Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: on March 08, 2003, 07:53:29 PM
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I have a Apple PowerBook G3. Will Amiga OS4 run on the ppc based computer apple produces. I would like to get a tri-boot system up on my laptop (Mac Classic, LInux, Amiga OS)
My first continuous encounter with computers was the Amiga 1000 and I have fond memories of that wonderful machine back in 85.
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I am sorry but AmigaOS 4 will only run on AmigaONE PPC board and old Amiga 1200 & 4000 with some types of PPC accelerator !!!
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Maybe we don't have good news for you about your machine and OS4, but we welcome you to our site
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Thanks for the welcome. My father bought the Amiga 1000 in the fall of 1985. I spent many hours on it playing the game Hacker. The toughest part was cracking the password(australia). I also enjoyed paint. Being that it was the only color graphical personal computer at the time. Bullrun was another game I enjoyed. Bullrun was a American Civil War Simulator.
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If you look on top of the "VideoMicrowave" you will see an Apple titanium running Morphos ( MOL I believe)
(http://www.mindrelease.net/woase/images/Pic15Microwave_jpg.jpg)
I'm sure BBRV can put you straight on that one.... !!
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Morphos will come on a cd wich you can boot on your Apple machine. How and when I am not sure but this was the plan.
Coder
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The"B-Plan" ???
:-D
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I have used MOL(Mac on Linux). It simply runs a mac enviroment on top of Linux.
I'm interested in developing apps for the Amiga. I have read a little about the Amiga SDK, what is the primary computer language for Amiga?
My dad was a die hard Amiga user. Around 94-95 he got his AmigaCD-32 to run as a 1200. He surfed the internet on that thing. I tried to get the AmigaCD-32 configured as the 1200, but had no luck. My dad took that secret with when he passed away. Dad said the Amiga was light years ahead of Windows and Mac. And the corporates at the time really missed an opportunity back in the pc wars to get a substantial market share.
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My dad was a die hard Amiga user. Around 94-95 he got his AmigaCD-32 to run as a 1200. He surfed the internet on that thing. I tried to get the AmigaCD-32 configured as the 1200, but had no luck. My dad took that secret with when he passed away. Dad said the Amiga was light years ahead of Windows and Mac. And the corporates at the time really missed an opportunity back in the pc wars to get a substantial market share.
Im sure someone will be able to help you.
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@araknoid
MOL runs every OF-compatible OS, so you could run Linux on Linux
(not much use for that) or MOS-on-Linux.
This would require some extra drivers which are not included in the
semi-public versions of MorphOS I can get.
The AmigaSDK has NOTHING to do with the Amiga except for the name.
It is just a rebadged version of intent running on Windows or (older)
Linuxes.
For real Amiga-programming C(++) with gcc is the most common and
sensible idea as this is what supported nby all next-gen AmigaOSes.
Turning a CD32 into an A1200, that was probraly one of these (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/cd32accel.html)
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araknoid wrote:
I have a Apple PowerBook G3. Will Amiga OS4 run on the ppc based computer apple produces.
Welcome, you spiderish person you! :)
There are no technical reasons preventing a port of AmigaOS to New World Macs, and if one would like an AmigaOS PPC laptop, there aren't all that many options but PowerBooks... There is no more custom Amiga hardware, so excluding the most common and cheapest consumer PPC platform doesn't make sense IMO.
This is not allowed to happen though. AmigaOS will not be sold separate from hardware, and hardware allowed to run AmigaOS will only be available from "special" licensed distributors. The only "new" such hardware are Teron motherboards, but only after they have been renamed and only when they are distributed by a company called Eyetech. An added "dongle" in the shape of extra code in a ROM on the renamed Terons will guarantee that you can't buy a Teron from anyone but Eyetech.
You might want to check out this site (http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/intro.html) for more of my and over 900 others' opinion on this. Yes, it's been discussed here before... :)
My first continuous encounter with computers was the Amiga 1000 and I have fond memories of that wonderful machine back in 85.
You lucky sod! :) At that time I used my C-64 to draw pics with Koala paint of the Dream Machine that I could never afford. :)
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HMmm. sounds like a CD on auto repeat.
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Hi araknoid, and welcome to Amiga.org. Always nice to see new people. :-)
As has been pointed out before, OS4 will not run on Macs. If you want to run the next AmigaOS you should get an AmigaOne, as this is the only licenced motherboard available at this point. You could also run it on an A1200 or A4000 with a PPC accelerator, but the high price and relatively poor performance makes this a far less attractive solution. I myself am currently waiting for an AmigaOneG4-XE. :-D
Kay
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How do I get an Amiga One? How much will it cost? I have a AmigaCD32.
Are there any Amiga Laptops out there?
I am ready to return to the Amiga Computing world.
Boing Boing Boing
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@araknoid
1) There are no new Amigas yet, and definitely no new Amiga laptops. Wait until there's actually an OS to go along with the name.
2) IIRC Bill Buck said he bought one of the key MorphOS developers a Titanium PowerBook, presumably to port MorphOS to it. I haven't heard any further developments however.
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@araknoid
Excuse me if you already know, but since you're new, you might have missed that today there are two competing solutions (in development).
One is "AmigaOS4" which components are currently developed by Hyperion mainly on Classic-Amigas with the PPC-boards from the former Phase5.
It's intended to run on the so-called "AmigaOne" later, distributed by Eyetech, who simply resell a reference-design PPC-board by the northbridge-manufacturer MAI called "Teron". You could buy some of these Terons/AmigaOnes already, but currently the more appropiate name would rather be "LinuxOne", since OS4 is not ready yet. In fact, at least very few weeks ago it had not even all components integrated together yet (especially a key part, the emulation, is missing), so that it's not even in real betatest yet (just it's components for itself).
