Amiga.org

Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: FluffyMcDeath on February 02, 2005, 06:06:55 AM

Title: This could get very bad.
Post by: FluffyMcDeath on February 02, 2005, 06:06:55 AM
When the tundra melts and the calthrates volatilize!
Quote

We can't afford to have the first sign of a failed energy policy be the mass extinction of life on Earth. We have to act now.


Death by a thousand "burps" (http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2005/02/01/global_warming_methane_could_be_far_worse_than_carbon_dioxide.htm)
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Dandy on February 02, 2005, 09:50:36 AM
Quote

FluffyMcDeath wrote:
When the tundra melts and the calthrates volatilize!
Quote

We can't afford to have the first sign of a failed energy policy be the mass extinction of life on Earth. We have to act now.


Death by a thousand "burps" (http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2005/02/01/global_warming_methane_could_be_far_worse_than_carbon_dioxide.htm)

Scary scenario - really!

But one question arose:
Scientists said that there already have been "heat"-periods on planet Earth, which are said to have been much warmer than the current one.

But how can it be then that they still are afraid of  volatilisation of calthrates - I would expect them to have evaporated during one of the last "heat"-periods, where temperatures have already been much higher than today!

If those calthrates didn't melt in an environment with *MUCH HIGHER* temperatures than we have *TODAY* - what makes them think the calthrates would melt *NOW*???
:-?
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: T_Bone on February 02, 2005, 12:01:48 PM
I think everyone should ignore any and all theories untill such a time as a model can be constructed that can actually be proven to be consistant with the way our planet actually works.

All these silly theories remind me of "here be dragons" labels on old maps, and we're being asked to cripple the economy planetwide in an attempt to "not fall off the sides of our flat planet."
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: blobrana on February 02, 2005, 01:58:53 PM
Hum,
The deep sea water Calthrates were probably layed down during the last ice age...within the time scale of less than 50,000 years…
 These small pockets of gases are formed in low temperature, high pressure, environments.
When the temperature is increased as it has done so, these pockets are disrupted and the methane will rise into the atmosphere, causing increased temperatures which further increase the release of methane.



Btw, I sure that those old sea dog stories of falling off the sea were just political and economic propaganda to stop others from exploiting trade routes…
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Karlos on February 02, 2005, 02:35:20 PM
Methane clathrates are cool. You can actually burn them :-D Interesting watching someone set fire to a chunk of ice ;-)
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: KennyR on February 02, 2005, 07:34:39 PM
Quote
T_Bone wrote:
I think everyone should ignore any and all theories untill such a time as a model can be constructed that can actually be proven to be consistant with the way our planet actually works.

All these silly theories remind me of "here be dragons" labels on old maps, and we're being asked to cripple the economy planetwide in an attempt to "not fall off the sides of our flat planet."


Methane hydrates melting and causing runaway warming is not particularly theoritical. Geologists already believe it partly responsible for the Permian extinction, which killed approximately 90% of life on Earth.
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: on February 02, 2005, 07:41:30 PM
Quote
Methane hydrates melting and causing runaway warming is not particularly theoritical. Geologists already believe it partly responsible for the Permian extinction, which killed approximately 90% of life on Earth.


Wasn't that God's great flood? ;-)
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: T_Bone on February 02, 2005, 08:17:40 PM
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
Methane hydrates melting and causing runaway warming is not particularly theoritical. Geologists already believe it partly responsible for the Permian extinction, which killed approximately 90% of life on Earth.


Wasn't that God's great flood? ;-)


...and why didn't Noah just swat those two %$#%ing mosquitoes?
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: blobrana on February 02, 2005, 08:41:53 PM
Hum,
because he hadn`t evolved past a Estemmenosuchus (http://www.fogato.com/terra/estemm.html)
(A large mammal-like reptile) ?



Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: KennyR on February 02, 2005, 08:45:41 PM
Quote
T_Bone wrote:
...and why didn't Noah just swat those two %$#%ing mosquitoes?


God must have wanted us to suffer for our sins by poisoning ourselves with DDT.
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Karlos on February 02, 2005, 08:47:43 PM
@T_Bone

I think the answer to that is in your sig...
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: T_Bone on February 02, 2005, 09:05:11 PM
Quote

KennyR wrote:
Quote
T_Bone wrote:
I think everyone should ignore any and all theories untill such a time as a model can be constructed that can actually be proven to be consistant with the way our planet actually works.

All these silly theories remind me of "here be dragons" labels on old maps, and we're being asked to cripple the economy planetwide in an attempt to "not fall off the sides of our flat planet."


Methane hydrates melting and causing runaway warming is not particularly theoritical. Geologists already believe it partly responsible for the Permian extinction, which killed approximately 90% of life on Earth.


