Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: AmiKit on July 01, 2005, 05:00:30 PM
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Hello!
I'd be very happy if I could find 4-5 people willing to test the brand new and free "all-in-one" package for WinUAE... (similar to AIAB or AmigaSYS).
Requirements:
Fast PC
Fast feedback ;)
Plenty of time for testing (mainly in second half of Jule, beggining of August)
Experience with WinUAE
Experience with AmigaOS3
Ownership of AmigaOS3.9 CD
Fast net connection (to be able to download 100MB of data)
Here are the current screenshots:
http://is.muni.cz/de/66477/AmiKit_shots/AmiKit1.png
http://is.muni.cz/de/66477/AmiKit_shots/AmiKit2.png
http://is.muni.cz/de/66477/AmiKit_shots/AmiKit3.png
Please leave me a message if you're really interested! Thank you. :-D
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I meet the requirements.
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I don´t. My ***** pc is probably fast enough but I really don´t have much time. The screenshots though look very very nice !!!!! :-)
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I shall give it a go if your stuck for people :D
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Hi glwxxx
I can do it no problem, pc is an amd 2800+ 512mb with a geforce 5950 ultra 256mb, not the fastest but should be fast enough! , i'm using a 4mb broadband connection, i have os 3.9 cd and time every evening, so it'd be a pleasure to beta for you, just let me know!
Regards Juv.U.K
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AmiKit - good name man ;)
It's all looking great - certainly prettier than AmigaSYS; nice choice of icons and start-menu too, lol. That brushed steel background on iBrowse is rather plush - I'll have to look into adding patterns to MUI once again ;)
Ooh, and you're using the latest AmiStart beta too; good to see my requests and suggestions aren't benefitting just myself! ;) Hey, is that NiceBar running in the top left?
Your VisualPrefs theme (or is it Ken's?) needs a bit of work though - the magnifying glass pop-up gadget looks a little out-of-place ;) I had a few problems remaking the OS4 theme for visual prefs, however this is what I eventually came up with, it's not perfect, but is reasonably close:
(http://site2.imageshosted4u.com/out.php/i464_muiaslos4vp.png)
Anyway, I would offer to help test, but I've got enough things on my plate at the moment - looking for a new job over here, whilst working on preparations for a school festival! I'm hoping to get a more polished AIAB update out the door at some point too. One thing I would ask though is that you atleast credit me for any scripts or similar functionality borrowed from AIAB; I remember booting AmigaSYS for the first time and was more than a little cheesed off...
Well, good luck with the release! ;)
Cheers,
James
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Looks cool
would like to help but i`m only 56k...
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I could probably have a good look at it after next week.
I'll hopefully have some free time after my sis gets married :-)
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@jmbattle
I've sent you a mail to the address found at your page...
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Thats a lovely setup there wish my UAE looked that well :-o
Tell me if you run short on testers i will give it a go if so..
adonay :-D
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Yup, you should have recieved a reply ;)
Actually, one thing I overlooked to mention in the email was the idea of integrating AIAB and AmiKit; as I wrote, I don't have the time to spend on AIAB anymore, and would gladly pass on the project to someone with a similar interest in Amiga emulation and a flair for interface design. AmiKit is the first Amiga distribution I have seen that looks visually appealling (ClassicWB is excellent, but doesn't really count, as this is more geared towards the classic Workbench desktop).
I'd be interested in the opinions of other Amiga folks...
Cheers,
James
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I'm willing to help out.
It'll give me an excuse to finally install 3.9. Not to mention see how it compares to AIAB.
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This looks very promising. Thanks for your hard work. I have a nice self built athlon 2.2ghz rig w 1mb dsL I could test this out on. If interested please PM me.
magnetic
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By 'eck, that looks gorgeous!
Pity my PC would die a death :-(
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Your VisualPrefs theme (or is it Ken's?)
No -- my OS4 VisualPrefs theme IS "perfect" -- of course, I had an unfair advantage! Heh, heh. ;-)
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i meet the requirements got all the needed kit and been playing with winuae for 7 years
[os] Windows XP Professional 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 [cpu] 1 AMD @ 1991.20 MHz AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3400+ x86 Family [memory]1024mb [display] NVIDIA GeForce FX 6800 card(s),[hdd] [C: 20,002.77mb (5,582.62mb free)] [D: 194,474.32mb (24,578.77mb free)] [E: 85,533.54mb (57,369.05mb free)] [F: 88,937.94mb (78,943.34mb free)]
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BOOOOOOO!
Down with Amiga emulation!
;-)
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@Hyperspeed
Maybe you should explain your opinion a little bit more :lol:
Anyway, AmiKit is going to be useful even for "real" Amigas...
