Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: xaccrocheur on March 17, 2003, 02:28:11 PM
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http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/dec02/12-18pocketpc.asp
I'm really confused by this article.
Quotes such as "I recently took my son to a children's concert and was quietly playing some of the games from the pack on my Pocket PC Phone Edition. " Made me feel bad.
Not so much for realizing that Bill is a poor father 8-) :-P but more for reading this *blatant flattering lowtech advert* towards erm.. What should I say here... Plain reality, The enemy ? :-? :-?
Others like " The cool thing is that with a Pocket PC and an Amiga Anywhere Game Pak, you have a device that is better than Gameboy and an excellent organizer" Made me YELL ! This is STUPID ! False at best !
I mean, did I miss something ? I though Amiga just wanted to logically enter the mobile market, partnering with the right guys, Sharp, Symbian and such, but this is...
Did you use a Microsoft product recently ? Let alone the moble crap they pathetically try to push with no succes, the actual MSN/MSIE/WinXXX is really containing the WORSE visions of what computing should really be.
I have tons of *hands on*, work stories proving, demonstrating this.
Maybe I'm a bit... Well no, I'm plain furious. :evil:
pX
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Hmm, I read "Bill" and "www.microsoft.com/..." and thought you spoke of Bill Gates. But then it was Bill McEwan ...
:-P
(PS. Confusing when he speaks about Amigas "rich history in video and film work" in the context of the DE stuff, isn't it?)
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I don't know why they make Cards for PocketPC
I talked to some PocketPC owners...
The most of them say that it's crap...because it crashes sometimes like a normal Windows PC...
(Blue Screen)
Where are the ctrl+alt+del keys on a Mobile Phone
or PocketPC ? :-)
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I don't think this is much of a surprise. Bill Mc... comes from Gateway, for goodness sake. He was much more of a company man than Collas; hence his final position at Amiga when it was owned by Gateway.
What does surprise me, though, is the beating that Bill Buck takes for all the opposite reasons. For all of his sins-- real and imagined-- he has stuck with this platform for a number of years. He pretty clearly believes in an alternative computing answer as opposed to some path toward integration into the microsoft mainstream.
Speaking strictly for myself, I think that the motivation behind alternative OS's is twofold:
1. Yesterday I had to load office xp on my daughter's computer only a couple months after she purchased it. The reason for loading, of course, is that she loaded some fax software that came with a modem and windows had a fatal problem with it. Anyway, I enjoyed the priviledge of spending a Sunday night reloading the OS and the software AND having to answer the question TWICE: "How many computers do you have this program loaded on, sir?" That, in my mind, is the number one reason for an alternative OS.
2. Secondly, the incredible challenge of fixing the registry in the event that its sensibilities have been offended is indicative of a design flaw so arrogant, deep and basic that I find it impossible to forgive.
Anyway, after that long tirade, I just want to take my hat off to Bill Buck for sticking with an alternative OS based on what most of us agree was a very fine product in AmigaOS. (MorphOS is a salute and a continuation of the ideals of that product -- as is OS4, by the way.)
If anyone thinks that Buck has mad a ton of money-- or any money yet-- on this product, the thought must come from madness. I am very greatful to him for supporting this site and ann. I am looking for the same support from AInc.
I would like to criticize him for making the product difficult to buy in this last round of selling (I think I tried a dozen times to buy on Pegasos USA without success), but he seems to have sold all the product that he could make. So I won't level that objection.
Anyway, I do agree with the first post in this thread. I wish that all of us who attend productions of any kind with our kids would leave electronic gadgets at home; and I wish that Bill M... had some more engaging idea of what is interesting about alternative computing. I think Buck deserves credit for a focus.
RLFrost
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Anyway, after that long tirade, I just want to take my hat off to Bill Buck for sticking with an alternative OS based on what most of us agree was a very fine product in AmigaOS. (MorphOS is a salute and a continuation of the ideals of that product -- as is OS4, by the way.)
But what is the DE then?
If anyone thinks that Buck has mad a ton of money-- or any money yet-- on this product, the thought must come from madness. I am very greatful to him for supporting this site and ann. I am looking for the same support from AInc.