The current "Amiga Inc." (since 2000) plays, as in the years before, no major role in all this, they just gave licenses for the use of the trademarks and the source-code of AmigaOS 3.1 (the source-code for 3.5 & 3.9 is owned by Haage&Partner who developed those updates back then). Hyperion have even to acquire the money for the OS-development themselves, so OS4 is basically their's but might be bought back by AI later.
On the other hand there is Genesi (http://www.genesi.lu), who's key developers (HW&SW) are from the former Phase5- and CGFX-RTG-teams, i.e. among others the guys who brought the first and only PPC-CPU-boards to the 68k-Amigas.
Genesi have developed their own PPC-board called Pegasos, which does have a few additional features compared to the Teron and is smaller (microATX).
Furthermore they've developed their own, AmigaOS-compatible OS called MorphOS. MorphOS is already even in public betatest for many, many monthes. Both, Pegasos and MorphOS, can be bought by plain end-users for some time already - although just in limited quantities yet because of continued delivery-shortfalls of the northbridge-manufacturer Mai (see above).
Therefore Genesi got fed up with them and cancelled the Pegasos-I in favour of the currently developed Pegasos-II which will have another manufacturer's northbridge (from Marvell).
A more detailed overview you can find at MorphOS-News.de (http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en&nid=154&si=1), it's a report done from the official launch of the Pegasos-I at the "Amiga- & Retro-Computing-Show" in Aachen, Germany, last year. It's not up-to-date anymore, though (see above, e.g. regarding the Pegasos-II and Marvell), but should be sufficient for a first impression.
In case you've further questions or might even get interested in developing for this platform, you could contact Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck of Genesi at bbrv@genesi.lu.
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> How do I get an Amiga One? How much will it cost? I have a AmigaCD32.
It can be ordered from one of these dealers (http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/dealers.php). The price is a bit steep, unfortunately, although this shouldn't be a problem if you're used to Apple hardware ;-). There are three different models, with prices ranging from approximately 580 Euro to 800 Euro. Apart from the motherboard, you can use standard PC components when building your system, provided there are drivers available. Feel free to ask if you need more info about this.
> Are there any Amiga Laptops out there?
Unfortunately, no. There have been custom made ones, but nothing has ever hit mass production. Unless you have the skill to build one yourself, your best option would be to get a Laptop PC and run one an Amiga emulator on it.
> I am ready to return to the Amiga Computing world.
:-D Glad to hear that! Feel free to ask here should you ever need any advice.
Kay
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> 1) There are no new Amigas yet, and definitely no new Amiga laptops. Wait until there's actually
> an OS to go along with the name.
The machines are here now, even though the OS is not. Still, it's not like the motherboard can't be used without AmigaOS. They currently run both LinuxPPC and MacOS (through MOL). If you don't mind playing around with these OS's while waiting for AmigaOS, buying the machines now makes perfect sense, as OS4 is thrown in for free when you order early.
Kay
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@Senex:
> One is "AmigaOS4" which components are currently developed by Hyperion mainly on
> Classic-Amigas with the PPC-boards from the former Phase5.
Although I know you don't like it, the name is AmigaOS4, not "AmigaOS4".
> It's intended to run on the so-called "AmigaOne" later, distributed by Eyetech, who
> simply resell a reference-design PPC-board by the northbridge-manufacturer MAI called "Teron".
Once again, it's AmigaOne, not "AmigaOne". Anyway, I see you are making an effort to make it sound like Eyetech is somehow being dishonest. It's true that the AmigaOne is pretty identical to the Teron. The difference is that the AmigaOne is licensed so that it will run AmigaOS. That is what Eyetech, a Mai distributor, is adding to the Teron.
> The current "Amiga Inc." (since 2000) plays, as in the years before, no major role in all this,
> they just gave licenses for the use of the trademarks and the source-code of AmigaOS 3.1
Yes, as we all know, OS4 development is lead by Hyperion. Their enormous dedication to the platform and experience in porting software from 68k to PPC makes them a good choice in my opinion. AmigaInc are working on the AmigaDE, which is planned to be integrated in AmigaOS at a later point.
> (the source-code for 3.5 & 3.9 is owned by Haage&Partner who developed those updates back then).
Not quite true. There were more developers contributing to 3.5 and 3.9. While it is true that H&P were unwilling to cooperate with Hyperion, these developers weren't. So AmigaOS4 is based on 3.1, and parts of 3.5 and 3.9.
> In fact, at least very few weeks ago it had not even all components integrated together yet
> (especially a key part, the emulation, is missing), so that it's not even in real betatest
> yet (just it's components for itself).
I suggest you leave commenting on the current status of the project to someone who is actually involved with it.
> Hyperion have even to acquire the money for the OS-development themselves,
Nothing wrong with that. They fund it, they make it, they sell it.
> Genesi have developed their own PPC-board called Pegasos, which does have a few additional
> features compared to the Teron and is smaller (microATX).
The differences are very slight, and there are a few advantages to the AmigaOne as well. For example it currently has a G4 module, and it has an extra PCI slot. Still, I'd agree that the Pegasos is nice, especially considering the price point. The downside is that it will probably not run AmigaOS anytime soon (in spite of Bill Buck's appeal to "clever boys and girls" to crack the protection).
> although just in limited quantities yet because of continued delivery-shortfalls of the
> northbridge-manufacturer Mai (see above).
If that's really the case, I guess it just means that Mai have their priorities elsewhere. Genesi publicly slamming their products could have something to do with it (pure speculation on my part here).
> In case you've further questions or might even get interested in developing for this platform,
> you could contact Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck of Genesi at bbrv@genesi.lu.
Yes, it's always a good idea to get the information from the horse's mouth. One thing I'd like to add, though: If they say anything about AmigaOS4 or the AmigaOne, you should take it with a bucket of salt. FUD seems to be a major part of Genesi's business strategy.
