Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: cartmanau on February 21, 2005, 09:46:03 PM
-
I just put the 40 Mb (Seagate ST9051A) out of my dead A1200 in my A600. I loaded the computer using Install 2.1 and was surprised to not see the icons for the drive on workbench.
I opened HDTool, deleted the partitions, created new ones, saved to disk and restarted. Still no Hard disk.
I loaded HDTool and exited. The hard disk icons appeared on the desktop. I fomatted them and installed Workbench (or so I thought). At the end I pulled out the floppy - and restarted. It did nothing.
I then turned it off and back on, holding down both mouse buttons (for the boot menu). No sign of DH0 or DH1 there. I then pulled the HD out, put it in my other A1200 and partitioned it. Put it back in the A600, nothing.
I also borrowed a mate's WB 2.05, removed the RDB and partitioned and formatted. Still no go in the A600. It can see it after HDTool has touched it but it just will not auto mount :pissed:
The HDD will boot the A1200 but not the A600. WTF am I doing wrong?
-
I'm a little bit rusty at WB2.05 installs, but are you sure you have a filesystem that the 2.05 ROMs can understand installed on the drive? If you install it on an A1200 you'll get the 3.0 version of FFs installed, and it won't boot on the 600... Make absolutely sure you've got hte 2.05 version of FFS in L: on your boot floppy before you install it with HDToolbox...
Failing that (and I don't want to insult your intelligence here), but you did check the automount option in HDToolbox? It may or may not be stored differently between the WB2 and WB3 versions of HDToolbox, so checking it on the 1200 might not necessarily mean it'll automount under WB2...
-
What kind of ide controller have you got in the 600 and what ide software (scsi emulation modes etc ) and i dont think 2.1 supports 4Gb-> drives ..try wb 3.1 witch will need 3.1 rom (this dont count for 1200 witch can run 3.1 from 3.0 roms) if you dont have 3.1 rom in the 600 i think u have a problem whith large disks..
adonay :-)
-
adonay wrote:
What kind of ide controller have you got in the 600 and what ide software (scsi emulation modes etc ) and i dont think 2.1 supports 4Gb-> drives ..try wb 3.1 witch will need 3.1 rom (this dont count for 1200 witch can run 3.1 from 3.0 roms) if you dont have 3.1 rom in the 600 i think u have a problem whith large disks..
adonay :-)
Sorry to be an ass, But if you re-read his post, He said he has a 40mb drive. Which i think is within the boundaries of the 4 gig barrier, But only just. :-D
Trooper
-
@Daedalus
I'm a little bit rusty at WB2.05 installs, but are you sure you have a filesystem that the 2.05 ROMs can understand installed on the drive? If you install it on an A1200 you'll get the 3.0 version of FFs installed, and it won't boot on the 600...
Actually, the only incompatible new feature in 3.0/3.1 is DirectoryCache (DC). Using 37.300 ROM FFS should be fine, assuming no DC is used.
Also to my knowlege all amiga fastfilesystems provided on disk (at least upto 3.0/3.1) are compiled for 68000 and KS V37++, except for one bug in the code: If requester would pop up, the filesystem crash on 2.x (iirc aminet has a patch for this particular bug).
Failing that (and I don't want to insult your intelligence here), but you did check the automount option in HDToolbox? It may or may not be stored differently between the WB2 and WB3 versions of HDToolbox
It's not. The automount has always been stored in the PART RDB block the same way.
@adonay
What kind of ide controller have you got in the 600
A600 has the built-in IDE controller, similar to A1200 one. It's quite likely he uses it.
and what ide software (scsi emulation modes etc )
It's the scsi.device in Kickstart ROM. SCSI emulations are irrelevant here, as the disk is only 40MB.
and i dont think 2.1 supports 4Gb-> drives
40MB < 4GB.
..try wb 3.1 witch will need 3.1 rom (this dont count for 1200 witch can run 3.1 from 3.0 roms) if you dont have 3.1 rom in the 600 i think u have a problem whith large disks..
2.05 (37.300) scsi.device indeed had some issues with large HDDs, however it should be fine upto 40MB.
It could be that KS 37.350 would still fix the problem (as it has some scsi.device fixes)... or maybe not. From this info it's pretty hard to speculate what the problem really is. :-\
Kickstart 2.0x / Workbench 2.05 info (http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_205.html)
-
@Piru
Actually, the only incompatible new feature in 3.0/3.1 is DirectoryCache (DC). Using 37.300 ROM FFS should be fine, assuming no DC is used.
