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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: gazsp on October 28, 2005, 02:02:34 PM
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The title says it all really :-)
I like the fact that the A3000 has SCSI built in and a flicker fixer.
Which one should I choose? Also, which graphics cards do you recommend?
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In my opinion, nothing beats an A4000 as far as overall compatibility, upgrade potential, and features go, especially if it's an A4000T. A3000 is pretty cool too, and you can do pretty much anything with it that you can with A4000 (other than AGA graphics), however it requires a bit more effort to make things work with it, but once you do get everything working, then you can have a system that's just as good as A4000, perhaps even better due to the built-in flicker fixer.
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It's just the flicker fixer and SCSI that I'm being sold on. Lack of AGA is a pain, but who cares if you're using a graphics card? :-)
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What do you want the machine for?
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gazsp wrote:
The title says it all really :-)
I like the fact that the A3000 has SCSI built in and a flicker fixer.
Which one should I choose? Also, which graphics cards do you recommend?
As the owner of more than one of each, I must say that it is really a "6 to 1 or half a dozen to another" toss up. They both have advantages that, in my opinion balance the arguement as to which is best. If we are talking stock with no expansion items, I would rate them in this order:
1. A4000T (only if it has built-in SCSI-2) because of AGA
2. A3000T because you get a FF/SD and SCSI + cool rareness factor (don't have this one yet, but looking)
3. A3000D same reason as A3000T without the cool rareness factor
4. A4000D last due to no SCSI or FF/SD and what I consider an ugly case design
For appearance, I think the A3000's have the edge over the A4000's. For building the ultimate Amiga, I think the A4000T is hard to beat as a starting point.
Picasso IV is tough to beat as top video card unless you add a PCI expansion and go with a Voo Doo 3, 4, or 5, which I have no experience with. The Picasso II in an A3000 is a nice setup as it has a passthrough and makes a single monitor setup easy, eventhough the Picasso II is not near the top in performance for Amiga video cards.
I have yet to tackle setting up my CyberVision video card on my PPC A4000 w/PPC 604/233mHz so can't comment on it's performance or ease of use yet. From what I have read, an ultimate Amiga has to have PCI and a Voo Doo video card.
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I want it for playing games and programming (mainly MUI / Workbench stuff).
I was thinking about getting a new PPC Amiga or Pegasos, but I don't like the current A1 hardware, and the Pegasos just doesn't have the same look or feel as a classic Amiga.
I have a PC as well which is my main computer (with WinUAE + OS3.9 :-)), plus an A1200, and an A500. I want a big box Amiga just for the expandability etc.
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gazsp wrote:
Lack of AGA is a pain, but who cares if you're using a graphics card? :-)
If you plan to play games, on A3000 you'll be limited to ECS ones. A graphic card has nothing to do with it as it's only used under Workbench and other applications.
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I gathered that much. Most of my games are A500 games anyhow.
I'd really like to get both :-)
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gazsp wrote:
I have a PC as well which is my main computer (with WinUAE + OS3.9 :-)), plus an A1200, and an A500. I want a big box Amiga just for the expandability etc.
Take the 3000. It's an adventurers computer.
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Take the 3000. It's an adventurers computer.
What a great way of describing it! I'm sold :-)
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No, dude, no!
If you are playing games and messing around with Workbench, get the A4000. You can do all that happily, and then one day if you find a PIV or an external scandoubler, you will have a super machine for your purposes. You don't need SCSI.
You can add a flicker fixer to an A4000.
You cannot add AGA to an A3000.
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X-ray wrote:
... and then one day if you find a PIV or an external scandoubler
:roll: :crazy: :lol:
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@Gazsp,
I've had an A3000D for a long time now, and just recently aquired an A4000D. FWIW, here's the opinions I formed of the two:
4000 pluses:
It has AGA (very nice).
It is roomier and seems to suffer less from heat problems than the 3000.
You only have to worry about the buster revision for Zorro III and shouldn't experience problems with expansion cards.
4000 minuses:
Many of the chips are soldered. The only socketed chip on mine is the buster. On some 4000's, even that is soldered along with chip ram.
Keyboard and mouse felt cheap (I'm not sure if they were the original ones).
It's a pain to disassemble.
3000 pluses:
Built-in SCSI.
