card ?
OS 3.x + MOS 1.4.5 -> GREX1200
Already full 3D Voodoo 4 & 5 support under MorphOS :-)
maybe OS4 will be well supported for the Mediator1200
Grex is only avaible on Ebay and it's usually cheaper than any mediator.
But for the GREX1200 you'll need a BPPC revision2.
If you get a revision 0 you'll need to pray or to pay DCE to flash it to rev2.
Only the cheap sound card with ESS Solo1 work under OS3.x, not yet on MOS P.UP (but paula did ;-) )
Only the cheap 10 Mpbs network card with RealTek RTL8029AS chip works (OS3.x and MOS P.UP)
Lot of PCI TV cards works
It seems that SCSI card with NCR/symbios chipset can be used under MOS, but as my BPPC got already scsi I don't know.
About USB2, there are some tries with VIA USB2 chipset.
You'll find more info about it on the unofficial GREX Page, the Yahoo! Group for GREX, and on the Elbox site for the Mediator.
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doctorq wrote:
...for example from doctorq who is currently selling one.
Correct :-D
I'm selling it because the solution doesn't fit my tower. Only 2 of the 4 PCI slots can be used, since the backplate of the tower blocks the rest :-(
I'm too lazy to go searching for a PowerTower for it, but if anyone has one for cheap I'd be interested :-)
Hi Dr Q.
I'm still waiting for a freebie Tower from Eyetech to install the last Mediator you sold.
:boohoo:
6 weeks delivery...bah!
ps. Tinsnips?
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tjaoz wrote:
@MskoDestny
More precisely speaking, it isn't the limitation of the trapdoor expansion slot, but the limitation of the A1200 turbo cards. Existing A1200 turbo cards have only 24 address lines connected to the trapdoor slot, instead of 32 address lines supported by this slot.
Well there are 8 reserved pins that could theoretically be used for the rest of the address bus, but generally speaking it's unwise to use reserved pins for anything so it's certainly arguable that it's a limitation of the trapdoor slot.
Warp3D drivers have access to the whole Voodoo graphic card resources - it means to the Voodoo registers and to 16MB (or 32MB in case of V4 and V5) of the Voodoo graphic memory. The limitation is that the Picasso96 2D graphic system can use only 8MB of the gfx card memory when Mediator works in the NO-MMU mode. The rest of the Voodoo card memory is then used by the Warp3D textures and the PCI DMA buffers.
I don't see how Warp3D can use more than 8MB of texture memory (apart from using the MMU). I suppose it could use 8MB for textures and the like and then instruct the Voodoo to render to a framebuffer in another 8MB page.
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@MskoDestny
Well there are 8 reserved pins that could theoretically be used for the rest of the address bus, but generally speaking it's unwise to use reserved pins for anything
These trapdoor pins (no. 1 to 8) are not reserved for "anything". :-D They are reserved for A24 to A31 address lines (check the schematic of A1200 main board).
So, if the A24 to A31 address lines of the existing turbo cards are not connected to the trapdoor slot, it is certainly a limitation of the turbo cards, not the limitation of the A1200 trapdoor slot.
I don't see how Warp3D can use more than 8MB of texture memory (apart from using the MMU).
You explained it yourself: "The Mediator hardware does provide banked access to the whole 4GB PCI address space (i.e. the driver (Warp3D driver in this case) has to write to a register to change the bank)". :idea:
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tjaoz wrote:
These trapdoor pins (no. 1 to 8) are not reserved for "anything". :-D They are reserved for A24 to A31 address lines (check the schematic of A1200 main board).
I stand correct there. I was going off of a pinout from BBoAH.
So, if the A24 to A31 address lines of the existing turbo cards are not connected to the trapdoor slot, it is certainly a limitation of the turbo cards, not the limitation of the A1200 trapdoor slot.
Well the A24 to A31 address lines aren't connected to anything on the A1200 so I would argue that it's the A1200 implementation of the A1200 trapdoor slot that is at fault even if the specification supports 32-bit addressing. If this were not the case, the turboboard would have likely allowed for 32-bit addressing.
You explained it yourself: "The Mediator hardware does provide banked access to the whole 4GB PCI address space (i.e. the driver (Warp3D driver in this case) has to write to a register to change the bank)". :idea:
I was not aware that Hyperion had customized the Mediator Warp3D driver(s) to this degree.