Wasn't even thinking on levels of Directory Cache since I've never used it on a HD, but what I mean is that if the drive was prepped with the 3.0 version of FFS that was on the 1200, but the filesystem wasn't actually installed in the RDB then the filesystem in 2.05 wouldn't recognise it. I've had problems along that line before, and my A600 has 37.350 ROMs. Choosing to update the version of FFS in HDToolbox should rectify this problem if that's the case, assuming he has the file system available on disk at all...
It's not. The automount has always been stored in the PART RDB block the same way.
Good to know, thanks :-)
I know I have a different version of the ROM in mine, but I had no problem installing and formatting a 1.4GB HD in my 600 using the WB2.05 floppies and RDBPrep (I think)...
-
@Daedalus
but what I mean is that if the drive was prepped with the 3.0 version of FFS that was on the 1200, but the filesystem wasn't actually installed in the RDB then the filesystem in 2.05 wouldn't recognise it.
IMO this shouldn't happen, KS 2.x ROM FFS should read the filesystem just fine. At least that is my experience.
However, putting the latest FFS (for the particular OS) to the HDD's RDB can't hurt...
-
Daedalus wrote:
I'm a little bit rusty at WB2.05 installs, but are you sure you have a filesystem that the 2.05 ROMs can understand installed on the drive? If you install it on an A1200 you'll get the 3.0 version of FFs installed, and it won't boot on the 600... Make absolutely sure you've got hte 2.05 version of FFS in L: on your boot floppy before you install it with HDToolbox...
I am using the disks on the A600 to set it up (2.05 and 2.1).
Failing that (and I don't want to insult your intelligence here), but you did check the automount option in HDToolbox? It may or may not be stored differently between the WB2 and WB3 versions of HDToolbox, so checking it on the 1200 might not necessarily mean it'll automount under WB2...
I have done this in the HDToolBox on WB2.
-
adonay wrote:
What kind of ide controller have you got in the 600 and what ide software (scsi emulation modes etc ) and i dont think 2.1 supports 4Gb-> drives ..try wb 3.1 witch will need 3.1 rom (this dont count for 1200 witch can run 3.1 from 3.0 roms) if you dont have 3.1 rom in the 600 i think u have a problem whith large disks..
adonay :-)
Standard A600 IDE, 40 MB drive.
-
IMO this shouldn't happen, KS 2.x ROM FFS should read the filesystem just fine. At least that is my experience.
However, putting the latest FFS (for the particular OS) to the HDD's RDB can't hurt...
How does one do that?
-
Did that A600 ever work with any HDD?
I'd try PFS and different versions of HDToolbox(other programs). Maybe somethings wrong with its KS.. :inquisitive:
-
Type 'info' in the shell, and see if it appears there...
-
Also be sure to check by rebooting with both mouse buttons down that the partitions are visible in the early startup menu..
If not, then it can't be an automount bug either.
I remember having the same kind of problems with a 3.0 A4000 at some point in time, but I think those were solved by
- installing the correct filesystem in the RDB
- checking that the dostype of the partitions correspond to a findable filesystem
I was running PFS3 on the drive and it so happened that I had it in the RDB of my first drive, but not the second drive.. -> remove first drive, second one mysteriously broke
So also look to see that the dostype isn't plain vanilla FFS.
-
orange wrote:
Did that A600 ever work with any HDD?
I'd try PFS and different versions of HDToolbox(other programs). Maybe somethings wrong with its KS.. :inquisitive:
Never had a HDD the whole time I have had it, so I wouldnt know.
What is PFS? I have tried HDToolbox 1.3, 2.05, 2.1 and 3.1. 1.3 wont detect it, the rest do. I have tried a paritioner from Aminet (HDInst or something like that) as well as the 2.05 HDInstall script.
Frankly I am at a loss as to why it doesnt work.
-
whabang wrote:
Type 'info' in the shell, and see if it appears there...
Only after it appears on the desktop.
-
Jope wrote:
Also be sure to check by rebooting with both mouse buttons down that the partitions are visible in the early startup menu..
Done that. Doesnt appear :(
- installing the correct filesystem in the RDB
Is this done in HDToolBox?
-
Hi there.
Here's my 2c worth. Just read this thread and it looks a little different from my less WB savvy perspective.
To me it looks like an electronic fault in the controller/cable. Simplest level, drive doesn't seem to be receiving a signal from the write pin..pin 23 i think. It's probably more complex, like a lightly fried chip, but it's worth checking components associated with R/W operations.
I'm unfamiliar with the internal workings of the amiga disk wrangling utilities, but usually fdisk style utils read the disk contents, work on the RAM copy and then when you are done, splat it to the drive. I'm not sure whether it checks.
