Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Alkemyst on February 28, 2003, 09:20:34 AM
-
Posted by bbrv
Good Morning,
Let this be the end of the story for now. As you can see there is absolutely no interest from the Developers of OS4 to work with us. They are not interested in the Pegasos and they have no interest in cooperating with us. The private emails sent to Ben remain unanswered. We have been provided no means to reach Hyperion and they have no office to call on. As far as we are concerned, they have rejected our assistance again. Please no longer accuse Genesi of being insincere about working with those developing OS4. We have tried to do so.
OS4, if it is ever finished and delivered to the market with a dongle, will be hacked. We are not encouraging this. It is simply a fact. The dongle strategy is based on ignorance. To the contrary, we have suggested a proper legal approach. Today, here, everyone has testimony to the result of this effort. This is not a publicity stunt. These are facts. Read the thread again in case you missed something. Eventually, possibly the only thing that will save the OS4 development will be to make it open source. Think about it.
We know where you were employed Ben -- now everyone else does too. Our lawyers in Paris confirmed this just after you visited us in Paris last year. In English and in American convention, you are a legal clerk. You can call it whatever you want. What does your business card say? You are not a lawyer as you style yourself to be. Do not mistake us, your job is important and as we have told you privately in our last email exchanges in March and April 2002 and publicly, you are an intelligent young man. We hope your current work goes well. The world needs a way to solve big problems in a moral and legal way and you are part of that. Thanks!
As for my education, you can read about it here: www.usma.edu. I was learning how to program with batch cards and Fortran when you were in kindergarten. My Engineering degree and my certification as a practicing engineer makes my education satisfactory by most standards. While there, I spent one summer on a Crossroads Africa Program teaching Physics to high school students and helping to build a school in northwestern Kenya. Another summer I spent learning how to jump out of airplanes, serving in the 82d Airborne Division and participating in an exchange program with Eloy Alfaro, the Military Academy of Ecuador. During the academic year after class, I played American Football, rugby, soccer, team handball, boxed, learned to scuba dive, etc. Certainly, if you want to discuss other things we can. Why don't we start with Aristotle's summary of moral virtues. Concerning ambition where would you sit between the extremes of the vice of deficiency and the vice of excess?
About my military background...I actually resigned my commission as a Major (Commandant for the French). That is one grade above Captain. Here is something I posted recently to GameTeam@phinixi.com just to make sure you understand my mentality...
-----------
On this list we really have people from all over the world. This is very important to us. The world is a great place, but it needs a little help. Our games should have this in mind. We want thoughtful skill oriented games that require online cooperation with people from "other" places. Maybe, one day we will have a language toggle. Ever seen a United Nations meeting with every Diplomat wearing an earphone so he can hear everything in his native language and speak in his own? Imagine what a little communication and a common purpose might enable...;-) OK, that is the future...
In the meanwhile, we want everything else too -- BUT -- we will definitely want a "gore" switch. Having played a few sports in my life and been a real "Airborne Ranger" I think there is too much illusion in video games. Pain hurts. Heroic effort expended in a seconds requires years of disciplined physical and mental training. The human insensitivities promoted in "death by seconds" is not something that is going to make things better. There are too many kids today walking into schools with guns and using them. Raquel and I do not want to be part of that. Sorry, but as much as we appreciate the effort of guys like James Daniels, Payback needs a new theme. The "good guys" and the "bad guys" need to be switched in our opinion. If you put "junk" into a brain, eventually that is all you get out of it. Games are a good place to start a better trend.
-----------
One last note about this subject for our European friends -- we understand the reluctance to support any kind of military action given Europe's last 200 years. However, as we have said before: as long as there are bad guys that do bad things, there have to be good guys that can do bad things better...;-)
It is really to bad for the OS4 Development that we cannot work together. The DTV STB we are developing is a simple STB that receives digital television signals. You people in the UK know the system. Imagine a Free-to-View SetPal STB with a PPC and MorphOS. It will have the 250MHz 403 (the embedded version of the 603 -- remember the Blizzard?). INEXPENSIVE is the driver in the first version. The RAM is still a question of cost, but the games will have at least 16MB for themselves. The controller is one that accepts remote control inputs (so anything that can do that using IR) and the resolutions are standard PAL or quarter PAL (Amiga high rest and low res). We want to be able to have a game running in two thirds of the screen while the TV is still running in the background. That is what we start with. We are not trying to be an PS2 or XBOX here...not yet...;-)
Anyway, that is the end of the Pegasos OS4 effort for now. Perhaps, you have something more to say Ben? Why don't you answer the email? Or, maybe, you should just stick to Quake and continue in your fantasies of real life.
As for anyone else that is interested in being involved in the efforts of Genesi, please continue to send us emails. Forgive us if we do not answer you right away. Thank you for your interest and support.
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill (or maybe I should sign Wolf im Schafspelz...;-) )
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1046272707&category=news&number=85
-
And Ben Hermans past has relevance in what way??? And the number of stripes you aquired as a french boyscout would mean what for me???
Ohh yeah I forgot: Ben is solely responsible for aos4 as you are solely responsible for morphos/pegasos.
THEREFORE when you are good (perhaps even excellent) at scuba diving and Ben is not, your product must be the superior. But why should I even care?? Apparently aos is going to be hacked on its day of release anyway (As opposed to morphos which is litteraly unhackable)
-
Alkemyst wrote:
Posted by bbrv
We know where you were employed Ben -- now everyone else does too. Our lawyers in Paris confirmed this just after you visited us in Paris last year. In English and in American convention, you are a legal clerk. You can call it whatever you want. What does your business card say? You are not a lawyer as you style yourself to be. Do not mistake us, your job is important and as we have told you privately in our last email exchanges in March and April 2002 and publicly, you are an intelligent young man. We hope your current work goes well. The world needs a way to solve big problems in a moral and legal way and you are part of that. Thanks!
Erm, why on Earth did bbrv need to provide this info on a public forum? Does this impact in any way upon the talent and skill which Hyperion have brought to OS4? I think not.
-
Now I'm for sure going for the A1/Eyetech and OS4 deal :-D .
-
What in the world is this man rambling on about.
This fellow is totally starting to FREAK me out!
OS4 is not your OS Bill Buck.
