Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: sgm on March 04, 2003, 11:34:49 AM
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Hi all.
Could any of the Hyperion ppl confirm/deny that Amiga OS4 will be launched in ... *8* days? :-o
Mind you, not if it's finished, 'cause I already know that answer ;-)
Thank you guys.
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it was released yesterday , check cnn.com and m$.com ...
silly question so a silly answer.
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Lets troll again, like we did last summer.....
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It's much sooner then I thought. So I am wondering what we will get to see.
Coder
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Coder! your bucket is gone! :-o
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@whabang
Coder! your bucket is gone!
I see it. It was still there after most of the rest was gone. But yesterday evening it went away too but it was there again this morning. And now it's taking a break again.
Coder
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Coder wrote:
I see it. It was still there after most of the rest was gone. But yesterday evening it went away too but it was there again this morning. And now it's taking a break again.
Coder
HAHA! :lol:
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<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Whoop, there it is! :-)
And now it is gone again.
Coder
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Who is going to the Cebit show? I am not going.
Coder
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Coder wrote:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Whoop, there it is! :-)
And now it is gone again.
Coder
Damn! I missed it! :-x
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Hey folks,
this was not intended as trolling. You must be th*ck in the head to think like this. I just came across an article about CeBIT and I noticed that's just 8 days away, hence the question.
Coder understood it... thx.
About silly questions and answers, my dear lempkee, next time try to read the posts more carefully: AFAIK, nobody knows if OS4 will be *LAUNCHED* at CeBIT as previously announced, unless I missed any subsequent press release from Hyperion. Correct me if I'm wrong (and if you can manage to be more... forgiving).
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lempkee wrote:
it was released yesterday , check cnn.com and m$.com ...
silly question so a silly answer.
He didn't mention release, he mentioned launch! :-P
Which, ofcourse, is a completely different matter.
So you actually didn't reply to his silly question.
Maybe theyl'l just launch it, showing an souped up 3.9 with 4.0 addons, on an old 4000 in a new nice AOne-looking tower. Ofcourse standing next to it, the real AOne with Linux.
Perhaps Linux with a fullscreen VNC on the AOne connected to the 4000 far from CeBit, so that everyone will think AOS4 is actually running on the AOne!
:-D :-P ;-)
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I think we are all very interested in what they will show there. It was said something would be showed there. I am not getting my hopes up on anything. I will see after the Cebit what we got.
Coder
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Yeah I *must* be thick in the head to think that you might
have not followed the news, articles and the huge number
of times this has been asked on forums without going
properly answered over the last month.
I must be *thick in the head* for thinking your motivation
was anything less than irony.
Amazing I can type really.
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Now I know.
You're not th*ck in the head: you're a gilip*llas.
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@sgm
Personal abuse is actually against site policy you know.
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DaveP,
I know that, but it really makes me feel sick the fact that you can't take my word that (once again) *I was not trolling*. Is it so difficult to understand that I may not be able to cope with "the news, articles and the huge number of times this has been asked on forums without going properly answered over the last month"?
Sorry for the G word.
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Sure, I can take you at your word that trolling wasn't your intent.
In fact I just did.
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I give up.
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Whats up now? Ive taken you at your word that you werent trolling! I believe you!
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Aw, for #### sake !!!
Cut it out you two! :-x
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:-D
I just wanted you to feel the same medicine... ok, sorry again. Peace done.
Now, back to the original question: I can understand (being a developer myself) Hyperion ppl to avoid saying anything one or two months in advance. BUT! CeBIT is only 8 days away, and I can assure you that you can't do too much stuff in 8 days, even less DEMONSTRATE it in such a computer fair... so what they already have is what will be demonstrated (if it will ever happen, that is). I *really* don't see why they shouldn't give a public statement about their participation to the CeBIT...
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sgm wrote:
:-D
I just wanted you to feel the same medicine... ok, sorry again. Peace done.
Double double bluff? I must be getting old to fall for that.
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@whabang
What? Getting nervous, buddy? :-D
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@sgm
whabang has ODd on mineral water.
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DaveP wrote:
@sgm
whabang has ODd on mineral water.
LOL! :lol:
That and intelligent painkillers...
:-D :-D :-D
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DaveP wrote:
@sgm
whabang has ODd on mineral water.
:-o :-D
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Hyperion what are you doing? :-?
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sgm wrote:
Hi all.
Could any of the Hyperion ppl confirm/deny that Amiga OS4 will be launched in ... *8* days? :-o
Mind you, not if it's finished, 'cause I already know that answer ;-)
Thank you guys.
Its not finished.... Beta testing is being done so far on the CSPPC.
There will be NOTHING to show at ce-bit....
Like there was NOTHING delivered at christmas......
This is not a troll but facts.
Christmas A1 XE's.... Been & Gone
Motorolas Blaimed
Mid Jan A1 XE's.... Been & Gone
New Artica S Revision
End of Jan "Some might Roll over into February"
Never Materialised
Feb 24th they will ship from the factory.... ???
They are all built..... But they dont ship!!!
According to Alan they should be shipping This week but they are not.
Reason....U-Boot for the End user XE's isn't even finished.
Like OS4 is not finished.
When will the A1XE's ship ? .... Ask hyperion they are writing U-Boot. It was supposed to be finished last week but thats holding up the A1 delivery.
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong and you have given the final code to alan to get the roms burn't.
CE-Bit if they go all you'll get is UAE & Debian running 68K 3.9 with a few buggy OS4 Modules.
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@JurassicCamper
Thank you for *your opinion*, but that's not what I was asking for. BTW, no need to get *that* angry, man... after all, it's just software and hardware ;-)
Again, this is a plain and simple, no troll, request for a public press release about OS4 launch.
