Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: riccofl on April 18, 2005, 12:56:48 AM
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OS 4.0 (When released) on WinUAE possible?
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no
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riccofl wrote:
OS 4.0 (When released) on WinUAE possible?
Nothing is impossible! :-D
We already have GPL'd PPC-JIT code in PearPC that currently emulates a PowerMac on x86 hardware.
If Toni, or maybe even Bernie, shoehorned that code into UAE, and made it appear to the emulated Amiga as a CSPPC/BPPC, then interesting times could be ahead. :-D
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Crumb wrote:
no
Just like when people asked "Would it be possible to emulate an Amiga on a PC" eh?
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Well, then let's ammend the answer to the question to say,
No, not without a serious, serious overhaul to UAE. UAE only emulates a 68K processor, OS4 uses a PPC processor.
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I see...So, what if you run a recent Mac OS on a PC, is PPC being emulated?
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Absolutely possible, but without legal license to do so, not very likely. And getting one would probably take a long long time.
Plaz
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Hmmm. Good news for Americans. As long as no copyright infringement is taking place, emulation for the purposes of interoperating with software is covered by fair use. Really, you can do whatever you want with software you purchase for private use as long as you're not sharing copies of the software with a few thousand of your closest friends. Hyperion may be limited to porting Amiga OS to specific platforms, but there's nothing to prevent a savvy programmer from modifying PearPC to run Amiga OS.
And if the AmigaOne goes out of production, bypassing the key or whatever other nonsense is in place to keep the OS from booting on unsupported platforms would be covered by a current exemption to the DMCA.
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I have no doubt the A1 will be emulated on PC at some point in the future. Considering the A1's similarities with current PC architecture, its probably easier than emulating a classic Amiga?
Of course, other than for the challenge, what's the point?
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No.
Nei.
Nein.
Nyet.
Nem.
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There wouldnt be reason why to emulate something when it would be much cheaper to go out and buy the actual thing. Since older stuff was much easier, then it isnt hard. It would be writing an emulator for Gamecube.. I know there is one out there, but you can pick up one for cheap. :-)
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Wouldn´t it be easier to port OS4 to a Mac that already has got PPC ??? :-?
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kd7ota wrote:
There wouldnt be reason why to emulate something when it would be much cheaper to go out and buy the actual thing. Since older stuff was much easier, then it isnt hard. It would be writing an emulator for Gamecube.. I know there is one out there, but you can pick up one for cheap. :-)
You think the A1 is cheap? :-o :-?
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1000,000 years ago
two cavemen sitting in a cave one said to the other......
Hey do you think any one will ever invent the wheel?
Hmmmm no its impmossible.
Ohhh ok
Do you think any one will ever invent the Amiga?
Hmmm no its impossible.
Ohhhh ok
Do you think any one will invent marmite?
They had bloody better not.
100 years ago.......
Do you think man will ever land on the moon?
errmm actualy no its impossible.
ohhhh ok then, lets not bother then shall we.........
Today.........
If every one said its impossible to do this or that then nothing will ever get done.
(but I do take your point)
I never thought it would be possible for my teenage daughter to clean her room up, but something made it possible.
So the impossible can be made possible.
Is this possible?
Mike.
:lol:
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>"You think the A1 is cheap?"
It is cheaper and muhc more powerfull than the Amiga classic in your signature.
@thread
No. And remember that Pearc Pc emulates a cpu several times slower than the original.
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ikir wrote:
>"You think the A1 is cheap?"
It is cheaper and muhc more powerfull than the Amiga classic in your signature.
Incorrect.
A1200 - £0.00
3.1ROMS - £20
Phase5 BPPC 040@25 603e@200 256MB - £200
Mediator 1200 - £80
64MB Voodoo 5500 - £30
SBLive!+SPDIF - £0.00
RTL8139 - £0.00
Elbox FastATA 1200 Mk-III - £50
40GB UDMA133 HDD - £0.00
Sony 40xCD-RW - £0.00
OS 3.9 - £30
Bt878 PCI TV Card - £0.00
PC<->1200 KB Adaptor - £10
Power Tower - £30 with a free Vooodo 3 card thrown in
A complete system that *works* for less than £500.