And it is not meant to run on your Pegasos.
Why in the world do you think that you should come to the Amiga community with this kind of nutsy crap talking.
This is the wierdest thing I've ever seen.
Let me say this one more time, Bill Buck.
OS4 is being built by Hyperion for the AmigaOne.
Is this what your lawsuit is about?
Because if it is, the judge is gonna laugh you out of the country.
If the Amiga team wants OS4 to run on Pegasos, then fine.
But if they don't want this, then it's none of your freakin' buisness.
Who in the world do you think you are?
The savior of the Amiga?
I hope the Amiga community is finally starting to see your true colors.
I know that MorphOS didn't turn out to be what you had inticipated, but that's no reason to threaten Hyperion and Amiga Inc.
And just because they won't run OS4 on your machine?
WOW!!!
You have totally lost your freakin' mind!
:-o :-? :-x
That's it for you man...
You're outa here!
-
You have totally lost your freakin' mind!
:roflmao: :roflmao:
-
Wow, Buck you're quite amazing! :-o Now you're even providing us AmigaOS4 updates! :-o I am sure "the gang" will happily swallow everything you state with regard to *3rd party* products and defend you to no end! :-o
Welcome to the Twilight Zone.
-
I'd have to agree with the sentiments posted here as well. IMHO, The Posting by BBRV is way OTT. It has gotten personal and that is not good Business practice. :-(
As to BBRV's point about Pirating OS4, Who is going to Hack and Pirate OS4? Who would benefit most from OS4 being hacked and pirated?
The Dongle is a good thing, It means that Hyperion will maximise the amount they get back in profits from sales for all their hard work - something, I am sure, most here do not begrudge them. Yes, I appreciate that some lowlife is going to hack the dongle protection, but it will cut down on the casual pirate.
I don't care whether Ben is a Lawyer or a Legal Clerk, what gets me is the Audacity of BBRV to even go around making enquiries. I have met Bill Buck at WOASE and he was pleasent to me, but obviously the man has many faces.
I have met Ben Harmens and spoken to him on several occasions. With Ben what you see is what you get, a pleasent, genuine guy who tells it to you straight and Loves the Amiga.
Go get 'em Hyperion!
:-)
Mikey C
-
In the same thread were BBRV posted the rant above, he wrote this the day before:
Hi z5, this is not a publicity stunt. Of course people could be interested in both systems! But, seriously this is not a big market. Right now today there MIGHT be 400 to 500 more Pegasos machines sold if the Pegasos had OS4 running on it (if OS4 was ready). The profit on those sales would not even cover the payroll of Genesi for two weeks. Double or even multiply that number by ten if you want. There is NOT a real business here in this market today that can support a stable commercial operation. This is about the future. This is about infusing the Amiga spirit back into the Amiga Community and building something NEW. With a solid base of users and developers we could create something VERY special -- together.
Ben has a day job, but we will send him an email today and ask him officially if you think that will help. Hyperion will most likely own the intellectual property of the classic Amiga OS eventually. Certainly, they will want to sell OS4 to anyone with a PPC platform. The Pegasos Family of products will be their biggest target market.
In my reading it means that he gave Ben A WHOLE DAY to decide if they wanted to port aos to pegasos.
(Ohh I especially like the pegasos will be their biggest marked - bit)
-
This story about me being a law-clerk is becoming quite old.
Buck knows full well I'm a real lawyer (to the extent that this even relevant) and that I act as a legal consultant for small and medium enterprises in Belgium.
I'm glad I took the precaution of protecting my personal information quite a few years ago as it would probably be floating all over ANN by now with fanatic Hyperion haters calling our firm in an attempt to get me sacked.
-
fanatic Hyperion haters calling our firm in an attempt to get me sacked.
OMG :-(
-
Sigh. What this really shows it that BB doesn't get what knowledge and "education" really is. The first step is when you learn is the power of knowledge and the second step is that it really doesnt matter. It is not the notations on the paper that makes you a good scientist/engineer, it is your personal skills and your personality. Clearly, Bill has only learned the first of these steps and it is probably the reason he makes this immature post (immature in scientific sense).
I think this really sad because when MOS was announced I was really excited about it. I understand that it would take a few years to get it ready and I liked the way the MOS team handled the situation: no fuss and no BS on different forums (at least not as much as there is now days). They seemed to be very focused on their task and hardworking (I believe they still are). But the last 12 months thing have changed. There are flame wars everywhere and they focus around one guy: Bill Buck. Lots of promises has been made, and almost all of them has been broken. This destroyed much of the excitement about MOS and Pegasos so my question for Genesi is:
Why are you participating in the flame wars? Why are do you create all this 'noise' everywhere? Is this a welldefined strategy or is it only an attempt to persuade people that don't believe in Genesi?
The reason I ask these question is because I think this 'strategy' only hurts Genesi.
/W
-
You don't have to justify yourself Ben.
It's really not worth it, Genesi and Co. must be desperate to resort to such a low.
Anyhow, why do they want AOS4 on the Pegasos so badly? Isn't MorphOS supposed to be better than Amiga OS4?
Ignore them and they'll eventually get bored and go elsewhere.
Mikey C
-
Damn, that Bill guy has completelly lost it...
-
Alkemyst : where was this first posted ? I guess it was not intended to be the start of a new thread, or a news item.. ? (can't see it on ann, fortunately !)
Sounds really off topic indeed !
-
As we say in Sweden:
Öhh...
:-D
-
After reading on ann.lu :
I can say it was definitely quoted out of context and was not meant to be a news item or forum item either...
Anyway, nothing interesting happening lately... No software release etc... :(
-
by mahen on 2003/2/28 10:59:44
After reading on ann.lu :
I can say it was definitely quoted out of context and was not meant to be a news item or forum item either...
1) I didnt post it in news did i so why complain as if i did.
2) The title contains what is in the post.
3) I gave the link to where it came from so ppl could read the whole thread for them selfs.
4) This is forum to talk about the statement BBRV had just made.
So what item should it of been posted under.
Or do you think this is something that none of us should be disscusing
-
@mahen
I can say it was definitely quoted out of context and was not meant to be a news item or forum item either...
Huh?
AFAICT Mr Buck knows full well what he meant by his statement(s).