Hmm, I have a feeling that they (AInc) are more into "backstabbing" the old longtime community sites rather than supporting them ...
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Well i agree with everyones comments, but surely any Amiga exposure is a good thing. Who cares what they are talking about as long as we get an AmigaONE machine and OS4, and in addition attract new Amiga users.
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> Hmm, I have a feeling that they (AInc) are more into "backstabbing" the old longtime community
> sites rather than supporting them ...
And I have a feeling you can't back that up at all. For the record, AInc DID support Amiga.org for quite a while.
I must say I don't get some people's animosity towards McEwen. I guess hardworking people trying to keep their company alive just aren't fashionable this year. Perhaps if he started making public statements about the Pegasos not working as promised, that Ralph Schmidt didn't graduate from high-school, and that people supporting Genesi are morons, you would like him. Or maybe if he spoke very patronizingly to the general manager of Epic before challenging him to a duel testing PocketPC hardware versus a Palm. Or something like that.
Kay
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and people call wayne a sellout for letting Genesi advertise on this site :-D I wonder what you would say if Microsoft wanted to advertise on this site?.... 'buy Windows CE/IPaq combo and get DE for free!!!" (or some such nonsense)\
I agree, I dunno why some people dislike BBRV, has he acted perfectly?, no. Is he the 'BEST" man for the job?, maybe not(in some peoples opinons).
does he try HIS BEST at what he's doing?, I would say "DEFINITLY". He's done an excellent job on (from what I can tell) a fairly modest budget, bringing a custom motherboard and a next-generation AmigaOS replacement/compatible OS to the table and offers it at a decent price.
I think he's trying his best to get his product to the table and for all his faults he gets the job done, wich 'in the end' matters more then all the pretty 'sweet' talk that you can shake a stick at.
I say give credit where credit is due and stop bieng hipocritical.
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Yay! Kay is in da house.
Now all you ranters, go sit in a corner. :-)
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not me!
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@Kay
I'm sorry, I don't have the least bit of animosity toward Bill M... as a person-- or as an executive, for that matter. I just happen to disagree with his approach to computing. Please disagree with any of the substance of my comment that you wish-- even call me a jerk or a moron if need be-- but don't put words in my mouth. What I did say was that Bill Buck deserves some credit for his unwavering support of a desktop AmigaOS-like (if you wish) alternative. I did NOT say that I have the least personal animous toward Bill Mc...
If he were to call me a moron or a saint it wouldn't change my opinion of the furious pursuit of games a whit. I suspect that personally Bill Mc... is a perfectly nice man with whom I disagree.
RLFrost
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I have to agree with Kay and mips_proc.
Then there's always the deeper political issue too; why microsoft did it in the first place. Answer: to get "we support small developers" poster boys to fight off lawsuits and well deserved critisism. I don't blame Bill Mc for doing it, any publisity is.. ..well, almost.
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@ Kay
Hello. Nice to see you back here. :-)
Kay wrote:
> Hmm, I have a feeling that they (AInc) are more into "backstabbing" the old longtime community
> sites rather than supporting them ...
And I have a feeling you can't back that up at all.
It's a feeling I have since recently.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1577 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1577)
You might want to search for some other threads as well from aound that time.
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@rlfrost:
I wasn't having a go at you, or your statement.
@everyone:
I'm just a bit annoyed by the general tendency some people around here have towards cutting different people very different amounts of slack. If McEwen has to take heat for statements like: "I recently took my son to a children's concert and was quietly playing some of the games from the pack on my Pocket PC Phone Edition.", I wonder how people would react if he said something like "MorphOS will run on the AmigaOne, license or no license. One of you smart gals or guys will take care of that".
Don't worry guys, I'll run right over to AmigaWorld with the other blind wankers now.
Kay
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And I whish that some people would not be so eager to buy every single thing without critical reflection, just because it's sold by certain people. More critical thinking is needed. More debate. More discussion. Not less. Not one voice only, all others censored. But of course everybody is free to buy whatever he or she wants. And perhaps some people really *wants* that "one truth only, everything else is censored" thing, and is happy about that? Then fine. But I still get a repulsive feeling about that, and I would like to make a stance against it.