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AthlonXP 2800+, Asus Mobo, 1GB DDR RAM, 600GB (TOTAL) HD, Matrox Parhelia 256, Matrox RT 2500, Nec DVD+-RW, LG DVDrom, JBL PRO studio audio monitors, 19" CRT monitor.
line: ADSL 384.
Amiga OS from 1.0 to 3.9 (original)
Plenty of time in August :-D
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It must suck emulating a machine that so many coders hit the metal with. However I can see the advantages of having portable versions of RTG software and demonstration software like Scala and Hollywood.
So can anyone list all the Amiga emulators out there now? There's about half a dozen right!?
:-)
Is AGA supported and '040/'060/PPC etc.? How are 880K disks handled by the PC, what about PCMCIA devices and laptops, SCSI addressing and how does a TCP/IP stack talk through emulation?
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Hyperspeed wrote:
Is AGA supported
Yup.
'040/'060/PPC etc.?
Up to 060. No PPC except for PearPC, AFAIK. But, that's not an Amiga emulator.
How are 880K disks handled by the PC
They're not. A shame, I know. I just make ADFs and send them over the network. SAMBA is good.
what about PCMCIA devices and laptops
WinUAE runs fine, albeit slow, on my laptop and has no issue with my PCMCIA wireless card.
SCSI addressing
WinUAE has something called uaescsi.device that works well for me. I have yet to see any hiccoughs. AOS3.5 even installed without a hitch on my 0.9.something WinUAE.
how does TCP/IP stack talk through emulation?
WinUAE provides a BSDSocket.library emulation that works with Windows' built-in networking. No seperate TCP/IP stack needed. Very fast when compared to my A3k running MiamiDX.
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Direct access to 880k disks will be added on the new version using a catweasel. At the moment you can read and write amiga disks with the win driver on winuae.
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I really begrudge the promotion of UAE and suchlike on Amiga.org...
If the sole reason is to run Amiga software on a laptop then why doesn't someone make a bloody Amiga laptop!
I think it's fine to emulate a C=64 or say Megadrive/Genesis but a machine that brand new commercial software is still being released for? The promotion of classic Amiga emulation on the x86 format is killing the unique selling point that the AmigaOne has of emulating all old Amiga software.
Recently Sony has succesfully stopped UK importers from using so called `mod chips' to bypass copy protection and so the sale of them has now become illegal here. Given a good lawyer, Amiga Inc. could effectively argue that by emulating a classic Amiga a coder is basically removing the requirement to buy their unique new hardware thus undermining their business. Not only that but the competition from more refined PC-based web software competing with the like of the recent IBrowse 2.3/2.4 could effectively strangle all hopes of a minor comeback.
In a world where retro is coming back into fashion, where joysticks are being made with old Megadrive/Genesis and C=64 games, I think it's essential that sites like Amiga.org and their users keep the faith and promote classic hardware sales, AmigaOne/Pegasos sales and give impetus to the ressurection of a dormant platform that could hail the future for community dreams and business.
;-)
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Hyperspeed wrote:
I really begrudge the promotion of UAE and suchlike on Amiga.org...
If the sole reason is to run Amiga software on a laptop then why doesn't someone make a bloody Amiga laptop!
Er... because it would cost 3x more than an equivalent PC laptop and nobody would buy it... Do you think A.Org would have anywhere near as many active users if it wasn't for the likes of UAE?
Personally, I'm all for anything that keeps the Amiga "community" going, be that on real hardware or via emulation.
Is the AmigaOne really an Amiga in the true sense? It's essentially just an overpriced (IMHO before anyone bites!) PPC board running a hobbyist OS. I'd quite like one as a play/hobby machine but just can't justify the $$$. I appreciate the fact that small low-user runs of hardware always cost more - it's a shame the A1 wasn't based on standard x86 hardware, perhaps with a plug-in card of some sort to contain the code that allows OS4 to run...
I think it's fine to emulate a C=64 or say Megadrive/Genesis but a machine that brand new commercial software is still being released for? The promotion of classic Amiga emulation on the x86 format is killing the unique selling point that the AmigaOne has of emulating all old Amiga software.
Running of classic Amiga software isn't the AmigaOne's USP - this has been available (in varying forms of success and speed) on x86 Linux and Windows for around a decade...
And... what, realistically, is being released commercially for the classic Amiga platform these days? At least with UAE, there's a larger user base for this software, should its users choose to buy it, rather than relying on a community using 10-20 year old machines with failing hardware.
Recently Sony has succesfully stopped UK importers from using so called `mod chips' to bypass copy protection and so the sale of them has now become illegal here.
That's perfectly fair enough and not really the issue with UAE as most classic Amiga software is 10+ years old and not available to buy.