Read through the full list of postings carefully. You'll see he makes no bones about someone 'cracking' OS4 to run on the Pegasos (even to the point of prompting a discussion on it here (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1046272707&category=news&number=4) ).
Out of context? No chance. Mr Buck knows damn well of what he speaks. Any why he posted it on an open forum.
-john
-
heh heh you have to laugh really :-D. Thank god I havent become a member of Bill Bucks posse.
@BBRV would you like a bigger shovel? ;-)
-
Ben, don't post unless you have an AOS4 update.
bbrv, don't post unless you have a MorphOS/Pegasos update.
I mean really :roll:
-
Alkemyst, when you post something like this, you know you're just going to stir up trouble. Bill Buck's post was a reply to a series of other people's posts and it really has to be read in that context. (For example, Ben brought up Bill's past and questioned his qualifications to run a company. Knowing that makes a difference in how Bill's post come across, doesn't it.) If people read Bill's words first, then he really does seem like a crazy person and it's no wonder people here are reacting the way they are. But knowing the whole story makes all the difference.
You may have given the link at ann.lu, but most people are going to read his words, form an impression, and then maybe go to ann.lu to read through the long thread to see why he wrote what he did. By then the damage is done, and your mission is accomplished.
Bill Buck shoots from the hip, but as far as I know what he has said is consistent with the facts. You did a very mean-spirited thing here by trying to manipulate people's reactions with this post.
As for Ben's response here, it isn't consistent with what he wrote at ann.lu (if anyone wants to check that out), so the good guys and bad guys in this are not quite as clear as most people here would like to think.
-- gary_c
-
In what way isn't this consistent?
I simply stated that I was not a legal clerk which he clearly meant in a derogatory way.
Incidentally, I find it hard to believe that you would endorse the actions of somebody who is solliciting people to provide him with my mobile phone-number on a public forum and who claims he had people check into my employment background.
Do you consider this normal business practises?
-
@Gary_C
I see you defending BB more and more no matter what.
So i will not waste time giving you reasons.
As you will go on & on anyway.
-
@ gary_c
It is disappointing to see that people like you and Greenboy are opting to play more and more to be the Devil's advocate, or unknowingly are being taken advantage of by Mr. Buck for his own purposes.
I agree though that most of Buck's nonesense should never have made it onto news websites as "news", over and over again. However what Alkemyst has done is posting this "information" onto an *open forum* and even provided a link where a reader could find this message within full context. (IMO, in this case this doesn't change much however)
Please re-direct your criticism towards those who have posted similar Buckshit postings as "news" in the past.
-
Well, I don't know if Bill Buck really said these things, but if he did, he is really out of line.
If I was in charge of bPlan or MorphOS, i'd want to distance myself from someone who posts this sort of crap!
-
HyperionMP wrote:
In what way isn't this consistent?
I reread your post at ann.lu and now see that I was wrong, saying your words were inconsistent. I apologize for my mistake.
My other point, that Bill Buck posted his words in response to your calling him "a former army captains without any academic background" still stands, I believe.
--gary_c
-
Hi,
Flame me if you want but if I can port a game to MOS wich would earn me some money I will. I am not interested in people flaming other people. I am interested in earning money so that I can pay my bills.
Honestly, I am not going to take part in those discussions. I do not know Ben and I do not know Bill. So I cannot say anything about it.
Coder
-
Bottom line...
Bill Buck knows he needs OS4 to succeed in his quest.
He will do anything in his power to make this happen.
This probably says a lot about the direction his buisness is going in.
He sounds very unsure and upset about the way his buisness is turning out.
It also says a lot about Amiga Inc and Hyperion.
Through his desperation, I can almost see what he is thinking.
OS4 is going to be the deciding factor, and he's not going to have it.
If there ever was a chance of him getting OS4 on his machine, that chance no longer exists.
And He knows it.
Good luck Amiga Inc/Hyperion/EyeTech
-
@HyperionMP
Should someone copy those earlier messages from Ann.lu here so that those peole actually saw what you wrote? LIke your total ignorace of Bucks West Point graduation? I think it's education high enough...
I'm not going to waste my time on that.. But I really wish these people would read at least that one thread on Ann.lu before commenting so blindly. :-P
-
I agree though that most of Buck's nonesense should never have made it onto news websites as "news", over and over again. However what Alkemyst has done is posting this "information" onto an *open forum* and even provided a link where a reader could find this message within full context. (In this case, that doesn't change much however)
Mike, no offence, really, but your obsession with labeling things news or putting them in other kinds of categories is getting out of hand. You refuse to see things for what they are, and instead use categories to make them something else.
This post is just as visible for a shorter if not equal or longer time than any news posting. Whether or not one agrees with posting it is irrelevant in my opinion. It spreads just the same. And thus, we can discuss it just the same.
I really doubt people visiting a hobbyist site like Amiga.org give that much difference to news and forums. Perhaps if this were CNN that would be the case, but not now, not really. People view what they see. News are highlighted, but a thread title like this on the top of the page is highlight enough.
People will read it just like they read news. And this being a community, volunteer site where all posts are made by same people that post on the forums, people will treat it mostly the same. I honestly feel in my experience within Amiga community this to be the case. Categories don't matter, content does.
It is on the front page. It was way out of context (I'm not saying I care, I'm just saying it is out of context because, well, duh, it is?). It spreads like any news posting would. It is just like news. You can explain this away with a technicality, but it remains a technicality. (With the possible exception with regard to a small minority of people out side of the community coming to take a peek from time to time.) Posting a link is a technicality too, since people will have already made up their minds. (Now if one were to summarize the entire thread or post JUST the link, this would be different...)
Mind you, I don't disagree with posting it here. By all means, if you want to discuss it and the poster has no objection (that is probably long enough to be covered by most copyright laws), go ahead. I'm just disagreeing with your assesment that these technicalities make a difference. In my opinion, they don't. Just like in that MAI thread a few days back. Sure, technically the report wasn't perfect, but it was still good research and writing it off on the technicality that MAI wasn't asked to comment is just plain ridiciluos. That doesn't invalidate what was said and researched. It only lacks something.
It is the content that matters. Not the technicalities. This is not a court room.
