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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / General => Topic started by: adz on June 15, 2005, 02:18:05 AM
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In another thread Karlos provided a really useful link, here is an extract:
@Karlos
Protanomaly (one out of 100 males):
Protanomaly is referred to as "red-weakness", an apt description of this form of color deficiency. Any redness seen in a color by a normal observer is seen more weakly by the protanomalous viewer, both in terms of its "coloring power" (saturation, or depth of color) and its brightness. Red, orange, yellow, yellow-green, and green, appear somewhat shifted in hue ("hue" is just another word for "color") towards green, and all appear paler than they do to the normal observer. The redness component that a normal observer sees in a violet or lavender color is so weakened for the protanomalous observer that he may fail to detect it, and therefore sees only the blue component. Hence, to him the color that normals call "violet" may look only like another shade of blue.
Under poor viewing conditions, such as when driving in dazzling sunlight or in rainy or foggy weather, it is easily possible for protanomalous individuals to mistake a blinking red traffic light from a blinking yellow or amber one, or to fail to distinguish a green traffic light from the various "white" lights in store fronts, signs, and street lights that line our streets.
Source (http://colorvisiontesting.com/color2.htm)
Spot on for me too, although I was diagnosed with Extreme Protanomaly. Wonder how much difference that makes, I know one thing, it thwarted my dreams of becoming a Pilot.
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My particular colourblindness is quite difficult to characterise properly.
I was first diagnosed as an extreme Deutanome, but more detailed tests showed I was between that and cone monochromatic.
The specific problem, as far as they could ascertain, is that I have far to many S cones (short wavelength, ie blue) and a much reduced number of L or M cones.
My eyes are hypersensetive to some shades of blue, particularly that neon blue colour that way too many people are now fronting their take outs with :-D
It's like looking at burning magnesium *squint*
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Also, check this out
Designing for the colourblind (http://www.internettg.org/newsletter/mar99/accessibility_color_challenged.html)
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Aha. Now I understand that wierd triangle of your avatar. It's colour triangle as you perceive it. Freaky.
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@Cymric
Congratulations, sir, you have solved the first challenge on the Path of Chromination ;-)
If you can deduce the remainder, you are welcome in the new world order :evilgrin:
Muhahaahaaaa... *cough*
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So what are all theese purple and green lines I keep seeing?.....OOh ....it's all melting... :crazy:
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>>It's a colour triangle as you perceive it...
[color=ff00ff]< Compulsory image of freaky eye for sun readers>[/color]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/blobrana/1.gif)
[color=ff00ff]< /Compulsory image of freaky eye for sun readers>[/color]
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Karlos wrote:
@Cymric
Congratulations, sir, you have solved the first challenge on the Path of Chromination ;-)
If you can deduce the remainder, you are welcome in the new world order :evilgrin:
Muhahaahaaaa... *cough*
Yeah, now all we have to do is tinker with his cones and he'll fit right in :-P
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Karlos wrote:
My eyes are hypersensetive to some shades of blue, particularly that neon blue colour that way too many people are now fronting their take outs with :-D
It's like looking at burning magnesium *squint*
Gee thats harsh, can't say I've ever experienced something that extreme, although driving can be a tad tricky at times. When I was initially tested, they thought that I would find it near impossible to even see the car in fronts brake lights, but that is yet to prove a problem for me.
What I find most difficult is trying to tell the difference between shades and similar colours, what looks brown to a "norm" may look red to me and vice versa, same with green, I may confuse that for brown and vice versa. It doesn't cause me any major grief but it still feels like a huge kick in the knackers when I try to do a Ishihara test and all I see is a bunch of dots. I wonder when mdma will finally give in and take the test :-P
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Greetings,
After a long an eye tiring day, here's something (http://www.geocities.com/self_hypnosis/) to relax that tired eyes! :-D
If you're using opera, try magenfying it to 240%.... :-o
Regards,
GiZz72
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@ Karlos
"...My eyes are hypersensetive to some shades of blue, particularly that neon blue colour that way too many people are now fronting their take outs with
It's like looking at burning magnesium *squint*..."
