Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / General => Topic started by: on March 11, 2005, 06:47:33 PM
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Hi guys,
I'm just sitting here, thinking of the next phase of my life as it were and I have an idea. I am going to start working on a new site specifically intended to allow people to discuss world events that don't make sense. Think of it as an expanded version of the Coffee House forums with a dash of slashdot built in.
I've registered a domain which is pretty copyrightable and is both appropriate and fun. I could use everyone's input and help as it comes together and I'd invite you to be a part of the beginning of it. I'll release the name as it comes closer to being online and ready for use but it will be a fun ride.
Any graphics guys still out there? I'm sure I'll need a new logo and stuff.
Wayne
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Gah! www.whosyfeckindaddy.com is snapped up!
(joke)
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nah, this is actually much shorter and easier to remember. Could use a superhero mascot, but not one of the typical squirrels.
Wayne
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Whatever happened to simplybitchin ?
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Wayne wrote:
Could use a superhero mascot, but not one of the typical squirrels.
If it's for ranting, there's one that springs to mind
(http://tillpoint.com/_rsc/ascii_net.jpg)
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Sounds interesting
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Cool Wayne. I'll be there.
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i do great pics with sheep! :lol:
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There's also the sock.
There, look I said it :-D
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Isn't that sock getting pretty crusty by now? I can't imagine it would be much fun to use?
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the crustier the better!
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cecilia wrote:
the crustier the better!
:lol:
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After five years worth of use I should imagine crusty doesn't do the effect justice. Petrified would be more like it :lol:
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@sock fetishists
I see socks are still quite fasionable around here. If you aren't careful I might have to go hunting for my old sock avatar :-D
@wayne
Sounds like a cool idea, are you planning for it to have an Amiga theme? Either way, I'm sure when the time comes I'll be able to lend a hand in some way :-)
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@Wayne
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Think of it as an expanded version of the Coffee House forums with a dash of slashdot built in.
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How would it be different than the thousands of blog sites?
What would be the draw? (To keep people comming back}
What keeps it from degenerating into name calling? The discussions that take place here are "gentlemanly" compared to some political sites.
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metalman wrote:
What keeps it from degenerating into name calling?
Oh shut up knob-nose!!!!
ooops. Sorry.
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Good idea.
The problem would be to keep discussions civil.
The reasons that they have done so here, is that the site is focused on Amiga.
Our attitude towards eachother is way better than it will ever be on a pure political forum.
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@adz
It has nothing to do with the Amiga.
@whomever is using socks
I see socks are still quite fasionable around here. If you aren't careful I might have to go hunting for my old sock avatar
It has nothing to do with socks. The socks joke is far more worn out than the pancakes joke at this point. For some of you, the socks are threadbare and the callouses are many if you catch my drift.
@metalman
How would it be different than the thousands of blog sites?
Not saying it would or won't. Hasn't even begun operation yet, so it's far too early to tell.
What would be the draw? (To keep people comming back}
You all come back here to the coffee house don't you? Most of you have nothing to do with the Amiga any more.
What keeps it from degenerating into name calling?
The same thing that keeps any site from degenerating into namecalling.
@whabang
The problem would be to keep discussions civil.
The reasons that they have done so here, is that the site is focused on Amiga. Our attitude towards each other is way better than it will ever be on a pure political forum.
I'm amazed that anyone would consider the Coffee House as civil. Just remember that for the long start, only Amiga.org people would be there.
@everyone reading.
Here are the problems and the thoughts in a nutshell.
1) Amiga.org is unfocused. Wherein Amiga.org used to be the primary resource for Amiga Information on the web, it now simply isn't. Distracted by a couple of things, such as the Coffee House forums and of course, the fact that the Amiga itself is pretty much stagnant. Even Amiga Inc is supposedly distancing itself as far as it can from the desktop platform, leaving hands-off to Hyperion and Eyetech.
