Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: CHR_ZD on November 09, 2005, 03:48:23 PM
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This OS is totally garbage. I tried to install Ibrowse but the software asked for MUI... then I installed MUI and re installed Ibrowse... well the prog still doesn't see muimaster library. What the heck!? Many installers ask to insert "name" volumes without letting you put in another volume or drawer. The Aweb program is unbelievably annoying and it doesn't even show a JPG image alone (it asks for JPGTMP volume). What the heck!?!?!? Is the os40 any different?
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Go back to OS1.3.3 then :-)
Maybe you should consider cleaning your harddrive a bit, or get the hang of how Assign works...
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Clean up the HD? This is a fresh OS3.9 installation. I don't have anything to clear. I'm sorry to say but windows xp is light years ahead of this Amiga OS. Does anyone know if the OS4 is more user friendly?
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The OS is working as it should do. If you install software that requires MUI then it tells you to install it first. If it's still not seeing muimaster.library then you haven't installed it properly.
If you don't like OS3.9 then don't use it. And I would suggest you learn how to use the operating system before badmouthing it!
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look. I installed the MUI thing. It did all alone so what am I supposed to do? You want to tell me that this is an advanced OS? Please gimme a break
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If you are having problems with a fresh install, I'm guessing that the fault is not at the OS, but more at the hardware not being setup correctly.
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I am running it under winuae and I did set up the hardware as in this doc
http://web.archive.org/web/20040226210834/http://home.t-online.de/home/thomas-rapp/os39uae.html
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@CHR_ZD
MUI is a third party patch for the GUI. It is not part of the operating system. And in OS 4.0 MUI is included as a third party add-on still so unless you check your user-startup file in S: I'm guessing you didn't install MUI properly or forgot to reboot after installing it.
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well it didn't ask for a reboot (did I have to guess this alone?)... I'll try
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Somehow I doubt that the installer for MUI didn't tell you that a reboot was needed; I'm guessing you just skipped right throguh everything it asked for, without even looking at the text, where it says you need to reboot.
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.. it works now. yet it asks for volume JPEGTMP to open a JPG under the browser. What is this?
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Look in the preferences for IBrowse. It's a temp library to store/download the images.
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The AmigaDOS command for doing a software reboot was not introduced until version 4.0 prerelease of the operating system so the general idea is to rerun the startup-sequence and user-startup files after they have been modified. This will correct your first problem since MUI adds several lines to the user-startup file that won't have been executed previously.
-edit- Dang you guys are fast. :crazy:
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@SamuraiCrow
3.Ram Disk:T> list Install3.1:C/Reboot
Directory "Install3.1:C" on Wednesday 09-Nov-05
Reboot 84 ----rwed 06-Jul-94 12:42:39
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Ok I guess it was introduced in 3.1 but the point is that MUI was designed for 2.04 and doesn't include the reboot command in its installer script.
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@SamuraiCrow
True.
The MUI installer does say this though:
"MUI was successfully installed in the drawer
Please reboot your machine before starting any MUI applications."
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I believe the MUI installer asks you to reboot before running any MUI applications, but doesn't reboot the machine automatically.
The reason for this is because an "ASSIGN libs: Path:to/mui/ ADD" command is added to the user-startup which allows MUI applications to find the MUI libraries.
I suspect you forgot to reboot after installing so the MUI assign hadn't taken effect yet.
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is there a better browser for this platform? what about mozilla?
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I don't think Mozilla is available for AmigaOS, but some body please correct me if I'm wrong. IBrowse is currently favourite I think.
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If you don't have the patience to LEARN about a new and different OS then go back to XP or get a Mac and run OS 10.4. They are more mature and have thousands of programmers to work on them to make them IDIOT FRIENDLY. The later Amiga OSes have been developed by a handful of dedicated and talented programmers that have worked for the love of this platform as much or more than any money they might have made from their efforts. Your complaint is about the program you are trying to load, not the 3.9 OS itself and again, Amiga programs are mostly done by a small group if not just one or two programmers that may, or may not have spent a large amount of time making the installation process IDIOT PROOF.
From your comments, you may not be the type of person that can appreciate what the Amiga is and what it can do. The Amiga computer of today is not for the masses that have little experience with setting up and tweaking computers to get advanced performance from less resources than multi-gigahertz processors and 1 to 2 gigabytes of RAM that can run the bloated and inefficient operating systems from Microsoft or Apple.
Like the man said, learn about what you are trying to use before you start calling it crap, or we will all just assume that you are the IDIOT I have mentioned above that should stick with XP or Mac OS 10.x
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@amigadave
Right on!
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Man. I was an Amiga user at the end of eighties and early nineties. I know what an Amiga is. I can say for sure that this OS 3.9 doesn't deliver any significant improvement over the WB 1.3 . As for the OSes to be "idiot friendly" you are completely wrong. Go study some ITC theory. If you think OSes have to be obscure and user unfriendly you have lost. This is the usual crap talking by people who think they are cool because they know how to run some tricky programs (not different from Linux users). Well, no, you are not cool. If the OS is not user friendly it means people who developed it must change their hobby/work to something which has less impact on other people. Eg. cooking an egg or something
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@CHR_ZD.