Kay
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If you look on top of the "VideoMicrowave" you will see an Apple titanium running Morphos ( MOL I believe)
This was just a backdrop image.
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>PowerPC notebook
Hello
8 years ago, TADPOLE created PowerPC 601 notebook for IBM, but the product was discontinued.
Now they sell Notebook based on SUN SPARC CPUs.
Perhaps Amiga Inc and Tadpole can reach agreement about manufacturing PowerPC notebook using Amiga brand.
Tadpole (http://www.gilanet.com/Ohlandl/RS6000/7007-n40.html)
SPARC notebook (http://hw.tadpole.com/html/)
Another option is "Do It Yourself" upgradable notebook / laptop from Taiwan (Asus, ECS). Perhaps someday they will provide PowerPC CPU + chipset module.
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...be nice Kay.
:-)
Yes, we will have a CD-bootable MorphOS for Apple owners (2004). But, we will not be selling the OS. We will selling the online game and it will run from the CD without reconfiguring the hard drive of the host computer. Do you know the story of the Trojan Horse?
;-)
Hey, we thought we should post here...we were mentioned! :-D
R&B
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> ...be nice Kay.
I always try to be nice, although in your case I've given up, and settled for "fair".
Kay
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OK Kay, so be *fair* about reviewing this idea...
The Trojan Horse: a new game for Apple Computer Owners
The Trojan Horse was an instrument of war used by the Greeks to gain access to the city of Troy. Greek myth states that the conflict which started the war took place at the wedding feast of King Peleus (king of Pthia), and Thetis (the goddess of the sea). All gods and goddesses were invited except for one. Eris, the goddess of Discord was outraged because she was the only divine being not invited. Eris threw a golden *apple* into the midst of the party. The words "To the most beautiful" were inscribed on the apple. Naturally, more than one goddess claimed the apple. Hera, Athena and Aphrodite each wanted the apple. Then the problems started. A man named named Paris was to be the judge of who was the most beautiful.
Editors Note: we stop the story here to explain what until today was an unknown element of the myth. :-o There was a fourth goddess...Morphina!
:-D
Back to the story...
Paris was the son of Priam, who was the king of Troy. The goddesses tempted him with many gifts such as power and love, but he picked Aphrodite as the most beautiful (His gift from Aphrodite was the most beautiful, mortal woman in the world). At this time Helen of Troy was the most beautiful woman in the world, but she was married to King Menelaus of Sparta. Aphrodite put a spell on Helen so that she would go with Paris. Paris would have the Queen of Troy to himself, and Aphrodite's obligation to give the most beautiful woman would be fulfilled.
Editors Note #2: Actually, in our version of the game the question is not whether or not she goes with Paris. The question becomes whether or not the winner COMES to Paris...you know, where we have an office! :-D
OK, back to the story again...
When Paris came to visit, Helen left with him to return to Troy.
Enraged, the Greek king launched a fleet of one thousand ships to go to Troy and retrieve Helen. Helen's was "the face that launched a thousand ships."
(I personally would have picked Raquel, but that is another story. :-) )
Many main characters of the Greek epics and myths were involved in the siege of Troy. Achilles and Odysseus were only a couple (there was also Ralph, Gerald, Thomas, Frank, Thierry, Nicolas, Bertrand, Sebastien, Nicholas and even Rakesh and Sharwin just to name a few!).
For ten years, the Greeks had lain siege to the city of Troy without success of getting into the city, or with getting Helen back. The layout and build of the city walls made the ancient metropolis impenetrable. After Achilles left the war, the Greeks' progress slowed to almost a dead stop. Troy was not going to be taken by sheer numbers.
The Trojans, led by Hector, began to repel the Greeks.
Eventually the Greeks were driven back to their own ships. Achilles rejoined the battle, and killed Hector to avenge a good friend's death. Greek morale shot through the roof!
The Greeks needed a war machine (sort of like a new platform so to speak). The siege machines of the time weren't getting the Greeks anywhere. They needed something new. So the Greeks devised a plan and put it to work.
The Greeks built a giant, wooden horse with a hollow belly. A handful of armed Greeks climbed into the hollow opening, and sealed it up. Meanwhile, the rest of the Greek army piled into their ships and sailed away. Due to a convincing Greek spy (we are thinking of hiring Jobs after Gates fires him ;-) ), the Trojans came out of Troy to receive the huge horse as an offering of peace (for the game you understand this is a CD, right? :-) ). The Trojans rejoiced at the thought of the Greek army running away like dogs.
The Trojans then decided to celebrate. By nightfall the whole city was in a drunken uproar (sounds like Comdex 2004!). They celebrated far into the night. In the small hours of the morning, while everyone was drunk or asleep, the Greeks unsealed the belly of the horse, and climbed down from it. Silently, they killed the Trojan sentries at all the city gates. The GATES were then opened to the bulk of the Greek army. In their drunkenness, the Trojans did not see the Greek fleet return to their shores. (Thanks Mr. Gates!)
Morals from the Story:
The bigger they are the harder they fall!
Things to do:
We need to hire Alkis Tsapanidis to build up our Greek influence. We already have Takis Tsiricos on the team.
Best Game Play Result:
The beautiful Morphina becomes an "amiga" to all and is ultimately awarded the Apple!
Final Note: OK, enough goofing off!!! :lol: Back to work!
Have a happy Sunday!
Just Bill ;-)
Sources:
Quoted liberally from the Joshua D. webpage
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> OK Kay, so be *fair* about reviewing this idea...
Look, I don't really care about your plans for MOS. The times when I care about your actions at all is when they affect the Amiga or Amiga companies somehow. I'm sure someone else here cares about MOS for Mac, have them review your idea.
Kay
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:-o
Kay=Mr. Grumpy
Oh no, Mr. Bill!
8-)
(That is a Saturday Night Live reference for you youngsters. :-D )
Raquel and Bill
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> Kay=Mr. Grumpy
Sorry about that, I didn't intend to come across as grumpy. I just truly, honestly don't care about MOS.
:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
There, that should do. :-)
Kay
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[Pssst Kay... er, its a joke! :-D ]
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Word.
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@BBRV
So morhpos is nothing more than a TROJAN?!?!? :-D :-D :-D
;-)
Nice little story btw.
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Kay,
I have read your posts and consider you to be a fair and knowledgable person.
The times when I care about your actions at all is when they affect the Amiga or Amiga companies somehow.
Specifically?
I'm a developer and I'm going to be getting a Pegasos for $299, thanks to co-operation between Genesi and Phoenix Developer Consortium (PDC). PDC is like a user group for developers, which I am a member of. R&B really want to get the market kickstarted again. Everyone who works for Genesi is friendly and helpful, something AmigaInc hasn't shown.
Genesi isn't stopping me from running AmigaOS4 on the Pegasos. That would be Eyetech's *protectionist* approach to the Amiga market. You know, you will only be *allowed* to run AmigaOS4 on the hardware supplied by Eyetech. Sounds like a *ghetto (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ghetto)* to me.
This is the complete opposite of what Fleecy talked about when AmigaInc started up after Gateway. Think ''zico spec'.
This situation is NOT fair to the rest of the market, whether you are a hardware company who makes a nice microATX PowerPC based motherboard ..or.. an online retailer or distributer who have to compete with Eyetech. That exclusive deal between Eyetech and AmigaInc would be viewed as a *Conflict of interest* in a true open market.
Eyetech have this belief that everyone who buys an Amiga is a software pirate. They should drop this attitude.
When I used an Amiga (I still have 3, just packed away), I bought all the applications and the upgrades, I really supported the market.
I spent over $3500 on Amiga hardware & software, this was between Gateway ownership and the current regime. I really believed that the Amiga would return under new ownership, but I feel I made a mistake then.
As for Genesi Pegasos.. I think $299 is a fair price for a developer board. :-D
I strongly believe that anyone who buys an AmigaONE in this current market situation is going to get burned like I was a few years ago.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not Anti-amigaInc/Eyetech/Hyperion.. I just don't like how business operates in this market. I want change. I demand change.
The companies that operate business how I want it will get my support.
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@Darth_X
I Realy wish you & other ppl who are going for Pegasos/MOS stoped repling as if your Genesi's PR Dept...
& all i see is talk talk talk.
from both sides.
You talk as if no one has an Aone.
Untill MOS is sold to run on hardware that they dont make money from then there is no difference tfrom Aone/Aos4.
MOS userversion only comes with the Peg.
I dont care what they say what they plant to do.
I care when it is.
PPL who want Aone/Aos4 want Aone/Oas4 cos they want Aone/Aos4 not cos they think its better than Pegasos/MOS.
Its not all about whats better its about what sutes you.
There is only one good reason why ppl choose a Apple Mac over a PC.
Style,feeling ect...
If better is whats its all about then there would only be one computer platfrom with one OS.
Plus this thread was nothing to do with MOS/Peg but ofcorse ppl who are for Peg/MOS had to distroy it.
Most ppl who are for Aone/Aos4 dont care for the politics.
Just like the poster of this thread he talks about what he wants to do with his Aone/Aos4 setup & there have been many threads like it.
with ppl just saying oh in really looking forword to my Aone/Aos4 & not a peep about the Peg/MOS.
If someone wants Aone/AOS4 then leave them be.
I dont have ago at ppl who want Peg/MOS just cos they want Peg/MOS.
I dont tell them not to get one if thats what they are asking for then fine.
If someone wants an apple & i have apples i will sell them apples.
If i only got oranges then tough i cant help them.
I would not try to force them to take my oranges with PR HEY Oranges a\re better for you than apple & this & thats. he most likley dont give a damn. like We all only eat what best for us.
We eat what WE want not what best. most of the time.
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Well, have you seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
Oh I can see it now.. Bill Buck as Arthur, his knights, riding coconut
versions of the pegasos, searching the Holy Grail - "The True Amiga",
Steve Jobs as Guy "he already got one" de Lambert, living in his Apple
castle. I can imagine the trojan morphos CD will bounce out of the mac
camp very much the same way that trojan bunny bounced out from the
castle of Guy de Lambert.
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Hi Alkemyst!
Do you think I should talk to Genesi about hiring me for their worldwide PR dept? :-D
I was only relating my own personal experiences, not just as a user, but also as someone wanting to become a developer. Basically, I was talking about supporting the companies who operate their businesses properly, and NOT supporting the companies who do not.
*Looks at his own post* I don't see where I made any comment about Pegasos hardware being better than AmigaONE in this post. I was refering to how I prefer the open market nature of Genesi compared to what is happening from AmigaInc.
Should I apologise for wanting to work hard to make this market a better place?
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whats its all about then there would only be one computer platfrom with one OS
This is the exact thinking that Microsoft and Intel would like everyone to believe!
Is Microsoft right?
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> I have read your posts and consider you to be a fair and knowledgable person.
Why, thank you! :-)
> Specifically?
No, generally :-P. Okay, I mostly react when BBRV makes statements which are apparently intended to hurt AmigaOne sales, or to defame Amiga people and companies. I don't want to go into details, as most such statements have been discussed to death already.
> Genesi isn't stopping me from running AmigaOS4 on the Pegasos. That would be Eyetech's
> *protectionist* approach to the Amiga market. You know, you will only be *allowed* to run
> AmigaOS4 on the hardware supplied by Eyetech. Sounds like a *ghetto* to me.
As far as I've understood, the deal Eyetech has is not exclusive at all, and Eyetech formally has no say when it comes to what other platforms OS4 will run on. Genesi *could* have gotten the same deal, if they had accepted the licencing conditions. I'd be surprised if Hyperion would want to work with them now though, considering some of the statements which have been made. Genesi claims that they wouldn't mind OS4 on the Pegasos, but when they in the same post claim that Hyperion's MP is lying about his profession, I somehow feel that they are not sincere.