2) The software that Amiga.org is currently using is woefully inadequate to the task and considering the Xoops team's propensity to embrace newer Web technologies, it's never going to get better for the Amiga-using members of this site since the browsers on the Amiga are still stuck in 1999. When I say that about the browsers, please understand that I mean NO offense to any of the authors. I simply accept and acknowledge the fact that no Amiga author can keep up with new technologies the way a thousand person staffed Mozilla or IE can.
In short, we will eventually NEED to reboot the site and simply walk into more appropriate software. This site however, as it sits, would be archived on another domain in read-only mode.
That being said, due to;
a) continual stress in my personal life
b) certain {bleep}s who continue to try and run everyone off and ruin this site for everyone else
c) the fact that for all intents and purposes, the status of the Amiga platform isn't likely to change any time soon,
I have been considering closing Amiga.org for quite some time. At the same time, I have been desperately searching for a way, and a reason to keep the site going. My solution is quite simple.
- Create a new site where everyone who enjoys the coffee house can be happy without distracting from Amiga.org
- make the new site more of a blog where the news items equate to the same way forum posts work here. You submit a news item, everyone discusses it in comments.
- remove the coffee house area from Amiga.org to run off the rabble. Leaving one single "general discussion" forum instead of encouraging non-Amiga-related debate.
- rewrite, rebuild, and refocus Amiga.org into what it ought to have been. The completely unbiased resource for Amiga information on the Web.
In short, in my mind, in order for Amiga.org to survive, a split is in order. I know a lot of you won't agree with that, but remember that change is always hard to accept.
I believe that if we do this, then remember to come back and refocus Amiga.org on the Amiga, that it would not only survive, but be stronger for the process. The new site is only one of a dozen or so I'll be planning as part of my company's web presence. The first one is pretty much the key.
I'll let you guys know what this new site is, as it becomes even mildly usable and stable.
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@Wayne
Well, compared to most other political discussion forums on the net, the Coffee house is rather civil. Still, there's far to much {bleep}-throwing.
I think it might be good for this site if the political rants are taken somwhere else.
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whabang wrote:
@Wayne
Well, compared to most other political discussion forums on the net, the Coffee house is rather civil. Still, there's far to much {bleep}-throwing.
I think it might be good for this site if the political rants are taken somwhere else.
Hey Yo!
Yeah i agree there. The CH ain't that bad compared to other forums (GP32 Xtreme for example, have a bad attitude to newbies). But i agree about the forum splitting as well. My only point is would the audience of the Amiga part fall? Does AmigaWorld have this problem?
Regards,
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Does AmigaWorld have this problem?
I have no idea, but it's really irrelevant. The problem we have is twits, several of which have been banned lately and a long problem of idiots who play the "it wasn't me, it was my friend/brother/etc who used my machine game".
We are not competing with Amigaworld.net. We never have. We serve different purposes. The thing about it is, Amigaworld is simply the culmination of a 5-year cycle which comes about every 5 years, starting with the old Amiga Web Directory.
- People used the AWD because it was the only thing there.
- People loved Kevin Hisel
- After 5 years of disappointment and lies following the death of Commodore, Kevin started spending less and less time and showed less interest on the AWD.
- We started Amiga.org to pick up the slack.
- AWD people hated Amiga.org (and me) for "competing"
- AWD people began to move to Amiga.org
- People started to dislike Kevin Hisel
- CUCUG shut down the AWD.
- People used Amiga.org because it was the only thing there.
- People liked us
- After 5 years of constant lies, disappointment, being hated, and being outright screwed for trying to support the community, I started spending less and less time on and showed less interest in Amiga.org.
- They started Amigaworld.net to pick up the slack.
- everyone hated Amigaworld.net for "competing"
- AO people began to move to Amigaworld.net
- People started hating Amiga.org (and me)
- You can see where this is headed
My guess is that people just want someone to blame for their disappointment, and once Amiga.org is gone, Amigaworld.net *will* follow the same cycle. Especially as they finally accept the fact that the Amiga PPC desktop platform is pretty much stillborn. Which person at Amigaworld.net will become the next Judas has yet to be seen.