Compared to a motherboard *only* for £512.
Thats besides the point, my Athlon64-3200+ with 1MB CPU Cache, 128MB Radeon 9600 and 1024MB DDR400 RAM running AROS outperforms both. :-P
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ikir wrote:
And remember that Pearc Pc emulates a cpu several times slower than the original.
Just out of curiosity, have you tried PearPC?
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Just out of curiosity, have you tried PearPC?
Well I did, and the speed was amazing, I was expecting it to be much slower.
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@mdma
I paid much more for my classic... anyway a Micro is hundreds of times faster, you can't compare the power an A1 with an old classic, as 3.x with 4.0 imho. And it "works". I turned my XE off this morning after 3 days, it is an incredible system.
@bloodline
No, i want to try it but i need a spare hd and new hd removable chassis. Users and friends reported it as "incredible slow" anyway.
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mdma wrote:
A1200 - £0.00
3.1ROMS - £20
Phase5 BPPC 040@25 603e@200 256MB - £200
Mediator 1200 - £80
64MB Voodoo 5500 - £30
SBLive!+SPDIF - £0.00
RTL8139 - £0.00
Elbox FastATA 1200 Mk-III - £50
40GB UDMA133 HDD - £0.00
Sony 40xCD-RW - £0.00
OS 3.9 - £30
Bt878 PCI TV Card - £0.00
PC<->1200 KB Adaptor - £10
Power Tower - £30 with a free Vooodo 3 card thrown in
I see you listed some parts as costing 0.00. If they costed zero to you, that doesn't mean they really cost zero. Either you stole them, they were given for free to you (as a gift or with another purchase), or you picked them from garbage bin, but they still cost something, not zero. For example the A1200 can go for £15, £10 for the TV card, £10 for the HDD, £10 for the RTL8139, and another £10 for the SBLive and you are already near the price of brand new A1, which will be more reliable. You probably know that every new card added to the classic system, makes it more unstable.
A complete system that *works* for less than £500.
Compared to a motherboard *only* for £512.
That complete system including the cards in it is second hand, while the A1 is brand new.
Thats besides the point, my Athlon64-3200+ with 1MB CPU Cache, 128MB Radeon 9600 and 1024MB DDR400 RAM running AROS outperforms both.
Which of the native AmigaOS4 software you tryied on it, for this benchmark?
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Which of the native AmigaOS4 software you tryied on it, for this benchmark?
Right, so are you telling me that a 2.2GHz 64bit CPU with 1MB L1 Cache is slower than a 800MHz G3? :-?
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seer wrote:
Just out of curiosity, have you tried PearPC?
Well I did, and the speed was amazing, I was expecting it to be much slower.
The phrase I like to use to describe it, is "Like sh!t off a shovel!" :-D
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Right, so are you telling me that a 2.2GHz 64bit CPU with 1MB L1 Cache is slower than a 800MHz G3?
For native AmigaOS4 software - YES.
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ikir wrote:
@mdma
I paid much more for my classic... anyway a Micro is hundreds of times faster, you can't compare the power an A1 with an old classic, as 3.x with 4.0 imho. And it "works". I turned my XE off this morning after 3 days, it is an incredible system.
@bloodline
No, i want to try it but i need a spare hd and new hd removable chassis. Users and friends reported it as "incredible slow" anyway.
It's incredibly fast ikir, the JIT version is anyway. The interpreted version is obviously a lot slower.
Obviously any A1 is faster than the fastest classic machine, but the fastest x86 is more than good enough to JIT emulate a PPC at an acceptable speed. Which is what the original topic was about afterall. ;-)
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drHirudo wrote:
Right, so are you telling me that a 2.2GHz 64bit CPU with 1MB L1 Cache is slower than a 800MHz G3?
For native AmigaOS4 software - YES.
An how exactly do you know this?
Have you used a AmigaOS4 JIT emulated on an Athlon64?
Thought not.