Given a good lawyer, Amiga Inc. could effectively argue that by emulating a classic Amiga a coder is basically removing the requirement to buy their unique new hardware thus undermining their business.
I disagree - emulation of the classic Amiga doesn't make the A1 unique. What makes it unique is that it provides an alternative hobbyist platform. Classic Amiga emulators predate the A1.
Not only that but the competition from more refined PC-based web software competing with the like of the recent IBrowse 2.3/2.4 could effectively strangle all hopes of a minor comeback.
The reason for the lack of decent Amiga web browsing software is simply due to the size of the user base. Why would the likes of the Mozilla organisation commit the necessary resource to produce an OS4 version of Mozilla or Firefox (or even a classic Amiga version) when the percentage of users when compared to Linux x86 and Windows is miniscule?
In a world where retro is coming back into fashion, where joysticks are being made with old Megadrive/Genesis and C=64 games, I think it's essential that sites like Amiga.org and their users keep the faith and promote classic hardware sales, AmigaOne/Pegasos sales and give impotus to the ressurection of a dormant platform that could hail the future for community dreams and business.
I couldn't agree more. I still buy the odd bit of hardware for my classic Amigas and I hope people with the money to spare will buy AmigaOnes and Pegasos/MorphOS. But I also hope that UAE is developed further and that more people who used the Amiga in the 80s and 90s continue to discover it and join Amiga.Org to discuss it.
Just my 2c worth!
- Ali
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Well, all the points you make are good ones and valid, however I doubt very much that by emulating the Amiga any PC user is going to rush out and buy IBrowse2.4 or the latest FryingPan, TurboPrint or Pagestream.
Do you think an Amiga owner with a UAE laptop is going to rush out and buy the excellent Hollywood multimedia package if there's already a dusty old copy of Powerpoint already bundled with the Windows install?
UAE is doing nobody any favours in my opinion and the frequent reports of things going wrong, apps/games/demos not working properly doesn't do the legacy any good either.
Admittedly running Workbench, DOpus and my favourite utilities on a laptop is a wonderful, tempting idea... but because things are so shaky in terms of new AmigaOS revisions and new AmigaOne machines the emulation scene could well be the death sentance.
"Need is 9/10ths of Invention" or whatever they say... so do we NEED a new Amiga, new apps if the whole WinXP catalogue is just a window behind Workbench? You eliminate all the cool, native video capability, all the super-optimised hardware banging demos, all the gadgets and gizmos that made the Amigas so cool and you're left with a zombified skeleton running RTG apps on a 3GHz 68020!
What about PowerPC software anyway...
:-D
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Hyperspeed wrote:
Do you think an Amiga owner with a UAE laptop is going to rush out and buy the excellent Hollywood multimedia package if there's already a dusty old copy of Powerpoint already bundled with the Windows install?
Realistically, no... I think most people, when faced with a choice of creating documents or presentations using native Windows/Linux tools vs classic Amiga tools under emulation are going to pick the former. Especially when the likes of OpenOffice are free, feature-rich and compatible with Microsoft's so-called "standards".
And no, I don't think many UAE users would be registering classic Amiga software either... but they *could*...
UAE is doing nobody any favours in my opinion and the frequent reports of things going wrong, apps/games/demos not working properly doesn't do the legacy any good either.
I've not personally experienced things going wrong with UAE, especially with recent revisions of WinUAE, but then again I mainly use it for playing classic games or for experimenting with things before trying them out "for real" on my actual hardware. I have a duplicate copy of my A1200's hard drive contents running fine under UAE, including demos, games, applications (OctaMED, Final Writer, etc).
The AmigaOne won't run classic Amiga software natively - it too has to work through emulation unless running native OS4 apps. UAE's compatibility is very good - and gives more scope than "real" hardware (e.g. UAE will emulate from an A500 with 68000, OCS and KS1.x right up to an A4000-class machine with graphics card, and no "real" piece of classic Amiga hardware will achieve that range of compatibility, despite the use of degrader software and the like).
Admittedly running Workbench, DOpus and my favourite utilities on a laptop is a wonderful, tempting idea...
So... give it a go! You'll be pleasantly surprised by the speed at which a modern PC can emulate a classic Amiga...
but because things are so shaky in terms of new AmigaOS revisions and new AmigaOne machines the emulation scene could well be the death sentance.
But the classic Amigas had their death sentence many many years ago. OS3.x is extremely unlikely to see further revisions, and that classic hardware isn't getting any newer.
The AmigaOne machines will benefit from continued UAE development by allowing non-system-friendly software to be run. The combined might of all of the UAE developers will produce a much more compatible classic hardware emulation than if it was left to the developers of OS4 alone.