> I strongly believe that anyone who buys an AmigaONE in this current market situation is
> going to get burned like I was a few years ago.
I strongly disagree, but we will find out soon enough.
> The companies that operate business how I want it will get my support.
I agree with that philosophy. And for that reason BBRV will not receive my support.
Kay
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> This is the exact thinking that Microsoft and Intel would like everyone to believe!
Start naming companies that don't operate like that. Commodore did it. Apple do it even more furius than M$ themselfes. I really have a hard time coming up with a single company that doesn't. And don't come and say that Genesi doesn't. Just mention "MOS on x86" and see what happens.
There are no saints, just corporations.
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Oh, oh, now I know!!!
Linux companies! RedHat, n stuff. I run RH7.3 myself.
Ok, not all companies operate like that. So when do Morph go open-source then (couldn't resist)?
Don't take this post too seriusly...
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@JetRacer
Start naming companies that don't operate like that. Commodore did it. Apple do it even more furius than M$ themselfes. I really have a hard time coming up with a single company that doesn't. And don't come and say that Genesi doesn't. Just mention "MOS on x86" and see what happens.
Corporations can choose to operate their business correctly or incorrectly. It is up to us as consumers to be the watchdog and make sure they all treat us properly! If we are constantly feeding them (ie: $50) and not getting anything in return (not even a measily t-shirt!) what good does that do us?
MOS on x86? Hmmm. PowerPC is better suited (if you want technical reasons, we could do a whole new post on the subject), of course I'd prefer a SMP multiprocessor system. x86 don't adapt too well to that type of environment, otherwise there would be more dual and quad processor PCs around. I know there are a few power users out there.. but let's be honest... dual processor PCs are not cheap! And AMD processors run extremely hot! :-D
So when do Morph go open-source then (couldn't resist)?
Open Source has good points and bad points. FREE is good.
One bad point about open source is the horrific BLOATWARE applications it creates.
How about controlled-source that is open to internal developers and the resulting application is freely-distributable to everyone?
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Please Mr Bill,
Don't say words like "Greeks". please don't!
Why this bothers me? I think it's a word that not anyone can use....
P.S.
I am always gentle with all the people in this site and I am trying hard with some people....
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(edit: the following is not directed towards Kostas, but the previus poster)
That's a hole lot of unecessary words.
No SMP...? Where have you been all this time? Besides, where do you find the PPC vs x86 post? It shure wasn't me. I'm not pro-x86. And RH is bloat, I agree.
> How about controlled-source that is open to internal developers and the resulting application is freely-distributable to everyone?
Radical :-)
No, seriusly. Give it a rest will ya. Grab a coke, howl at the moon and bash your head into a tree. Or whatever you do to relax. Personally I do the CHB.
Now it's official: I can't be serius for the rest of the evening (pscht! aoooooo! bonk!).
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As far as I've understood, the deal Eyetech has is not exclusive at all, and Eyetech formally has no say when it comes to what other platforms OS4 will run on
Eyetech mention that AmigaOS4 will only run on Eyetech AmigaONE systems. Also, they won't sell AmigaOS4 upgrade kits (including the Hyperion made BIOS/firmware and AmigaOS4) to Teron (ie: Terrasoft boxer) motherboard owners. Hmmm.. sounds pretty exclusive to me.
This is not FUD. This is what they told me in an email. I was very disapointed. Please don't take my opinion on this, it's better to email Eyetech for yourself. :-D
>> The companies that operate business how I want it will get my support.
> I agree with that philosophy. And for that reason BBRV will not receive my support.
Me doesn't understand? :-? I love BBRV's sarcastic sense of humous, I often find myself nearly falling out of my chair laughing. Its been so long since there's been anyone with a cool sense of humour.
*current market situation*
What I meant here was that I don't like to see the Amiga market limited to what Eyetech pawn.
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Jetracer:
I think you have really cool ideas, don't let my moody nature bother you.. I just haven't slept in the past 24 hours... :-o
If you or anyone else reading this has COOL ideas to make this marketplace bigger better BADDER and stronger, feel free to post those ideas here! I know I want to hear them! :-D
:roflmao:
We had a snow storm here overnight.. and I just ran out of Coke!
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. I'm suffering!!!
:roflmao:
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> Eyetech mention that AmigaOS4 will only run on Eyetech AmigaONE systems.
At the moment, that is true, but I don't think that means they have any power to keep it away from other HW platforms in the future. To the best of my knowledge, Eyetech has no ownership over AmigaOS4 at all. If Genesi got themselves a licence to have AmigaOS4 running on the Pegasos, Eyetech would have no power to stop them. Considering Genesi's current relations with Amiga Inc and Hyperion, though, I doubt they will be getting a license in the near future.
> Me doesn't understand? I love BBRV's sarcastic sense of humous, I often find myself nearly
> falling out of my chair laughing.
If you seriously have no idea why I would dislike his behaviour, then for the sake of peace, I must answer: Never mind. If you REALLY want to know, send me a PM. We are already OT, and I do not wish this to become another flamewar.
Kay
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Flamewars are over!
We have to prepare the Trojan Horse!!!
:-D
R&B
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I wonder how long it'll take me to find Achilles' heel.
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There is only one good reason why ppl choose a Apple Mac over a PC.
Style,feeling ect...
Bullshit.
Mac are easier to use. Time = money, PCs are therefore expensive. It has nothing to do with style.
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Bullshit.
Mac are easier to use. Time = money, PCs are therefore expensive. It has nothing to do with style.
For You it was ease of use bit that dont mean thats the reason for all.
I have used PC's & Macs & i find them just as hard as each other on first encounter.
All thing will become easyer once you get used to each system.