This OS is totally garbage.
Talk about an opening phrase! I dont think your going to get any quality of help here if you start your question by bad mouthing an OS that a lot of people here spend a lot of time both using / developing for. If i was you, and say, i wanted some help on a certain subject, i would think with more care before asking my question.
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I was not asking questions. I was just stating the OS is garbage cause infact it is. If you think you can compete in todays market with this kind of OS you have lost completely.
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Please, lets not turn this into a flame war or your thread will be locked. Amiga Os3.9, running on hardware from the 1990's, compete with modern OS? Depends. What do YOU want the OS to do? If your finding the OS cannot meet your demands, then use Windows XP. Or infact, try Windows95, that was written closer to the Amiga OS3.9 date, and lets see what happens. Most people use the amiga as a hobbyist machine, and a lot also have a modern day PC as a day-to-day computer. Remember how old the hardware/software is that your using. You can always wait for Amiga OS4.0 if you do want a more modern day amiga. A lot of amiga users are :)
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And to clarify,
look. I installed the MUI thing. It did all alone so what am I supposed to do?
You are asking questions.
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@CHR_ZD
If you think OS3.9 has to compete with modern OSes, then you have a screw loose somewhere....
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You are running Winuae: you can run any Amiga config you like...
If you like WB1.3 better; run that!
You say you don't need the features of the horrible OS3.9 then nobody is forcing you to. Just do the things you used to do in WB1.3 when you still had an Amiga.
But I do have to give it to:
The agressive tone of your posts does get you a lot of replies to your topic :lol:
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every single os has different install issues and every single one can have problems including programs not running as expected or at all.
i can understand your frustration. it would be great if there truely was a single click installation that would work 100% of the time and be flawless on any hardware setup. if you have installed windowsxp on as many machines as i have you would know that it doesnt work that way. same deal with linux or beos or even mac os.
coming to a machine enthusiast site not to ask how soething works or for help but to just bad mouth the machine is pretty rough. my older brother was trying to install windowsxp just a little while ago and was so pissed off he said he was going to throw the entire machine out ($1800) custom case pcix everything $300 video card etc.) i calmed him down and we got it installed properly with advice over the phone.
with advice over the forum we could help you.
even though you said some pretty harsh stuff some of us did
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Everyone in this thread needs to calm down a bit.
While I think the approach used by CHR_ZD is a bit improper, he does have some very valid points. OS 3.9, and presumably 4.0 can no longer be considered "user friendly" unless you are in fact willing to dedicate years of your life to learning the little eccentricities that make it special.
Every other modern OS, including Linux, now include most of the software you'll need, in an auto-install point and click fashion, right on the CD. AmigaOS is still just AmigaOS and if you want to actually do anything with it, you have to go through the same crap tribal ritual CHR_ZD did, trying to install 3 different programs just to get one damned thing to work.
I know my words and opinion won't be popular with most of the purehards here, but the original poster does have his points. The fact that 4.x still requires stupid crap like MUI (or whatever it's competitor was) rather than having it built into the OS as a standard for all developers to code to is (IMHO) ... well, the term pathetic comes to mind.
I might have understood it if OS4 was a direct port that was available to the public in 2001, but NOT after 5 years of development. I'm not trying to slam anyone here, so don't get your panties in a wad, I'm just pointing out facts. Hell, BeOS, Mac OSX, or even Windows XP didn't take 5 years to write and it still had publicly available and good hardware around when it did.
Now... On the other hand, people like Amigadave have a point, in that AmigaOS isn't a modern OS. It requires you to actually sit and wade through the now-obfuscated process to get even basic s*it to work. If you're not open minded, learning AmigaOS is incredibly frustrating and a real pain in the ass. If you are open minded, it comes easily.
However, expecting an Operating system from 1985 (or even OS 3.9's 1998/99) to work as flawlessly and user friendly as Windows XP and MacOSX is quite unrealistic. If you want to learn it, cool. If not, cool. Your choice.
Wayne
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By my understanding OS4 which has to be released yet will not fix these issues and won't be user friendly at all. I don't think it's a machine related problem but software related. And yes, I am telling you, this kind of OS can't compete on todays markets so if the OS4 will not be a total different story it will be a big flop from the beginning. (As it will be anyway since noone is going to change his modern PC with an overpriced amiga which can't even run a decent browser
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No-one is saying here that AmigaOS4 will be the next Windows. So please don't look at the Amiga that way.
The message people are trying to give you that part of the fun in using Amigas nowadays is playing around with the OS. For me that includes solving those user-unfriendly quirks.
I just regard my Amigas as point and clicks adventures :-P
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Some people enjoy tinkering and making things work. Others just want it to work and to not have to think about it. If you're not part of the former group, the Amiga may not be for you.
Me personally, I would have loved making things work 10 years ago. Now life is too short and there are too many other hobbies to go around.