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JurassicCamper wrote:
When will the A1XE's ship ? .... Ask hyperion they are writing U-Boot. It was supposed to be finished last week but thats holding up the A1 delivery.
Where did you get the info about U-Boot? I thought it was already finished (from last info from Eyetech).
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JurassicCamper wrote:
New Artica S Revision
End of Jan "Some might Roll over into February"
Never Materialised
Wrong. I have that on my desk since weeks. Stop making things up.
Reason....U-Boot for the End user XE's isn't even finished.
Wrong. Stop making things up.
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong and you have given the final code to alan to get the roms burn't.
I hereby correct you. Stop making things up. If you don't know what you are talking about (and this is quite obviously the case here) why bother to post at all? And most of all, why post as if it where facts, as if you knew these?
with a few buggy OS4 Modules.
OS 4 modules aren't buggy. Stop making things up.
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Rogue wrote:
Wrong. I have that on my desk since weeks. Stop making things up.
Hi Rogue,
Has the version of UBoot for the XE's been given the ok?
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@Rogue
Thanks for the corrections.
Ok, well, erm... :-D Care to answer the question?
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@sgm
Silence is aqueiscence or something. Wheres my dictionary?
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@DaveP
So, you mean that the answer is YES (we'll launch OS4 at CeBIT).
Well, I guess I won't be able to get any better answer than this. :-(
/methinks If my company were to act like this, we'd get bankrupt in a year or less... oh, well.
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Wrong. I have that on my desk since weeks. Stop making things up.
I'm not making things up. Just putting into my own words what i read. If it has been finished for weeks then why did alan say on the 25/02/2003 that he was still waiting for the final version to get the roms blown.
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong and you have given the final code to alan to get the roms burn't.
I hereby correct you.
Thank you for pointing out is is finished. And if it has been finished for weeks, then the boards should be shipping by now right ???? :-? :-? :-?
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@Rogue
Your response was less than helpful.
If you don't have anything to say, why post?
Just to harass already over frustrated amigans?
btw, the main point of his post was ENTIRELY CORRECT. Promise for Christmas, then January, then February...nows its march...
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@MarkTime
(sigh!) Again, this is no trolling and/or flamebait. Just a request for a public statement.
Don't be frustrated: in 8 days we'll definitely know, either from Hyperion or from anybody else... :nervous:
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8 Days togo.....
Better pull your finger out and put in a bit of overtime.
Everbody has their limits on how long they will keep believing $#!+€ like this.
With the AmigaOne now shipping and AmigaOS4.0 in its final stages of development and testing, the time has come to begin letting the rest of the world know the good news, that the Amiga is alive, well and ready to let the World have fun with computing again.
We all know that the current hard core of Amiga users is not enough to build a sustainable and thriving community. We have to appeal to those who, for whatever reason left the Amiga months and years ago but who still retain a fondness for their old platform. Whether disillusioned with their existing offering, looking for a new way or simply wanting to return, the marketing for the reborn Amiga must concentrate itself on these people, the five million or so who once owned an Amiga and who could do so once more.
The last six months has seen us experimenting with presence at various multi-format shows and nuturing relationships with TV, web and paper publications in order to test the waters and to set out our stall for the big push forwards. Even in this informal process, the response has been fantastic, whether in the US, the UK, Europe or Australia. People remember the Amiga and want it back.
We have taken all this research and, in conjunction with Amiga developers, retailers, user groups, publications, Amiga Inc, Eyetech and Hyperion have decided that we will concentrate on four official large scale multi-format shows around the globe, in order to maximise our presence, message and exposure. This will compromise a show roughly every quarter, one for Europe, one for the US and Canada, one for the UK and one for the Antipodes (Australia, New Zealand and Asia).
The first of these shows will be the official launch of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4.0, to occur at the CeBit show in Germany in March (and before anyone asks, this does not mean this is the release date for AmigaOS4.0, it means that CeBit will be the public launch of it). With the huge exposure and attendence that CeBit brings in, and being in Germany, one of the spiritual homes of the Amiga, we think this an appropriate and exciting venue.
In addition we will support several other important national shows on a cooperative basis with the dealers, user groups and organisations in those countries. Commitments have already been given to attend the SINTEP show in Toulouse, France in April 2003, and at least one of the Micromart shows in Birmingham, UK.
We will also support local dealers and organisers of the main Amiga user group shows worldwide (subject to fitting in with the schedule of the larger shows above) such as the Alt-WoA and WoA-SE shows in the UK, as well as the main shows in France, Germany, the USA and Canada. If you currently - or would like to - organise such a show during 2003 and would like Amiga Inc, and/or Hyperion and/or Eyetech to attend please contact us as soon as early as possible during the planning stage. Given the limited resources we all have, and the cost and complexity of planning for the quarterly shows, we cannot guarantee attendence but we will do our best to support the community wherever it gets together to enjoy the Amiga platform.
So much for 2003 - what about the remainder of 2002, and in particular the Aachen show? We have all, both as individual companies and together, thought long and hard about this show. However decided that the timing could not be worse from all our respective points of view. Eyetech is committed to delivering the Earlybird systems for Christmas that week and Amiga Inc is fully occupied fulfilling an AmigaAnywhere contract, and product launch. Whilst visiting with all of you is important, we believe that it is more important to ship products right now, and we simply can not work the show into our schedules.
We wanted to share this with you because many in the community have asked the same questions that we have asked ourselves. How will the community grow and thrive? It can only do so through increased sales, and that means increased awareness. As we move from survival mode to growth mode, the small, local shows, however much fun cannot provide this level of exposure and awareness. By marching proudly and strongly into the mainstream shows, and taking the community with us, we are announcing that we are back, once and for all.