Oh, is there corrupt data afterwards or no change?
There are also many other possibilities including databits or addressbits going missing. anyone ever had a disk write garbage, or just become a bit bucket for writes.
Theres all sorts of weird and wonderful combinations for problems.
So just eyeball it. Look for problems, especially corrosion in the connectors. Oh and any unusual heat dissipation.
-
cartmanau wrote:
- installing the correct filesystem in the RDB
Is this done in HDToolBox?
Yes..
And I said it a bit unclearly before:
Set your dostypes to normal FFS (DOS/1 or 0x444f5301) .. my sentence was a bit backwards.
-
Question No.1 : is this a 2.5" or 3.5" disk ? And if it is the later, are your sure power is o.k. ?
The form-factor may seem to be irrelavant, it also gives a hint on the age of the drive.
Lots of drives from the early 90's had a lousy implementation of the "read layout from disk" feature as x86s of these days didn't use them. 3.5s are more likely to have these probs.
Back in the days I tried a 170MB Connor in my A1200 (3.0), which would work just fine for 5-10 boots, but would then come back as a predifened type with 20MB... ONLY way to fix that was to fdisk it on a PC :-o Had to go back to the 60mb 2.5" :-x :-x
It sounds quite possible that 2.x has even more probs with interpreting such garbled layout-info than 3.1-ROMs.
-
@kronos
Why on earth were you using a connor? They are terrible!! I've got a few 'working' ones, which have major compatibility issues with everything, including using anything else on the same controller, use as a slave, autoconfiguration on IBM compatibles etc.
Anyway, I guess circumstance couldn't be helped.
-
Cos my brother allready had a 340MB Seagate (which later ended in my A2000, but must have been sold to someone sometime later) when I sold him the 386-POS that the Connor came from ?
Cos the big problems with Connors only surfaced a year later ? Just like the Deathstar-fiasko surfaced after IBM had been the brand-of-choice for several years ?
Oh, and the 60MB that came with the A1200 was also a Connor ....
-
LOL :lol: sorry miss understod thx for the note .bahh i feel ashamed :-D
a 40 !!!MB!!! get it sorry all for miss posting
:lol:-> adonay <- :lol: all laugh :lol:
-
Generale wrote:
Hi there.
Here's my 2c worth. Just read this thread and it looks a little different from my less WB savvy perspective.
To me it looks like an electronic fault in the controller/cable. Simplest level, drive doesn't seem to be receiving a signal from the write pin..pin 23 i think. It's probably more complex, like a lightly fried chip, but it's worth checking components associated with R/W operations.
A less savvy perspective is always refreshing. I have only decided to revisit the world of the A600 after years of trouble free A1200 use. I have never had an Amiga as troublesome as this A600.
It is definantly reading and writing to the HDD, when I put it in the A1200 it is perfect. Just wont auto boot on the A600 (nor automount).
Oh, is there corrupt data afterwards or no change?
Data is perfect.
-
Jope wrote:
Yes..
And I said it a bit unclearly before:
Set your dostypes to normal FFS (DOS/1 or 0x444f5301) .. my sentence was a bit backwards.
I have tried it as a custom with 0x44f5301 as the type. On the next boot it appears in the boot menu, but after that it is gone again.
@Kronos
It is a 2.5" drive
-
cartmanau wrote:
I have tried it as a custom with 0x44f5301 as the type. On the next boot it appears in the boot menu, but after that it is gone again.
Is that after a warm boot or a cold boot ?
If it`d only doing this on warm boots, and considering it`s an old drive, it might be the reset problem that plagued many Amiga users years ago. Cutting the wire that goes to pin #1 should stop it.
-
Doobrey wrote:
Is that after a warm boot or a cold boot ?
If it`d only doing this on warm boots, and considering it`s an old drive, it might be the reset problem that plagued many Amiga users years ago. Cutting the wire that goes to pin #1 should stop it.
It will only appear in the boot menu after setting it up in HDToolBox with a warm reset.
-
So if I understand correctly the drive isn't detected after a cold boot but is after a warm boot?
Could have something to do with the delay time for detection used by the A600 coupled with a drive that is slow at getting its marbles together.
I've noticed that both aging WD and Connor drives can suffer from horrendously long startup times. The WD in this crudbucket PC doesn't always say 'Here!' before the rollcall is done so to speak, and misses out on being detected, until I do a warm reset. Cold reset doesn't always work for it.
Never had the problem with a Seagate or Maxtor though.