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by mdma on 2005/4/18 20:08:21
drHirudo wrote:
Right, so are you telling me that a 2.2GHz 64bit CPU with 1MB L1 Cache is slower than a 800MHz G3?
For native AmigaOS4 software - YES.
An how exactly do you know this?
Have you used a AmigaOS4 JIT emulated on an Athlon64?
Thought not.
[/quote]
It doesn't need rocked science maths to calculate that Athlon64 wouldn't emulate in more than 1/10th the speed of PPC even with JIT. (which is of core pretty much optimistic), so to emulate 800MHz µA1, you will need at least 8 GHz Athlon64, which isn't in the shops yet, and this is only for the CPU. Ok the other µA1 parts are pretty standart, so they won't take much overheat to the emulation, but they still will need a wrapper, so save your money for 10 GHz Athlon, if you want to emulate the µA1 at real speed, but I hope by the time the 0.01 THz machines will be introduced, there will be faster A1 hardware already.
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I hope by the time the 0.01 THz machines will be introduced, there will be faster A1 hardware already.
More chance of the next Pope being a Muslim I reckon! ;-)
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Also why is all this fuss about PPC WinUAE?
I think it will be easier to be coded WinUME (Windows Universal MorphOS Emulator). By the claims of the MorphOS advocates, MorphOS is better, have bigger software base, it's tied to a open firmware (easier to emulate), have more features, higher stability, better look, stronger user base, friendly community, better developers, OS4Emu, and everything nice.
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drHirudo wrote:
Also why is all this fuss about PPC WinUAE?
I think it will be easier to be coded WinUME (Windows Universal MorphOS Emulator). By the claims of the MorphOS advocates, MorphOS is better, have bigger software base, it's tied to a open firmware (easier to emulate), have more features, higher stability, better look, stronger user base, friendly community, better developers, OS4Emu, and everything nice.
Don't you mean Pegasos emulator?
A WinUAE-PPC should be able to run any Amiga-PPC OS including MorphOS 0.4, which runs quite nicely on my classic by the way.
Anyway, why do you feel the need to start trolling about MorphOS on a thread about the possiblity of UAE getting PPC-JIT functionality? Whats wrong with you?
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by mdma on 2005/4/18 20:47:25
Don't you mean Pegasos emulator?
A WinUAE-PPC should be able to run any Amiga-PPC OS including MorphOS 0.4, which runs quite nicely on my classic by the way.
Anyway, why do you feel the need to start trolling about MorphOS on a thread about the possiblity of UAE getting PPC-JIT functionality? Whats wrong with you?
I read that the thread is called "OS 4.0 on WinUAE possible?" and stated an opinion that MorphOS on WinUAE (or WinUME) is more likely, because it doesn't have the A1 dongle (as they call it), and uses open firmware. What's wrong in this?
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What's wrong in this?
It's the way you said it.
By the claims of the MorphOS advocates, MorphOS is better, have bigger software base, it's tied to a open firmware (easier to emulate), have more features, higher stability, better look, stronger user base, friendly community, better developers, OS4Emu, and everything nice.
IMHO The tone was intentionally aggressive, and grammatically constructed to cause a firy responses.
If you said "Wouldn't it be cool if a UAE-PPC supported OS4 and MorphOS?" or something similarly worded, you know full well it wouldn't be as controversial and wouldn't have the possibility of starting up yet another childish "my dick is bigger than your dick" argument.
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All I can say is I'd like to pay around $100 for OS4 and run it emulated on my PC, rather than dump lots of cash for the real thing, which will just rob me of more desk space (I have three computers on my table as it is).
I don't care how fast it is so long as I can give it a test drive. I'm more interested in making software than using it, anyway.
With that said, Hyperion wouldn't like it, and making a project work without official support is very painful.
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MDMA:
here you are talking about morphos and bla bla and you dont even know about the morphos emulator for windows?..
its been known for ages..
anyway..
regarding topic of the thread:
NO, but sure if toni and bernie wants to kill of AmigaOS then sure, its just software and anything is possible to hack together.
now back to the pearpc discussion:
Pearpc running macosX on a 3ghz pentium is about as fast as a 700mhz powermac in terms of real use, somethings is faster and alot of things is alot slower but then again to people who use windows..everything else feels blazing fast.
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by mdma on 2005/4/18 21:13:52
IMHO The tone was intentionally aggressive, and grammatically constructed to cause a firy responses.
If you said "Wouldn't it be cool if a UAE-PPC supported OS4 and MorphOS?" or something similarly worded, you know full well it wouldn't be as controversial and wouldn't have the possibility of starting up yet another childish "my dick is bigger than your dick" argument.
Grow up. These wars are over. Neither of the sides won. Both lost and there is no real winner.
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drHirudo wrote:
by mdma on 2005/4/18 21:13:52
IMHO The tone was intentionally aggressive, and grammatically constructed to cause a firy responses.
If you said "Wouldn't it be cool if a UAE-PPC supported OS4 and MorphOS?" or something similarly worded, you know full well it wouldn't be as controversial and wouldn't have the possibility of starting up yet another childish "my dick is bigger than your dick" argument.
Grow up. These wars are over. Neither of the sides won. Both lost and there is no real winner.
So stop bringing it up then.
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lempkee wrote:
now back to the pearpc discussion:
Pearpc running macosX on a 3ghz pentium is about as fast as a 700mhz powermac in terms of real use, somethings is faster and alot of things is alot slower...
Yup, that about what I feel when I run PearPC on my 3Ghz P4... PEarPC doesn't emulate the OpenGL graphics card so all gfx function are dog slow as MacOSX relies on OpenGL.
I find PearPC quite a bit faster on my 2Ghz Athlon64 though... The Slowest part of the PPC emualtion is the MMU emulation which need to be completely rewritten, according to the Docs.
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You might be an Amiga,
or a simple calculator,
but sooner or later you dance with the emulator.
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Absolutely true. The future of all computers is emulation
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swift240 wrote:
I never thought it would be possible for my teenage daughter to clean her room up, but something made it possible.
So the impossible can be made possible.
Careful! She's probably got herself a secret boyfriend, or something :-)
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ok here goes
into the breech dear friends!
1st off people said the pc would never be able to emulate an amiga or a playstation or an n64 or a ps2, but now all except the ps2 run great on my lowly athlon and the ps2 isnt that far away now! so the answer is YES eventually os4 will run on an emulation.
2nd without emulation the amiga would be in even worse shape than it is now! dont get me wrong i still love and spend money on my miggy but sometimes the pc emulates a miggy better and quicker than my real miggy eg my a1200 030 50mhz with 128mb ram does not run os3.9 as well as my pc does, but the pc does not run my older games as well as my miggy, except 3d games which the pc blows the miggy away (thanks i think to the geforce 256mb 5950) so be nice to emulators they are keeping the community alive!
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Too Right, JuvUK!
Its a simple matter of convenience!
Most people have a PC sitting right there on the desk, it's only natural that as you first foray back into the Amiga world, you'd go and download a -free- application to revive some of thos good ole' Amiga memeories.
And who knows where that might lead?
The only problem I see is, no-one has jumped on the opportunity of cashing-in on all those WinUAE users, if and when they want to take the hobby a bit further. As it is there are only a couple choices:
-Buy a classic machine and relive what you already can with WnUAE.
-Buy one of the expensive new machines and experience the world of beta testing.
What happened to;
-Buy an inexpensive new version of the OS that will run on your PC?
-Buy an inexpensive remake of classic hardware (like those console remakes by Radica Games; http://www.radicagames.com/index.cfm?event=showProdDetail&id=85&categoryId=9 )?
-Buy nostalgia-marketed devices, such as Amiga branded MP3 players, memory sticks, ect?
-Buy (cheap) ADF's from a website with one-big-killer-list of licenced/regestered Amiga games, say 20-50 cents a pop?
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As it is, once they tire of WinUAE, most people put those Amiga memories away again and get on with life. It seems like a missed opportunity to me...
ps: OS4EMU v1.1 has been released
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9009