Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: milesunder on May 25, 2005, 11:22:37 PM
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Now I am taking a wild guess here but I reckon that most people who still part of the Amiga community are thirty something’s who either have had a Amiga from around the time they first came out during the late 80's early 90's and have been a keen devotee for many years or you have the other group (which I fall in) who had a A500,A600,A1200 or CD32 when they first came out, sold them on a few years later and forgot about the scene until years later have been trying to reacquire a collection of machines they wanted when they were younger but couldn’t afford it at the time.
I am very nostalgic about Amiga’s and when I talk to other members of my peer group they share fond memories of their Amiga’s or dare I say it in this forum their Atari's. However, when I mention that there is a new Amiga called the A1 that is when the romanticising ends. People will not by the product because it generally seems all cloak and dagger and there is not enough information to justify the purchase of what is to be fair a very expensive motherboard. I for one have not contemplated purchasing one because I don’t know what software/games are available for it.
I believe Amiga Inc or whoever holds the rights to build a new generation of Amiga’s should look at a two tiered approach to the product. In addition to the A1 There should be a low cost console style Amiga which I guess similar in concept to the CD32, it could be based on the more high end A1 which would be developed at the same time to offer it’s more hard core users greater expandability over its console style brother.
I know there are already products out there in the market place which do this already like the Xbox, icube etc but the one thing that Amiga has got is the brand image. This is why the MINI has sold so well and there was a waiting list for so long. the BMW MINI as about a Mini as my little finger is, but BMW sold the idea to it's customers and they bought into it, the same as the Beetle yes it looked like the classic beetle on the outside but what people were was a over priced VW Golf with a new body and flower vase. Why do people buy Mac's or use Linux? Because it's a way of sticking two fingers up at Microsoft and the PC community because their product is perceived to do any job the PC can do but better and more securely.
Although I slated the BMW MINI (I once owned two classic Minis a few years ago) I think it is a model that the Amiga community should adopt and I know has done to a certain extent with the A1. BMW took the essence of the original MINI and effectively built it from new from the ground up (Okay it shares it's chassis with the BMW compact but that's just splitting hairs). This is what I believe should be the strategy of the Amiga community for the future. The age group that has the most disposable income and buy's the most computer games is the same age group that started of with an Amiga; the Thirty-something’s.
Build and Market an Amiga which has the spirit and essence of the early Amiga’s but has the practicality of a console and is the centre of the Digital home (Remember the CDTV) so when Dad has finished playing the retro games on the Amiga console little jimmy then uses it to do his home work and play Quake 5. Big Sis records her favourite soaps and browses the forums to find and chat to her friends. This is what the Amiga’s of yesteryear could do, they provide a complete home computer experience to their owners and they did it well.
Come on Amiga Inc there is a board out there crying out to be adapted to a low cost console styled computer. The next generation Xbox will be based on the PowerPC processor so there should be an opportunity to port games that will be released on the Xbox. Remember the one thing you have going for you is that your not Microsoft :o)
Thanks for listening
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I dont run Linux because I hate Windows. I run it because there is alot of software available and it has less problems then Windows.
People bought the new Beetle and Mini because you could take it out of the store and use it right away..you had other options like window tint, nice rims/tires, upgrades etc..
With the A1/Peg there are no upgrades. You get it out of the shop and the shop says you want upgrades, you make them yourself. LOL. Or here are a few upgrades, they aint pretty but they'll do for a little bit
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> The future of the Amiga? Is it a Lark or a Dodo
I was thinking something along the lines of Foghorn Leghorn
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> If OS are bird:
Microsoft OS: eagle
MacOS: peacock
IBM Mainframe OS: moa.
Linux: penguin.
Amiga OS: Pretosaur :)
http://www.geocities.com/originalravinray/pterosaur/
>BMW Mini
The REAL Mini BMW:
http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/bmwisetta250.html
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Amiga OS: Pretosaur :)
I like it, the Amiga Pretosaur. :-)
SLOGAN:
Even though it's been dead for millions of years, it's still a very cool "Bird"
I though about tossing my 2 cents about some other
hardware, but it's pretty much all been said before
in other threads. AmigaOS on the new Cell CPU is a new
interesting topic though.
