Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ChaosLord on November 27, 2005, 04:32:51 PM
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I need to know:
1) Is it legal?
2) If it is legal is there a horrible tax/bribe that must be paid to customs?
Apparently new computers in the USA cost 1/4 what they cost in Scandinavia. So I bought a puter for my friend but I dunno if it is safe to mail it to him. :-?
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Why wouldnt it be legal?
Your friend will have to pay import taxes plus VAT though.
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I don't know of any reason WHY NOT...... I am sure that EBay people are doing it. Just check with the post office or the courier you are gonna be using. I remember sending a CDRom from Canada to the States and I had to do a declaration about some king of material in the CDRom. That was it. Also , it was declared as a GIFT.
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Elektro wrote:
Why wouldnt it be legal?
Because loads of stuff is illegal in the tyrannical European Empire.
Anyway, if it was legal to go around shipping products to Europe then everything in Europe would be the same price as in USA. But in fact everything costs LOTS more in Europe.
Your friend will have to pay import taxes plus VAT though.
AHA!!! And how much is this "import tax"?
How much is the VAT on a new computer?
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It is not illegal at all.
However, Norwegian customs are very meticulous and take a while to process parcels. Being a parcel from the USA, there will be a customs charged levied.
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@ChaosLord
Apparently new computers in the USA cost 1/4 what they cost in Scandinavia
I don't know where you're getting these prices from, but I can't agree. At least I find the prices to be pretty much equal.
In fact I recently bought two 400GB Seagate HDDs from Denmark, 174,36 eur per drive.
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amigakit wrote:
It is not illegal at all.
It is illegal until someone pays the tax/bribe/offering/levy/charge/sacrifice to the king.
If it was not illegal at all then it would be like the USA and there would be 0 tax on the computer.
However, Norwegian customs are very meticulous and take a while to process parcels. Being a parcel from the USA, there will be a customs charged levied.
How much is the "customs charged levy"?
I mean are we talking $5.00 or $100.00 or $200.00 or ???
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Sometimes you have to pay customs, sometimes not. When Peg1
mobo arrived from Norway to here Finland they asked couple of
questions about it in custom. I said it was a gift and I had to pay
nothing. They examined the board a little but let it go.
When importing obviously expensive stuff you have to pay customs.
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The customs charge is usually the VAT on the item + an administration charge.
In the UK, couriers charge this admin charge to collect the VAT and it varies widely.
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@ChaosLord
I take it you have never bought anything from elsewhere than the US? If you buy items from a company in Europe, you will have to pay customs as well.
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or send it as "used items" between private.
i.e from here (Italy) to Switzerland, i've payed a lot. (through the Commercial custom)
I'll NEVER do again.
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@doctorq
If you buy items from a company in Europe, you will have to pay customs as well.
Not inside EU though. Inside EU you only pay the tax of the country you buy from (included in the price of the product).
Other cases include the normal import tax/customs mess.
In USA you can "cheat" by buying from another state (tax free) and end up paying no tax at all. There are some plans to fix this loophole (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2004-02-10-net-tax-coming_x.htm) though.
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Piru wrote:
In USA you can "cheat" by buying from another state (tax free) and end up paying no tax at all. There are some plans to.
That isn't cheating and it isn't a loophole. The constitution was written that way on purpose. And it has been upheld by the courts in every case for over 200 years. And we all pay 0% tax. For example I bought around $50,000 worth of brand new Amiga computers in my lifetime and paid 0% tax on it. Why did I pay 0% tax? Because it's the law.
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@Piru
Not inside EU though.
I know; in my opinion the only good thing about being a member of the European Union :-D
@ChaosLord
VAT and customs aren't the same thing. Your friend in Sweden or whereever he was could just as well buy the computer online, instead of you doing it. Your friend will pay the exact same amount of VAT as you will end up paying.
The only thing he has to convince the online shop about is to send the computer as a gift, but I'm guessing none will accept to send the items as a gift. If they do, your friend will end up paying the same amount as if he had you to send it over to you.
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Piru wrote:
In fact I recently bought two 400GB Seagate HDDs from Denmark, 174,36 eur per drive.
I haven't priced 400GB drives.
All I know is I bought a new 80GB drive a couple of days ago for $5.00 at the local store. My brother got one also.
2 weeks ago they had a 300GB Seagate drive for $90.00 at the same store.
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@ChaosLord
pricewatch.com says cheapest price $212 for the drive in question (ST3400832A). link (http://www.pricewatch.com/prc.aspx?i=26&a=17244)
Back when I ordered it it was $230 or so.