So if on first encounter someone finds both as hard as each other before.
the easy of use will not be the issue at all has they would of not soent enough time with each to decide that.
Looks & eyecandy & style goes a long way.
I only found amiga os to be easy strate from the start.
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Mac are easier to use. Time = money, PCs are therefore expensive. It has nothing to do with style.
No mac aren´t easy to use. No shell , throw disks in the trashcan to get them ejected.
windows is no easy to use either, no controölover installations, difficult to configure.
I actually find unix easier to use than both mac and windows it´s the power of the shell and configuration=editing textfiles that makes me fell in control of the computer not the other way around.
Which programs are most popular on the platforms
Mac: Photoshop,DTP,videoediting,audioprograms
Windows: Outlook, Office, Explorer, Kazaa, Office, ,Morpheus, Office, Mediaplayer, Office, games ,Office
Linux/Unix: gcc,apache, mysql, javac, perl, pine, mozilla,
Amiga: Deluxe/Personal/Perfect/TV/FX Paint, BarsnPipes, Octamed, Imagine, lightwave, gcc, arexx,
the explanation is
Macpeople: I´m not running a pc, i´m a creative person
and i cant use a difficult and boring pc. pcs are for boring uncreative people. And macs match the furniture here att our creative music,/video/advertising/graphic studio.
Pcpeople: 1)It´s company policy use windows. 2)You stupid, only a pc can run my pirated unreal tuornament massacre, tomb raider7.0
3)Pcs have the best filesharingprograms(PORN)
Linux/unixpeople: I´m intrested in computers and programming/ we run big webbservers and databases at my company.
Amigapeople: My computer is my hobby and i like to do everything i can with it.
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Wow, yea, nothing easier than the shell especially considering every command program has it's own unique syntax.
As for the trash can thing most Mac users just used the key combo to "put away". It still made more sense than guessing when the floppy wasn't in use before jerking it from under the system with a manual eject. Not only that PCs don't even calculate if the files are going to fit in their destination before copying. Brilliant (or as you would probably call it, easier to use).
Of course why anybody is discussing floppies in this day and age is beyond me.
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Funny thing about macs these days, they are really a unix system with a "apple" gui on top. The original mac os is almost dead.
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If you stick with Carbon apps the Mac OS HI conventions are still intact. In fact in terms of APIs, Mac OS X borrows more from Mac OS than OPENSTEP.
I don't know how that equates to "almost dead"
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bbrv wrote:
Many main characters of the Greek epics and myths were involved in the siege of Troy. Achilles and Odysseus were only a couple (there was also Ralph, Gerald, Thomas, Frank, Thierry, Nicolas, Bertrand, Sebastien, Nicholas and even Rakesh and Sharwin just to name a few!).
So who gets to be Achilles and die of an arrow in the foot*, and who gets to be Odysseus and spend the next ten years imprisoned in Ogygia? You need to pick a different legend!
Nice story though ;-)
Cheers,
Andrew
*There's some debate as to Achilles' downfall amongst the ancient Greek historians. Whilst most claim that he was killed by an arrow shot by Paris that (with a little help from the god Apollo) pierced his heel, the only part of his body not magically protected from harm, some prefer to claim Achilles took his own life. Given Achilles' aforementioned small area of vulnerability, this would presumably be the earliest historical account of someone fatally shooting themselves in the foot. This may make Achilles a candidate for an extremely posthumous Darwin Award.
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OK Andrew...:-o
You force us to reveal a few more of the astonding details of our secret plan...!
Terms of Disclosure:
1. You must assist us at GameTeam@phinixi.com and help us bring Sensible Soccer to MorphOS (and the STB).
2. We need some marketing and communication help... :-D Can we talk about?
If you agree, please post here and we will release more "exciting" information... ;-)
...and thanks anyway!
Raquel and Bill :-)
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bbrv wrote:
Terms of Disclosure:
1. You must assist us at GameTeam@phinixi.com and help us bring Sensible Soccer to MorphOS (and the STB).
Oh well, little chance of the disclosure then! Shame, I wanted to hear what happens next - I always thought that where Homer was concerned the sequel was more fun than episode 1. ;-)
Alas, all Sensible Software's properties were sold on to Codemasters, who seem to have little enough interest developing Sensi Soccer for GBA, let alone any platform that *hasn't* sold 25m or so units. Jon Hare pretty much declared Sensi Soccer dead after the failure of the 3D version and I suspect it would be pretty hard to persuade him otherwise. Besides, he has other fish to fry now...
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OK Andrew, the Community has you to thank alone for bringing these new details to light because even if Sensible Soccer is not available you are helping us communicate (we hope this will continue!) :-D ....please note these hints are for Game Play Level ONE!
First, as Andrew quite ingeniously pointed out Achilles had an ankle problem, but did you know that the tutor of Achilles was?
Phoenix!!!
:-D
That is right, join the GameTeam@Phinixi.com through the Phoenix Developer Consortium if you are a Game Developer and you will be privy to the latest details there! (BTW, Achilles was prone to cross-dressing, but this is claimed to have been a technique of disguise -- anyway file that away for Level THREE).
Sooooo, Achilles was actually a third-party developer (so to speak)!!! :-o Achilles was heavily recruited by the Greeks (whoops, Change #1 in recognition of earlier post by kostas: Greeks = Genesis from now on, OK? :-) The Genesis had sent Achilles friend into battle (development) and he had been killed by Hector (mentioned earlier), which is why Achilles killed Hector and why Paris came after Achilles later. Voila!
As the Illiad is normally listed before the Odyssey, so too the hints about the characters in question? :-)
Odysseus was one of the main suitors of Helen (maybe we will change her name to Raquel ;-) ) Anyway, he lost out, but he did get to spend seven years on an island with the nymph Calypso, who made him her lover. Hey! :-P Anyway, finally Zeus intervened and Odysseus sailed away on a small boat, only to be shipwrecked by another storm (follow that game play ;-) ). He swam ashore on the island of the Phaeacians, where he was magnificently entertained and then, at long last, escorted home to Ithaca. But, that is later in the story. Back to the battle...