Plaz
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What you have to understand is Amiga Inc is not interested in revitalizing the platform for the purpose of competing with the PC or even the Mac. Its sole purpose is for the users within the Amiga community. If it were actually a serious effort to create a business/home use machine, the project would have been completed years ago when Gateway owned everything.
The costs are due to the small production run and target user base.
Were it me running the show, I whole heartedly agree... A console system is the way to go. Just like the PS2 and it's predicessors, a game console with the ability to upgrade to a full-blown computer system. Then of course larger machines for game development and high-end use.
Sadly, no one of importance is interested in making anything out of the Amiga... Save of course those working on AROS.
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@milesunder
"when I mention that there is a new Amiga called the A1 that is when the romanticising ends."
It is difficult to romanticize something that barely exists or for which there is no common frame of reference.
"People will not by the product because it generally seems all cloak and dagger"
If you don't build it... they won't come!
Is it all "cloak and dagger" or is it truth that we only hope is "cloak and dagger"? We've all seen the negative stories about this website shut down, that phone line disconnected, some board manufacturer pulls the plug. Where is the counter to all of this? If people only are told the negative stuff, eventually they will come to beleive that it is true even if it isn't. It would seem to me that if Amiga, Inc. had any real interest in making the A1 and the OS fly they would at least throw us a crumb every once in a while.
"I believe Amiga Inc or whoever holds the rights to build a new generation of Amiga’s should look at a two tiered approach to the product."
Perhaps you are right, but what motivation does Amiga, Inc. has to do any of this?
"but the one thing that Amiga has got is the brand image."
hmmm... brand image Amiga vs. brand image Microsoft
hmmm... Commodore tanks ten years ago vs. Microsoft still going.
hmmm... brand recognition Amiga vs. brand recognition Microsoft
"This is what I believe should be the strategy of the Amiga community for the future."
I have nothing against the Mini's or the new Beetles, but I'm not sure that it would behoove Amiga to follow their lead. If a small entity such as Amiga, Inc was faced by some of the same quailty and durability problems as VW has faced with the Beetle, it wouldn't take long to kill them off. (assuming Amiga, Inc. still exists even now)
"Build and Market an Amiga which has the spirit and essence of the early Amiga’s"
Will that come complete with the poor customer support, bad corporate decisions and the high prices?
"Remember the one thing you have going for you is that your not Microsoft :o)"
I couldn't have said this any better!
You know I really like the Amiga, It is actually one of the better bits of enjoyment I get on a daily basis. I'm sure that many of us would like to see a "New Dawn" for the Amiga, but why is it that I can always hear a pin drop whenever anyone makes an appeal to Amiga, Inc.
How many people lurking around here have ever completed a marketing survey for Amiga, Inc. ?
Are we fooling ourselves into thinking that the A1 is for the Amiga community? This would assume that Amiga, Inc. knows what the Amiga community (or potential community) wants or even is for that matter.
-AmigaEd
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How about all the members here and amigaworld etc. Put all our money together and buy Amiga patents etc. and make our own Amigas with os4 lol :lol:
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I dont think the Amiga name-holders really care much about tapping the huge "nostalgia" fan base?
If they did, there would be all sorts of Amiga badged gadgets (not just T-shirts) you could buy from their website.
Firstly, I think they really need to concentrate energy on "re-introduction" products, the sort of things us once-were fans can impulse buy. I'm sure said products could have a reasonable markup over non-branded items and become a worthwhile revenue and advertising source.
Then, they need hardware at closer-to-PC-market-prices, say something like the Mac-MINI, an all-in-one solution you can just slot into your old PC desktop space and experience.
At the top end, you could have something like the A1 for hardcore users and developers.
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Hi Everyone!
I am an old time Amiga User. I have been using Amigas for over a decade. Although, I totally agree, that they need a cheap entrly level AmigaOne, you have to understand that right now, the os is not even done.