Built-in flicker-fixer.
Nearly all the important chips (like CIA's) are socketed and easy to replace if they fail.
Low profile "slim" look about it.
3000 minuses:
No AGA.
Sometimes suffers from heat issues, especially if you put an accelerator in there.
VERY cramped inside.
It's also a pain to disassemble.
Depending on the revisions of buster, dmac, and ramsey, you might have problems with some expansion cards. Also, some expansion cards more than likely will NOT work properly no matter what you do (such as Fastlane Z3 --- my 4000 loves it, 3000 hates it).
At the moment they both have A3640's and 16MB of RAM. Except for the 4000 having AGA, I really do not see a difference between them when using them. They both feel about the same. I guess I'm still partial to the 3000, mostly because of the built-in SCSI and flicker-fixer. But either of them is a very nice machine to have.
-David
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Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to hold off buying a new (old? :-)) Amiga for now, until I have some more money. I'm still leaning towards the A3000.
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Want some more advice...? ;)
I'd go for the A4000T... anyday, anytime. Simply *the* Rolls Royce of Amigas. Best computer I've ever had. I still use it on a nearly daily basis.
I've had an A4000D, but sold it a couple of years ago. Once you get a CDROM cramped inside it, it's even tighter than the A3000.
I still have my old A3000, but I have to agree with the above that it's a real challenge to expand. The onboard SCSI-1 is dead slow so you would have to upgrade it anyway. Amber is nice, but in the end it's only ECS.
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@gazsp
well your in luck if you live in USA
I have an A3000 with 1084s monitor right here for sale. And I need to get rid of it right now
Low price for the bundle $130
Or anyone else want it? I may even consider a trade
Looking for An A600 with Viper 630 (The Square one)
or A1200 with 040
or an 060 card for the A1200
Subway USB card (with other items thrown in)
Graffiti gfx card
or anything you want to suggest
Ill also take Video Software such as ImageVision, VideoFX, XDVE, SUperPrompt, AmigaVision Pro, Bible Reader (CDTV)
of course some of these you willl have to throw in extra stuff :-)
EDIT: ok ...I should emphasize...I need money right now........so thats priority :-)
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Good Day,
I allready had a A2000 and a A1XE but I needed something to fill the gaps. Found a very nice A4000T on this site with a Toaster and Lightwave. This is way cool. Many good games are AGA, I'm glad I can use them now. The posabilities are now endless.
Chris :-D
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As you say you want to play games on it then you deffinitly want to go with the A4000 as there's no way of getting AGA to run on the A3000. It's simple as that.
Some might dissagree but I think the A4000 has a much better design than the A3000. Ok it's a bit taller but that makes room for the 5.25" unit witch is a must have (who has a machine without CD these days? want to have that in a box next to the machine?). It also proves to have better airflow so should be gentlier on demanding accelrators.
It does lack internal SCSI, true, and most accelrators can correct that and SCSI zorro cards can be found fo almost nothing so it's realy not an issues.
It does lack the scandoubler flickerfixer and that's probably the biggest setback as it can be hard to find. However, untill you do, why not run a 2 monitor system (1084 are also found for almost nothing)?
For graphiccard I'd say either a PIV or CV64 / CV64-3D. But personaly I think you should get a mediator and a Voodoo3 right away.
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My two cents: I'd get both. The A3000 is my personal favorite, due to it's design and since the A4000 is really a believe it or not scaled down A3000 w/ AGA. A3000s seem to go for about half the price of an A4000. Trouble with the A3000 is you have to find rare/pricey zip ram chips for m/b ram, you probably need to replace SuperBuster to rare/pricey Rev.11 to use Z3 properly (note: you may need to do the same for an A4000), and you need to do the int2 hack to use an accelerator with on-board scsi or the CyberstormPPC. The best games have rtg support so a graphics card in an A3000 makes it way better than AGA anyway. But there are a lot of AGA-only games and demos that make an A4000 desireable (or a cheaper second-hand A1200). Plus, that internal ide port makes a nice interface for a cheap fast ide cdrom (which you can connect the audio output from to the m/b). Put a PicassoIV in the A4000 and it tips the scales in its favor over a similarly outfitted A3000 with a lesser graphics card. But those babies are very $$$.