Wayne
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while i can see where you are coming from i do not agree with your verdict. if this was the final release then yes there would be a major problem. it has problems nobody will dispute that but the work continues until it becomes what we want it to be.
this is only the first step in the resurrection of the amiga. the developers at hyperion do not have the resources and manpower of apple or microsoft so these things take immensely more time to implement.
now there was major changes between 1.3 and 3.1(3.9 is 3.1 with additional software bundled imo). visually it is noticable and functually it is noticable if you compare the two os versions. unfortunately commodore died and 3.1 was virtually unchanged until 4.0 and then it was just rewritten for use on ppc hardware. now that we are nearing the final release(hopefully)the next steps will be to improve the os. this is not to say there is no improvements already but instead improving on 4.0 and making it more user friendly.
if you want to get involved learn the os, identify what needs improvement, and help out by building programs to improve the os. we need all the help we can get.
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CHR_ZD:
Just wondering, but did you buy 3.9 not knowing anything about it? Considering the fact that you don't own an Amiga, I'm assuming you got a pirate copy (correct me if I'm wrong). So, not only do you come here to complain about a pirated copy which may be screwed up already, but you whine about installing things that you haven't even read the documentation for.
I certainly won't defend 3.9 which I think is a joke (minor fixes on the 1993 WB 3.1), but Windows is absolute {bleep}! If Windows is an example of a "modern OS", I'd rather live in the past. Almost every single day I find a new bug in Windows or Office (which I am forced to use at work). I write them down when I find them. I have a list of over 1000 bugs!
Windows is user hostile. Many times I have spent hours configuring Windows & Office, only to have it randomly change settings back to default. Settings are stored in the registry and 10 different locations, making it impossible to back them up.
Every time I use Windows, I feel like smashing the computer, setting it on fire and whipping it out the window. (..but this may limit my time with the firm ;-) )
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Yerrrrrrrrr proper flame war :flame:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Can this thread be locked before I die laughing please?
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amiga is dead. now back from the dead. we like undead. :madashell: :-D
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Maybe he should try and run his beloved XP or Tiger on a 486 or Performa! :-D
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@Wayne
Your right, he does have some valid points. But there is noexcuse for the way he puts them across. That sort of attitude will get him nowhere.
Perhaps hes just having a bad day, but he still a numpty muppet.
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CHR_ZD wrote:
By my understanding OS4 which has to be released yet will not fix these issues and won't be user friendly at all. I don't think it's a machine related problem but software related. And yes, I am telling you, this kind of OS can't compete on todays markets so if the OS4 will not be a total different story it will be a big flop from the beginning. (As it will be anyway since noone is going to change his modern PC with an overpriced amiga which can't even run a decent browser
finally someone that dare to say the truth among amigans... keep it coming!
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Userr Friendlynes is a relative word, means differnts things for different users.
Personally I've had less actual problem swith AOS then Windows.
With AOS you usually have an idea what is wrong, when I was noob Amiga user wayback I fixed what didn't work myself. Usually its simple since they different parts of the OS are easy visible on the HD. The Startup sequence and the user-staturup are easy to edit. And if you don't know what you are doing and destroys something its usually fixable without reinstalling the OS.
With Windows it either works or don't work and if it don't work you usually have no idead why and the error messages seldom help. :)
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Reacting to CHR_ZD's remarks the way some of you did, I believe is exactly what he's after.
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Windows and AOS are in NO WAY comperable, for many reasons one with common sense can understand easily...
and as for the others complaining about windows, I have one think to say: if you buy crappy pc parts it's not the OS to blame... I have been using pc's for 13 years, and EVERY single problem I had with windows was either from CRAPPY hardware (anyone remember the VIA KT266 chipset? not the KT266A , just plain 266) OR from users installing CRAPPY software/drivers or having no idea to use a pc so they screw it up... this also applies to amiga world... and really, you are so narrow-minded that you cannot see the obvious? if windows were not good enough, everyone would use linux, or os2, or whatever would come up... just my 2 cents
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I wonder why I keep reading threads like these.
Maybe because the outcome is always so clear.
Let's play with emo's
A -> :furious: blabla I think Amiga is crap
B -> :-x No it isnt how can you say that
A -> :rtfm: Yes look it is not modern and can't compete
B -> :madashell: What #$%$^@@$&&%$#@%@%^
C -> :inquisitive: Look boys he might have a point
B -> :shocked: but...but...
D -> :admonish: ...some pro amiga speech...
E -> :admonish: ...some anti amiga speech...
? -> :argue:
? -> :flame: :nervous: :destroy:
? -> :angry: :angry: :angry: <-- more join the show
C -> :-D Threads closed. This is enough for today
Yawn....I need to get a life.
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Damn,
If you're going to actually spell out the generic formula used for all Amiga forum posts (on all sites), then we're just gonna stop posting... No fair... :)
Wayne
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IS that a hint to lock the thread? Are we done now?
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
If you're going to actually spell out the generic formula used for all Amiga forum posts (on all sites), then we're just gonna stop posting... No fair... :)
haha that was not my intention. But I think this kind of thread is too common.
Lucky there are plenty of other threads about and I will not be spell them out all. Would take too long. This time however I could not resist the temptation.
As far as I am concerned 'nuff said'.