-
@Doobrey
I have a 540mb 2.5" drive from an IBM Thinkpad (DHAA-2540) that just won't work at all with 2.1 of an A600 nor with 3.0 of an A1200. It will appear under HDToolbox and I can get it to set up partitions. But then, upon warm reboot, no familiar icons for the partitions. If I click on the HDSetup program, the icons for the partitions will suddenly appear. I can then format these and install Workbench on the bootable system partition but after warm reboot nothing again. Very frustrating indeed. I've thought about cutting the first wire of the ide cable but never did because the cable cost more ($5.00) than the drive (free).
-
@Argus
Well, if the drive was free you could have just sn(i/a)pped off pin 1 from the drive connector itself.
-
You need kickstart 37.350 to use a hard drive on an Amiga 600! 37.000 wont do. The "A600HD" came with the 37.350 rom......
you've been wasting your time with this I think. sorry. :/
-
Generale wrote:
So if I understand correctly the drive isn't detected after a cold boot but is after a warm boot?
Could have something to do with the delay time for detection used by the A600 coupled with a drive that is slow at getting its marbles together.
It only appears after a warm boot after being played with in HDToolBox, every boot after that it isnt there. Go figure.
-
Argus wrote:
@Doobrey
I have a 540mb 2.5" drive from an IBM Thinkpad (DHAA-2540) that just won't work at all with 2.1 of an A600 nor with 3.0 of an A1200. It will appear under HDToolbox and I can get it to set up partitions. But then, upon warm reboot, no familiar icons for the partitions. If I click on the HDSetup program, the icons for the partitions will suddenly appear. I can then format these and install Workbench on the bootable system partition but after warm reboot nothing again. Very frustrating indeed. I've thought about cutting the first wire of the ide cable but never did because the cable cost more ($5.00) than the drive (free).
This is pretty much the exact same problem as I am having.
I was going to grab a 2.5" drive from work today (just to try a different one) but unfortunately I couldnt find one. Will have to ask the boss to find one for me :-D
@jahc
Actually 37.300 is the first KS to support IDE HDDs in the A600. It is limited to drives of less than 40 MB but the support is there. If there was no support in Kickstart for HDDs then not even HDToolBox could find it as there would be no scsi.device
-
@jahc
You need kickstart 37.350 to use a hard drive on an Amiga 600! 37.000 wont do. The "A600HD" came with the 37.350 rom......
you've been wasting your time with this I think. sorry. :/
Funny how the HDD appears with the HDToolBox then. It must be using some magic IR IDE link there...
Seriously:
37.299 - no IDE or PCMCIA support
37.300 - PCMCIA, HDD upto 40 MB (*)
37.350 - PCMCIA, HDD any size
(*) There are some reports of success of even bigger HDD with 37.300, however. YMMV.
-
Alright, seems the problem is sorted now.
I managed to get my boss to drop me around a nice 200 MB drive last night. Popped that in and it worked fine. THinking then it is obviously a drive problem, I pulled pin 1 off the mobo, most boots the 40MB is there, but if not (when the insert disk screen comes up) I just reset and off it goes.
Thanks for all the help guys :)
-
'mobo' is on HDD, not A600, right?
-
orange wrote:
'mobo' is on HDD, not A600, right?
Mobo - motherboard. I did it dodgy - I just snapped pin 1 off the board of the A600 :P
-
It might have been a better idea to carefully open either end of the 44pin flat cable and peel out the red cable.
But end result is the same in both cases - the reset signal doesn't get to the drive and it is immediately ready for action even after keyboard resets.
IDE drives very seldom hang in a way that they stop responding to commands, so you will probably never miss that reset signal.
-
@Piru
My 37.300 works fine with a 1Gb HD so I dunno about the 40Mb barrier of the 37.300 kickstart, for me it's always been a fairytale ;)
@cartmanau
I've had the exact same scenario with HD's in the A600 and A1200 as you have. The reason is simply that the HD is too slow for the IDE controller and HDToolbox with "pull" the IDE line again. (Pritty sure the kickstart 3.0 holds the IDE line for just a tad longer than the 2.0 and 3.1 holds even longer and that can be why the HD work on your A1200 but not on the A600.)
What I did to correct the problem was simply to cut pin 1 on the IDE cable (the marked one). This will work so the HD doesn't get a resetsignal and thus be ready after a warmreset. This can then be used in a combination with a "reset holding curcuit" that "holds" reset for sec or two... just enough for the HD to spin up and get ready. :)
-
The _RESET signal is pulsed only for a brief moment, but the kickstart versions differ in the amount of time they sit around waiting for the drive.
KS3.1 waits up to 30 sec before it deems that there is no physical drive answering to the unit it's trying to query.