But, what I wanted to say, was I am so tired of everyone bashing the AmigaOne over here! I own three of them, and have quite a few friends that live in the Chicagoland area that own them as well. All I hear about it, is the hardware is outdated, there is bugs with Articia and so on and so forth. Maybe some of you should try the machine out before making judgement calls. Mine run flawlessly and it is definately an Amiga. It even impresses alot of the people I show it to, and it is in beta. Bottom line, if you want the Amiga to continue, it is time to move over! You are either with us or against us, but OS 4.0 is moving on, with or without you! Now, I am not making a judegement call about pegasos or anything like that (This is not a blue or red argument). If you want to go for the pegasos then go for it! More power to you! But do something but complain! Support one of them!
I can't go on enough about how impressive OS 4.0 is! Hyperion has done nothing short of a miracle! Can't wait for that next update. Also, I would rather have them take there time then rush some crap out the door!
My two cents.
Yogi
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I gave up on a PPC AmigOS when Phase5 went under. Say what you will about these guys, if the owners of Amiga at the time had supported them by allowing a port of the OS to PPC then things would have been much different today. Instead Amiga Inc just tried to milk the loyal 68k Amiga users for everything they could and in the end apart from OS3.9 (in 10 years since commodore died) they did nothing.
As for moving over to the A1, my 68060 A4000 does everything i need it too, and the only thing I wish for is ibrowse 2.4. If I want a fast amigaOS environment i run winuae but thats just for the hell of it not because i really need to.
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Yogi27 wrote:
[...] But, what I wanted to say, was I am so tired of everyone bashing the AmigaOne over here! I own three of them, and have quite a few friends that live in the Chicagoland area that own them as well. All I hear about it, is the hardware is outdated, there is bugs with Articia and so on and so forth.
The hardware is outdated when you compare it to what other products your money can buy. Of course it is still a vast improvement over the now practically fossilised architecture of the original Amigas. Now before people begin screaming: this is nothing but statement of fact, and in some ways, inevitable. (Science marches on, technology marches on.) The question is: does the machine do what you want? And for how much longer?
Maybe some of you should try the machine out before making judgement calls.
And that is where it all breaks down, doesn't it? Browsers, office suites, games to show off the Radeon and put the CPU through its paces, ... . I suppose one can create a system which to some extent works for a few select individuals, but I won't be one of them. Can I just ask you, out of interest, what you do with your AmigaOne's?
[...] My two cents.
And the above were mine.
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"most people who still part of the Amiga community are thirty something’s who either have had a Amiga from around the time they first came out during the late 80's early 90's and have been a keen devotee for many years"
That's not true, I'm 18 and have several amigas, I'm too young to remember the golden age, but I was drawn to the community, and the machine because it's simply quicker than chuggy old windows and they're just fun to use once you get your head round it :-)
Robert
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And that is where it all breaks down, doesn't it? Browsers, office suites, games to show off the Radeon and put the CPU through its paces, ... . I suppose one can create a system which to some extent works for a few select individuals, but I won't be one of them. Can I just ask you, out of interest, what you do with your AmigaOne's?
In my case, coding. That's what it needs the most, by the way.
And it's very fun, too :-)
Varthall
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Coding... Yes, you have everything you need for that: a decent editor and a good compiler. And a debugger, but Real Men don't use a debugger.
I am not a Real Man.
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Dr_Righteous wrote:
The costs are due to the small production run and target user base.
Which is why I wonder why in hell they even bothered with hardware at all. Stand on the shoulders of others and use their hardware, you'll reach higher.
They can spout all the reasons the have for their hardware decisions till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, if it's not in my best interests, who cares?
I just hope all the problems surrounding the current hardware don't kill the OS. That would be a crying shame.
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Greetings,
What make me stick with my classics is the Programming language it has. You'd probably quote me on this...
I love AmosPro, blitzbasic(amiblitz) and StormC all for the fun of creating, coding, games devs. I thinks there are others I didn't mention that offers almost the same capabilities as the later that makes this classics a fun machine to code, debug, or program it...