After 10 years of running Amiga.org and being spat on by a few of the loudmouth children, it's sometimes very, very, very, very, very difficult to find any justification to continue all of this.
My only hope is to find a solution which gives me a reason (nevermind enthusiasm) to continue and opening up additional sites to keep me busy appears to be my best possible path.
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
@whomever is using socks
I see socks are still quite fasionable around here. If you aren't careful I might have to go hunting for my old sock avatar
It has nothing to do with socks. The socks joke is far more worn out than the pancakes joke at this point. For some of you, the socks are threadbare and the callouses are many if you catch my drift.
hm, not so grumpy plz,
ASCII, Socky and pancake gives Aorg a his own character, :-)
Legends will be told about ASCII and the quest for the crusty, in a pancake wrapped, sock
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@Wayne
"You all come back here to the coffee house don't you? Most of you have nothing to do with the Amiga any more."
Yeah man, this is truely sad! But, Don't have an Amiga anymore (for various reason) and I just can't seem to let the idea of it go. :-?
"Especially as they finally accept the fact that the Amiga PPC desktop platform is pretty much stillborn."
Which is sad. :-(
"Which person at Amigaworld.net will become the next Judas has yet to be seen."
Which is even more sad. :-(
This one of the reasons the Amiga scene sucks frankly. There are too many Judas' out there.
"After 10 years of running Amiga.org and being spat on by a few of the loudmouth children, it's sometimes very, very, very, very, very difficult to find any justification to continue all of this."
Man, what a bad trip. I have only props for you, your design, and management of this site. If I lay out for a while, I end up comeing back and believe it or not I still get a pmail from time to time asking for Amiga advice... Which I am always happy to give it my best (even though I am quite out of it circa OS 3.1.).
I've got a tons of killer advice from everyone. From C128 issues to Amiga things, everyone is cool. Even KennyR (my coffee house arch-nemisis) has helped me.
As for your theory on the "cycle of Judas'" I'll tell you man, once amiga.org is gone, I will be out of the amiga scene period. Gone. Finito. I don't want to get aquainted with a new crew on a another website for a platform I doubt I'll ever use again.
Sad but true :-(
All the same you kick ass and a.org kicks ass.
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Wayne wrote:
After 10 years of running Amiga.org and being spat on by a few of the loudmouth children, it's sometimes very, very, very, very, very difficult to find any justification to continue all of this.
Well, let's see. I'm sure I speak for the vast majority of us when I say I really appreciate the effort you put into the site and supporting the community in general.
There's an old saying about not being able to please all the people all of the time, but I think on the whole your'e doing a great job of pleasing most of us all the time.
I imagine the problem is that an "in your face" kind of attack from some disgruntled individual is hard to ignore, whereas the silent appreciation of the masses is often equally hard to notice.
Amiga.org is pretty damn unique and a great site. It is still the foremost amiga resource on the web. You only need to visit the amiga specific sections of the site to see that. You won't find me asking questions about how to use some particular amiga API or how to fix a dodgy blizzard etc anywhere else, for example (ok I might do so on AW.net occasionally too). That's because I know that someone here will know the answer. Likewise if I see some amiga related problem someone else asks I can help with I'll chip in whatever I can.
Now the expanded CH forums may give the impression of a loss of focus, but it is merely a side effect of the fact that a lot of us amigans have a lot more to talk about than our amigas.
Think on it for a moment. There are countless places on the web where we could all go and chat about whatever and have the odd rant about this that or the other. So why do we come here? Again, because it's unique and I would still say has a strong sense of community, despite everything that has happened to us as a community.
Like many others, aside from my amiga needs, I like to come here to unwind, chat with similar (and sometimes completely dissimilar) minded people about whatever is going on in the world, enjoy the bits of silliness here and there.
Amiga.org basically serves both sides with equal aplomb. You get your amiga problems serviced and you get to enjoy a good debate, silly joke or two and some class company.