Have no doubt that after 8 years of darkness, 2003 will be the year that the Amiga once again makes the World remember that there is a better way.
Thank you, as ever, for your continued support and commitment.
Bill McEwen and the team at Amiga
Ben Hermans, Hyperion
Alan Redhouse, Eyetech
20-11-2002
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@sgm
That isn't trolling or flamebait....it isn't even close. Its quite polite, and it was direct and to the point.
If you had first asked Rogue to stop trolling and issuing flamebait, then I would have respected you for having a consistent approach.
But since you didn't, its fairly obvious that you use accusations of trolling/flamebait as a debate technique to shut down opposing viewpoints.
I don't find it persuasive.
In 8 days, we will know that another 8 days have past, and we can always look at things in hindsight with perfect clarity...so what...
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@MarkTime
I didn't make myself clear: I am consistently trying to persuade Hyperion folks that *my request* for a public statement is not a flamebait, because I think that we'll get no answer unless Rogue and collegues can believe our true intentions. So you were not the target of my post, sorry if that was not clear enough.
On a side note, I have a hard time rating your post "quite polite", otherwise correct and "quite to the point".
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Hello
If they are SERIOUS about the CeBit Launch, at least they should announce which stand will be used by Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc, Hyperion and Eyetech ARE NOT registered on CeBit website.
Without the announcement, visitors and buyers cann't find their stand in the large exhibition (thousands of companies and stands).
Usually a company prepare and register their stand and products at least 1 week before the important exhibition.
Will they exhibit the product on Microsoft, Motorola, IBM or other companies' stand?
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@sgm
Thank you for your clarification.
And I stand corrected. The post was 'civil', not 'polite'.
Usually I try to be careful with words, especially since with the international audience...I know its hard enough to learn english as a second language, I could at least use the correct words.....
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@MarkTime
No problem. English is just my third language. :-D
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MarkTime wrote:
@Rogue
Your response was less than helpful.
I am not here to help.
If you don't have anything to say, why post?
Just to harass already over frustrated amigans?
I just corrected wrong claims by someone. I am not here to help someone. If you call correcting false information "harrassment", then yes, that is what I did.
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@Rogue
Too much Caffeine... :-D
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>Will they exhibit the product on Microsoft, Motorola, IBM or other companies' stand?
Come on ! Get real ;)
Do you really imagine Microsoft showing a concurrent (PPC by the way !) OS on their booth ??
They have not reserved any booth because they have nothing to show and/or they don't have money, that's it !
That's my thought...
@Hyperion guys: feel free to show me (and everyone) I'm wrong...
Regards,
Leo.
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sgm wrote:
@Rogue
Too much Caffeine... :-D
No, too little rest.
To get to the point, I am not here to answer the question, and I don't care if anyone thinks I am trolling or not. What I did was correct a few false claims. I didn't say anything else. All I did say was
- U-Boot for the XE is finished
- The new Articia sillicon is finished, and I have it since quite some time.
- I was offended by the "buggy OS 4 modules".
I can accept that people are frustrated. So am I. Like I said before the community doesn't pay my bills. That is something that I have to manage myself. The only way is to go for third party development. That causes delays for OS 4. I'm sorry, but it cannot be helped. Accept it, or don't, but leave me in peace.
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Leo42 wrote:
@Hyperion guys: feel free to show me (and everyone) I'm wrong...
Regards,
Leo.
I'm afraid that the Hyperion devs can't care less, and I guess that's the right thing for them to do. Rather, it's HyperionMP that should give such information to the public.
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@Rogue
Thanks for your commitment. BTW, I have a 2yo daughter, and I know what "too little rest" means :-D
But now, frankly, I think that HyperionMP should take care of this "expectation management" stuff rather than you or EntailZha... this is part of the business after all, don't you think?
And then, demoing OS4 doesn't mean it has to be finished, of course (I should know this pretty well... sigh...)
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@Rogue
why not respond to that guys other post where he posted that text from Amiga.inc saying the A1 was in it's final testing stages in 2002?...
and that AOS4 would 'launch' at cebit? will you at least say if 'THAT" is true or false? ...and if it is true or if its a 'no comment'... then can you explain what Asian1 pointed out in his post?
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@mips_proc
You're teasing the wrong person, IMHO.
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mips_proc wrote:
@Rogue
why not respond to that guys other post where he posted that text from Amiga.inc saying the A1 was in it's final testing stages in 2002?...
Because, as I said, I am not here to answer questions. I choose to answer those that I want, and I choose to correct whatever I think or know is false. Period.
I don't make official statements. All I did (and I am growing tired of repeating myself) is point out some false claims in JurrasicCamper's post. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have more questions, I suggest you direct them at Amiga Inc.
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Anybody who has followed the news should know that there will not be any release from OS4 at Cebit. It isn't finished.
Hope this answers your question.
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Rogue wrote:
- U-Boot for the XE is finished
- The new Articia sillicon is finished, and I have it since quite some time.
Thats great :-D Thanks for the clarification.
Hopfully this means it wont be too long before the latest XE's are sent out:-)
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Like I said before the community doesn't pay my bills. ... . The only way is to go for third party development. That causes delays for OS 4.
Understood, but when you have the product for sale, we will be glad to pay you so you can pay your bills!:-P
Loki :-D
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@Rogue
quote: I'm not here to help.
response: fair enough, but may I suggest that being helpful is a good quality.
quote: if you call correcting false information "harassment", then yes, that is what I did.
No, I don't call that harassment. What I call harassment, is where someone's position is worn down via repetition, rather than through intellectual discourse.
By that definition you are not just the harasser, but also being harassed. Which is true enough. I suppose by the same line of thinking, in which you are not here to help, many people are not here to help you or accept your answers.