"Need is 9/10ths of Invention" or whatever they say... so do we NEED a new Amiga, new apps if the whole WinXP catalogue is just a window behind Workbench?
Well... the need for continued investment in new hardware and software is debatable... An A500 with basic dot matrix printer and word processing package will still let you produce letters, etc, but most people would prefer to be doing it on a more modern machine with better printer and software.
You eliminate all the cool, native video capability, all the super-optimised hardware banging demos, all the gadgets and gizmos that made the Amigas so cool and you're left with a zombified skeleton running RTG apps on a 3GHz 68020!
I agree - the classic Amigas were great for the hardware-banging demos. But these won't be running on an AmigaOne unless it's via emulation, and that'll be UAE...
Any piece of modern hardware lacks what made (and still makes!) the classic Amigas cool. From the click of the floppy drive to the classic WB1.x "hand", running on real hardware is definitely the best way to get the nostalgia going, but how long will all this old hardware last?
UAE will run the majority of demos and other software that bashes on the hardware - it's able to do very much more than just running RTG applications quickly and emulates the whole custom chipset, be that OCS, ECS or AGA, and a variety of CPUs and RAM configurations.
- Ali
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But what if AmigaOS 4 finally makes it to PowerPC equipped classic Amigas? And AmigaOne is using classic emulation built into OS4 isn't it?
I'm sure there was also a rival OFFICIAL emulator package from Amiga Inc themselves. Making things freeware, as with MP3, really didn't do the music industry much good. I have said in the past though that UAE would be the saviour if only Amiga Inc started an iTunes style download shop for classic games. Do they listen? NO!
;-)
I must say I'm mildly curious about PSP UAE - the Amiga emulator for the Playstation handheld.
:-D
Just how you'd operate Workbench with a D-pad and 4 fire buttons I don't know, let alone writing a letter on Wordworth!
So does WinUAE run Spaceballs `State of the Art' and things like CD32 Super Stardust? If UAE is still being developed for Linux to the same standards as WinUAE then I might give it a shot, it'd be keeping some of the free spirit going...
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Hyperspeed wrote:
But what if AmigaOS 4 finally makes it to PowerPC equipped classic Amigas? And AmigaOne is using classic emulation built into OS4 isn't it?
As far as I know, OS4's classic emulation is restricted to the 68K processor and system-friendly application software, e.g. stuff that goes via the OS rather than bashing on the hardware directly.
From a review here (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/amiga.ars/5), it says:
"Legacy Amiga applications, such as games, that were written to access the old custom chipset hardware directly, will not run in OS4.0. However, a port of WinUAE for OS4, called E-UAE, has been produced that will allow these games to be run as well. So-called "system friendly" legacy Amiga applications, the kind that were able to use PC-based graphics cards, run directly from the OS4 shell. The operating system launches a 68020 emulator seamlessly in the background when the application's icon is double-clicked. In this release of the OS, the emulator is interpretive only, and provides the speed of about a 50MHz 68040 on the 800Mhz AmigaOne hardware."
I'm sure there was also a rival OFFICIAL emulator package from Amiga Inc themselves. Making things freeware, as with MP3, really didn't do the music industry much good. I have said in the past though that UAE would be the saviour if only Amiga Inc started an iTunes style download shop for classic games. Do they listen? NO!
Well, Amiga Forever is the official Amiga emulator, with fully licensed Kickstart ROMs and Workbench disk images for a variety of versions. And yes, that uses UAE too.
I must say I'm mildly curious about PSP UAE - the Amiga emulator for the Playstation handheld.
Yes, it would be particularly cool to have a very portable Amiga for some of the classic games. Superfrog would be great!
So does WinUAE run Spaceballs `State of the Art'
Just downloading now from the Spaceballs web site (http://spaceballs.planet-d.net)... It does run "9 Fingers" very well, from the same group. Yep, it runs "State Of The Art" too - running it in a window as I type this! Must admit, I haven't seen that for ages, will write it out to floppy in a minute and see if my A3000 runs it.
and things like CD32 Super Stardust?
Not sure, I don't own this and haven't been able to try it out...
If UAE is still being developed for Linux to the same standards as WinUAE then I might give it a shot, it'd be keeping some of the free spirit going...
Unfortunately, most development is done on WinUAE first these days (biggest "market share" of UAE users), but E-UAE attempts to port the WinUAE enhancements back to the UNIX/Linux version.
Definitely worth giving it a go though, especially to watch those classic demos once again that may not run on more modern real Amiga hardware.
- Ali
Edit: "Spaceballs" doesn't run on my A3000, even with CPU cache disabled. Even though I own quite a few bits of classic hardware, only WinUAE will allow me to watch this unless I go and dig out my real A600!
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Hey there,
If you still need some beta testers,
i would be glad to take part.
Greetings