Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: icbrkr on April 16, 2005, 04:46:18 PM

Title: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 16, 2005, 04:46:18 PM
I'm sure it's been asked here before, but I'm going to ask again :)  I'm sure someone has tried the component to VGA box converters for hooking up their A600/1200 to a VGA monitor... what's your experiences with these?  Are they worth the $50?  
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: lurkist on April 16, 2005, 05:39:14 PM
They're great, but you'll only be able to use DBLpal / DBLntsc screenmodes which are a bit slow, and frequently not available to certain apps. Also IIRC you won't be able to see the early startup menu.  It's well worth the extra to get a scandoubler / flicker fixer.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 17, 2005, 12:04:08 AM
Hmm... I just realized I posted this in the wrong forum.. doh!

The 1200 can do DBLNTSC/PAL without going through component (I'm already using it on a standard monitor this way).  The VGA boxes I see will double the scanrate supposedly to 31.5Khz... so shouldn't I be able to use standard Amiga modes on a VGA monitor this way?
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: patrik on April 17, 2005, 12:11:03 AM
@icbrkr:

Do you have any link to some of those boxes you could paste in this thread?


/Patrik
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: lurkist on April 17, 2005, 12:33:34 AM
If you are using a VGA adapter now (using DBLPAL/NTSC) the box you see (doubles the scan = Scandoubler) will be a vast improvement and you will have no more need for those dodgy DBL screenmodes.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: SamuraiCrow on April 17, 2005, 12:38:42 AM
If it has a scandoubler then it's worth $50.  If it's just a cable adapter with a buffer chip of some sort then it's worth maybe $10-$15 and could easily be made yourself using readily available components.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 17, 2005, 01:14:27 AM
I was looking at something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41059&item=8185460983&rd=1

They're all over Ebay, and I was thinking with the actual scan doubler in it, I could run standard Amiga modes on my flatpanel.  I was going to take the A600 I just bought and slap it into my keyboard tray underneath my desk :)  Also, it'd be a way to hook my A1200 up to a larger monitor.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: patrik on April 17, 2005, 01:32:47 AM
@icbrkr:

If they work described they will work with your Amigas just fine, although you should not expect much better picture quality than what the average video-grabber-card for your PC would achieve.

There was recently a hack released on Aminet describing how to add an S-Video port to your Amiga. That would without doubt increase the picture-quality you get from a box like that tremendously compared to when using the composite signal. Unfortunately www.aminet.net is down so I can't give you a link.

(edit):

Found it unpacked in a public_html dir of mine, check it out here (http://www.acc.umu.se/~patrikax/S-Video_A1200/S-Video_A1200.htm).

One thing to keep in mind both if you are using a box like this or a real flickerfixer/scandoubler is that it will most likely not produce a resolution that is the native resolution of your TFT. This will make the TFT scale the picture, which probably will be ok for games, but for productivity work it would be advisable to run it on a CRT.


/Patrik
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 17, 2005, 02:43:53 AM
Definetly understood.  The A1200 running 640x400 (480?) in multiscan mode runs fairly decently, and isn't bad to manuver around at all.  Of course, it doesn't come close to hitting my 1280x1024 resolution but it's still decent.  A real flickerfixer seems out of the question (as much as I'd like one) due to cost and availability.  I can see getting something like this for $50 that I can use on multiple items than a single use only flickerfixer for $145
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: leirbag28 on April 17, 2005, 04:52:14 AM
@icbrkr

 It says it has a De-Interlacer............thats basically a flicker fixer :-)

De-interlacing is making the 2 fields that cause flicker be one Frame.........thus removing flicker like Progressive scan.

Am I right?  anyone know for sure?



Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: nex4060 on April 17, 2005, 11:53:00 AM
sounds just about right :-)
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: Beowulf on April 17, 2005, 02:03:15 PM
There is a site that sells these boxes. One box, the XGA box, under the FAQ section claims that you can use it with an Amiga and states that you can only use TV resolutions though??

Also the Amiga's standard refresh rate is 15.5 khz but these boxes state that they double from 15.65 or 15.7 so i dont know if this would cause trouble.

In the FAQ it also says that you can get converters to change standard composite video to S-Video which would increase the quality.

The boxes usually only outputs to two or three resolutions like 800x600 and 1024x724 etc... so unless it converts any resolution coming in to either of the set output resolutions this would cause trouble with the Amiga.

Interlace flickers because it refreshes the lines from top to bottom at intervals but non-interlaced refreshes the lines in sequence so at higher refresh rates there is no noticable flickers.

Anyway im going to get one and give it a try :)

here is the link to the website,

www.lik-sang.com
 
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: StormLord on April 17, 2005, 02:29:22 PM
If this box has compoment and no COMPOSITE then the picture you will get it will be very close to RGB. So just get it!
If it has composite or SVideo then the quality will be bad..
Compoment and composite is a very different signal, svideo is close to composite signal , you can make an composite from sv by joining the 2 wires from H sync and V sync together. Also the amiga does not have Svideo avail by default so by making an adaptor to create svideo from composite you will not gain much quality if any. Amiga also does not have compoment but you can create this signal from RGB. If it is to rate the signals from 0 to 10 then it is as:
composite 2
Svideo    4
Component 8
RGB      10
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 18, 2005, 01:52:43 AM
By the looks of it, it has VGA pass through.. so, think of this way: use composite for games, Multiscan/DBLNTSC for Workbench on the same monitor.  It's a win win!  If you're buying it, let us know how it works!
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: Beowulf on April 20, 2005, 04:02:52 AM
Yeah will do and Visa Versa :)
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 25, 2005, 12:23:42 AM
I ordered mine today from here:

http://www.cliffracer.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/111

That's the cheapest I've seen the Magic VGA box, and shipping was about $6.