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ChaosLord wrote:
Elektro wrote:
Why wouldnt it be legal?
Because loads of stuff is illegal in the tyrannical European Empire.
Anyway, if it was legal to go around shipping products to Europe then everything in Europe would be the same price as in USA. But in fact everything costs LOTS more in Europe.
Your friend will have to pay import taxes plus VAT though.
AHA!!! And how much is this "import tax"?
How much is the VAT on a new computer?
Fine. But you better never order anything from outside US cause paying import taxes is illegal and therefore you'll be commiting federal crime and end up in Guantanamo Bay...
:roll:
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Shipping to Europe is legal, but the receiver generally has to sign a document, agreeing not to use the stuff for terrorism, etc.
The receiver has to pay customs fees for the goods (tarrifs vary depending on the type of goods), and then you generally have to pay "VAT" for it (though it's called "moms" in Scandinavia).
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Norway is in Europe, but not in the European free trade restrictions - its a rare European country that needs a Custom Declaration CN22 form for it.
Therefore there could be potential customs charges from parcels within Europe going to Norway.
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paying taxes on stuff going into a country or state if that ends up hapenning is not a bad thing. it costs money to ensure that a country/state whatevers borders are safe. safe from hazardous meterials, munitions, illegal wares etc etc. that money comes from the government and taxpayers unless the individuals transporting the stuff pay. the "european empire" isnt evil and neither is the "american empire" well at least on this point. what if there was no customs and you could bring weapons, drugs , biological agents anywhere you wanted and someone imported a nuclear bomb; you would complain then that the government did nothing to stop it. trust me its better this way.
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whabang wrote:
...the receiver generally has to sign a document, agreeing not to use the stuff for terrorism, etc.
Did Chief Wiggum push for that rule?
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the norwegian VAT is 25%->of main value not sure you pay that much but you pay alot. For instance i bought a mediator LT4 payed US$165.95 was TAXED US$42.3
having sayed this you dont ern much with importing stuff.
The thing is when i bought my BPPC\BVISION RAM etc a total 500$ but went trught tax free for some weird reson damn lucky i was.
adonay :-D
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Also , it was declared as a GIFT.
If it wasn't a gift, then that's likely to be illegal because you're avoiding the taxes business. I think ChaosLord could get around the taxes because it IS a gift. :-)
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>All I know is I bought a new 80GB drive a couple of days ago for $5.00 at the local store. My brother got one also.
>2 weeks ago they had a 300GB Seagate drive for $90.00 at the same store.
It's not cool to buy "fallen off the back of a lorry" stuff! :-o
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Of course it's legal!
Things you'll want to do though before it gets shipped.
1) Check what import duties (tax) you'll have to pay when it comes into the destination country. (you customs department will tell you)
2) Well thats abou it to be honest :-)
Get the person to ship it via FedEx or DHL (or some other big company), they've done this sort of thinga million times before and will give you all the forms you could ever wish to fill out .. trick is you need to get the shipper/seller to fill those forms in properly for you, alternativly you can pay for DHL to collect it from the seller, and they'll make sure it's wrapped up and the forms done correctly.
Also make sure the multiple copies of the documentation are on the outside of the box, and that they describe EXACTLY what is inside, state in numerous places on the docs that it's a SECOND HAND Amiga and you might get away with no import duties at all.
Just noticed the shipper is you .. makes it easier :-)
I had an SGI O2 with LCD shipped out from the states to the UK (bought via eBay), had one phone call from customs, paid them their bit of tax and that was it.
If you follow the rules, it's easy .. deviate from the rules and it gets harder.
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Doobrey wrote:
whabang wrote:
...the receiver generally has to sign a document, agreeing not to use the stuff for terrorism, etc.
Did Chief Wiggum push for that rule?
I think it was the department of homeland security... :-P
Just look at the sales aggrement if you buy a Dell-computer.
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@amigakit
Norway is in Europe, but it is not a member of the european union, that is why you have to fill out custom forms when shipping stuff there.
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@whabang
I noticed that when I bought my Dell.. So that effectively stops all terrorists from buying Dells, otherwise they would violate the agreement! :lol:
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Actually, If you violate the agreement, they'll force you (through legal instances) to send the computer back.
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That might actually be a tricky question, even if comparable computers are for sale in the destination country.