It's a great accomplishment of which I think you should be proud.
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Wayne wrote:
@metalman
What would be the draw? (To keep people comming back}
You all come back here to the coffee house don't you? Most of you have nothing to do with the Amiga any more.
>I just have my personal AMIGA museum...and an A3000 still running PhonePak's as an answering service.
What keeps it from degenerating into name calling?
The same thing that keeps any site from degenerating into namecalling.
@whabang
The problem would be to keep discussions civil.
The reasons that they have done so here, is that the site is focused on Amiga. Our attitude towards each other is way better than it will ever be on a pure political forum.
I'm amazed that anyone would consider the Coffee House as civil. Just remember that for the long start, only Amiga.org people would be there.
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>I read one or two blogs everyday, and scan another 10, and another 10 I scan occasionally.
It IS amazingly civil here, plus I realise that no matter how misguided they currently may be, They STILL have at least ONE redeaming quality, except for maybe FluffyMcDeath, he's like the killer Chuckie doll!!! :lol:
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In short, in order for Amiga.org to survive, a split is in order. I know a lot of you won't agree with that, but remember that change is always hard to accept.
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>I think you've made a reasonable case,
Just link from Amiga.org to the new site. Still check Amiga news..., with that eternal faint hope..., no matter how illogical, or unreasonable..., that something....a chance... OK, 1/TEN Billionth of a chance...BUT A CHANCE Never the less!
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@Wayne
I'll let you guys know what this new site is, as it becomes even mildly usable and stable.
>PM me if you want feedback.
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I started comming here about 7 years ago now, for me it was a great resource that helped me push the boundaries that came with my A1200 to new levels.
I signed up a few years later, I watched in abject horror as the site was defaced by people who should have known better... But still this is a massive resource for anyone wanting to get to know this very odd little computer that captured our imaginations.
When I outgrew my Amigas, and moved onto BeOS I found that the people here, the community that gathered here, the flexability of this site kept me comming back, I could go to specifically political sites but frankly there are very few out there that are as... calm as this one.
For me this site is something of a home from home. Its a place to relax, to discus and laugh in. As Karlos said so eloquently, this place is unique in all the net.
I also have to agree with McNorris, to seperate this place into a political forum site and an Amiga only site to me would be a mistake of monumental proportions to my mind. I also can't honestly see myself bouncing into two sites where one used to do.. I suspect that beyond a couple of very close friendships (you folk know who you are) I would likely drift away at a rate of knotts from the resulting {bleep} children of this site.
This site has survived precisely because it has changed with the communities tastes, how many other amiga centric sites can say that? As you yourself pointed out Wayne, the previous heavy hitter that was the Amiga Web Directory died a death, this site has moved beyond the amiga centric world that it started out in, AmigaWorld, well I wish it and the people who go there all the best, but at best its a shallow imitation of this place for people firmly stuck in a pre C= banrupcy era in my view.
Wayne, I implore you, if you never listen to another word I say, please listen and take note of what I'm about to say: Don't break up this wonderful place.
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@Wayne
I've been here for what, almost two years now, the only reason I found the site was because I had dug my old A2000 out of the cupboard in a less than pefect state, I asked for help and I got it. That help prompted me to try and become an active member of this great site. If I hadn't found this site, my A2000 would have gone back to its resting place never to see the light of day again. This site has also given me inspiration to further my collection so that I can contribute in some way to keeping the spirit of the Amiga alive. I thoughoughly enjoy using my old machines, sure I don't use them for anything productive, but they give me the timeout I so desperatly need after a hard day at work. I have this site to thank for that. Sure my contributions to this site aren't all that Amiga related, but thats because I have nothing really to say about Amiga, I help people where I can but I mostly enjoy this site because I can come here and chat with other like minded people. TBH, I don't see Amiga ever becoming more than a hobby machine and the A1 will go down in history as yet another failed attempt at an Amiga rebirth. However, so long as this site lives on, so will, IMHO, the spirit of the Amiga that we knew from the mid 80's to the mid 90's.