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I take it that watching Tron in the cinema is a no-go then? :-P
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"...My eyes are hypersensetive to some shades of blue, particularly that neon blue colour that way too many people are now fronting their take outs with
It's like looking at burning magnesium *squint*..."
You'll not be buying a Volkswagen at any point in the near future either!
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X-ray wrote:
I take it that watching Tron in the cinema is a no-go then? :-P
That movie was an arsefez for many reasons even before we get that far ;-)
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PMC wrote:
You'll not be buying a Volkswagen at any point in the near future either!
The typical VW dash isn't that bad. It's quite a narrow range I'm hypersensetive to, and that's just on the longer wavelength end. It still looks a bit harsher than I'd like, but you don't spend all day looking at it.
The biggest problems are seeing traffic lights at a distance. Until I'm close enough to observe the enclosure, its very difficult to tell which colour is on. At night, it can be difficut to even see a traffic light amidst all the normal lights etc on your typical highstreet.
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@ Karlos
"...That movie was an arsefez for many reasons even before we get that far..."
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But, my good man, surely a fez can't be luminous blue? Even an arsefez worn by a Smurf has to be red, innit? :-P
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@X-Ray
Thin ice, my friend, thin ice :evilgrin:
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Karlos wrote:
The biggest problems are seeing traffic lights at a distance. Until I'm close enough to observe the enclosure, its very difficult to tell which colour is on. At night, it can be difficut to even see a traffic light amidst all the normal lights etc on your typical highstreet.
I know from a distance I can't tell the difference between Red and Orange and at night green blends in with headlights and street lights.
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It put a crimp on my electronics hobby. Until I got a DMM, that is :-D
Pity I can't find the damn thing :lol:
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Did you see that news article about the painter who is (allegedly) completely colour-blind? They hooked up a camera to a laptop and converted all the visible wavelengths to sound frequencies. He aims the camera at a colour on his subject and the sound tells him which one it is. I thought that was pretty cool.
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For the really curious...
Sight is the product of the physical operation of the eye and the interpretation of that data by the visual cortex. It's impossible, really, to tell someone else how your visual perception interprets the world.
For myself, I can usually differentiate a strong (ie reasonably saturated) colour from the absence of colour (grey), but not one colour from another, unless its bluish. Unsaturated colours (unless blue) are hard to differentiate from grey.
A picture paints a thousand words, so with that, I spent a while trying to make an image process filter that converts unsaturated non blues to grey, passes some blue-greens and enhances the contrast of blues. It's not perfect by a long chalk as I can see the difference from the input and output, but the important thing is, it removes the distinction between colours I can't really perceive.
Lyme Hall as you 'normals' see it (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/lymehall.jpg)
Lyme Hall as I see it (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/lymehall_k.jpg)
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It kinda looks like as if it was in the middle of the night, although much lighter.
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whabang wrote:
It kinda looks like as if it was in the middle of the night, although much lighter.
Your cone cells require much higher levels of light than the rods to be stimulated properly. Generally, everybody sees in greyscale in low enough light levels :-)
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Karlos wrote:
For the really curious...
Sight is the product of the physical operation of the eye and the interpretation of that data by the visual cortex. It's impossible, really, to tell someone else how your visual perception interprets the world.
For myself, I can usually differentiate a strong (ie reasonably saturated) colour from the absence of colour (grey), but not one colour from another, unless its bluish. Unsaturated colours (unless blue) are hard to differentiate from grey.
A picture paints a thousand words, so with that, I spent a while trying to make an image process filter that converts unsaturated non blues to grey, passes some blue-greens and enhances the contrast of blues. It's not perfect by a long chalk as I can see the difference from the input and output, but the important thing is, it removes the distinction between colours I can't really perceive.
Lyme Hall as you 'normals' see it (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/lymehall.jpg)
Lyme Hall as I see it (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/lymehall_k.jpg)
It looks to me like when i've been wearing dark sunglasses in really strong sunlight and then gone in the shade and removed the sunglasses.