We should really get into discussing the content of the news, not the category it was posted in or other technicalities that allow us to discredit it. That is just petty. I see it on all sides, and I probably participate in it sometimes myself without really realizing it, but people with strong biases are really prone to coming up with these kinds of things against stuff they don't like. That is unfortunate.
We are really threading new depths in this community when so much of discussion is devoted to what is news and what is not. Why not discuss the content instead?
I will do my best to do so, anyway.
-
Alkemyst wrote:
I see you defending BB more and more no matter what.
That isn't true at all. I think a more careful look at what I've written here and there will show that I sometimes chime in when I think there's a good reason to say something. But I'm not going to sacrifice my good sense to defend anyone or anything when there's no grounds for it. I'm not on Genesi's payroll, and I'm involved in Phoenix as a volunteer, so I have nothing to gain by destroying my own credibility in talks like these.
So i will not waste time giving you reasons.
As you will go on & on anyway.
A more likely explanation for you not giving me reasons is that it's hard to explain something like your out-of-context post. I only go on and on when there's still something to be said. In other words, you're copping out by trying to label me instead of responding to my points.
-- gary_c
-
@gary_c
"My other point, that Bill Buck posted his words in response to your calling him "a former army captains without any academic background" still stands, I believe."
I doubt he would have received that comment had he not made that crack about Ben being a law clerk.
-
@Mountain_myst
I have to say you do have original ideas of how this world works and I have to admit they are refreshing to read for a change.
One thing I agree with you .. Ainc/Eyetech/hyperion are going to need all the luck there is. :-D :-D :-D
-
Hello Coder,
Flame me if you want but if I can port a game to MOS wich would earn me some money I will.
Of course Coder, virtually nobody blames anyone for writing Windows software. So, the criticism stated here has nothing to do with what you have stated.
Why do you believe you would be flamed on for this?
-
Madgun wrote:
I doubt he would have received that comment had he not made that crack about Ben being a law clerk.
Sure, Ben was provoked, but he was happy enough to reply on the same low level, showing both ignorance about his "opponent" and the willingness to try to smear. So, uh, who are the good guys and bad guys, again? It's great to see these people participating in the forums, but both Ben and Bill have rather spotty records in terms of appropriateness in what they say. So it comes down to: if he's on "your side," he's proven once again what a bad guy he is; if he's on "my side" he was provoked by that other guy. It's a circus in any case.
-- gary_c
-
@JoannaK
I didn't even have to read your post to know that it would be standing behind Bill Buck.
Could it be that you are the one that is blind?
Because Amiga Inc. didn't give you what you wanted when you were standing behind them.
Would you like to tell the people here the real cituation as to why you are so angry with Amiga Inc?
or will you just let it keep riding on.
Building up anger and hostility in your heart towards anything that Amiga Inc. tries to do.
Come on JoannaK...
Tell everyone the real reason you don't stand behind Amiga Inc.
and this is not meant in a mean way.
-
That isn't true at all. I think a more careful look at what I've written here and there will show that I sometimes chime in when I think there's a good reason to say something. But I'm not going to sacrifice my good sense to defend anyone or anything when there's no grounds for it. I'm not on Genesi's payroll, and I'm involved in Phoenix as a volunteer, so I have nothing to gain by destroying my own credibility in talks like these
Im biased, But so are you even tho you think your not.
Your postings have changed alot i have noticed it clearly.
I did wonder why Now i know why.
The only reason im reply is cos now you admit to being involed with phoenix.
Im in favor od Aone/Aos4 but when i think the ppl involed with the Aone/Aos4 give stupid statements i just shut up. i will not defend them.
Like Aos5 by end of the year unlikely so no comment from me on ppl attacking amiga.inc.
But it dont meen Aos5 will not be out by the end of the year.
-
:-o :-o :-o :-o
:-x :-x :-x :-x
I hereby declare that I will NOT under any circumstance purchase a Pegasos or any other Genesi product as long as Bill Buck is associated with the company.
Buck, you need not list your background in order for me to understand what kind of man you are.
Kay
-
@ jtsiren
News are highlighted, but a thread title like this on the top of the page is highlight enough.
My criticism is/was mostly meant as a way of providing information/feedback to Amiga.org webmasters, to enable them to enhance this website.
Amiga.org has quite a few readers still, however when I compare the quality of moderations, feature articles, news submission, etc to BeNews during its heydays as a volunteer effort as well, the difference in quality ensurance is quite disturbing to me personally.
However, IMO Amiga.org is still in many ways the best website the Amiga community has to offer, and so I do appreciate this website.
-
MikeB wrote:
It is disappointing to see that people like you and Greenboy are opting to play more and more to be the Devil's advocate, or unknowingly are being taken advantage of by Mr. Buck for his own purposes.
Well, being Devil's advocate is sometimes a good thing, and fun, but that's not my motivation in this situation, or greenboy's. And we've both got our eyes open; no one is being taken advantage of unknowingly. The thing is, Genesi offers an opportunity for Phoenix members (a certain interested subset, I should clarify) that Amiga, Inc. just didn't, and doesn't. I don't condone everything Bill Buck does, or maybe the way he does it, but the fact is that he represents a real chance for developers, and his energy and committment to furthering the platform are undeniable. As far as style is concerned, there's an ongoing learning process, too. And how Genesi and Phoenix work together, how things are presented, etc. are evolving, hopefully improving. In any case, things are happening now with Phoenix, and with people who want to get involved, things that went nowhere when Amiga, Inc. was approached for the same purpose.
-- gary_c
-
As i already knew no matter what is said Gary-c will go on & on.
-
@gary_c
I definately agree about it being a circus. Don't they know that there's more to a circus than just clowns? :-o
-
@MikeB
Why do you believe you would be flamed on for this?
In the heat of discussion it could happen. But I see not here. :-)
Coder
-
It is on the front page. It was way out of context (I'm not saying I care, I'm just saying it is out of context because, well, duh, it is?). It spreads like any news posting would.
Yet people thought the 5 page personal rant the other day fully deserved to be on the front page. It all goes back to who you support in the end.
I'm sure those who support Genesi and Bill Buck will want this burried and hid away as soon a possible. Personally, I think it's a funny read. It sounds just as looney as most of Bills other posts, and deserves a place right here on the front page for all to enjoy.