But, I suggest harassment on both sides is not especially helpful and therefore not recommended, but nevertheless it seems to be the only choice left, when one side has stated repeatedly that they will not engage in any other type of discussion.
But, as much as I enjoy posting commentary, I will also say this....I can see your position. If you don't have anything to say, just what the heck are you supposed to say.
It's not finished...I personally don't expect you to announce your failure to complete the project on a week by week basis. Such an exercise in humiliation would not really serve any purpose. I do think people should buy into other choices, considering the failure...not excuse it, but not go around expecting unreasonable solutions.
My personal stance is that I'm disappointed that the product is not completed, and ultimately I do blame Amiga, Inc. and not Hyperion.
I seem to be in the minority on this, but Amiga, Inc. owns the IP, they have the responsibility to complete this....if they are doing it through a contractor, or through osmosis, I don't care....they coulda/woulda/shoulda didn't.
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Rouge wrote
I don't make official statements. All I did (and I am growing tired of repeating myself) is point out some false claims in JurrasicCamper's post. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have more questions, I suggest you direct them at Amiga Inc.
Why dont you answer the question then. Saying my point about the firmware not being done is wrong.
Well if it is done, I stand corrected, but answer me this then why did the A1-XE G4s not ship on the 24 Feb 2003
There are 3 working Linux distros working on the XE so thats not the reason.
The boards have been built so thats not the reason.
I have respect for you are doing. But lets just get one thing straight.
Alan posted on the DEV list on the 25 Feb 2003 @ 18:18 Hours that......
Hyperion would be sending the final firmware by friday. (28 Feb 2003).
So at that time the firmware was not finished. There has been nothing to contradict this statement appart from you saying that it has been finished for weeks.
Now I dont disagree that there is a version of u-boot to get the board going.
It may not be the final version, but if you are saying its been finished for weeks and alan said he expected delivery 2 working days ago then someone is telling porkies and it aint me.
Care to explain ????
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JurassicCamper wrote:
Well if it is done, I stand corrected, but answer me this then why did the A1-XE G4s not ship on the 24 Feb 2003
I beleive the shipping date of the 24th was from the Taiwan factory, not to users. The 28th was the date Eyetech could have received the board by.
Eyetech also said these were estimated dates.
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Hi,
A couple of follow-up questions if you've got the time...
Rogue wrote:
- U-Boot for the XE is finished
Good to hear, but will the Teron CX and PX have the same U-Boot installed? I'm asking because the U-Boot CVS only has a Teron CX ("AmigaOne G3SE", heh) dir and nothing Teron PX specific, and apart from an added environment variable, nothing has been changed there for 2-3 months. There are quite some FIXMEs and WIPs (work in progress) there.
- The new Articia sillicon is finished, and I have it since quite some time.
Good for you, but is it in production, and more interestingly, is the Teron PX in production? (Yes, we know that there are engineering samples out there.)
I understand that you're not making Teron boards, so if you just don't know, I guess we'll just have to wait until Terra Soft have them for sale. Then we should know that Eyetech are ready to dongle them for us who need "protection" against "price gouging" dealers and whatnot...
- I was offended by the "buggy OS 4 modules".
Disregarding the "buggy" bit, could you give a hint on how much integration of these modules have been done? You know, into an OS? :) Have they all been ported to PPC yet? When can beta testing of AmigaOS 4.0 (no, not "beta testing" of separate modules) commence, if you dare to give a rough guesstimate, without any guarantees whatsoever of course?
Accept it, or don't, but leave me in peace.
I fully appreciate your sentiments, but after all this *is* a public forum where you're willingly(? ;) ) participating...
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- I was offended by the "buggy OS 4 modules".
If its still in beta it must still have a few bugs.
I see how that could offend... sorry :-D
I can accept that people are frustrated. So am I. Like I said before the community doesn't pay my bills.
We are fed up, fed up to the point were we can hang on no longer. Missed deadlines, broken promises. Escom, Viscorp, Gateway, Amino.
2000
Nov 2001... 3 months
Dec 2002... with out fail for the doubters
Jan 2003... Motorola
Feb 2003... We waited for the new Artica
Mar 2003... Whats the excuse now
Apr 2003... Another
May 2003...
Jun 2003... etc etc etc
Its been crap all off it.
I typing this on an a1200 with its mediator, network card and voodoo 3 held in place with cable ties, in a hacked together pc tower.
The family needs a new computer. I keeps saying oh hang on. Hang on. Hang on. They want a new PC.
For Word Excel and the internet.
Dont give me this crap about we arnt the ones that pay your bills.
We are your future customers. With out us you will have no one to buy your products.
I want you to suceed so I can buy your games, SDK and office ports if you take them on but dont mess us about.
If they sell 2000 A1XEs thats £1 Million UKP + Vat Eyetech will take.
I would say at least a third off that has got to be profit, split between eyetech, amiga and hyperion.
Folks if you feel you are being pissed about vote with your wallet. 200 Cancelled orders will cost them £100000 UK
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Folks if you feel you are being pissed about vote with your wallet. 200 Cancelled orders will cost them £100000 UK
No! If everyone does that then maybe Eyetech will cancel the AmigaOne project altogether - then where will we be??
Waiting for Pegasos II... ?
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news.com (http://news.com.com/2100-1001-211258.html?legacy=cnet)
"Amiga OS 4.0 will be released this November (1998), a hybrid of the former Amiga OS. Amiga 5.0 is expected in early 1999"
:-)
We're Amigans - waiting's what we're best at (all that practice).