Only problem is... I too lazy to finish what I start most of the time. :-D
Regards,
GiZz72
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gizz72 wrote:
Greetings,
What make me stick with my classics is the Programming language it has. You'd probably quote me on this...
I love AmosPro, blitzbasic(amiblitz) and StormC all for the fun of creating, coding, games devs. I thinks there are others I didn't mention that offers almost the same capabilities as the later that makes this classics a fun machine to code, debug, or program it...
Only problem is... I too lazy to finish what I start most of the time. :-D
Regards,
GiZz72
Have you tried SDLBasic? It's good fun... you can put an entire idea together about 10 min!
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by Yogi27 on 2005/5/26 7:42:40
You are either with us or against us,
Nasty little Red Troll! Go back to Neverneverland (http://www.amigaworld.net) and be happy with life of worrying if MAI bought the farm leaving Eyetech without chips. :lol:
Dammy
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The costs are due to the small production run and target user base.
What's really sad is that despite the decision to use small volume hardware, it didn't have any compatibility modifications whatsoever compared to vanilla x86 machines. At the very least, a custom floppy drive controller would have been nice.
They can spout all the reasons the have for their hardware decisions till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, if it's not in my best interests, who cares?
It's painfully ironic that, given the classic Amiga's custom chip design and emphasis on coprossesing, the PowerPC CPU alone was the only thing that mattered when it came to deciding the future platform.
Hyperion said that the future for PowerPC was very bright. People point to the next generation game consoles as a representation of what's possible with PowerPC. Cell is essentially a whole computer on a chip with several FPU units and cost untold millions to engineer, and only follows a narrow set of standards. Stock PPC chips only keep up with x86, and aren't really any cheaper. If the chip is so grand and has little legacy baggage, why doesn't it simply blow away x86?
The insane amount of heat generated by x86 CPUs is due to market demand, not a slack of engineering. People want hot CPUs that are fast, so that's what they get. Transmeta and Athlons that went up in smoke presented new issues, and now we have Pentium M among other choices. Transmeta's future is seriously in question as a result, and PPC is still not working it's way into the mainstream desktop market. ARM pretty much rules the handheld market, too.
People really need to get over their obsession with technical supiriority. It leads to focusing only on a small portion of the total problem. The Amiga needs an OS, killer dev tools, and a slick new graphical interface. It doesn't need another sales pitch as to why CPU A is better than CPU B, and why Amigans really should feel obligated to pay hundreds more for hardware based on standards several years old.
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Hi,
Just found this forum while looking for MP3 remixes of some tunes I grew to love during my time with an Amiga, two of which I still own...
I'm a thirty-something. Was introduced to the Amiga when the Amiga A500 with Kickstart 1.2 came out. After that I learnt to code, joined a couple "scene" groups, released some software, made some great friends along the way and had some of my most memorable moments at gatherings.
I'm glad I was a part of that scene.
If a new Amiga was to be released it'd scare me immensely.
The Amiga has a cult following, much like the Commodore 64. There are many sites showing how great the Amiga was and still is. You can tell by the number of users who proudly exclaim their work on remixing the music, remixing the graphics or what-not.
When I got my PC the first thing I did was transfer all of my floppy disks and the contents of my hard drive (1.4GB took some time!) onto the PC and burnt it onto a CD-ROM. In some cases I had to write software myself to read the trackdos disks and write them to a file.
I bet everyone has a favourite film from when they were younger, I have. Kign Arthur and the Spaceman. I saw it recently and my childhood dreams of the film were shattered. I wish I never watched it again, instead keeping what I remembered of the film untouched.
The same goes for the Amiga. I've had so much pleasure from the machine and so many great memories that have been brought to me from using it that personally I want to keep those memories like they are... gold dust.
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dammy wrote:
by Yogi27 on 2005/5/26 7:42:40
You are either with us or against us,
Nasty little Red Troll! Go back to Neverneverland (http://www.amigaworld.net) and be happy with life of worrying if MAI bought the farm leaving Eyetech without chips. :lol:
Dammy
Sure if Amiga.org become again a OS4/A1 slandering forum. Anyway usually are not OS4/A1 users to open these threads....