BTW, it's not products I am speaking about.
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My two cents are simply,
(1) Bill McEwen is a marketing man and that is what he was doing. A bit insensitive perhaps, but then, his kid is even coming up with commercials for the things, so...
(2) I like that Laridian company. :-)
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I dont blame McEwen for doing what he has to do to make money. He needs it just like the rest of us. I just think it's a bit hipocritical to jump on BBRV as satan and then to defend this tooth and nail.
I dont see anything wrong with what A.inc is doing in this case. Microsoft is a good partner to have and it will hopefully get them sales wich = money, wich = spill over money to be spent on AmigaOS/etc development.
I dont see how you can make fun of the guy for saying that comment about playing a PDA game... thats just lame to attack him over that.
Dont get me wrong in my previous post... I'm not jumping on McEwen for saying the things he said or jumping on A.inc for what their doing... they need to survive and in an economy like this to be able to get microsoft as a partner/parent company it's definitly a VERY good thing.
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"McEwen (Amiga) :
Amiga has a rich history in video and film work, and some of the other titles we have coming out in the next 90 days will allow user to manipulate video on their Windows Powered devices"
Well 2 weeks in AInc language means 2 years, so I don't think users of `Windows powered devices' should get too excited just yet ;)
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> I just think it's a bit hipocritical to jump on BBRV as satan and then to defend this tooth and
> nail.
If this was aimed at me:
If I'm hypocritical, it's completely unintentional. I try to treat people as fairly as possible. The reason I am a lot harsher against Buck than I am against McEwen, is simply that I consider the former's behaviour to be much, much worse than that of the latter. Yet McEwen seems to get away with far less. That was basically the point I was trying to make.
If this was not aimed at me:
Never mind. :-)
Anyway, I hope we can draw the line here, I think I've made my point sufficiently clear for those who have an interest in understanding it. I might drop by to argue with you some time later. :-)
Kay
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The reason I am a lot harsher against Buck than I am against McEwen, is simply that I consider the former's behaviour to be much, much worse than that of the latter.
I totally understand that... but what I dont understand is attacking buck for having advertisements on this site... and these paranoid rumors going around that Genesi owns this site now because it puts adds up.
what if A.inc and M$ decided to pay wayne for an add...would you cry foul if you saw a WinCE add?
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@Kay
While I really think BB should have worded those annoncements
different (or not at all), we should also admit that sofar they
have NOT been prooven wrong. Fact is TerraSoft jumped the MAI-boat
for yet unknown reasons, and Eyetech haven't actually delievered
the XE (to consumers that is). Still no excuse for his words, but
simialr things have been done by Eyetech/Hyperion with
suggesting that the Pegasos didn't have an Articia-fix, that
there are no bugs in the Articia, it is all due to the FirmWare,
or bPlan being unable to get information about VIA-SBs from MAI
(yes I know that makes no sense, ask Alan ...), and last but not
least the bullshit about the stolen sources.
More than enough dirt been thrown at eachother from all the
"big guys".
But back to Bill&Bill:
BB never took money for products he couldn't deliever and surely
never claimed something that hadn't even really started to be
"on schedule and rocking", he never made empty legal threads and
he most certainly never tried to blame 9.11 for his own failures
(now how pathetic was that ?).
What he has done is putting an actual "next-gen" Amiga(like) OS
unto the market, and that is a premier (or maybe he was 2nd if
you count Bernie's work).
McB on the other side has sofar failed on allmost every
promise he ever made, "his" products heavily rely on 3rd-party
efforts (M$,TAO,ZENEO), and he has taken money twice.
So BB is quite low form time to time, but he has still quite a way
to travel before he reaches McB's level.
And no, that way ain't going upwards.
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What's out there in the woods?
Hi, Kronos.
:-)
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I dont see how you can make fun of the guy for saying that comment about playing a PDA game...
Hey this bit about the guy playing at a show with his son was a *joke* ! Come on !
