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Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: filson on March 21, 2003, 07:37:23 PM

Title: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 07:37:23 PM
What are the chances of a Java 1.4 port to AOS 4?
I would love to see/use that, and if it (AOS+Java port) is stable it would be very much easier to push AOS for enterprices.
They usualy rely on RISC processors anyway.
Would feel a little corny booting into Linux for work, turning to the PC for games and tinkering?! with Amiga?!
The same way, I might be able to run on an Amiga at work showing off some kewl stuff and being wicked at the PC gays :-) checking out the new horse.

If anyone would think about it, then I'd love to do some serious testing on it. But my C exp = null, so I can't do the port my self. :-(
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 07:40:59 PM
Oh, btw:
Java v1.4 has now hardware fullscreen support with full access to GFX accelerator memory.
mmm.. cross platform demo coding :-)
We could spawn a new contest at the parties, finaly bringing out the kewl stuff computer wide.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 07:51:06 PM
Sun has apparently made some optimizations in their solaris version that should support multitreading and syncronization in a far better and faster way than on MS/Linux. These optimizations are made for the UltraSPARC III processor.
We should be able to implement similar features optimizing usage of SIMD in the altivec capable processors, in regards to math and I/O and we already have a PPC linux version to sneak peak at :-)
Come on guys, we realy need this.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: JurassicCamper on March 21, 2003, 07:57:25 PM
You have to account that one off Amiga's partners is TAO.
If OS4 Materialises and If the DE gets hosted in the future sometime around OS4.2 then that brings a Java Engine anyway.
Why reinvent the Wheel ?

Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 08:02:26 PM
Have no intention to do so. :-)
Didn't know about the intended port from Amigas side.
Just saw the need and the ability for me to contribute to the greater good of Amiga.

when is AOS 4.2 planed to launch ? 6 months after AOS 4.0 comes out, or don't they have like a set schedule for those things?
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: JurassicCamper on March 21, 2003, 08:06:25 PM
when its ready ;-)
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: Loki1 on March 21, 2003, 08:08:40 PM
I have my doubts that the DE will ever run on anything!  The SDK for Windows/Linux is
NOT the AmigaDE, just a developer kit for Intent.


I won't be holding my breath for DE support in OS4.2.

Loki ;-)
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 08:10:01 PM
In any event, it would be the easiest ported software whenever the Java engine was up and running :-)

And then we could run stuff like Eclipse from IBM or SunOne or Tomcat (apache webserver).

Eclipse and Tomcat would be a major boost. Full JSP/Servlet support and stable as ... in a snap.
And Eclipse got some realy kewl features like refactoring and realtime code analisys, with all sorts of nice plug-ins for every programming language we could ever dream of.

Wasn't this the whole idea that Amiga inc. came with?
To pull in the developers first so the users could get some soft to use?
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: Kronos on March 21, 2003, 08:22:26 PM
..... and the JAVA-VM in Intent is not anywhere near
comparable to other JAVA-VM for desktop-OSes.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 08:22:54 PM
@Loki1

Well if it's going to be like any other "promised" support, it's going to be up to the Amiga users anyways, so all you gotta say is : Yay, or Nay to Java 1.4 support under Amiga OS 4.0.

If ppl are smart anough to realize the potential and ponder about why Scott McNeily are still running Sun against .Net we should be there too.

I'm a pro Java developer and I see more cool stuff comming to Java everyday than my peer C developers can round up in a month.

With a Java distro for Amiga, it'll be so much easier to say to your boss "I got a kewl RISC machine for You that runs Java 2. Why don't You go scrap that x86 that you are borred with anyways?"
Latency is everything in enterprice environments and if AOS are as fast as they say it is, then we can easily compete with the win/linux platform, in those areas that don't mind spending the extra buck.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 08:26:39 PM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
..... and the JAVA-VM in Intent is not anywhere near
comparable to other JAVA-VM for desktop-OSes.