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Hyperion arn't the ones who have been making and breaking deadlines. That's mainly A inc. I've even seen some people try to blame the problems under gateway on Hyperion :-)
f they sell 2000 A1XEs thats £1 Million UKP + Vat Eyetech will take.
Good. Amiga needs to slowly crawl back up to where it used to be. One of the reasons that development took so long was lack of funds. When Amiga, Hyperion and people start getting returns from that, it should start to speed up the R&D cycle (eg Hyperion could use money from OS4 to pay developers, instead of doing other stuff).
As a few more people trickle back into the community, there will be more money to use - things will really start to speed up. To be honest, I'm not at all surprised at the time things are taking. The userbase had shrunk to a point that Gateway decided to give up on the "classic" platform. A inc and others had the foresight to see that it could be done, but don't forget how agonisingly close the platform got to dying.
A year ago, many people were doubting that the A1's would come out. Eyetech released the G3SE's and the XE's are already in the hands of developers.
The same story is happening with the OS. There are copies being betatested right now.
Hopefully, the waiting has almost come to an end...
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MarkTime wrote:
@Rogue
response: fair enough, but may I suggest that being helpful is a good quality.
I always try to be helpful, but to what avail?
No, I don't call that harassment. What I call harassment, is where someone's position is worn down via repetition, rather than through intellectual discourse.
Everyone seem to have a hard time understanding when I say something.
By that definition you are not just the harasser, but also being harassed. Which is true enough. I suppose by the same line of thinking, in which you are not here to help, many people are not here to help you or accept your answers.
I don't care if someone accepts my answer or not. I have given the answers I wanted to give, and that is it. People seem to think I owe them something. I don't.
But, I suggest harassment on both sides is not especially helpful and therefore not recommended, but nevertheless it seems to be the only choice left, when one side has stated repeatedly that they will not engage in any other type of discussion.
I am always open for discussion, but for discussion only. Not for the usual "you are liars" and the usual "you are to blame" and the usual "you lack the talent".
I am not ready to listen to another round of "you have broken your promises" either. I'Ve elaborated on that earlier, and, as I said, I am tired to repeat myself.
.I personally don't expect you to announce your failure to complete the project on a week by week basis. Such an exercise in humiliation would not really serve any purpose. I do think people should buy into other choices, considering the failure...not excuse it, but not go around expecting unreasonable solutions.
If you want it, here it is: Yes, we failed to deliver until now. Very specifically, I said "until now". We have utterly failed if and only if the project is canned. It isn't, and there is no intention to do so.
Like I saiid a number of times, there are limits as to what a man can do. We are doing our best, under the worst possible circumstances, to finish the project. We only ever issue deadlines because we are continously harassed by people to give them. Each and every time unforseeable things happened, and things got delayed.
No, we have not failed yet.
I seem to be in the minority on this, but Amiga, Inc. owns the IP, they have the responsibility to complete this....if they are doing it through a contractor, or through osmosis, I don't care....they coulda/woulda/shoulda didn't.
It is always easy to say "they must" or "they have to". From a user's point of view it might be hard to understand this, but just look at this day. I spent more time fighting off harassment (and yes, maybe dealing it out) than productive work.
If you think this is easy, you're mistaken. If you think it isn't, why is it so hard to understand?
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JurassicCamper wrote:
Why dont you answer the question then. Saying my point about the firmware not being done is wrong.
I don't have any idea what question you mean?
Well if it is done, I stand corrected, but answer me this then why did the A1-XE G4s not ship on the 24 Feb 2003
How am I supposed to know? Did you write Eyetech about that?
I have respect for you are doing. But lets just get one thing straight.
Alan posted on the DEV list on the 25 Feb 2003 @ 18:18 Hours that......
Hyperion would be sending the final firmware by friday. (28 Feb 2003).
So at that time the firmware was not finished. There has been nothing to contradict this statement appart from you saying that it has been finished for weeks.
Where did I say it was finished for weeks? I said the new Articia sillicon was finished since some weeks. If you want to know, I sent out the firmware on tuesday.
It may not be the final version, but if you are saying its been finished for weeks and alan said he expected delivery 2 working days ago then someone is telling porkies and it aint me.
Care to explain ????
I just did. You said:
"New Articia S revision... Never Materialized".
I said: I have it since weeks.
You said: "U-boot not finished".
I said "wrong", and harrassed you by adding "Stop making things up repeatedly". MarkTime is right, I do apologize for that (not for the rest, though).
You said "Correct me if I'm wrong".
I said "I just did".
You said "OS4 modules are buggy".
Care to explain why that was necessary?
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Two points:
1.) WOW! One day, Hyperion rocks, the next day they're scum. Middle ground, perhaps? We all act like we've got monthly women's problems or something!2.) The fact that the original question is pointedly NOT being answered means that there is a BIG answer coming. It can only be one of two:
It's taking us longer than anticipated, or
Look at what we're showing at CeBIT! What a launch surprize!
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Seehund wrote:
Good to hear, but will the Teron CX and PX have the same U-Boot installed? I'm asking because the U-Boot CVS only has a Teron CX ("AmigaOne G3SE", heh) dir and nothing Teron PX specific, and apart from an added environment variable, nothing has been changed there for 2-3 months. There are quite some FIXMEs and WIPs (work in progress) there.
Yes, the bios is identical for both boards. I don't have the time to send the tarball to Wolfgang Denk too often, because things get modiffied on an almost daily basis. Also, in places I did some rather heavy modifications, and since I don't want to break the other builds I am a bit weary of submitting this stuff. That doesn't mean that I am not ready to, I just don't have the time to. If someone asks me for the source, he'll get it.
Good for you, but is it in production, and more interestingly, is the Teron PX in production? (Yes, we know that there are engineering samples out there.)