Very odd. :-)
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Karlos wrote:
Generally, everybody sees in greyscale in low enough light levels :-)
Or if it's still daylight, a litre or two of homemade slivovitz has the same effect. :pint:
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The lack of colour perception for all those poncy earthy tones is more than made up for by some of nature's shades. Try these:
Some blue flowers (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/blueflowers.jpg)
As I perceive them... (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/blueflowers_k.jpg) (sort of - the filter wiped out the sky which looks quite blue to me)
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Doobrey wrote:
Karlos wrote:
Generally, everybody sees in greyscale in low enough light levels :-)
Or if it's still daylight, a litre or two of homemade slivovitz has the same effect. :pint:
:lol:
Try meths, it's cheaper*.
*disclaimer: this is a very stupid idea. You'll likey die or go blind at least ;-)
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Karlos wrote:
The lack of colour perception for all those poncy earthy tones is more than made up for by some of nature's shades. Try these:
Some blue flowers (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/blueflowers.jpg)
As I perceive them... (http://tillpoint.com/.temp/blueflowers_k.jpg) (sort of - the filter wiped out the sky which looks quite blue to me)
Is this affliction something that can be seen as a genuine disability?
eg. Can you get one of those very useful blue disabled badges for your motor? ;-)
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In the DVLA application form, it lists visibility defects but expressly excludes colour blindness from that list.
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Karlos wrote:
In the DVLA application form, it lists visibility defects but expressly excludes colour blindness from that list.
Ah well, at least it's comforting to know you aren't a danger on the roads then! ;-)
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@mdma
Actually it's more a case of the general level of non-understanding of how colourblind people see the world that means they don't allow it as a recognised impairment.
Most colourblind people have no difficulty in recognising traffic lights in normal lighting conditions. However, depending on the type (something that the DVLA in particular clearly have no understanding of - that there are types of colour disability) and severity of the dysfunction, it can be impossible to tell certian traffic signals apart.
I myself find red traffic lights very hard to see in bright conditions and all traffic lights are hard to distinguish from a distance under any lighting conditions where the enclosure itself is not obvious.
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I wonder how those same images will look in adz-o-vision?
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X-ray wrote:
Did you see that news article about the painter who is (allegedly) completely colour-blind? They hooked up a camera to a laptop and converted all the visible wavelengths to sound frequencies. He aims the camera at a colour on his subject and the sound tells him which one it is. I thought that was pretty cool.
Yeah, but how the hell does he mix the paint? :-?
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Karlos wrote:
@mdma
Actually it's more a case of the general level of non-understanding of how colourblind people see the world that means they don't allow it as a recognised impairment.
Most colourblind people have no difficulty in recognising traffic lights in normal lighting conditions. However, depending on the type (something that the DVLA in particular clearly have no understanding of - that there are types of colour disability) and severity of the dysfunction, it can be impossible to tell certian traffic signals apart.
I myself find red traffic lights very hard to see in bright conditions and all traffic lights are hard to distinguish from a distance under any lighting conditions where the enclosure itself is not obvious.
Perfect excuse for getting the wife to drive!
"Oooh, it's looking a bit grey out love. Don't reckon I could see proper. You best drive."
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@ Karlos
"...Yeah, but how the hell does he mix the paint?..."
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He aims the camera at the palette and if the sound frequency is too high or low, he adds colour of the right 'frequency' to fix it.
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I found the dude and the device here. (http://www.dartington.ac.uk/news/newsdetail.asp?uid=36)
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mdma wrote:
Perfect excuse for getting the wife to drive!
"Oooh, it's looking a bit grey out love. Don't reckon I could see proper. You best drive."
Trust me, she is far and away too intelligent to fall for that. Whilst she knows and accepts the limitation of my vision, my saying the above is likely to meet with "It always looks grey to you, out or in."
A far better excuse is the fact I didn't actually take my driving test yet :lol:
Admittedly, that's largely the fact I never got round to it when I had time, and now I'm struggling to find it :-/
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X-ray wrote:
@ Karlos
"...Yeah, but how the hell does he mix the paint?..."