That's ONE of the theories, and not even one of the most popular. It's "the earth is round, but hollow" being thrown in with the other "here be dragons" theories., yet we'll probably soon be asked to change the way we do everything based on it.
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: FluffyMcDeath on February 03, 2005, 08:10:28 AM
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
I think everyone should ignore any and all theories untill such a time as a model can be constructed that can actually be proven to be consistant with the way our planet actually works.


You were probably one of those kids who didn't have any faith in that silly "those berries could be poisoness" theory. At least, not until they were proven to be deadly to you.

Thing about stuff like that is that you only get to be wrong once. This is one of those things.

If there is something that looks like it could be dangerous ahead, slow down. It's the only prudent approach.

I know it's hard to drive less, have a smaller vehicle, use more efficient lighting, wear a sweater and insulate your home better. These are all terrible hardships (unlike starvation when agriculture fails, because, hey, we'll all just drive to McDonalds and eat there!!).

Gets to the point it's justifiable self defense to kill anyone who refuses to cut their emissions.
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Dandy on February 03, 2005, 08:58:16 AM
Quote

FluffyMcDeath wrote:
...
Gets to the point it's justifiable self defense to kill anyone who refuses to cut their emissions.

Hey- don't let George UU become aware of that - he might end up with suicide!
:evilgrin:
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Karlos on February 03, 2005, 11:01:37 AM
@Dandy

Hmmm, do emissions of BS count?
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Dandy on February 03, 2005, 12:10:46 PM
Quote

Karlos wrote:
@Dandy

Hmmm, do emissions of BS count?

Perhaps - if he turns out to be able to cut them (although I strongly doubt that...)
 :-D
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: T_Bone on February 03, 2005, 01:50:13 PM
Quote

FluffyMcDeath wrote:
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
I think everyone should ignore any and all theories untill such a time as a model can be constructed that can actually be proven to be consistant with the way our planet actually works.


You were probably one of those kids who didn't have any faith in that silly "those berries could be poisoness" theory. At least, not until they were proven to be deadly to you.



You were probably one of those kids who'd trade your family cow for magic beans after hearng someone's story about a really tall beanstalk. ;-)

The berries wern't "guessed" to be poisonous based on a primitive model completely guessed at that we were guessing to be accurate, although there actually were people who believed things similar, such as mixing fibers in the old testament, or

Quote
Thing about stuff like that is that you only get to be wrong once. This is one of those things.


So is the existance of god :-P
(but that hardly makes the bible a work of science)

Quote

If there is something that looks like it could be dangerous ahead, slow down. It's the only prudent approach.

I know it's hard to drive less, have a smaller vehicle, use more efficient lighting, wear a sweater and insulate your home better. These are all terrible hardships (unlike starvation when agriculture fails, because, hey, we'll all just drive to McDonalds and eat there!!).


of course that's not the solution that's usually proposed. Usually it's "everyone" needs to cut emmissions... except these countries because they're poor, oh and these countries for other reasons... oh and... aw hell, lets just cut emmissions in America and leave it at that. :-P
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: T_Bone on February 03, 2005, 01:55:52 PM
Quote

Dandy wrote:
Quote

FluffyMcDeath wrote:
...
Gets to the point it's justifiable self defense to kill anyone who refuses to cut their emissions.

Hey- don't let George UU become aware of that - he might end up with suicide!
:evilgrin:


Emmissions would be cut more by killing all non Americans in self defence. Europe, asia, etc.... (shhh don't tell Bush, he'll get a wild hair up his butt about an environmental crusade!)
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Dandy on February 09, 2005, 07:23:52 AM
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
...
Emmissions would be cut more by killing all non Americans in self defence. Europe, asia, etc.
...

Yes.
But please go back - lets say - 1000 years in time and *THEN* kill all non-americans.

Then today only the only the *TRUE* Americans - the Indians - would live on this planet and it might be a much better place then, if no one had to bother with bushes or so...

(assuming you were referring to US-people with "Americans" - but whats with Canada and South America then?)
Title: Re: This could get very bad.
Post by: Atheist on February 10, 2005, 01:21:11 PM
Hi FluffyMcDeath,


Have you ever seen, anywhere, guesstimate figures of the amount of greenhouse gases that were produced, in the wars against Iraq, in 1992 and 2003? In particular, the 1992 war, where upto, what, 500+ oil wells burned out of control, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for just about one whole year. And no pollution control devices could have been applied, either.

I guess no one wants to talk about that, I'd imagine.

I've never come across any figures, but I haven't looked for any, as well.

Now they went back to take what's left.


Humans aren't fair, they don't share, or care, throws one into despair, we have no future, that's my opinion.