Bill Buck has this determination about "finding out all about people" once he has encountered a conflict with them online. He is one wierd person in my opinion.
-
At this point, I think it'd be better if everyone paid more attention to the products being offered rather than the few folks having dirt-clod fights.
Personally, I'm rather curious of both projects. Heck, if my project-idea was more of a big ticket item, I would have applied for one of those $299 Pegasos boards myself.
-
HyperionMP wrote:
Incidentally, I find it hard to believe that you would endorse the actions of somebody who is solliciting people to provide him with my mobile phone-number on a public forum and who claims he had people check into my employment background.
Do you consider this normal business practises?
gary_c,
would you please answer to this direct question? I'd like to get you point of view on these 'business practices' (probably taught @ WestPoint...)
-
@ Coder
In the heat of discussion it could happen. But I see not here.
If I was a struggling software developer and Bill Gates or Bill Buck presented me a great non-risk deal, I would probably take advantage of such a deal. It's not about that I would like Windows or MorphOS so much, it would be plain and common sense business.
Most Amiga developers do not develop for the Amiga to become wealthy, but for the fun/love for the platform or for the "community". Making some good money would be great as well, but many developers are already happy with just covering the costs.
-
@Madgun68 You are right!
Short report: THE PEGASOS I production about to commence is SOLD OUT!
Alkemyst, you took that post out of context. You know that. The discussion started before that thread.
Ben, you have the "courage" to post here and not there? Obviously, you did not do your homework. We did. That is normal in successful business.
To the morons that posted in the "I love Hyperion" thread and here.... :lol: Get a life!
Sorry, just can't help myself!
:-D
Just Bill
-
bbrv wrote:
To the morons that posted in the "I love Hyperion" thread and here.... :lol: Get a life!
Care to elaborate?
Just Bodie
-
what a jerk
-
bbrv wrote:
To the morons that posted in the "I love Hyperion" thread and here.... :lol: Get a life!
Sorry, just can't help myself!
:-D
Just Bill
Ohhhh, more nice WestPoint-esque "business practice" examples.
-
sgm wrote:
would you please answer to this direct question?
If you read Bill Buck's words directly, you can see that there is nothing wrong with what he did. He wrote: "Hyperion does not have an office. He [Ben] has a 'day job.' Maybe someone could email us a mobile number?" So Bill Buck was asking if anyone had a phone number for Ben that they would email (private communication) to him. Yes, this is normal business practice, and nothing improper. "I want to get in touch with xxx, I don't have a phone number for him. Do you?" There's nothing wrong with that, is there? Bill Buck wasn't asking that Ben Hermans' number be posted publically, or anything like that. Actually he might have just been trying to make the point that Hyperion hadn't contacted Genesi about a Pegasos, and sort of trying to put a twist on that. But nothing improper, no.
-- gary_c
-
@MikeB
If I was a struggling software developer and Bill Gates or Bill Buck presented me a great non-risk deal, I would probably take advantage of such a deal. It's not about that I would like Windows or MorphOS so much, it would be plain and common sense business.
Well, Windows is really not my game. But I get your point. Offcourse it does not mean I do just about anything for money. Offcourse the platform would have to be of interest to me.
Coder
-
To the morons that posted in the "I love Hyperion" thread and here.... Get a life!
[color=0000FF]Bill, why don't you go back under the rock that you slithered
from. We are not interested in your bull Sh*t here![/color]
Loki :-x
-
BBRV wrote:
To the morons that posted in the "I love Hyperion" thread and here.... Get a life!
Sorry, just can't help myself!
That's ok, why don't you get an OS? :-)
Sorry Just can't help myself either!
Signed,
One of the Morons.
-
gary_c,
if someone would ask for *my* mobile phone number, and for *my* other activities, then yes, I would consider this an action against my privacy. If i don't want to give Mr. Joe Smith my cell phone number, then I think this should be respected.
-
Ryu wrote:
what a jerk
Haven't people caught on by now that Bill Buck likes to push buttons when he knows he can get a good reaction? It's not a very attractive game, but everybody getting all huffy and self-righteous just means all the players are here and ready to play their positions. ;-) In the meantime Bill Buck has a product that's selling and the attitude that he gains more from the controversy than he loses from ruffling people's feathers. If you react, you're playing his game; or you can sit it out.
-- gary_c
-
Even Mehdi Ali had more business acumen. :roll: :roll:
-
> To the morons that posted in the "I love Hyperion" thread and here.... :lol: Get a life!
Hey, you're calling me a moron! Guess I must be doing something right...:-D
> Sorry, just can't help myself!
That much I had already figured out myself.
> Just Bill
RV finally came to her senses, eh?
Kay
-
@jtsiren:
I really doubt people visiting a hobbyist site like Amiga.org give that much difference to news and forums.
I can't speak for anyone else but *I* take "news" items much more seriously than forum items. So your assertion is wrong, I'm afraid.
If it's "news", I expect it to be "news", and while I never contributed on targhan's "news" item the other day, I have to say that I also thought it should have been a forum item.
-
bbrv wrote:
To the morons that posted in the "I love Hyperion" thread and here.... :lol: Get a life!
Sorry, just can't help myself!
:-D
Just Bill
Well.. Bill :-(
Even I managed to avoid making that kind of comment to those people cause I though it would be way too impolite and rude. And some people here ask why I have been so quiet last few days? Some things are better left not to said.. and that's one of them.
(edit) ... As a afternote.. It was othervise good posting.. But I'm sure it'll message will drown into this discussion.
-
> Haven't people caught on by now that Bill Buck likes to push buttons when he knows he can get a
> good reaction?
I noticed that quite a while ago. I'm not impressed by it, though. It might be an efficient military tactic, but I don't believe it belongs in PR. At least to me, it makes him seem like a rather unpleasant character.
Kay
-
@gary_c
It's great to see these people participating in the forums, but both Ben and Bill have rather spotty records in terms of appropriateness in what they say.
I agree with you here, 100%. Sometimes I wish they would both just shut up. I know they have a right to slag each other as much as the rest of us but, taking their relative positions into account, it really makes them look petty & unprofessional.
-
Alkemyst wrote:
As i already knew no matter what is said Gary-c will go on & on.
