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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Amiduffer on October 25, 2005, 07:26:04 AM
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Is it possible to boot my Ami1200 from a Iomega Zip/Jazz drive?
I'm trying to figure a way around this dead IDE interface on my 1200, and I remember a lot of years back, the guy who ran the Amiga Crossing store in Southern Maine would boot his A1200 off a Zip drive to play XCom.
So how the heck would I go about setting up a Zip disk to do that?? I really miss my ImageFX!
Amiduffer
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1. Create a boot floppy with the necessary dos drivers and mountlist to mount your Zip drive.
2. Install Workbench on a Zip disk
3. Modify your boot disk so that in the startup-sequence, the first thing it does is mount the Zip drive, then reassign C:, S:, L:, LIBS etc etc to the corresponding folders on the Zip disk.
4. Put the zip disk and boot floppies in the drives. The floppy will transfer the system folders to the Zip disk and then should boot from that.
I haven't actually tried this, but it should work. If you need help with the assigns etc, have a look at a 3.5 or 3.9 Emergency Disk as it does exactly the same thing (reassigns the system folders to folders on the CD).
HTH
Mark
--EDIT
Just for clarification, you can't boot directly from the Zip drive. The only way to do this would be to modify the kickstart ROM to include native support for Zip drives.
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@Amiduffer
You need Phase5/DCE accelerator with bootable SCSI interface (1230-IV/1260 + SCSI Kit, BlizzPPC SCSI models at least) and SCSI Zip/Jazz drive. Then just partition/prep the zip disk just like ordinary HDD (SCSIConfig or HDToolBox). Works fine.
However, if you have bootable SCSI interface, why not use real SCSI hdd or SCSIDE then... :-)
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Well, all I have available to me is:
Blizzard 68040/50mhz without SCSI interface
SquirrelSCSI, which I'm not sure is bootable from.
Your instruction were a little difficult to follow, but I'll try them.
Amiduffer
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But surely you can't use an IDE Zip/Jazz as you say your IDE bus is duff ? That does only leave the SCSI option unless you can find a replacement mobo :-(
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Since the IDE interface is dead and he didn't specify that he had a SCSI controller, I'm guessing that he is connecting the ZIP drive through a parallel port???
@Amiduffer
Can you confirm how your Zip drive is connected?
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Hmm, also it seems to me possible to boot from a pcmcia ram card ? I remember seeing the pcmcia option at the early startup menu of a1200. has somebody tried this ?
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I thought PAR zip drives didn't work on the Miggy?
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it works, u need only little/easy to dyi adapter :crazy:
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countzero wrote:
Hmm, also it seems to me possible to boot from a pcmcia ram card ? I remember seeing the pcmcia option at the early startup menu of a1200. has somebody tried this ?
Yes. It works great on my A600.
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Oh no, it's not an IDE Zip drive, it's the external model, and I haven't hooked it up yet, I got home too late last night to bother doing anything except collapse on the bed.
It's got a standard 25pin cable that came with it and a bunch of disks. Doing these kind of things makes me nervous.
For the curious, which should I hook it to? Directly to the SquirrelSCSI or to the Parallel port?
Amiduffer
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First thing to do is confirm if it's a parallel port version or a SCSI version. Connecting it to the wrong port can't be good either for it, or the Amiga.
The SCSI model should have 2 25pin ports on the back. I think one says "zip" and the other has a picture of the SCSI symbol - an arrow pointing inside a square rotated about 45°
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Only way to actually "boot from zip" and not from floppy and then onto the zip would be to implement some kind of flash into the A1200. Only one I know of is connected to the PCMCIA port so that's no good... perhaps there's a hardhack available somewhere?
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Matt_H wrote:
First thing to do is confirm if it's a parallel port version or a SCSI version. Connecting it to the wrong port can't be good either for it, or the Amiga.
The SCSI model should have 2 25pin ports on the back. I think one says "zip" and the other has a picture of the SCSI symbol - an arrow pointing inside a square rotated about 45°
I think it's a parallel (check, looking online, I can confirm it's a parallel) port version, it has the 2 25pin ports on the back, but one one of them has a printer symbol and "printer" above it, which I would assume would be to connect to the parallel port, and then to the printer. I'm surprised they would make those kinds of different systems.
Does that mean it won't work for me?
Amiduffer
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Yes it will work. You have to build an interface which connects to the parallel port in order to make it work. Go to aminet and search for ppazip to find the details. I haven't actually looked at the schematics but this is from the readme:
The Iomega ZIP 100 drive is available with a choice of either a SCSI
or a parallel port interface. Unfortunately the parallel version could
not be used on an Amiga - until now!