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He aims the camera at the palette and if the sound frequency is too high or low, he adds colour of the right 'frequency' to fix it.
That's interesting. How do you fully eproduce colour as sound? OK, it's fine for the basic spectrum since you are mapping frequency of light to frequency of sound. However, even I know there's no such thing as the "brown" wavelength. Some colours are mixtures of wavelengths of light. Does the device play complex harmonics?
I could imagine using three harmonizing notes for each of your primary wavelengths in differeing volumes to represent the component intensity...
Hmm, I might go and listen to some of Rembrandt's stuff :-D
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mdma wrote:
"Oooh, it's looking a bit grey out love. Don't reckon I could see proper. You best drive."
Maybe the it gets him out of shopping with her too ..
"What do you think of this dress?"
"I dunno, grey always makes your bum look big" :-D
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:roflmao:
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Karlos wrote:
I wonder how those same images will look in adz-o-vision?
That had me rolling for a second there :roflmao:
Seriously, I really don't know how to describe how they look because the way I see the world, it appears normal, yet to a "norm" it would probably be quite odd indeed. Best example I could use would be the grass, a norm would be able to see distinct variations in hue with the different types of grass/weeds present, whilst it would all appear the same tone of green to me. I honestly don't think I see a different colour scale, but I know I don't see as many colours.
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Doobrey wrote:
Maybe the it gets him out of shopping with her too ..
And if that fails to get you out of it,try my patented guaranteed method.
"Does this dress make my bum look big?"
"No dear, the dress is fine, it's the cellulite that makes your arse look big"
It maybe painful, but it's worth it in the long run. :-)
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Karlos wrote:
whabang wrote:
It kinda looks like as if it was in the middle of the night, although much lighter.
Your cone cells require much higher levels of light than the rods to be stimulated properly. Generally, everybody sees in greyscale in low enough light levels :-)
Well, at night, everything gets a blue hue, even when there is no moonlight. At least in my eyes. :-)
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Doobrey wrote:
Doobrey wrote:
Maybe the it gets him out of shopping with her too ..
And if that fails to get you out of it,try my patented guaranteed method.
"Does this dress make my bum look big?"
"No dear, the dress is fine, it's the cellulite that makes your arse look big"
It maybe painful, but it's worth it in the long run. :-)
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
Good one! :-)
Reminds me of one I use when she catches me eyeing up another bird. Quick as a flash the moment I realise I've been caught, I say:-
"Look at the state of her, what does she think she looks like?"
Which automatically appeals to a womans vanity and b!tchy nature, and gives the reply:-
"I know, what a tart! Look at the state of her boobs, all falling out of her top!"
"Yes love, I am!" ;-)
Works *everytime*.
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whabang wrote:
Well, at night, everything gets a blue hue, even when there is no moonlight. At least in my eyes. :-)
Funny, I can't say I ever really thought about it before but you might be right.
One thing's for sure, they completely overdo that effect in movies :-)
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Like in Tron ? :-P
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X-ray wrote:
Like in Tron ? :-P
Aye, I suppose :lol:
Was that one of your favourites then?
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I think for its time it was good. I wouldn't call it an arse-fez, if that's what you mean :-D
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For the record I don't think it was an arsefez for the effects or the basic story. Just the concept of literally getting sucked into your computer in the first place :lol:
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Karlos wrote:
For the record I don't think it was an arsefez for the effects or the basic story. Just the concept of literally getting sucked into your computer in the first place :lol:
Surely not as dire as Lawnmower Man (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104692/)?
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"...Just the concept of literally getting sucked into your computer in the first place..."
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Well yes, I can see your point...and it is more applicable perhaps to you and I who believe that there is more to the individual than his physical and chemical components. But anyway I would guess that in the future there will be 'teleportation' of simpler things from one place to another, based on some kind of local destructive mapping and remote reconstruction. Some of the mappping is already being done in MRI technology. I wrote a short story involving such an experiment - I might seek your opinion on it one day.