And again Alkemyst will talk about me rather than the points I made. That's OK: silence sometimes says a lot.
-- gary_c
-
Hi gary,
Haven't people caught on by now that Bill Buck likes to push buttons when he knows he can get a good reaction?
Yes. :-) He got me antagonised once but when you talk to him (Hi Bill!:-)) one to one, he comes across as an intelligent, decent bloke.
It's not a very attractive game,
BINGO!! that's the problem I have with it.
In the meantime Bill Buck has a product that's selling and the attitude that he gains more from the controversy than he loses from ruffling people's feathers. If you react, you're playing his game; or you can sit it out.
I see it like that, too. Time will tell if he's right. :-) :-)
-
Someone is spoofing comments on here and ann using the handle "bbrv".
-
Paul_Gadd wrote:
Someone is spoofing comments on here and ann using the handle "bbrv".
On ann.lu, that is very common, but on here?
Care to elaborate or offer some eveidence?
-
And again Alkemyst will talk about me rather than the points I made. That's OK: silence sometimes says a lot.
-- gary_c
I dont respond to the points you make cos they are just excuses for BB & i have no time for such rubbish.
I reply to other ppl again & again but i pointed out clearly that when it comes to you that i will not reply to everything you say cos you have a history of going on & on, defending to the bitter end when tho BB is has clearly over stepped the mark.
Even JonnaK has the guts to say so with BB lastest comment.
But because of your connection to phoenix & thus to genesi you wont.
i will not reply to any more of your comments cos i have better things to do.
I will reply to others whos comments are worthy.
-
Paul_Gadd wrote:
Someone is spoofing comments on here and ann using the handle "bbrv".
IIRC, to post in Amiga.org you need to login. So, if such "someone" exists, (s)he should know bbrv's password.
What about the easier option (i.e. nobody's spoofing bbrv on Amiga.org)?
-
I liked this at the end of bill's posting on ANN.
"P.S. As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out. Of course, you could start discussing this on ...;-) "
If this is not condoning the piracy or at least encouraging the piracy of OS4, I odn't know what is.
I find it strange that everybody involved in the OS4 solution or at least supporting it, don't seem half as interested in having morphOS on the A1. Now I wonder why that is.....................
-
On ann.lu, that is very common, but on here?
Care to elaborate or offer some eveidence?
I find it hard to believe someone would be so stupid to make such comments on here and Ann which would really affect their buisness.
If it is him then i hope nobody supports someone that is acting like that.
-
JJ wrote...
(Quoting BBRV)
"P.S. As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out. Of course, you could start discussing this on ... "
If this is not condoning the piracy or at least encouraging the piracy of OS4, I don't know what is.
My point exactly, Genesi want to get OS4 for the Pegasos throughg fair means or foul. They are not going to get it through Fair means......
I`m really quite disgusted at that comment. :-(
-
Well Mr.Buck you may have been a well ranked officer and done a little charity work but that still doesn't alter the fact that you're a low life, petty man who is quite ignorant to the fact that his current behaviour is winning him no friends - only causing him too lose allies.
Great military tactic m8, I bet you were a real genious on the field.
As I've said before you are dick.
I hoped you'd prove me wrong but you seem to have sunk even lower than normal.
Incidentally the 2 lawyers I know started out as a legal clerks.
CnlPepper - Now sure he will never deal with your company. Period.
-
>Who is going to Hack and Pirate OS4?
probably the mos coders :)
i cant imagine amiga/os4 users cracking their
own os...
-
@Mikey_C and other blind followers.
I'd have to agree with the sentiments posted here as well. IMHO, The Posting by BBRV is way OTT. It has gotten personal and that is not good Business practice.
And the post from Ben Hermans he was answering to was not personal and was good business practice ?
It is a mazing to see how blind followers can criticize one side when their side is doing exactely the same thing.
-
@BBRV
We our morons now cause alot of us believe the path of OS4 and the work Hyperion has done for Amiga is what we choose?
Sorry but your way out of line here, don't go and label people just because they don't believe in your product.
Now go take your comments like this elsewhere, you do have forums/site that our based upon your product, now go use em.
And take that shovel out of your hand while your at it.
:roll:
-
Alkemyst wrote:
I dont respond to the points you make cos they are just excuses for BB & i have no time for such rubbish.
I think you're sore because I accused you of trying to stir up trouble by posting Bill Buck's comments here. It has nothing to do with the merits of my specific points, which you haven't talked about.
Even JonnaK has the guts to say so with BB lastest comment.
JoannaK does speak her mind, to her credit. I've also made it clear I don't agree with every what and how of Bill Buck's posts here (look back up the thread again if you don't believe me), but that doesn't blind me to what he's doing with Genesi, etc.
But because of your connection to phoenix & thus to genesi you wont.
I won't? Sorry to disappoint you, but I've got my own opinions. An organization of yes men is pretty worthless, which everyone involved there realizes.
I will reply to others whos comments are worthy.
As you please. A lot of people here are making good comments that deserve a reply. I'm afraid I may respond to your posts regardless, but I'll understand if you can't or don't want to follow up.
-- gary_c
-
catohagen wrote:
probably the mos coders :)
i cant imagine amiga/os4 users cracking their
own os...
Of course not. The Amiga platform has always been totally free of piracy. Everyone knows that. ;-)
You guys are missing the point. Bill Buck isn't trying to encourage cracking AmigaOS's dongle. He's just stating what a lot of people have been saying for months now, and something that's probably true: sooner or later, and probably sooner, AmigaOS will be running on the Pegasos MB, via some aftermarket tinkering. His point is, since this may well happen anyway, why not beat the pirates to it by offering a shrinkwrapped/downloadable AOS4 for Pegasos? Then Hyperion and Amiga, Inc. could profit from increased sales. He's made the offer, but no response from Hyperion.
-- gary_c
-
@bbrv
A couple of things....
1) I think you misunderstand the role of a clerk... a clerk advises magistrates on points of law and therefore in court is more important than either the defence or prosecution lawyers.
2) You're a prick
Best Regards
sKy
-
@ Alkemyst
Firstly, for completeness, you should prabably have
included a few of the earlier posts in the ANN thread, to
give the whole, objective picture. It's not changing the
incfentive of the post one bit, but still one should always
do that if nothing else, to avoid being accused of quoting
out of context.