I've recently had to learn a little about USA export regulations. You'd have to talk to some customs person to get a solid answer regarding your particular harware to that particular country. The law is complex, and you'd really have to find someone that knows it enough to give you a definitive answer, and don't trust anyone here unless they work in USA customs or whatever other government agencies deal with that stuff.
Did you know that an employee in a USA office of an international company can NOT transfer the silicon/schematic design for an FPGA larger than 40000 gates capacity to an office of the same company but in a different country, unless there is an export exception license for that particular item? Yup.
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I cannot see why it would not be legal, but for norway i doubt the cost would be cheaper, because of our nazi toll customs.. First you have to pay the normal 25% vat to the gov, but then you also have to pay a fee to the customs and postal service for doing the toll job.. I have heard that people use a loophole by sending it as a gift, but i doubt that would work on such a big item as a computer.
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Your friend will have to pay import taxes plus VAT though.
AHA!!! And how much is this "import tax"?
How much is the VAT on a new computer?[/quote]
Here in norway it is 25% on everything with the exception of certain food items.. :-(
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ChaosLord wrote:
Elektro wrote:
Why wouldnt it be legal?
Because loads of stuff is illegal in the tyrannical European Empire.
Anyway, if it was legal to go around shipping products to Europe then everything in Europe would be the same price as in USA. But in fact everything costs LOTS more in Europe.
:lol:
I would hazard a guess that the reason that everything is more expensive here is because of higher taxes. And what do taxes fund? War in Ira..I mean hospitals, schools, infrastructure, etc
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ppc4me wrote:
>All I know is I bought a new 80GB drive a couple of days ago for $5.00 at the local store. My brother got one also.
>2 weeks ago they had a 300GB Seagate drive for $90.00 at the same store.
It's not cool to buy "fallen off the back of a lorry" stuff! :-o
I doubt it was stolen.
American retailers have kickass clearance sales.
Western Europe gets gouged big time on almost everything.
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Also better make sure it doesn't have an OS installed... Windows 2k, XP here has high encryption technology that is illegal to export outside of the US... I also recall something about Germany banning the disk defragmenter because it's made by a company owned by a "known Scientologist." :crazy:
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Do they ban Tom Cruise films too?
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I'm no expert but this is what I think I know about taxes:
Customs taxes or import taxes is an old way to regulate the market. It is mainly done to protect the companies of the country. It adds taxes on imported goods so that people prefer to shop from local companies rather than send money out of the country.
A lot of countries have had this kind of taxes until they have joined trade agreements with other countries. Like the EU, NAFTA and similar.
Some times special kind of goods get very high import taxes if the goods are in direct competition. For instance I believe both the EU and the US add high taxes to food from Africa or South America.
In additions customs are also used to regulate dangerous or illegal material being imported, like drugs, arms or similar.
As for any countries being more tyrannical than others, I don't think the EU is any worse than the US, and other countries might be even "worse" or more protective.
Value adding tax, or VAT, is generally added within a country to alter the price levels of goods. This both to regulate the usage of goods, to compensate for damages or costs infilicted by them or just as a convinient way to bring more money to the government and spread it on other social benefits.
This levels vary of course from country to country. Some countries have separate taxes in addition for "damaging" goods, like tobacco or liquor.
In Norway we've had very strict laws regarding alcohol, and still have high taxes. They are intended to lower usage and to spend the tax money for hospital bills or other damages caused on society.
I don't think people agree on wether it actually helps to get the usage/abuse down, as people are more likely to try to make their own alcohol or illegally import such things (or buy it from people who do).
We're seeing lowering taxes on import and export throughout the world and markets are getting more and more open as countries adapt to a global economy, but there are still very few countries that don't protect their own markets using this kind of taxation or restrictions.
As for sending a parcel from the US to Norway, you would probably sign a standard form stating its content and its price, and wether it's a gift or not. The recipient would get a notice that he has got a parcel and a request to process it thru customs, he can conviniently let the Postal service do that or choose some own methods. If it's a gift, I believe there will be no taxes added.
If it's a purchase he gets the usual VAT added (added to all goods bought in the country), and depending on the type of goods or price, gets another import tax added.
Currently we can import goods that are worth less than 200 NOK without any taxes added, at least this is true for online shopping. I'm not sure what the level is for travelling into the country with goods, as there are separate tax-free rules and similar.
I hope this answered some of the questions and that I'm not presenting incorrect statements ;)
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Cyberus wrote:
Do they ban Tom Cruise films too?
Why? thinking of moving there? ;-)