This project consists of both hardware and software - a small interface
that connects to the Amiga's parallel and joystick ports, and a driver
file which causes the ZIP drive to operate like a standard SCSI device.
Once you have built the interface and got your zip drive working, you can do what I suggested in my first post (using a boot floppy to boot from the zip disk).
Mark
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MarkAshley wrote:
Yes it will work. You have to build an interface which connects to the parallel port in order to make it work. Go to aminet and search for ppazip to find the details.
Once you have built the interface and got your zip drive working, you can do what I suggested in my first post (using a boot floppy to boot from the zip disk).
Mark
Hell's bells. That would be pretty wild if I could finangle something like that together. I'll check it out, I got nothing else to lose, except a doorstop that looks like an Amiga1200.
Amiduffer
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Well, this will be a little tricky...
The only way I've gotten files off the Aminet is to use the office PC, save it on a 720k IBMformated disk, and use crossdos to then transfer it to my Ami. That's when I had a HD. I have currently, only my 3.1 WB disks to boot up with, and for the life of me, can't remember where CrossDos was or how I got it. Didn't CrossDos come included with 3.1??
I this doesn't work, could someone mail me an Amiga formated disk with the ppazip program and files unpacked, I'll send you a $ for your troubles.
Amiduffer
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Yes I believe the crossdos filesystem and PC0 filesystem are on the Storage3.1 floppy. Just copy the files to the relevant locations on your Workbench disk and you can mount PC0 from your Workbench disk. You can then use your IBM formatted floppy to transfer the file to your Amiga and view the file.
Please keep us up to date with how you're getting on - I for one would be really interested to hear if you manage to pull this off! :-)
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Doh! All you had to do was look in the instruction manual, and there's a whole chapter on crossdos.
Guess I'll give it a look tonight!! I've got the disk and the file off aminet so here's crossing my fingers \/
Amiduffer
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There are two version of those Zip drives, the normal one and the "plus" version, that actually says Plus in yellow on the front.
It has also a switch in the back to select the id from 5 to 6. That one works both in parallel mode and in SCSI mode with the same cable.
Regarding PCMCIA booting, ca I hook a Flash hard disk there and use it as a hard disk, or only ram/rom cards work there ?
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AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH Crap! The crossdos isn't functioning! Gad!! So damn close.
I put the PC0/PC1 into the proper directory, clicked on em, and it says they're mounted, but, a PCdisk I've used before to transfer files isn't showing up, or even a DOS5 boot disk that i've used with PCTask isn't showing up. I must be missing something!!
Any ideas?
Amiduffer
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1. Did you put CrossDOSFileSystem in L:?
2. Is the diskette double density?
3. If yes to 1 and 2, try putting a diskette in the drive then formatting PC0:. In my experience, formatting on the PC doesn't work with CrossDOS, I always have to format it on the Amiga first.
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quote]
MarkAshley wrote:
1. Did you put CrossDOSFileSystem in L:?
2. Is the diskette double density?
3. If yes to 1 and 2, try putting a diskette in the drive then formatting PC0:. In my experience, formatting on the PC doesn't work with CrossDOS, I always have to format it on the Amiga first.[/quote]
Uhhhhhhhhhhh.
I'm not sure about CDFS in L:, I'll get back to you on that 8) Everything used to be automated on my HD, so that all I had to do was click on a menu choice, now, it's like the old days of my A1000, lots of disk swapping.
yes, the disk is DD.
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Once you're booting from your zip drive the disk swapping won't be an issue, as it will be as though you were booted from a hard drive.
You need the CrossDOSFileSystem in L:. PC0: won't work without it. Check this and let me know.
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YeeeeeHAAAAA!! One hurtle cleared! I put CrossDOSFilesystem in L: and BAM! the disk showed up, just like it should.
BUT!!!
Trying to unpack that sucker turned out to be a major hassle. LHA did'nt seem to want to unpack the files. It would state that it was successful, and no files would be unpacked. Then after ALL sorts of combinations, it finally spit them out.
And looking at the diagrams, it doesn't look too bad. I just have to find a joystick connector, a box for the parallel connector, wire, and some time. Apparently, if you hook the wires wrong, you can kill the CIA chip, so I want to be very carefull.