@ all
So here we go again.
My take on the situation:
Bill is working while the iron is hot. New updates and
constant postings make sure the user-base (i.e. us) feel
that stuff is always happening in the world of Genesi. This
is a good thing PR-wise, especially when getting so much
free help - their frenzy of activity contrasts beautifully
against the moody PR-silence of the Triarchy. And for the
news-starved Amiga community, the loud voice of Genesi
is a welcome one, if only for giving us something to talk
about and to disagree with.
The Triarchy, on the other hand (these days mainly
represented by Hyperion) are playing another game. They
make comment in forums, just like Genesi (in this I
consider the voice of Bill Buck being the one of Genesi),
but as opposed to Genesi, they almost only respond
to questions/allegations/accusations. The actual
PR-postings from Hyperion are few and far apart, and
then mostly technical in nature.
The reason for this difference is of course that Hyperion is
the actual developer of the OS. It's reasonable to assume
they have less time to think about PR-stunts, in the same
way as you don't see key MOS-developers posting all that
frequently. Bill Buck/Genesi on the other hand has
promotion as their main profession. It's thus a little unfair
to compare PR-strategies between Genesi and Hyperion.
Rather one should compare between AmigaInc and
Genesi. Not that the end result would differ - currently
Genesi wins on walk-over...
After having gone through this long chain of thought, and
concluded (unsurprisinly) that Genesi beats the Triarchy
in the PR-department, it puzzles me to see threads like
this - seeing Bill throwing away the PR advantage he has
worked so hard to gain. But first: Having read through all
the different comments, I take it the status is currently
that:
- Bill wants AOS4 on the Pegasos. Fair enough. No doubt
that will sell quite a lot more Pegasos'es.
- He do not want the AOS4 dongle. Infact he encourages
"clever boys and gals" to find a solution to this problem,
since Genesi won't do themelves. Now in all fairness, this
could be a call for enduring third-party entrepeneurs to
licence AOS4 from Hyperion. But, when adressing Ben
Hermans trying to have AOS4 on the Pegasos "legally"
instead, Bill leaves too much room for intrepetation for my
taste, which also Hans-Jörg Frieden noted in a later post.
This is subtle (and in the reposted item here, Bill says they
do not condone hacking), but the sentiment is still there
and it sounds very bad indeed.
- I do not know anything about Ben Hermans or of Mr. Bill
Bucks' personal lives. And I don't really care. I don't know
if Ben is a legal clerc or a lawyer, but it's clear he took
offence when Bill referred to him as the former. Why Bill,
already having the high PR-ground against Hyperion (as
outlined above), would make this an issue is beyond me. It
can only be considered a PR-blunder. The same can be
said about every time he comments on the AOS4
development progress - why trying cheap shots when you
already have the PR-advantage? It only makes an
impression that you are getting desperate and everything
is not as it seems - let's hope not, for all the wide-eyed
MOS fans out there.
Now, even sadder is of course that Ben, being handed this
wide open gap in the Genesi PR-armour, fails to grab that
opportunity to gain the high ground. Instead he replies in
kind, with some more personal assumptions that he knows
will be taken as a personal insult by Bill. That's not a good
strategy, but following the earlier line of though, not so
surprising for the PR underdog.
Far more surprising is that Bill continues down this
PR-nighmare he himself started so innocently by digging
into Bens credentials and adding further insults. Once
again freely giving up the high ground he has worked so
hard to achieve in the last few months. If Ben just
responds politely, Genesi has just lost several PR-
points for no reason whatsover.
Incomprehensible.
.
SlimJim
-
Slim Jim.
A well reasoned out and very articulated post if I may say.
I would also add that I agree with nearly all of the points you make apart from the OS4 hacking business. To me it comes across as if people are being encorouged to break the dongle protection in order for OS4 to run on the Pegasos.
If that remark had been posted by anyone else, fair enough, but when it comes from the main rival to OS4......
-
> He's made the offer, but no response from
> Hyperion.
lets see...
Eyetech found a hardware solution, Eyetech have a licence(?) for running AmigaOS on their hardware.
Hyperion have a licence to port/enhance AmigaOS
to powerpc.
If AmigaOS is ever going to run on other hardware
you gotta pay for the licence to do so ? right ?
Why does Buck skip the licence part, and start
bugging Hyperion with questions, when its Amiga Inc. he needs to speak to ?
And I would assume Bill Buck know this ? the licence part ?
So why does he do these public postings ?
Maybe its because the majority of the community
really would like pegasos hardware and AmigaOS
as operating system, as many times reflected in polls around different amiga sites, and with
airing the 'cracking the OS4 dongle' idea, he maybe hopes those 'pegasos/amigaos' people jumps into the mos community....just a hunch :)
-
Off-topic:
To Whom It May Concern
I just wanted to let you know that there are propably a lot of people like me, who stay in the background and just enjoy the jolly good fights in the Amiga-scene.
I sincerely believe that I speak on behalf of many lurkers when I make this wish: please keep up with the personal insults, mud throwing and shouting, I LOVE IT! It doesn't get us anywhere, but it sure is fun to follow!! This thread, for example, is fun, but it could be so much better :-D One hint: before posting, never think if you would say the same things face to face in front of this person, just press the Submit button, Fire & Forget!! I'm waiting on the other side for your unfiltered flow of thoughts. :-D :-D
Before anyone else says it, I will: I'm not better than any other here, maybe worse; I just prefer belonging to the audience, for now. Hmm, and by sending this message I just changed the side..
Well, have to crawl back to the bushes now,
Thanks!
:-)
-
I'm actually somewhat offended that this lunatic is associating himself with West Point. You don't learn business practices in WP, what relevence does military training have? He learned how to be an engineer and program Fortran on punch cards, so what? That only shows that his formal training way back when is completely out of date when compared to current programming practices. He even has the audacity to imply that he was an Army Ranger--no mention of Georgia? And resigned his commission instead of retired? The hell? Why phrase it like that?
My father also graduated from West Point and also was trained on punch cards. The difference is that he kept up with the discipline and teaches at DAU ( http://www.dau.mil ) now as a retired LTC.