We are not going into MS style with Java. That would axe the benefit in the first place. Besides, their extensions are totaly rediculous.

sun was hard pressed just to force them into adding java 1.1 into XP sp1. thats not the way.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: Kronos on March 21, 2003, 08:29:28 PM
@filson

No I'm not talking about M$-JAVA here ....

The VM on Intent is only a rather version of "personal JAVA",
nothing compared to the latest spec from SUN.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 21, 2003, 08:40:54 PM
@Kronos

hmm, not interested. whats the point in the port if it only supports System.out.println("Hello World");  :-D

Just saw that one of the 7 official benchmarks AMD supports for its new Opteron processor is a Java webserver, SPECJBB.
Java isn't the little "applet" thingy anymore :-)
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: Kent on March 21, 2003, 11:11:19 PM
I would accept nothing less of a full JDK running version 1.3.1 or higher.  The enhanced personal edition with limited swing is fine and dandy for Applets but nothing serious in the world of real programming with Java.  Tomcat won't run without a full JDK, and version 5 will require a minimum of JDK v1.4.  There are many programs which will not run without a minimum of JRE version 1.3 due to the enhances in Applets that use Swing and high level RMI controls.  The Java personal edition is nice, don't get me wrong, but I have a need for a full JDK.

:pint:
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: jeffimix on March 22, 2003, 01:05:39 AM
Well it seems to me...
AmigaOS4 has perfect emulation for all non-hardware banging apps right? Why wait for OS4 to start porting things, just make them hardware independent... much like Commodore said to from the beginning.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: PulsatingQuasar on March 22, 2003, 08:49:12 AM
Well, there is high possibility that we will get Java now the source is more accessible. It's not as closed as before.

I think getting a good webbrowser to use Java might be handy aswell. Combi Mozilla + Java might raise a few eyebrowse in the Linux and Windows communities!
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: filson on March 24, 2003, 10:09:33 AM
Quote
AmigaOS4 has perfect emulation for all non-hardware banging apps right? Why wait for OS4 to start porting things, just make them hardware independent... much like Commodore said to from the beginning.


so you say that the AOS 4 dev kit can compile PPC code on a x86? at some point we have to hit the hardware. even basic methods like System.out.println() makes a system dependent call, as well as all the error loggin. The garbage collector is also system dependent.
But hey, I don't develop for AOS 4 so in this regard, I don't know sh.t. :-)
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: El_Duduarino on April 01, 2003, 02:34:47 AM
Java is a must. OS4 will be soooooo much more enticing to a broader range of people if it has java support.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: on April 01, 2003, 02:49:57 AM
To clear things up:

The Java engine in Intent is completely current but only to the PJava (Personal Java) specification. This is intended for embedded computing devices, not the desktop.

Creating a Java 1.4 port to AmigaOS would be a great but is a large task. It also breaks into two major efforts

1) port the 'JVM' or Java Virtual Machine to run the Java byte codes. Also, if speed is desired a PowerPC Just-In-Time compiler would also have to be done. The PowerPC JIT compiler may already be available, I'm unsure.

2) Port the AWT/Java2D (Abstract Windowing Toolkit). This basically maps Java graphics to the OS graphics. This is _NOT_ a small task.

It is an interesting question though...DE or OS4? You could port it to either, I just wonder how long it's really going to be before we se AmigaDE in the AmigaOS.

Also, forget HW acceleration. Even on Windows the only Java2D features that are HW accelerated are 'rectangle' and 'bit-blit'.

It would be nice to have but it'll require a serious coordinated effort. You're not going to have a lone-coder crank this out in six months.
Title: Re: Java 2 v1.4 for Amiga OS 4
Post by: El_Duduarino on April 01, 2003, 03:11:38 AM

Quote
Also, forget HW acceleration. Even on Windows the only Java2D features that are HW accelerated are 'rectangle' and 'bit-blit'.


Fuzzy, I was sure there is a Java 3d API that supported HW accelleration..

Anyway you are definatley right it would be no small task, and there would need to be an independent contractor to do the work, however if TAO/whoever have made a cut down version, then surley they would see the benefits/$$$ that would come from a full implementation... I know I can.