I understand that you're not making Teron boards, so if you just don't know, I guess we'll just have to wait until Terra Soft have them for sale. Then we should know that Eyetech are ready to dongle them for us who need "protection" against "price gouging" dealers and whatnot...
I would have answered that, but since you could not refrain yourself from adding that spicy bit of extra, I am going to refrain myself from an answer. If you expect one, leave this out in your question.
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hey, Rogue !
The community is very fustrated at the moment and attacking you, Hyperion etc is simply not on.
There are people here that do support your efforts and appreciate what you are doing in giving us OS 4 under poor of circumstances.
I know OS4 is almost done and its hard for people to understand how much it takes to ensure a quality product.
Hyperion simply does not give release dates anymore, is that hard to understand people ?
I have my eye on May ! This is simply my personal guess.
Rogue, your efforts are appreciated. thanks.
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Rogue wrote:
Where did I say it was finished for weeks? I said the new Articia sillicon was finished since some weeks. If you want to know, I sent out the firmware on tuesday.
I appologise I miss read your posting. I thought you was refering to u-boot. My sincere appologies.
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OK, I just wrote up a reply to that and deleted it again.
I made a big mistake.
I tried to defend myself against false claims made by you, and got dragged into a "peck-the-idiot" game where I am the idiot. That's it. Continue this thread if you like, blame us for whatever you feel like if it makes you feel better.
Like I said, I can understand your frustration, and I accept this up to a certain point. This point has now been reached.
Believe it or not, you are *not* paying my bills right now, and until you do I have to see who does, and this is exactly what I am going to do now.
And I made another mistake.
I thought it might be a good idea to answer peoples questions from time to time on public forums. At one point I regretted my decision to withdraw from public, but now I know exactly why I did so.
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@ Rogue
Tip:
Just load up the "Hyperion Rocks!" thread now and then to refill your "harassment-resistance". :-)
Hang in there.
.
SlimJim
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@rouge
I appreciate all your efforts, even if i don't always say so in these sorts of threads. I keep quite most of the time, but I am sure that there are many people like me who support you but don't post through the fear of getting thier head ripped off.
As SlimJim said, hang in there
All the best
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I agree, sit back have a drink.
I support you and meant what I said on the
"Hyperion Rocks!" thread.
Lets see -
You and Thomas updated the bios yourselves - something a professional company could not do.
You converted the Amiga kernal to PPC and created the HAL.
You both added virtual memory, multithreading, multiprocessing etc to the kernal.
and loads of other stuff - you guys cannot stop AMAZING ME
we are going to see the fastest AmigaOS in the world thanks to you and Thomas + OS development team !
This is the biggest upgrade to AmigaOS EVER.
You guys ROCK !!
Keep the dream, friends :-) :-)
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@Asymetrix:
Sure it is.
:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
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*Bodie breaks into a dreadful cacophonic melody*
OS4, we can't do it any other way
Everybody's got to rock and roll, whoo, oh, oh
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
If you don't feel good, there's a way you could
Don't sit there broken hearted
Call all your geeky friends in the neighborhood
And get the party started
Don't tell them anymore
They're too way old to really understand
You'll still get rowdy with the girls and boys
'Cause it's time for you to take a stand, yeah, yeah
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
You've got to have a party
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
Turn it up louder
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
Everybody shout it now
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
Oh yeah
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
Hear it gettin' louder
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
And everybody shout it now
Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud
*Bodie ends dreadful singing*
And yes, before anyone asks, I am a name follower
:-D.
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Ok i know i dont post a lot but i read a lot and now i got 2 things to say.
1. dont bite the hand that feeds(or at least is doing their best to feed you in the near future)
2. stop spelling rogue's name wrong i dont know if its annoying him but it would annoy me if people kep calling me a girly name like "rouge" (another name for blusher)
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I spent more time fighting off harassment (and yes, maybe dealing it out) than productive work.
well thats not ideal.
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Why is people attacking Hyperion???
I think Hyperion is the only ones that really belive in a new amiga. They are the ones that does all the hard work.
Eyetech is just selling some MAIboards with the hyperionrom on to my understanding.
Don´t you remmeber the Commodore policy:
Always deny that there will be an new amiga, so we can sell out the old ones first.
And you think it was better in the "good old days"!!
If you want someone to blame, go blame Amiga DE Inc!
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Every time anyone starts to feel a little frustrated, go read up on the original history of the Amiga.
The trials and tribulations that the original company faced - and that was with corporate backing to get started.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
I've waited since 1997, 6 years, I can wait a little longer.
Siggy.
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All of you "experts" who are constantly throwing dirt at Hyperion - shut up and sit down!
I am observing the "Community" since some months,collecting info and playing with thought of getting myself an AmigaOne with OS4 to replace my 450Mhz G3 iMac and I cannot believe whats going on sometimes in Amiga-Forums.
Instead of being happy that there are still a handful of companies supporting a old platform like the Amiga, everybody is complaining!
I don´t get it!
Whats wrong with you people?
Some of you behave as if Hyperion had stolen your cars or raped your dogs and burned down your houses. ;-)
Calm down!
After all, this is no religion (NO,ITS NOT! :-D ) ,this is just about computers.
Hyperion will do a good job and I will be patiently waiting until they have completed their masterpiece and be grateful.
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Rogue wrote:
I thought it might be a good idea to answer peoples questions from time to time on public forums. At one point I regretted my decision to withdraw from public, but now I know exactly why I did so.
/me nods. People on the other side of the fence will always twist words/interpret words in the wrong way/try to paint someone black. I for one would not dislike it if you guys don't reply to stuff.
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My personal stance is that I'm disappointed that the product is not completed, and ultimately I do blame Amiga, Inc. and not Hyperion.