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as usual, Karlos and the_leander have said how I feel using words i couldn't possibly put together as well (being the spazz I am with words) :-P
I think we need to give Wayne a Big Group Hug :knuddel:
If I remember correctly I think I've only met Wayne once and barely exchanged more than a hello. Wayne and Kermit were busy talking and I didn't want to interrupt.
However, I feel that even if I don't agree with everything Wayne has ever done or said here, I totally respect him and appreciate the immense hard work that is required to maintain this site.
So, this is my official Thank You.
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Hi cecilia,
Thank you, and everyone else but what I need isn't a hug, compliments, money, or anything else really. Well, I'm human. Compliments help, and money pays the rent, but they can't be the final standard by which interest is measured.
What I need is an injection of interest, motivation, or a reason to continue putting up with it all. In my mind, the Amiga platform really is dead. Amiga Inc has no plan, they've taken an intentionally hands-off stance with the AmigaOne/OS4 -- pretty much "giving" the Amiga desktop to Hyperion and Eyetech.
That being said, I like Ben Hermans. He's a good guy and I'll drink with him any time I have the opportunity.
However I feel that without a real parent company left, there's no real future or market left for the AmigaOne or OS4. Why? There are less than 2000 active buyers left in the Amiga "community" and my bet is that almost all of them have already bought their motherboard of choice. While they might eventually sell "1000" other A1 boards to Genesi followers, the AmigaOne (and even the identical Pegasos) is both antiquated and overpriced in such a way to where it would never appeal to an end-user OUTSIDE the Amiga market. Outside sales are the only way that the future could be secured.
Why would anyone outside the community be tempted to buy an $800 motherboard/cpu combo to run an unsupported OS (meaning OS without any real software or developer base) when they could purchase a Mac Mini for $500 and run Linux or OSX on it? I see the only way that AmigaOS could survive is as an alternative OS for the Mac Mini hardware, but....
I digress, because I'm really getting off-point here. When I started Amiga.org in 1995, Commodore had just folded. There was a huge community, a purpose, and a reason for all the effort we put in. There was also a lot of faith and confidence that someone would surface to continue the Amiga as the desktop platform we had all come to love. With respect to Bill and "Fleecy", that, simply stated, ain't Amiga Inc.
Indeed, IMHO, while there's a LOT to fault, I would have to say that Gateway was our best shot, and we all know how that worked out. They at least had a staff that cared about the community, and in retrospect, I've wondered probably a dozen times whether I should have simply followed Kevin Hisel's lead when he closed the AWD 5 years ago. We're just chasing a pipe dream and getting more and more rabid the longer that dream avoids us.
The problem is that with everything else I've gone through and been put through chasing the dream, in my soul, the dream has already died. It makes me very sad to think this, but after 10 years and to be totally honest, I just have no faith or interest any longer in what could have been.
Combine that with the few rabid puppies intent on screwing up this site and running off it's core members for their own purpose and you might begin to understand the funk I'm in whereas this site is concerned. I have, after all done this for 10 years now (as of April 26th) and for me, it's just getting a little tired.
I know by your responses that for some of you, AO constitutes your sole remaining link to the the Amiga, but if anyone has a way to reverse the lack of interest for me, I'd surely love to hear from you.
Wayne
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@Wayne
If you truly feel that way, perhaps it's time to consider handing the shebang over to someone else?
Of course, the place would feel weird without you in charge.
Hmm, there's a catch 22...
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I'm sorry if this wasn't self-apparent, but after 10 years of effort and soul, I will *never* "hand over" the site to anyone. Would you give away a classic car that you built from the ground up just because you bought a new car? There's not a single person in this community that I feel would ever be able to maintain it the way it needs to be (and yes, sometimes that even includes me).
After years of trying to get out of it what I personally put in, the site's no longer for sale either but if someone wants to put together a realistic offer, I *might* entertain it for the next little while. Otherwise, if I end up closing the site some day it'll serve as a well-deserved tombstone to the last 10 years of dedication and effort.