Then I have to, somehow, cram the three driver files into my already (nearly full) workbench disk. I guess some files will have have to get voted off the island. 8)
But, the moral to be learned, is, where on the planet, can you run an operating system off a 780k diskette? I think you know the answer ;)
Amiduffer
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Yeeeaaaahhhhh, well done :-)
I've got my miggy all set up again now so I'll have a look at the schematic tomorrow and see if there's any hints I can offer.
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Yeeeaaaahhhhh, well done :-)
I've got my miggy all set up again now so I'll have a look at the schematic tomorrow and see if there's any hints I can offer.
Thanks. I'll need a little help in translating the schematic into amiduffer. 8)
For instance, it lists
1-8 (zip drive pins)
0
|
|
0
1-8 (Parallel port pins)
Does that mean that you connect 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, etc.
Amiduffer
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I assume you're looking at buff.iff and nobuf.iff.
Yes where you have 2-9 on the Amiga side and 2-9 on the Zip side, that means pins 2 - 9 are connected straight through from the Amiga to the Zip drive.
I don't know whether you need the buffered or unbuffered version. If you're able to, I would build the buffered version just in case the unbuffered doesn't work.
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MarkAshley wrote:
I assume you're looking at buff.iff and nobuf.iff.
Yes where you have 2-9 on the Amiga side and 2-9 on the Zip side, that means pins 2 - 9 are connected straight through from the Amiga to the Zip drive.
I don't know whether you need the buffered or unbuffered version. If you're able to, I would build the buffered version just in case the unbuffered doesn't work.
Ok, I'll give it a try, if you can help me decipher the schematic. The unbuffered version is about enough for my skill level, but the buffered version is something I've never attempted to try before. It's the kind of language I haven't got the hang of yet. I assume I'll have to pay a visit to Radio Shack soon. As soon as I get the stuff together, let's put it together :hammer:
Amiduffer
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If you are a confident solderer, then the buffered version will be easy. When you go to RS get the components for the buffered version, and also a 14 pin DIL socket for the 7407 IC (so you don't have to solder it directly and risk damaging it). You will also need some veroboard (copper stripboard) and I can easily convert the wiring diagram from ppazip in to a stripboard layout including the correct pins to connect to the 7407.
If however you are not confident to do this, go for the unbuffered version as it does not require any components or striboard soldering, it's just soldering wires to connectors.
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Man, I really scammed out on some parts at Weird Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale. It's geek heaven. If you're in Silicon Valley, it's worth a visit, I even saw a A2000/Toaster for sale there once. Now I just need to go find the buffer chip and capacitor.
Now a have a few other questions about the schematic.
from Par18-25-------------18-25Zip right below, both the capacitor and buffer chip are connected from Par14, my question is, do you have to connect the Cap. & Chip to each of the wires 18-25
and
Par 5 6 Zip
11-----|>-------16
Par 3 4
12-----|>-------1
Par 1 2
13-----|>-------17
Joy 9 8
6 -----|>-------14
what do the right pointing triangles symbolize and the purpose of the numbers to the left and right above them. That's about it. Thanks for your time.
Amiduffer
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Have a look at this:
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/parallel/parallelamiga.html
As you can see 18-25 are ALL grounds. If I remember correctly, you don't need to connect them all. Try it with only one connected and see if it works.
If the adapter doesn't work then you may need to connect all of them. Jusdging by the diagram they are all connected in parallel to the capacitor and pin 7 of the 7407 IC. However, I really don't think this is necessary.\
EDIT:
I've just rethought this, and there are 8 data pins (2-9) and 8 ground pins (18-25). This makes me think they are all required to be connected, otherwise it will be unable to transmit on any of the data lines that do not have a corresponding ground. Since they are shown as connected in the circuit diagram, you should connect them.
I don't know what the triangular symbols mean on the circuit diagram. They look like logic gates, and the fact that they have numbers next to them suggests to me that they are meant to connect to the 7407. You may want to check with the author before building the device, assuming he is still contactable.
EDIT:
I have just confirmed that thos triangular symbols are transistors within the 7407 IC. So just connect it to the pins as shown in the diagram.
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Ok, thanks for all this help. This shouldn't be so bad once I can actually get some time to GET the materials and put them together. :inquisitive: It looks like a fun project.
I hope I can borrow my friends digital camera so I can post a picture of the final product.
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SOrry to interfere, but this can be useful.
The 7407 is an open collector buffer, so to make it work you will need a 1k resistor connected between the output and +5V (this resistor is named pull-up resistor).
Maybe will be better to use a 74244 or 74245 because they can drive more lines (8) per package.