@ Marktime
You're not the only one. :-x
AInc has been totally wrong for say the past year or so. They have done nothing but make empty promises and taken peoples money for 'coupons', but failed to deliver the merchandise *PROMISED* with it.
Here's the stickler. The *ONE* guy that, for the most part, has been the *ONLY* person to offer information is the one being 'condemned' here,so he doesn't want to say *ANYTHING* 'cos he's tired of being blamed for something beyond his control. I've talked to Rogue a few times in PM's and I've asked him 'man to man' about OS4. To his credit, he STILL won't say anything, even in a PRIVATE statement.
Hans-Jorg, Thomas,Ben and Alan, they *ARE* Amiga. It is *THEY* that keep the dream alive, not you people that consistantly complain, 'cos you don't hear anything. You think that it's Bill and the guy's at Amiga Inc that 'support' us?? You heard it from Rogue's mouth himself. He *HAS* to find outside work, 'cos *WE* do not pay his bills. What does that mean? AI forked over *NOTHING*, but the IP. You think Hans-Jorg, Thomas, Ben, Alan and the others are getting *PAID* by AI? Think again. They didn't get jack Sh!t, but an opportunity to make money off an operating system that was incredible, only they get to fix the problems with it ! The problem is, they can't make any money off it, until it ships, so they find *OUTSIDE* work to support themselves. Still, there are some of you out there that are *STILL* gonna bitch! :-(
Even *I* am getting impatient with you guys. There are things that I don't like, but all you do is constantly complain. Yeah, C-Bit is 8 days away, but haven't *ANY* of you figured out that AI does *NOT* know how to make an announcment?? :-o I don't pay attention to them, 'cos they've *PROVEN* that they're not trustworthy. Be happy with what you *DO* know and know that Hyperion *WILL* finish it. Why? 'Cos it opens a *NEW* market for them.
I remember reading a post a some time ago about QII and Hyperion said it *BARELY* ran on an '060!!!! Isn't that just enough for you to *WAIT* for something better? Sure the A1 isn't the BEST, but you're, I'm sorry to say, a F*CKING MORON if you don't think it's an *IMPROVEMENT* over ANY 'Classic' Box.
Things take time. You should *ALL* of us be grateful that there are people out there like Hans-Jorg, Thomas, Ben and all the others who still care about the platform. Since *NONE* of us are paying their bills, who are we to complain about a product that isn't out, when they're working on it, essentially in their free time, 'cos they won't make *ANY* profit off it until it's released? Sure, you could say that 'Well, if they'd hurry up and finish it, we could buy it'...blah blah...Get real, just like you, they live in the *REAL* world. They have bills, just like we do and if the electricty's not paid, they can't work. Be a bit more sympathetic. If anything, have some class.
As was said earlier, in 8 days, we will know it's been 8 more days. Nothing more. If and when Ce-Bit arrives, be hopeful. Give these guys some credit. They've OBVIOUSLY done more than ANYONE before them, so have some faith. If you should be digusted with ANYONE it should be Amiga Inc. Besides, Hyperion did *US* a favor. If AI goes bust, they STILL can release OS4, 'cos it's in the contract.
You won't find out anything more right now. Get over it.
M
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@Rogue
Don't worry those being deliberately lame are just
adding to their already tarnished "political" reputation.
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People, whose bitching at AOS4 developers:
I would like to know who of you are developerson this level, working in tight circumstances on a low payed ( at least middle range ) project !?
re
Treke
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I thought it might be a good idea to answer peoples questions from time to time on public forums. At one point I regretted my decision to withdraw from public, but now I know exactly why I did so.
Rogue, thank you for your comments.
However, I have to disagree with you on the reasons why your response was taken as it was. I believe this is the same reason why Hyperion has been confronted many times in the past as well, like after the Ben Yoris incident.
Your original reply in this thread completely ignored the valid, main argument (factual too) of the poster and you only shot down some mistaken details of his making him sound like a troll in the process. No matter how much I, and I'm sure many others, appreciate you nitpicking and giving us details we all like to read, I'm sure many of us, at least me, would appreciate opennes even more.
The poster to whom you replied to had a point. The point was factual, even if some of the details in his extended rhetoric were not. You were quite correct and within your rights to correct him, but I believe some of the frustration (as can be seen from comments above) stems from the fact that you ingored what was significant about the post, and criticized him for a few false details only.
It simply looked like you were trying to divert people from the valid main argument by shooting down some details. This is exactly what happened with the Ben Yoris incident a month or two back, and later his comments were essentially proven to be pretty much on the mark. Basically it seems to some of us that you are trying to make people who point out negative but factual things look like trolls or FUD mongers just because they get a detail or two wrong.
We're not stupid and we don't like to be treated that way.
It doesn't help, really, that you later say you understand our frustration (even though I appreciate that) when the initial response to this and other similar situations from Hyperion seems to be utter denial to the obvious. My suggested response for you originally would have been something along the lines of:
"Sure, you've got a point. We're sorry about the delay and are working as fast as we can. Sorry, but I can't comment on the project status because it is not within my authority to do so. You also got a few details wrong, let me correct them: ..."
I appreciate the difficulty of communicating in an environment like this, and I wish you well. Hopefully these remarks will give you some new insight (although I have made these comments to you on threads before).
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jtsiren wrote:
We're not stupid and we don't like to be treated that way.
In spite of myself, here's an answer to that: No.
For the repeated time, I did correct a few false pieces of information. That was it. Yes, I didn't answer to the original question. No, I didn't try to divert away from that question. I just didn't answer it. And I didn't treat anyone like he is stupid.