What shocked me was not the fact that bill McEwen uses another platform, heck, I suppose that his secretary does not use final Writer neither ;-)
But I think I remember him (its complicated, I cannot quote, he said *a lot* of things) saying that Amiga DE would not be "just a game pack for Windows CE", (God forbid) but the ground for a new mobile Amiga-based platform.
I sure was not reading properly at that time.
It IS just windows software.
As for "strategic partnerships", I don't know nothing about this, too complicated for me, I have no advice to give him.
just sounds dangerous.
pX
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(...) While I really think BB should have worded those annoncements
different (or not at all), (...)
I'm sorry, I missed this. To what words are you reffering here ? Can you post a link ?
"McEwen (Amiga) :
Amiga has a rich history in video and film work, and some of the other titles we have coming out in the next 90 days will allow user to manipulate video on their Windows Powered devices"
Well 2 weeks in AInc language means 2 years, so I don't think users of `Windows powered devices' should get too excited just yet ;)
Good point, red melon
:-P :-D :-P
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Amiga inc need to stop talking and start producing/releasing products instead of making announcements.
No matter how many people are out in force to defend their honour there is still going to be the normal people (myself included) which are not going to fall for the same old crap coming from those guys.
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I feel that while AOS4 is the actual next Amiga OS... MorphOS is a OS3.9> compatible OS that is, however, a different OS on a different platform. And about MorphOS on an A1, I've seen cracked BIOs updates before so I qould Not be surprised if it were made to run. And frankly, I wouldn;t be surprised at AOS on a Pegasos. Im think I'll wait until June until I say AOS4 is vaporware, it's certainly like Daikatana though.
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
Amiga inc need to stop talking and start producing/releasing products instead of making announcements.
I haven't heard much from them lately in the way of
product announcements (apart from the CeBit thing and I
don't rate that in the same category as the
announcements of old.). They even stopped doing the
executive updates.
Isn't the silence what so many people are jabbing
about?
@all
You cry "Wolf!" if they keep quiet, "Wolf!" if they talk.
Make up you mind, people.
.
SlimJim
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How many "partners" does MS have for their PocketPC stuff? Depending on the answer—and that answer's foibles—the fact that they were chosen for that interview might just be eye-opening.
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@Mips
Damn right Mips, our Troops need and "Deserve" our full support. You're going to take some heat from our brethren in the EU, but what the heck, we're here for the long run. :-x :angry: :madashell: :griping: :destroy:
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by Paul_Gadd on 2003/3/17 17:19:17
Amiga inc need to stop talking and start producing/releasing products instead of making announcements.
No matter how many people are out in force to defend their honour there is still going to be the normal people (myself included) which are not going to fall for the same old crap coming from those guys.
What I don't understand, why anyone would think Amiga Inc is relevent at all to the Amiga Community? Hyperion, yeah, they are very relevent because of OS4. If DE never came out for OS4, who would miss it? If the majority of folks do not care if OS4 has or doesn't have DE, why even talk about Amiga Inc at all?
Dammy
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Hello xaccrocheur,
What do you think about the following sentence in that article:
"....Amiga has over 3,000 developers creating content...."
Can anyone tell more about this part.
To me I read it like mr. Bill McEwen has got so many people in his company to make stuff?! :-?
Then why not making OS4?
About Amiga Inc. and Genesi I had a discussion with a very close friend, he still has his A500 for Supercars II :-), but now he also has a pc :-( :-).
If you look at both parties involved, they both said that at this moment with only developing for the Amiga communtiy they can't sustain their companies so they have to make money doing something else (that's logical). With that money they can start making stuff for the Amiga community.
Now look what's being made by both companies for third parties.
One is making games or so for Windows devices.
The other is selling their Pegasos-hardware and software (MorphOS) as settop boxes.
Ok, the making of the software for Windows devices isn´t directly related to the software we use now, or will use when OS4 will come (hopefully soon). But in the bigger picture you should be able to use it when OS5 is finished, anyway that's what we've been told.
Well, when OS5 hits the street, no one will remember the software of now! (that's my peronal opinion).
Look what the other company is doing with third parties. They are selling the same hardware and software to third parties as to their customers (at this moment members of the Amiga community).
What's my point of view with this all?
Amiga Inc. is making stuff not directly related to and for the Amiga community of now and Genesi is doing the opposite. They made their hard- and software for this community and they are selling the same stuff to third parties. In that way they stay closer to their plan than Amiga Inc is doing.
These are my personal feelings for a long time now and I wanted it to share it with you all.
What do you all think of this what I mentioned above?
Spidey
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@Dammy
What I don't understand, why anyone would think Amiga Inc is relevent at all to the Amiga Community?
It has to be the name "Amiga" as i can not understand how anyone would defend and praise a company like that at all.
This Amiga defending and praising has gone to far, why not praise them when they do something good? instead of defending and apologising for them all the time and making silly excuses for them.
Amiga is a computer and OS not a cult.
For tips on apologising click HERE (http://www.girlposse.com/talk_talk_talk/pasttalk/apologising/apologising.html) :-P
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Concerning Bill McEwen I have ambivalent emotions.
At first, don't forget that he did stick to Amiga while Collas disappeared. A good point.
Yet, under his leadership Amiga Inc. had the same PR as before, broken promises, deadlines, announcements, and worse of all, the Microsoft alliance. (Of which the latest may be as well rated as a positive one tho)
I have chosen to care little about him, as in my eyes he is not more Amigan as for example Jim Collas was. (or even less) He has a business to run, I doubt he shares our emotions towards the name and the community.
I don't think he made actions recently which deserve heated attacks upon him. The last time for that was an interview in november/december (can't remember the exact date) stating OS4 will be out in 3 weeks.
As to OS4, and a date of vaporware status.... It's pretty silly, but that is strictly IMHO. I won't declare OS4 as vaporware until discontinuation is officially announced. Timedates (now july) have increased from time to time, usually with intervals ranging from 2 weeks to 2 months, depending on the person making the estimation. This goes on since 2-3 years... If you believe in OS4 don't set up deadlines you have to modify. I still believe OS4 will be reality. People a bit more rational nowadays, only a few believes in a release in 2 weeks, but who cares? It will see the light one day, development is continuous to this day, I see no reason to worry.
Maybe it's a rant, but this is my opinion upon the Amiga Inc/Bill McEwen/OS4 subject.
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Who in hell cares about DE???
And what exactly is OS 5.0 from Amiga DE Inc, does it have anything at all to do with the real AmigaOS (3.1/4.0)???
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Dan wrote:
Who in hell cares about DE???
And what exactly is OS 5.0 from Amiga DE Inc, does it have anything at all to do with the real AmigaOS (3.1/4.0)???
Shouldn't we wait to see when/if OS4 materializes before even *thinking* about OS5? Just my two eurocents ...
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Hello xaccrocheur,
What do you think about the following sentence in that article:
"....Amiga has over 3,000 developers creating content...."
Can anyone tell more about this part.
Hi Spid
Yep, I'm wondering, I'm a dev, working on an amiga project right now, and I never got a phone call :)
Well, when OS5 hits the street, no one will remember the software of now! (that's my peronal opinion).
Well I think takemehomegrandma (?! :-P !?) is quite right in saying "Shouldn't we wait to see when/if OS4 materializes before even *thinking* about OS5? "
I mean... I never though I could DOUBT so much :) :-o
pX
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Hello xaccrocheur,
Yep, I'm wondering, I'm a dev, working on an amiga project right now, and I never got a phone call :)
Maybe you're already one of those 3000 developers and Amiga Inc. didn't bother you with details or so? :-)
About OS4/OS5:
I honestly believe in Hyperion delivering OS4 to the public. So I don't want to think about OS4 NOT coming out for public.
OS5 was only hypothetical to illustrate my point. :-)
But, what do you think about the making part for third parties?
I'm thinking about the possibilities that perhaps that market is more viable for Amiga Inc. than the Amiga market and that they don't want to spend more money in it? That would be bad for the future (not for OS4 I think).
Spidey