His entire "background" spcheal was nothing more than a bit of age elitism, it appears. West Point generally tries to instill honor and integrity. Bill Buck apparently didn't pay attention to those values either through the school or his time in the military as shown by his indirect encouragement of piracy and all this stupid public mudslinging.
Ok, so Ben might not be a perfect angel, either, but Bill's association of himself with West Point is like spitting in the eyes of all the decent men and women in the armed forces. It's insulting. Bill Buck tries to make himself seem like some type of Renaissance Man and intellectual but Christ, he destroys that everytime he writes like a non-native English speaker. I know Scandanavians/Europeans who aren't even in university/college yet who write better than that.
And this is supposed to be representative of a West Point graduate? For those who keep making the snide, "well, it must be a military tactic, eh Bill?" please keep in mind that he's not representitive of what 1) most US Army officers should be and 2) what most US Army officers ARE.
I'm not even in the military (though my brother, father, his two sisters and one of their husbands, one of my mother's sisters, and both grandfathers are/were) and I'm taking offense. It pains me to think that someone like my father would be lumped into the same group as someone like Bill Buck.
I just want to say to those who think he is in some shape or form a representitive of US military officer integrity/honor/ethics--he's not. He's a disgrace. I'm glad he was decomissioned (oh, sorry, he "resigned his commission" before sticking with things long enough to retire, I guess) as his presence in the US Army would only drag them down.
-
Mikey_C wrote:
Slim Jim.
A well reasoned out and very articulated post if I may say.
Well, thankyou!
I would also add that I agree with nearly all of the points you make apart from the OS4 hacking business. To me it comes across as if people are being encorouged to break the dongle protection in order for OS4 to run on the Pegasos.
If that remark had been posted by anyone else, fair enough, but when it comes from the main rival to OS4......
But the fact is it can be interpreted both ways, and it
would be unfair not to consider both (most people tend
just to choose either interpretation and stick ferviously to
that - never a wise course of action). But I think we can all agree that
it sounds very bad, no matter what was Mr. Bucks
real intention.
.
SlimJim
-
For the record, I have no vested interest in favoring Bill Buck over Ben whatever-his-name-is. All I've seen from Bill Buck has been insane ramblings and outlandish accusations. I'm primarily a PC user who has never owned an Amiga in my life. I hang around here to see about possibly getting an Amiga when I have some spare cash.
As a result, I somewhat follow the A1/AOS4 and Pegasos/MOS debates just to see if there's anything solid to go on instead of fluff and flamewars.
I haven't said anything either pro or con about either of these personalities before but after Bill Buck's statements lauding his past, I could not help myself.
Considering the past that he lauded and the airs he's put on, I find him a disgrace. He's shown remarkably little tact and certainly no honor or integrity in his stupid little public jabs. It's a disgrace that he chooses to make sure everyone knows his past, in detail, as if it somehow makes him a better person. It's a disgrace that he's saying, "look, I'm the product of a West Point education!" (more or less)
I know what Amiga hardware/software solution I will NOT be pursuing in the future. Yes, maybe the Pegasos/MOS solution will be faster or more stable or have more features, but I cannot support someone of such questionable character. Maybe Ben hides his pettiness better, I don't know. I don't care. Why? Because Bill Buck relishes the attention he gets. Maybe he's going with the "any publicity is good publicity" theory but all he's done, with me at least, is tarnish the integrity and reputation of the products he is associated with.
It's like that company, Elbox? that put that crap in their drivers that disabled your hard drive or some such. Maybe their products are great besides that little incident, but that's a breach of trust that many people won't soon forget. For this case, it's one small part of Pegasos/MOS that's souring me to the whole thing.
I suppose other people enjoy seeing his antics. Hey, more power to ya. I, for one, don't--especially coming from a "West Point graduate".
-
- double post -
-
I've said this before, and I'll say it again.
These forums are not the place you want mud-slinging between companies. It gets the market nowhere, and fast.
The business between companies should be conducted in a private way, just between them. When they have come to an arrangement/disagreement they should give reasonable reasons why. Preferrably in joint statements.
If that ever happens (which I severely doubt after reading this thread) We will be able to stick together and appreciate the differences between the products on offer. This way all alternatives are given a fair chance.
This community is already shrinking because of the past. If things continue the way they are, no-one's going to get out alive. The companies are burying each other - this isn't helping anyone.
What we need is friendly competition, not all this sh*t.
Differences between the people at the different companies should not be brought out in the public eye. There's no place for them here.
This is a difficult time for all of us here (and has been for quite sometime), but things are looking up just now, with the different choices of next-gen hard/software coming along. If we can all put the differences aside, we can get through this, and then we will ALL be in a healthier place.
As I said in a previous post to BBRV (and this applies to ALL companies):
Making enquiries about the people here (ie what they would like to see in future products) is generally ok with me, but not the blatant advertising/mud throwing that is going on. Ask Wayne for proper advertising places. Post your news in the proper places. Keep personal opinions to yourself.
Here's hoping for a better future for ALL of us.
Even if I'm not a fan of certain products, if it's in the best interest for Amiga, then I'll pay attention to it, support it and make sure other (relevant) people know about it aswell. And I hope that other people here will do the same.
As an afterthought, I'm not proof-reading this, so it may come out wrong. This is not a personal attack on anyone I've mentioned. Sorry for the mistakes in the order/grammar of this, but it's straight from the heart (man that sounds corny).
-
PasiM
Well said. And you know what?
It's even more fun to think about what could have been accomplished during theese post-Amiga Tech. days if Bplan-Eyetech-Escena-Hyperion-Genesi-Amiga Inc. and all the others I forgot to mention had worked together since day 1.
It's the amiga users who get screwed here, not Amiga Inc not Hyperion not Genesi.
Dan Andersson
-
It's the amiga users who get screwed here, not Amiga Inc not Hyperion not Genesi.
You know, as someone who's outside of the Amiga community and only looks in from time to time, that's the main conclusion I've come to as well. It sucks. I mean, I read the Amiga history on the website that has it all listed and whatnot and I get kind of bummed out. That y'all have made it this far is amazing, truth be told.
I do honestly hope things look up in the future.
-
This topic is being closed by request.