About that Ben Yoris incident, I specifically said (and I repeat it here) that his assessment of the situation was wrong. More so because he was talking about OS 4 in general, not only on the AmigaOne. It doesn't come as a surprise when I say that the AmigaOne version will come after the CyberStormPPC, because that is what we always said, but it *will* be *this* year. I never tried to divert people away from that.
I appreciate the difficulty of communicating in an environment like this, and I wish you well. Hopefully these remarks will give you some new insight (although I have made these comments to you on threads before).
For one thing, please acknowledge that there are some things (not specifically aimed at this topic) that I simply must not discuss. Others I do not discuss because I don't want to heat up the debate anymore than necessary (and believe me, I could tell stories). So I try to answer those questions that I have an answer to, and correct those things that I think is wrong.
I try to explain the delays we had in such a way. Sometimes, a statement is exactly what it seems it is.
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Marky_D_Sahd wrote:
Two points:
1.) WOW! One day, Hyperion rocks, the next day they're scum. Middle ground, perhaps? We all act like we've got [...]
I'm not surprised. The same happened to Haage & Partner a year ago. Fanatics can raise you, and kill you in an instant. I say, I still respect Hyperion.
However, for Hyperion as amiga developers: This community comes as is, with no guarantees. It's exhausting and tiring, when those praising you one day yelling at you the other. Instead, stick to those who are less fanatic, and who are here with a bit of scepticism. They will not fail you. Will not praise you for announcements, feature lists, but will acknowledge the job you do for the platform. IMO
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Warface wrote:
Marky_D_Sahd wrote:
Two points:
1.) WOW! One day, Hyperion rocks, the next day they're scum. Middle ground, perhaps? We all act like we've got [...]
I'm not surprised. The same happened to Haage & Partner a year ago. Fanatics can raise you, and kill you in an instant. I say, I still respect Hyperion.
However, for Hyperion as amiga developers: This community comes as is, with no guarantees. It's exhausting and tiring, when those praising you one day yelling at you the other. Instead, stick to those who are less fanatic, and who are here with a bit of scepticism. They will not fail you. Will not praise you for announcements, feature lists, but will acknowledge the job you do for the platform. IMO
Praise? Maybe not. But I do respect Hyperion's attempt to remain communicative throughout this process far more than AmigaInc's "guess what we're doing this month" attitude (and yes, I do get the "Club Amiga" magazine, that which used to be called "Amiga World" in years past, and is still on their site, and do not find it to be all that informative, thogh some stuff in issue is at least thought worthyRogue is correct in one aspect: They owe us nothing at this point.They certainly don't owe us weekly updates and ever-changing announcements about when the product will ship.
P.S. Rogue: The IBrowse team suffered the same attacks just before the product shipped because of a 6 week delay for bug squashing. The insanity an their mailing list was extraordinary. Ignore it. When OS4 is released, the FUD will all go away.
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"Just remember: No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai, 1985
That is one of the BEST movies I ever saw. I loved that one when I was a kid. :-D
Don't worry too much about it, Rogue. You can't have the sweet without the sour.
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About that Ben Yoris incident, I specifically said (and I repeat it here) that his assessment of the situation was wrong. More so because he was talking about OS 4 in general, not only on the AmigaOne.
You are wrong here.
The Thread he was talking in was about a new Amigaone dealer in France and OS4 to be available for it in march.
What Ben did is to say that users should not expect to have OS4 ready for their Amigaone in march, that it could be much longer than that (up to end of 2003).
He was just trying to avoid the people to be angry at Hyperion one more time because of slipping release dates, purchased AmigaOne that run only Linux and so on.
You have implied on ANN that Ben was lying and this was wrong. :-x
It may be because of a confusion of the (bad) translation which included only what Ben said but you have jumped to conclusions to fast.
It is the same history as with Bill Buck claiming there is no MAI without april.
We can see that up to today he was right: The Amigaone has not shipped in large numbers because of the Articia chip. The April chip correct the bugs that are being corrected in the upcoming Articia.
It is the same story as with Ben H claiming in september last year that the Articia had no bug and that Bplan where not smart enough to find out that.
Hyperion lost its credibility !
What is killing Hyperion/Eyetech right now is the fact that they have been announcing release dates that were predictably not possible and also the fact that they jump on each Genesi announce to say "it's wrong it's wrong, it is FUD", stolen source code public allegations and so on.
You may have better stayed quiet on the Ben Yoris case for example. I understand your position as being just the coder and not the marketing person, but then do not play marketing people role at all.
I appreciate a lot the Hyperion people for what they did and what they do but I suspect that Ben H has been knowing for ages that OS4 was far from being completed and played this delay game just to hurt the competition.
I'am also sure that if you were not an Hyperion employee and would use all your objectiveness you would think that delivering end users with machine that do not run the expected OS and not giving them any official release date is something that should not happen. It is also a way to lock in these users and get them away from the competition.
If I was Genesi I would have taken much more aggressive actions against such low actions.
We have nothing against the Frieden brothers, we just have wished that the Amiga and Hyperion heads would not have taken us for more idiots than we are. :-(
I also have always wondered if Hyperion took over OS4 because they had great business plans for it or if it was just to wage a vendetta coming from old PPC kernel stupid fights.
It is sad that you have been taken into these poor political tricks. Good luck anyway.
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Folks, give it up.
It's the typical Monty Python situation. If I say "you're wrong", it is "he denies it. It is him". If I say "you're right", then it is "he admits it. It is him". If I say nothing at all, I am guilty by definition.
Since I am obviously creating just another uproar by pointing out where I think you are wrong, I just skip it.
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@Rogue.
well said. i was wondering why you took all this vocal abuse.
And as others did mention, don't listen to the whiners. you have plenty support without them..
And keep up the good work.
LB