Now I'm hoping I don't get screwed :)
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: Drummerboy on April 25, 2005, 01:52:53 AM
Hello!..

i think is great!.. and its not expensive..
You know i was looking for Scandoubler, but, this is a great way por can use my A1200 with VGA monitor in all screen modes..

I going to obtain this adapter..

regards people!

bye!

Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: adolescent on April 25, 2005, 03:50:35 AM
Just a word of caution, the composite from the A600/A1200 is horrible quality.  Running this through an additional conversion and upscan causes the quality to become even worse.  
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 25, 2005, 12:56:28 PM
Since I'd only use this mode for games, I don't believe I'll lose too much quality.  I've had it hooked up to a 1702 monitor for years for game modes, so if I can suffer with that, I can suffer with anything :)

Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: Tahoe on April 25, 2005, 01:10:45 PM
Thanx fot his great idea!! Why didn't I think of this??! I still have a VGA TV Tuner laying around (for using a monitor as TV without the need for a PC) It has Composite in, VGA in (Voodoo passthrough!!) and a normal VGA out. It doubles all modes and lets me decide what mode the monitor works in when it recieves the signal (1024x768 in my case).
I've opened a thread in the hardware corner to check if this can be done through component in (seperated RGB/HV)
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: scu98rkr on April 25, 2005, 02:19:19 PM
Hi hobbyist i linked my amiga up to one of these boxes, a magic vga one like ur. I like in UK if this makes any difference. Ive also liked the box up to my freeview box and XBOX. (The s-video input is nt very good i dont know why this is it could be because i got it off ebay)

the xbox and freeview box were ok. But the amiga display ok but was jumpy ie the screen moved up and down by a couple of pixels every second or so.

Did it do this for u ? if not what modes did u use i think i had standard res 800*600 and 60hz. And used composite in.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: SamuraiCrow on April 25, 2005, 04:49:29 PM
The composite out on the Amiga 1200 accepts a lot of interference from the rest of the Amiga circuitry.  Also 800x600 60Hz is not possible on the Amiga graphics chipset AFAIK, try NTSC 640x200 non-interlaced and see if that works right on the scandoubler.  If you're using PAL 640x256 that might be why the monitor is having trouble maintaining a sync.  Some systems don't like a 50 Hz display resolution.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: zx6r6 on April 25, 2005, 05:37:23 PM
Hello. I hate to say it but personally I've found these boxes to be a complete waste of money. The picture quality (if you manage to get one!) is dreadfull!
For your info I've tried :-
V-Stream xpert tv box hi-res (about£50) - dreafull all round!
Vision VTB100 (£120) - jumpy picture
Cypress tech scart rgb to xga convertor (£100) - very fuzzy but useable for games(just)
Daewoo DSA-9310E - best of all but not even tv modulator quality!

Theyve all been tried through both composite and RGB scart. The vtb100 and v-stream by going into a Keene electronics rgb scart to svideo convertor.

I've since bitten the bullet and paid a fortune for an internal scan doubler and flicker fixer on ebay. Just wish I'd done that in the first place!

There must be something about the way that the amiga makes the video signals as most boxes above are excellent when used with any modern equipment i.e gamecube/xbox etc
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: leirbag28 on April 27, 2005, 01:20:07 AM
Usually these boxes are indeed bad

But
Here is my Rating or Signals:

RF.......  4
Composite  5
S-Video    8
Component  9
RGB       10

S-Video looks extremely close to RGB............dont know what the heck anyody else is using but my CD32 has S-Video OUT, RGB OUT and VGA OUT........plus S-Video OUT through the SuperGenSX.....S-Video is Superb!

try it through a genlock if you cant get a good S-Video signal.the Supergen SX is the best way to go or the Vidteck Scanlock...........if your using an SX-1 and the SuperGen SX..the S-Video gets even better! (better than the SX32)



Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 27, 2005, 03:14:32 AM
I'm hoping for some good luck here on mine, I'll post the results when it finally comes in.  Buying a flicker fixer is too pricey to me, and plus I have multiple Amigas.  I don't really want to purchase a flicker fixer for each of em :)  Finding an external one on the other hand would be nice.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: Damion on April 27, 2005, 07:24:37 AM
Viewsonic makes one, (http://www.viewsonic.com/products/tventertainment/tvvideoprocessors/nextvisionn6/) a bit pricey (around US $180) but it looks da shizznit. With one of those 23-15 pin adaptors, you could plug your amiga right through it to your LCD...no crappy composite video...and then use the remote to adjust to your LCD's "native" resolution, and the viewsonic will scale/fit the picture as required. Picture quality is supposed to be great.

The cool thing about using this with an LCD, is that you'd get  a nicely scaled, hi-res picture with NO 60Hz eyestrain like with a scandoubler/crt.

Here you can see pics of the ports and cables it's sold with (link to newegg.com). (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815116003)

--edit--duh, looks like the RGB ports are for passthrough...so you'd have to make an RGB-SVIDEO adapter.
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on April 29, 2005, 01:47:04 AM
Okay, I got mine in.  Here's a quick rundown:

PAL and NTSC modes work fine.  As was mentioned earlier by someone else, it *does* flicker a bit.  It is nowhere near as sharp as an RGB connection, but it does look just like the composite cable being hooked up to the TV.

(http://www.particles.org/a1200.jpg)

I don't consider that unplayable at all for games :)
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: icbrkr on May 07, 2005, 12:58:36 AM
Here's a review I put together with some more screenshots:

http://www.particles.org/reviews/vgabox.php
Title: Re: Component -> VGA boxes
Post by: patrik on May 07, 2005, 01:09:44 AM
@icbrkr:

Great work and thanks for sharing your experience!


/Patrik