Ppost like yours really makes me happy to be an aw.net member. Enjoy your trolling.
@all
The thing finally are getting better, new hardware and new incredible OS. At least this is my opionion and i'm a very happy OS4 user.
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:roflmao:@ikir
Black, kettle, pot :-P.
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ikir wrote:
dammy wrote:
by Yogi27 on 2005/5/26 7:42:40
You are either with us or against us,
Nasty little Red Troll! Go back to Neverneverland (http://www.amigaworld.net) and be happy with life of worrying if MAI bought the farm leaving Eyetech without chips. :lol:
Dammy
Sure if Amiga.org become again a OS4/A1 slandering forum. Anyway usually are not OS4/A1 users to open these threads....
Ppost like yours really makes me happy to be an aw.net member. Enjoy your trolling.
@all
The thing finally are getting better, new hardware and new incredible OS. At least this is my opionion and i'm a very happy OS4 user.
New hardware? The uA1c has been out since before xmas, i'd hardly call it new.
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by ikir on 2005/5/28 8:33:44
Quote:
dammy wrote:
by Yogi27 on 2005/5/26 7:42:40
Quote:
You are either with us or against us,
Nasty little Red Troll! Go back to Neverneverland and be happy with life of worrying if MAI bought the farm leaving Eyetech without chips.
Dammy
Sure if Amiga.org become again a OS4/A1 slandering forum. Anyway usually are not OS4/A1 users to open these threads....
Ppost like yours really makes me happy to be an aw.net member. Enjoy your trolling.
Let's see here, your pissed off at my sarcastic reply to a "You are either with us or against us..." which is a rather paranoid and tunnel vision statement to make, and you claim I am a troll for it? I see, you rather be in the protected little world where people can freely make "You are either with us or against us..." post without fear of being slammed for posting such a stupid remark. But if that floats your boat, go for it.
Dammy
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The future of the Amiga? Is it a Lark or a Dodo
It's a Phoenix! :-D
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Honestly, at the end of the day I just want a new classic Amiga with some updated hardware. Give me the AAA chipset that was promised, addressing 8MB of chipram... Give me a 68060 with a clock speed in 3 or 4 digits... and have it address faster memory (SDRAM or better). Give me ZorroII/III AND PCI expansion slots. Give me high speed serial ports that will allow me to run my 56K modem at full speed. USB/Firewire would me nice. Throw it all on an ATX style board so I can put it all into a tricked-out case to show off! And last but not least, a kick-ass case badge.
Now nothing against the A1... The step forward is great. I just want new old stuff, cheaply.
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And I'd like a swimming pool and immortality. :-D
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Dr_Righteous wrote:
Honestly, at the end of the day I just want a new classic Amiga with some updated hardware. Give me the AAA chipset that was promised, addressing 8MB of chipram... Give me a 68060 with a clock speed in 3 or 4 digits... and have it address faster memory (SDRAM or better). Give me ZorroII/III AND PCI expansion slots. Give me high speed serial ports that will allow me to run my 56K modem at full speed. USB/Firewire would me nice. Throw it all on an ATX style board so I can put it all into a tricked-out case to show off! And last but not least, a kick-ass case badge.
Although it's not exactly what you're looking for, the hobby project I'm thinking about taking on isn't far off. http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16757 Admittedly, it's nothing more than fantasy vapor at the moment, but I am going to give it a serious try.
Out of curiousity, why is it that you want Zorro II/III slots? Apart from video toaster hardware, I can't think of much that doesn't have a faster/cheaper equivalent in PCI.
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The future of the Amiga? Is it a Lark or a Dodo
Il bet it will be the same as it has been for the last 5 years even 5 more years people my age(22) and even younger seem to have a general intererst for the retro part off the mashine and after my friends had played around with mine they orderd their own a1200 connected it to a projector and still have fun with it. The way i see it amiga may get more and more wanted dont know about the a1 tho.
adonay:-D
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@Dammy
I think you'll find that he was referring to the "Nasty Little Red Troll" out of order comment you made.