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@Wayne,
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound callous about it. I quite understand your reasoning there.
As a user, however, it would be a tragedy to see the site disbanded, so I had to raise the possibility at least.
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Hey Wayne, I find all this talk of the Amiga Platform being dead totally irrelevant to the whole point of Amiga.org...
Ok, people who think the platform is alive and well and has a chance in beating M$ etc, can go to Aw.net or where ever.
Those of us who actually use Amigas, enjoy Amigas and have fun etc, come here.
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I agree with Wayne that the amiga will never "take over the world" - or whatever notion the kids (on AW) have on this issue. I don't think I EVER believed that.
I had hoped that a competant person or persons would at least run a company with some dignity and respect.
it was not to be.
I will tell you why I'm still involved: Last saturday a bunch of us got together for the monthy QUAG meeting over at Lou's. We saw a Peg running 1.5 (VERY impressive!), we play with AmigaOne's and any new updates that happen to roll in. we play with amiga forever, i brought in my AROS CD but the pc there didn't boot from it. etc., etc.
I have been working on redoing my web site for purchase on a CD and having included quicktimes of some shots I did for DUNE, I have been testing the CD on as many amiga systems as possible. brought it to the meeting and found the new MPlayer for OS4 works great, btw.
but the real reason i go? We Laughted and laughted and laughted.:lol: all day long we are having a freaking party! even when we don't have anything "new" to look at, we play with whatever there is. because it's all about just enjoying it all.
do I think my CD will be a big seller???
of course not. if it sells 10, I'll be happy.
I'm doing it because over the years my IFX articles have helped people and i get a kick out of that.
it doesn't matter if it's one person or one hundred.
i guess because i never had any real hope that amiga would GET BIG, i'm not really disappointed that it hasn't.
I do think that kids coming here and poking toothpicks in Wayne's ankles is really annoying and it would be nice if there was a way to make that stop.
after all, if someone tried that over at Lou's we'd all just throw the kid down the stairs. or something equally effective. :lol:
I would miss some people here. But, as always, I bow to whatever Wayne wants to do because this is HIS place and we are just visiting.
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I apologize if anyone finds my responses insulting or otherwise a bit too "drama queen". On both sides of the coin (both good and bad), nothing has changed in the Amiga community as of late. I'm just feeling a lot of stress lately and every little "hiccup", every twit, every incident is felt a lot harder and more personally than it would have been a few years ago...
Wayne
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Dude, you need to rant, big time, I recommend finding someone that you trust either in real life or from here, and ranting your feelings out until one of the following happens: your fingers bleed, or you start to feel better.
Works for many people, including nutters like me!
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I had people I trusted in real life. Didn't work out well for me.
Also, don't mention fingers bleeding (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14624)... please. Very insensitive to make fun of the gimps, even if they're deserving of the attention.
:)
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Then I recommend talking to someone you trust through the internet, you always said you and Tigger were close, perhaps he would be willing to sit down with you.
Though I would myself offer, I doubt seriously that you trust me even a fraction of the amount you'd need to get this stuff off you're chest, though I offer it regardless.
Sorry about the bleeding fingers crack - I completely forgot about that potato peeling incident ;-)
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Wayne wrote:
I apologize if anyone finds my responses insulting or otherwise a bit too "drama queen".
And there you were saying you didn't need Cecilias group hug :-)
C'mon now ol'buddy, don't be all bashful, now...
*stands with open arms*
:-)
Seriously though, it doesn't hurt to get stuff off your chest.
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You know what happens when you listen to Bagdad Bill (http://www.sawneybean.com/extra/images/baghdadbill.jpg)??
you get a laugh! :lol:
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Wayne wrote:
I had people I trusted in real life. Didn't work out well for me.
Also, don't mention fingers bleeding (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14624)... please. Very insensitive to make fun of the gimps, even if they're deserving of the attention.
:)
You can borrow my sock if you like... I find it very comforting :oops: