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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: leofoe on July 06, 2005, 10:37:08 PM

Title: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 06, 2005, 10:37:08 PM
The front of my A4000 was very yellow. I read on this site that it would be very difficult to get rid of that.
So I tried abbrasive paper. It worked!
Waterproof abbrasive paper, number 240 did the trick. See some pictures:
Halfway... (http://home.wanadoo.nl/~leof/4000Pic1.jpg)
Almost done... (http://home.wanadoo.nl/~leof/4000Pic2.jpg)
Done! (http://home.wanadoo.nl/~leof/4000Pic3.jpg)
The worst is yet to come... The keyboard!
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: NoFastMem on July 07, 2005, 02:27:28 AM
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: adolescent on July 07, 2005, 02:53:03 AM
I agree.  In the pics it looks almost A3000 beige.  But, the A4000 was almost white.  

However, it still looks better than before.  Good luck with the keyboard.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: HammerD on July 07, 2005, 03:57:42 AM
Have you tried, perhaps, immersing the face plate in bleach? Or perhaps a chemical solution like CLR ? (Calcium-lime-rust...maybe that would help? Dunno :)
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: orange on July 07, 2005, 08:26:57 AM
I don't understand why does yellowing bother you so much, ppl?? And *removing* layer of plastic seems much worse to me than yellowing. IMHO, much better option would be to use some kind of paint, especially the one that could be easily removed some day.
Because, you might regret it. For eg, I'm sure that some people towerising their A1200 and A4000D would now prefer original case.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 07, 2005, 08:35:58 AM
Quote

HammerD wrote:
Have you tried, perhaps, immersing the face plate in bleach? Or perhaps a chemical solution like CLR ? (Calcium-lime-rust...maybe that would help? Dunno :)


I tried bleach. It did not make the slightiest difference. Besides quickly having to get the door and windows open...
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 07, 2005, 08:37:59 AM
Quote

orange wrote:
I don't understand why does yellowing bother you so much, ppl?? And *removing* layer of plastic seems much worse to me than yellowing. IMHO, much better option would be to use some kind of paint, especially the one that could be easily removed some day.
Because, you might regret it. For eg, I'm sure that some people towerising their A1200 and A4000D would now prefer original case.


Well, I believe it is very ugly. I like it much better now. However, it doesn't look as new. And it will never. But I think with paint you can't get that new look either.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 07, 2005, 08:43:01 AM
Quote

NoFastMem wrote:
It still looks awfully yellow to me... But maybe that's your white balance?

The surface on which the front is laid down, is pure white. So you can compare with the word Amiga on the last picture, how yellow the whole front was before.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Tahoe on July 07, 2005, 10:10:13 AM
Looks a lot cleaner (and better in my personal opinion) but no scratches?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Framiga on July 07, 2005, 12:04:41 PM
hello

it was yellowed by the cigarettes smoke or was the plastic itself yellowed by the age/sun etc?

I have the same 4000/030 case (in a box now) that went yellowed by my cigarettes smoke but easily cleanable. (i can't understand from the pictures)

Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 07, 2005, 12:37:24 PM
Quote

Tahoe wrote:
Looks a lot cleaner (and better in my personal opinion) but no scratches?

No scratches. It even becomes smoother then before.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 07, 2005, 12:40:25 PM
Quote

Framiga wrote:
hello

it was yellowed by the cigarettes smoke or was the plastic itself yellowed by the age/sun etc?

I have the same 4000/030 case (in a box now) that went yellowed by my cigarettes smoke but easily cleanable. (i can't understand from the pictures)


I think from both. But from the sun is worst. It gets a few micron into the plastic. That's why you have to rub it off.
BTW: You DID pull out the battery, didn't you?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Chain on July 07, 2005, 12:46:10 PM
UV yellowing and smoke yellowing is very different.
tar can be removed very easy with some propyl/alcohol - and besides, it works like UV filter :))

deep UV yellowing from sun can be removed only mechanically like this, but it still looks very ugly  :-x  :-x  :-x
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: patrik on July 07, 2005, 02:53:19 PM
@leofoe:

Yeah, the front is not designed to be totally smooth. It, as most computer equipment, is made to have a slight uneven surface.


/Patrik
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: metalheart on July 07, 2005, 09:04:47 PM
@leofoe

I see a yellow front and I want it painted black.
No colours anymore I want them painted black...

:-)

Seriously, I've sprayed computers black more than once, works like a charm !
The only difficult thing is the keyboard...
But you should get a nice black Logitech wireless kb and mouse :-)

I can recommend this, but on the other hand it's a question of taste :-)

Cheers,

Martin
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Doppie1200 on July 07, 2005, 09:31:58 PM
I've thougt about a black A1200. A member of this very site posted a very cool black A1200 incarnation he created.

Anyway I'm still stuck on the keyboard part. CDTV keyboards are pretty rare.

I've got a nice white A1200 (it is almost none yellowed) that I keep under a dustcover. It is only used when no direct sunlight can shine upon it. I hope to keep it white for a couple of more years.

Also I have a spare keyboard (still in the mitsumi factory box) I'm thinking about spraying a yellow A1200 using silk gloss paint. If you hold the spraycan around 30 centimeters from the object you get about the same plastic shine as the original case has. The yellowed keys I can replace. But if those keys turn yellow I'm out of options.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Lemonty on July 07, 2005, 09:35:28 PM
Brainwave: Why didn't you use sunblock on your Amiga before?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: billt on July 07, 2005, 09:42:28 PM
I like Soft Scrub, with bleach, a sink cleaner in USA. I don't know what names this may be sold under where you are, but it's a fine grain gritty cleaning solution.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Framiga on July 07, 2005, 09:59:40 PM
Quote
I think from both. But from the sun is worst. It gets a few micron into the plastic. That's why you have to rub it off.
BTW: You DID pull out the battery, didn't you?

i'm not sure to have understood the question, anyway . . .

The first battery has been replaced under warranty in 1992-93 or so (don't remember now).

Then another one . . . mhh about 7-8 years ago (during a repair- Paula replaced) and recently i've replaced it after some rework on the mobo.

Why?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: amiga4001 on July 07, 2005, 10:04:47 PM
Just a idea I have,

If you would polish the keyboardkeys in a machine.
That is a trommel(english?)machine.
It is like a washingmachine which rotates slowly and is filled with for example cork(soft material no duts/scratch).
It is easy to control as the process goes slowly.
Just a tiny bit of the surface has to go from the keys.
I think it will improve the whiteness of the keys without loosen the keysymbols.
what do you think?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Doppie1200 on July 07, 2005, 10:19:00 PM
Polishing the keys will make you loose the symbols

If I look carefully at my A1200 keyboard upclose I can see the symbols laying on the plastic like a sticker. So you will first polish the sybols off before you reach the plastic underneath it.

It might work if the symbols are much thougher than the plastic.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: amiga4001 on July 07, 2005, 10:36:21 PM
I did try it with a car polish product(commandant).
It is a very aggressive polisher/cleaner.
I used it on a old A500 keyboard which was very yellowed.
I used a dremel with a polishtool(cotton disc) and the carpolish solution.
It worked allright...yes the symbols do get a bit less sharp but still readable.
And the improvement is whitening was absolutely there.
So I think the sysmbols are tougher then you think to get rid off.
This is why I think a machine like this would work.
And you could do all keys in one go not by hand and 30 minutes  the key.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Tomas on July 08, 2005, 12:59:28 AM
Quote
I see a yellow front and I want it painted black.
No colours anymore I want them painted black...

I dont understand why they made them white in first place..
This would be barely noticable with a dark colour like black, and it looks also better in my opinion..

I would not want to repaint a pc case though.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Jeff on July 08, 2005, 01:23:44 AM
I would have just cast one out of Aluminum and polished it, but I no longer have access to the forge or casting sand:-D. Wouldn't that look cool though?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: weirdami on July 08, 2005, 06:15:57 AM
My A1200 was white for years until I left it in storage for about a year. It was in there all protected from dust by brown paper and packing tape around the box and in the dark of a storage place but it yellowed anyway. I was very surprised when I took it out and all yellow it was. :-( It's got to be something other than direct sunlight.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 08, 2005, 07:46:12 AM
Framiga wrote:
Quote

The first battery has been replaced under warranty in 1992-93 or so (don't remember now).

Then another one . . . mhh about 7-8 years ago (during a repair- Paula replaced) and recently i've replaced it after some rework on the mobo.

Why?

If you keep it in a box, you don't use it. And the battery will get leaking sooner or later. But if it's replaced recently, you have a few years to go. I had my A4000 in a box for years and now my clock is ruined. Argh!
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: orange on July 08, 2005, 07:51:01 AM
@weirdami

are you sure it wasn't yellow before storage?  do you have photos before/after?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: leofoe on July 08, 2005, 07:53:36 AM
It was yellow before I put it in the box... So it was too late already.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Framiga on July 08, 2005, 01:28:27 PM
@leofoe

ahhh! . . .funny . . . understood now the misunderstanding :-)

no, its only the original A4000 case thats in the box . . . the mobo is still running on a PowerTower now. :-)

Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: NoFastMem on July 08, 2005, 01:40:16 PM
I've seen computer plastics yellow in dark storage too. It's weird but it happens.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Gav on July 09, 2006, 05:21:26 PM
Yeah my brother had his 500+ in a dust cover since he bought it new in the 90s..Then it was in dark storage for a long time and now parts of it are yellow,same thing happend to my friends dreamcast.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: KThunder on July 09, 2006, 06:24:45 PM
oxidation?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: patrik on July 09, 2006, 06:28:03 PM
@Gav:

It didn't happen to be very hot in the storage during periods of the years, like the summer?

Heat speeds up chemical processes.


/Patrik
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: amiga1084 on July 09, 2006, 09:23:20 PM
Hello All,

You guys are going to think I am an idiot for doing this when you read my story.You can only learn from your mistakes.

I had spare mint white 030 A4000 panel,I had no use for it as my spare A4000 is also mint white which is also 030 but has Warp Engine put in.So I had no use for it so during rubbish collection day I just trow this panel away with other rubbish (no other Amiga gear) and didn't think much about it.Several years ago I use to sell(they were all white) A4000 on Ebay for several reasons but mostly to make quick cash.(I wouldn't do it today A4000 are getting quite rare now.)Anyway month later I was given my first yellowed A4000 for nothing.It was one of first A4000's 040 with A2000 size disk drive which is still white and Buster 9 least it was socketed (so I can change it if I can find one) and it had Picasso 4 GFX card GVP Scsi card.Anyway back to the white panel I trow away,I was kicking myself as I keep this yellow A4000 on top of my mint white spare A4000 desktop as I have no room put it anywhere else and I keep the A4000's on top of my computer desk it looks horrible together.(My main Amiga is 4000T is under my computer desk) It's getting to stage where I want to get panal preferentially painted white I have seen some good jobs on Ebay.

I could be wrong but from my experance early A4000 (1992) panal's were more prone to getting yellowed than the later versions with the 030 slimline disk drives A4000 version's came out in mid 1993 to early 1994 But I could be wrong.Like to hear your comments.Merv :-?
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Hyperspeed on July 10, 2006, 04:23:49 AM
My A1200 desktop has stayed vanilla white for 12yrs now and hasn't yellowed anywhere. The key transfers don't like ionic surfactant like Cif or Flash so don't use kitchen detergents or anything.

I found Simple shower gel, warm water and an electric toothbrush are a great combination.

Anything with smoke yellowing can be left to soak and with a rough dish pad can be scrubbed up to white.

Chemical yellowing from heat, age or sunlight won't budge. Scratching off the surface probably isn't a good idea.

I've seen some injection moulded plastics sweatting. Like an old Epson Stylus printer, the plastic under the hood had a leaf-like pattern of haze on it that could be wiped off - as if it comes out of the plastic. Scientists have also suggested that plastic food packaging might leak chemicals into food (some that mimic oestrogen hormones). In fact, there was a scare about 10yrs ago with 'cling-film' for wrapping sandwiches in!

I have an old yellowy case and I just bought a matt-cream spray from a hardware store.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: thewalrus on July 10, 2006, 10:41:15 AM
I have several 4000 desktops in which I have had a number of the front panels along with other bits and pieces professionally sprayed with a special paint that sticks to acrylic.  The machine come up like new amd it is impossible to tell they have been resprayed. I also have a mint old 2000 in which I fitted a Cream CD drive. I got that resprayed the same tan colour of the 2000 and it looks really good. Other items I have applied the same treatment too are yellowed drive bay surrounds, floppy drive fronts, amiga keyboard surrounds etc etc The transformation is fantastic! I am not sure what the paint is but I could make inquiries if you are interested. I certainly would not sand the panels. The only hassle is you have to disassemble everything but it is worth it. I am just about to apply the same treatment to a 3000 and 1200 case surround. The fact is I Hate yellowed and mismatched amigas!!!
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Hyperspeed on July 10, 2006, 11:24:16 PM
It's a nightmare getting matching beige peripherals these days too... everything is silver, black or brilliant white!

If you intend spraying stuff and want to do some intricate masking to avoid spraying over things like key transfers then I reccommend masking paint. You dab it on like PVA glue and use a hairdryer to set it, then when you've done your spraying it peels off like latex.

For straight lines there's the basic, low-tack masking tape available in most art shops.

A touchup I performed lately using silver enamel was to paint the edges of my A1200's LEDs so that the light doesn't leak into the surrounding LEDs and case. What I mean is that the bright green POWER LED doesn't cause a slight glow to emant from the F.DISK LED (the lights are square and not insulated). Makes things look crisper, especially if you are using the lights to display CPU use via Executive, are keeping an eye on the audio filter or are just paranoid about a guru!

:-D
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: coldfish on July 11, 2006, 04:34:07 AM
Ive found vinyl (auto apholstery) spray paint sticks to ABS very well, it kinda vulcanizes into the surface 1/2 a mm or so, it wont chip off later like enamel will.

There was a guy around here recently that did a black/charcoal A600 mod and added new key decals...?

Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Hyperspeed on July 12, 2006, 12:51:14 AM
That sounds like leirbag28, he has a rather swish A600 and CD32.

I'm just wondering if it's an airborne pollutant that changes the colour of plastic, maybe carbon dioxide?

Strange that a Dreamcast was mentioned as going yellow as surely by 1999 all plastics would have had LV mixed in to protect against yellowing.

It's possible that contact with others plastics could trigger a yellowing. I know when I bought a second hand A1200 it came with a PVC/Vinyl dustcover and that seemed to have yellowed the case!
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Mugo on July 12, 2006, 12:58:29 PM
Quote

coldfish wrote:
Ive found vinyl (auto apholstery) spray paint sticks to ABS very well, it kinda vulcanizes into the surface 1/2 a mm or so, it wont chip off later like enamel will.

There was a guy around here recently that did a black/charcoal A600 mod and added new key decals...?




I did something like that in my A1200.

Did lots of mods in there, and painted it all black. Even the keyboard. After that i applied some inkjet water decals.

I was hoping it looked like crap, but the final results really pleased me, even more because i did it with no proper tools, and it took me weeks o hard work, just to mention the keyboard work.

You can see some (bad) pictures of it in the link bellow. These are the pages for the little meeting we have here in Brazil:

http://www.amilive.hpg.ig.com.br/amiliverj3/index.html

Just for the record, i'm the guy in the red shirt, in the second group of pictures, first line, last picture, that's carrying lots of beer cans in his chest :lol:

These are quite old photos (about one year old), and the machine now have a different configuration (Elbox FastATA MKII, BPPC with BVision, own made monitor switcher for the scandoubler/BVision, some fans).

In the moment it's disassembled, so i can touch up somethings, but i'm really proud of this baby :-D

By the way, the decals i've used are called SuperCal, and can be acquired from this website:

http://www.supercaldecals.com/

If you, like me, is in a country that doesn't have a local dealer for this product, they will not send you the sealing spray. But you can do as i did, and buy only the refil sheets. I used nail varnish to seal the printing, before putting it in the water. Worked like a charm.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: tomswift on July 13, 2006, 03:50:48 AM
Quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, the decals i've used are called SuperCal, and can be acquired from this website:

http://www.supercaldecals.com/

If you, like me, is in a country that doesn't have a local dealer for this product, they will not send you the sealing spray. But you can do as i did, and buy only the refil sheets. I used nail varnish to seal the printing, before putting it in the water. Worked like a charm.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Just did a google and found this:

http://www.sightconnection.com/laprkest.html

These stickers for the keyboard look like they would work.  I've had an A3000 and an A4000 yellow.  I went the paint route and if your careful with the color match it's hard to tell which is painted.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Mugo on July 13, 2006, 05:28:45 AM
Quote

tomswift wrote:
Quote:

Just did a google and found this:

http://www.sightconnection.com/laprkest.html

These stickers for the keyboard look like they would work.  I've had an A3000 and an A4000 yellow.  I went the paint route and if your careful with the color match it's hard to tell which is painted.


The problem i see with these stickers, is that they are for sight deficit people. They are huge !

Note that some of the stickers even don't have all the caracters (Escape for example - Just ES).

I think that it could be a really pain saver if they were a little prettier . . .
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: aardvark on July 13, 2006, 06:13:55 AM
Well there are these guys. (http://www.synctronics.com/faq.html)

These guys. (http://www.beaujoie.com/en/)

And these guys,  (http://www.latkey.com/)these guys, (http://www.keyboardstickers.net/) and these guys,  (http://www.language-keyboard.com/stickers.htm)as well as numerous others (google keyboard stickers)
  I've seen these at Comdex, some companies have peel and stick labels, some have key caps that snap on to existing keys, and some replace the original key itself.  of course, to order one full set of Amiga keys would be expensive, but if someone could conglomerate an order, the price might be reasonable.  (Any entrepreneural types out there, I smell a business opportunity?)
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Hyperspeed on July 14, 2006, 10:57:27 PM
Wonder if you could order an euro-symbol sticker and use the official Amiga patch, then someone utilise one of the blank keys on a UK keyboard for the euro symbol.
Title: Re: Yellow A4000 front
Post by: Doppie1200 on July 15, 2006, 10:20:31 AM
I've been examining my uber yellow keyboards I have here. It seems to me the plastic directly under the keyboard decal is not that yellow. And also the parts of white/yellow coming from underneath the decal (like the center of the '0') are not a really significant part of the keyboard button.

So I thought, if you have enough free time you could put a  
Liquid mask (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=WR&I=LXJMF4) on the button. After your white spray paint has dried you just clean the button and it should be OK I guess.