Odysseus was the guy who thought of the Trojan horse in the first place! This was the key to the means by which the Genesis were finally able to take the city of Troy itself. After the death of Achilles, Odysseus and Ajax competed for rights to Achilles' magnificent software, err, that is armor. Odysseus gave a better speech and got it. Then it was time to go home...
Odysseus' return from Troy was chronicled in the Odyssey. It took ten years and was beset by perils and misfortune. He freed his men from the pleasure-giving drugs of the Lotus-Eaters (cool, here we will have a cameo appearance by Cheech and Chong :-) ), rescued them from the cannibalism of the Cyclopes and the enchantments of Circe. He braved the terrors of the underworld with them, and while in the land of the dead Pluto allowed Thiresias, Odysseus' mother, Ajax and others to give him advice on his next journey. They gave him important advice about the cattle of the sun (which Apollo herded), Scylla and Charybdis and the Sirens. From there on the travels were harder for Odysseus, but they would have been much worse of it wasn't for the help of the dead (errr, developers who we thought were dead).
OK, we just skimmed over A LOT of material, but as you can see it is a VERY complicated story!!!
Anyway, with this newly acquired knowledge, he steered them past the perils of the Sirens and of Scylla and Charybdis. Unfortunately, he could not save them from their final folly, however, when they violated divine commandments by slaughtering and eating the cattle of the sun-god (oh no, bad hair day coming!). As a result of this rash act, Odysseus' ship was destroyed by a thunderbolt, and only Odysseus himself survived (whew, I was thinking of playing this role!). Of course, in our story the good ship Lollypop does not get destroyed if the right choices are made!
....have to stop for now, but will be back later to have a discussion about Darwin...:-)
Best regards,
Raquel and Bill :-)
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Don't you guys have any work to do? :-)
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bbrv wrote:
Odysseus was one of the main suitors of Helen (maybe we will change her name to Raquel ;-) )
Oh? So who gets to play Odysseus' wife Penelope? Raquel may get jealous! :D
Anyway, with this newly acquired knowledge, he steered them past the perils of the Sirens and of Scylla and Charybdis. Unfortunately, he could not save them from their final folly, however, when they violated divine commandments by slaughtering and eating the cattle of the sun-god (oh no, bad hair day coming!). As a result of this rash act, Odysseus' ship was destroyed by a thunderbolt, and only Odysseus himself survived (whew, I was thinking of playing this role!). Of course, in our story the good ship Lollypop does not get destroyed if the right choices are made!
Ah but Odysseus had angered Poseidon by poking the sea-god's son in the eye with a sharp stick (a particularly mean trick as said individual, being a cyclops, was rather under-endowed in the eye department). Thus Poseidon felt it necessary to shipwreck Odysseus at every opportunity. This sort of thing is of course very bad for gameplay. Fortunately for Odysseus Athene, having little else to do, thought it would be fun to help him get home, and with Zeus' agreement sets about helping him.
Thus we are introduced to the fundamental Homeric notion that we miserable mortals are no more than the playthings of gods - yes, the high score table is rigged.
Odysseus does indeed get home, but not without losing his entire crew - twice over, to boot. What's more, the poor Phaeacians, who out of the goodness of their hearts give him a ship to get home, have thier magnificent city encircled by a ring of tall mountains for their pains. Yes, it's our old friend Poseidon up to his tricks again.
If we can learn anything from the Odyssey, it's that if you ever see Odysseus coming ashore on your Island, pretend you're not at home. Don't even lend him some sugar if he asks in a neighbourly fashion, you're liable to seriously piss off a major deity.
All in all, I think you should look for another role to play, Bill. ;-)
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> MOS userversion only comes with the Peg.
Well, developers and some beta-testers got the
"user version" on their PUP boards.
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Mac are easier to use. Time = money, PCs are therefore expensive. It has nothing to do with style.
see but thats part of 'style' or 'emotion' ....
but since you use the term 'Time' why dont we discuss 'speed' wich directly relates to time... for me Lightwave on a macintrash would be pretty slow and its an 'identical' app ... so I'd choose the PC wich is faster.
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> Looks & eyecandy & style goes a long way.
Actually there are other reasons as well.
For example... MacOS is the only OS to have global
colour calibration. Professional calibration is expensive,
needs tools (photometers) and takes time. On Win
you have to calibrate each application specifically.
That's a pain in the ass.
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Hummm, perhaps Andrew you are right. And, what you said about Penelope was true. The difference of course was that Odysseus had a twenty-year absence from his wife, Penelope (and I am ALWAYS with Raquel :-D ). Penelope had remained faithful to him, but she was under enormous pressure to re-marry. A whole host of suitors were occupying her palace, drinking and eating and behaving insolently to Penelope and her son, Telemachus. Odysseus arrived at the palace, disguised as a ragged beggar, and observed their behavior and his wife's fidelity (like Raquel's by the way ;-) ). With the help of Telemachus and Laertes, he slaughtered the suitors and cleansed the palace (hurrah!!!). He then had to fight one final battle, against the outraged relatives of the men he had slain; Athena intervened to settle this battle, however, and peace was restored. (whoopie!)
Anyway, we have not figured this part of the game out...want to help us? Andrew, you know the story... :-)
-------- :-) :-) :-) --------
Now a short word about the real Darwin...
Evolution occurs in three ways:
1. The strong get stronger!
2. The weak die.
3. Mutation occurs! (Hallelujah!)
It is therein in the third possibility that the most dramatic changes occur. MorphOS, with all due respect to Ralph, is more than a metaMORPHOSis it is in the spirit of Darwinian mutation! Don't worry we are not changing the name! :-D (and in the meanwhile we will see what OpenDarwin might have for the Morph-on-Apple development :-D )
Back to the Game Development!!!
Thanks Andrew!
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill :-)
(who hope they never get a "Darwin Award")
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There's another thing about Macs .... in a corporate enviroment they don't seem to need a Helpdesk dept!
And, don't they now have a kind-of automatic networking tool?
.....
Ah - Odysseus; didn't he arrive home to find a horde of men (Kings & Princes) making goo-goo eyes at his wife? There was something about her testing them with one of her husbands bows ..... seeing if anyone could bend it!
( None of them could .... Odysseus' bows were really high-draw )
Seem to recall that he snuck into the contest disguised; bent the bow, and took-out two rivals with one arrow! (Like in 1985 when the A1000 could beat ATs and Macs) . . . . . . . . .
.....
° ( to the person who cast doubt that ANYONE still uses floppies- I've recently SAVEd a 4719Bit graphic file to a floppy so as to transport a replacement AVATAR image to a suitable machine for uploading .... I don't have a CD-ROM/RW, and who in their right mind would burn a CD for a sub-5KB file anyway? )
---If Highlander was an AmigaUser; he'd be awaiting the 'A1G4XE Quickening'!
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P.S. Andrew, we almost forgot!!! We have a handle on Poseidon already -- don't worry!. Please see this (http://www.platon42.de/index2.html) :-D
Raquel and Bill :-)
Added Note: IN FACT: the Pegasos with the assistance of Poseidon works NOW with the W@LK KEY...:-D Ahhh, the gods are smiling on the Pegasos and the Genesis!!!
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bbrv wrote:
Hummm, perhaps Andrew you are right. And, what you said about Penelope was true. The difference of course was that Odysseus had a twenty-year absence from his wife, Penelope (and I am ALWAYS with Raquel :-D ). Penelope had remained faithful to him, but she was under enormous pressure to re-marry. A whole host of suitors were occupying her palace, drinking and eating and behaving insolently to Penelope and her son, Telemachus. Odysseus arrived at the palace, disguised as a ragged beggar, and observed their behavior and his wife's fidelity (like Raquel's by the way ;-) ).
Careful Bill. Remember the suitors were Penelope's guests - she refused to choose one OR to send them away. Telemachus certainly resented them, but Penelope kept them around. Let's face it, Odysseus could hardly make a fuss about it though -- he had just spent 7 years shacked up with a nymph, and you notice he didn't even START building a ship until Hermes came along to give him a prod.
My advice: drop the Odysseus / Penelope thing or you may end up sleeping on the sofa tonight. ;-)
Anyway, we have not figured this part of the game out...want to help us? Andrew, you know the story... :-)
Sounds like fun -- a reverse god-game, an anti-Populous! Instead of ordering mortals around, you get messed about by a demented deity with an Olympian-sized chip on his shoulder. Conceptually innovative! I can imagine it winning awards for high concept, but alas in these days of ISS and GTA franchises, there's little room for art-house computer games on the shelves.
On the other hand, a Monkey Island style graphical adventure based on the Odyssey with a few comic twists and complete with a "Favour of the Gods" gauge might just work....
Serious question: wooden horses have to be big and impressive or they're unlikely to get dragged through the gates of Troy. Do the much Billed Bucks stretch far enough to develop a triple-A title? Sure a bit of clever thinking and a touch of Amiga community industry could bring the costs way down from the typical $3m+, but we're still talking BIG cash here.
Now a short word about the real Darwin...
Evolution occurs in three ways:
1. The strong get stronger!
2. The weak die.
3. Mutation occurs! (Hallelujah!)
That sounds more like a combination of a fascist dictatorship and radiation poisoning, not evolution! ;-)
Survival of the fittest does not imply the strong get stronger and the weak die, or sharks wouldn't have stopped evolving 90 million years ago and the world would be devoid of bunny rabbits.
Evolution is about developing a niche that you can be sucessful in. That niche might involve taking over the world by making fields, roads and mobile phones, or breeding so fast the predators don't drop your numbers too far, or it might mean finding a nice secure niche in a deep-sea vent where nobody tries to bother you.
I'd say our approach is certainly more interesting, but you've got to give it to those sulpher-fixing algae, they're a hardy bunch. Which species will last longest and therefore demonstrate that thiers is the superior evolutionary model? My money's on the Algae!
Still, one thing about evolution - it certainly throws up a lot of surprises. Looking forwards to seeing the next one. :)
Cheers,
Andrew
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I read somwhere that MacOS X had support for the Unicode buillt in from. That is a good thing, why don´t we have it ?
Clearly if we have Locale catalogs then we must have Unicode to.
I haven´t tried MacOS X but if it´s unix plus macenvironment on top then it is closing in on AmigaOS:-)
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I think OSX is a great OS... it's the best thing apple ever made...but sadly it comes at a time when thier processors are slipping behind.
I look at it like this
pre-OSX I wouldnt touch a mac because cooperative tasking MacOS sucked... couldnt multitask... it was in short.. pretty darn pathetic.
OSX I would get a mac if they where cheap...but their not cheap...and that throws their price/performance ratio off...and their processors are slow for content creation.
I think it's sad some of the stuff that Apple has done... like buying 'nothing real' and trying to kill the X86 Windows version of 'Shake' thereby (in theory) forceing users onto Macs... sad thing for them is... as an app dies on X86 it leaves the market open for alternatives to spring up...and they are springing up and 'competing' with eachother and pretty soon Shake will be a bad memory as the other apps in the 'competing' market superceed it.
I hope the PPC 970 is kickass...because if it is... I'd certinly buy a Mac... but right now... their not looking so hot.
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Sorry guys, but this thread is now irretrievably off-topic. Please feel free to seperate off into new, more targeted threads.