Hope it helps and is not redundant/off topic :-)
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Thanks for the info hppacito. I wonder why this is not in the original schematic? Maybe it's taken care of by the Parallel port's circuitry? I would suggest building it as designed, and if it doesn't work then try using the pullup resister.
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The treasure hunt was partially successfull! :banana:
I located:
Jumper Box
D25 plug
D25 socket
D9 plug
1uF capacitator
None of the Radio Sacks in Oakland had buffer chips or DIL sockets. A couple of electronic stores in Berkeley were recomended, and hopefully, I'll be able to be able to spend a little time up there. Wish me luck. :-)
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Why not try the unbuffered version first?
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Hmmmm :inquisitive:
I think it'll be the mess of unsoldering everything if the unbuffered doesn't work. :-D
Better safe then sorry. Hmmm?
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I made and used several of the unbuffered version back in the day. Used them mostly on my A1200, but also CD32, A500, and A2000. Never had any problems with the unbuffered version and never noticed any difference with the buffered version.
I also made a boot floppy that only had a few files on it and it initially assigned everything to the Zip disk and then took off from there. ie assign c: Zip:c etc. then when loadwb was called it loaded from the Zip.
Basically did the same thing you want to, using a parallel port Zip drive as a hard drive. Just had to have the floppy in the drive initally is all. Ah, the good old days :-)
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amigaguy wrote:
I made and used several of the unbuffered version back in the day. Used them mostly on my A1200, but also CD32, A500, and A2000. Never had any problems with the unbuffered version and never noticed any difference with the buffered version.
Ah, the good old days :-)
Well, I'm looking forward to better days too. :-D
Ok, Mark suggested I go with a buffered version, and I had a hankering to try my hand at putting something together from scratch, so to speak. Especially, a project that's a little more complicated than soldering a wire together. I have all the componants I need to make an unbuffered connector, so that will be my project for Sunday, if I can't get the time during the week. :hammer:
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Good luck Amiduffer. Let us know how you get on! :-)
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Don't forget to double check the circuit, just to be sure that all connections are were they should be. Brw, don't overheat the IC, better use sockets for them.
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Well....
my first attempt, would best be described as, ummm
messy. :roll: :oops:
It's like using muscles you haven't used in awhile. I haven't soldered in years!! But, I quickly caught on.
The current connectors aren't usable, but, luckily, I found this old electronic store in Berkeley (been around since the 50's) and got some 25pin male/female connectors for a couple of bucks. So, I'll try again tonight. :hammer:
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Here's the latest bulletin from the front lines... dit dit ditdit. :-)
[color=0000ff]Attempt #2[/color][/u]
I didn't get much sleep last night, but I got ALL of the straight connections soldered together with no problems. The 2-2, 3-3, etc.
Next is stripping wire in lengths to connect the odd connections since the supplied wire that came with the box isn't long enough.
Then, hooking up the joystick connector. Make sure the wire is the right length!!
Keep your fingers crossed! :-D :-D :-D
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More wires soldered. All that's left is to solder the 9pin to the wires connected to the main unit and it'll be finished!:nervous:
I'm surprised I didn't burn my fingers :shocked: I had to hold the wires just milimeters from the iron.
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Ok, here we go!!! :inquisitive:
All wires connected.
[color=008000]check![/color][/b][/i]
Proper files in their relevent places on the workbench disk.
[color=ffa500]Check!![/color][/b][/i]
Zip drive connected and turned on
[color=800000]Check![/color][/i]
Turn computer on
[color=ff0000]Check!!![/color][/b][/i]
aaaaaaaaaaannnnddd :-o
nothing :evil: :angry: :madashell: :getmad: :boohoo: :ranting:
Ok, let me look back here, ahhh, a wire came loose. Ah me, more work to do.
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Someone just figured out how to format text in his posts :-)
How you getting on, you must have resoldered that wire by now :-D
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I have to do more than that. It came loose because the joystick wires barely reached the port and I had to stretch things more then I should have. I have to cut new wires now and unsolder the one's connected. Bleah!! :-P
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[color=ff0000]Yeee[/color][color=ffa500]HAAAA![/color][/b][/i]
:lol: :-P :-o :-) ;-) :idea: :roflmao: :laughing: :laugh:
It works!!!!
And by putting the drivers in my CDboot floppy, I have access to my CDROM drive.
Now I have to figure out what to put on the ZIP disk and how.
Whew!!
Thanks guys. You've been a ton of help.