Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: HMetal on January 17, 2005, 11:10:57 PM
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Amiga is happy to announce the long awaited t-shirts have shipped and should be arriving as you read this message.
Garry Hare, CEO of KMOS and Amiga, said, "It's about time, isn't it?"
Prior to shipping Amiga constructed as accurate a mailing list as possible.
Happy New Year.
source: www.amiga.com (http://www.amiga.com/index2.php)
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HMetal wrote:
Amiga is happy to announce the long awaited t-shirts have shipped and should be arriving as you read this message.
Garry Hare, CEO of KMOS and Amiga, said, "It's about time, isn't it?"
Prior to shipping Amiga constructed as accurate a mailing list as possible.
Happy New Year.
source: www.amiga.com (http://www.amiga.com/index2.php)
Cue the "blue trolls" insisting that amiga.com has been hacked, or it's all a big conspiracy/lie that the red trolls have concocted up.
You all know who you are! ;-)
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HMetal wrote:
Amiga is happy to announce the long awaited t-shirts have shipped and should be arriving as you read this message.
Garry Hare, CEO of KMOS and Amiga, said, "It's about time, isn't it?"
Prior to shipping Amiga constructed as accurate a mailing list as possible.
Happy New Year.
source: www.amiga.com (http://www.amiga.com/index2.php)
How long have you guys been waiting?
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It's about time!!!!
Anyone going to post a picture of the shirt, I'd love to see what it looks like.
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This is turning in to a great year, already.
I just got my new AmigaOne uA1-c, my T-shirt turns up and Amiga Inc is saying little and getting things done at last.
Maybe bbrv will shutup and start doing positive things as well!
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There's loads of pics over at amigaworld.
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Hey!! I just got my AMIGA T Shirt!!!
How friggin COOL!
Woops, that was a bit geeky wasn't it.
*silent inside huge woo hoo!!!
p.s. I could make pics I suppose?
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You guys are too much. I wouldn't pat KMOS/Amiga Inc. on the back too vigorously. After all, you did pay $50 for a crappy t-shirt.
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It's nice to see a positive direction from the new leadership. It's a nice gesture and I don't think it needs any more comment (speculation) than that. It's a good start in a positive direction for Gary and Amiga, Inc. I look forward to more. I'd just like to say thanks. (and I don't even get a shirt) :-D
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@ Ray,
Thanks. While not worth taking pictures of, maybe this is the first of many "baby steps" on the way to maturity. Perhaps a bit unfortunately too late with the Mac Mini coming out, but a good gesture nonetheless.
Also unfortunate is the fact that there are those (seen here and elsewhere) who may never shut up, even if you give everyone free AmigaOne systems. Such is life, and it's a hard road that Gary, Bill and crew will have to walk in order to even begin to "break even". Thanks for trying at least.
@ To everyone else,
I'm not excusing anyone here, nor am I taking sides. It took them damned near two years to give out t-shirts. T-shirts for God's sake. All I am saying here is that it should be taken as a sign of good faith that they're even trying.
If t-shirts took two years, BillandFleecyCo had better start pulling miracles out of their butts in rapid fashion, but alas my personal feeling is that the Mac mini will impact any potential market that Amiga Inc (and even Genesi) might have had far more than they can (or should) admit.
Hopefully (and I say this with a grain of salt), the arrival of T-shirts is merely harbinger for the long-awaited AmigaOS 4.x... I just can't seem to get my hopes up any more -- even if it's true -- but we'll see.
In the end, all I'm saying to anyone reading this is that with these shirts (and the recent news regarding Genesi scuttling their involvement with MorphOS) it would seem that we -- as a community -- have an opportunity here to actually help one another rather than the traditional thrashing of swords. A monumental shift as it were. I'm not advocating Amiga Inc, any more than I am advocating the MorphOS team here, I just feel more would come out of working together than continuing to try to sabotage public opinion towards EITHER effort.
Both Amiga Inc and Genesi are guilty of far more ineptitude than could ever be counted, but in my book both companies are pretty much even on every count.
- screwing employees over? check.
- screwing their respective communities over? check.
- being pretty much insolvent? check.
- being run by people whose ethics could be questioned? check.
So, in my book, it's a dead tie. Let's get over ourselves and look at the bigger pictures here.
The recently-orphaned MorphOS team needs our support, and let's give Amiga/KMOS at least SOME credit for sending out shirts. Hell, after two years let's face, they didn't really HAVE to send out shirts. Like someone said, most recipients will probably have long-since forgotten both the Amiga and why they're getting a shirt.
Hopefully some of those who can't remember what the hell the shirt is for will go "oh yeah" and show up here occassionally looking for new news.
Listen... I know this is difficult. I know you guys aren't normally in tune with reason, and I know that most of you will sit and pedantically pick this post apart for your own amusement. But... (in short) for once, let's try to put all this {bleep} behind us -- on both sides -- and see if we can't actually get some good out of it. I for one sorely miss the old Amiga community.
Wayne
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@Wayne
True, I had forgotten about them then today a parcel arrived.
I think it's a really great sign. KMOS promised it would deliver, even though it thought it very un nessasary.
Well done, KMOS, you kept your fist promise, let it be many more! you have restored my faith a little here!!
But it's really not about faith, its knowing you will get a deliverd product that you payed for. It company assurence, support. In a transition like the one AMIGA had being bought out like that, you would expect mayhem on product dates and arrival times. Who knows where the T shirt design was at or if it even had one when KMOS picked up the reigns.
Really well done, it shows serious interest in the products being worked on. It's a very good sign and I think, although a silly inconvenience for you(KMOS), a smart marketing move. there will be many people now saying, hey, KMOS deliver.
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adolescent wrote:
You guys are too much. I wouldn't pat KMOS/Amiga Inc. on the back too vigorously. After all, you did pay $50 for a crappy t-shirt.
The Teee-Shirts???
:-o
Reeeeeaaaally???
:crazy:
I can't believe it!!!
:shocked:
Now I'm really curious, what size they will assign to me - I would need XXXL (and I told them via e-mail, but never got any reply).
I'd nearly bet they'll assign me an "S" sized one - but one has to take this into account if he deals with "centrally planned economy" (everything's on schedule and rockin / it's done when it's done), IIRC...
But independant of that - I always said that it's far more important *and even decisive for me* to get that 50-Euro-rebate-coupon in order to ever buy something "next gen Amiga".
How about that one - is it going to be delivered together with the T-Shirts?
But I'm afraid I'll be left in the rain with this one, as I never heard one of the new owners say a single word on that.
If so, Gary Hare made a bad deal with view on possible customers - then he would have been better off by forgetting about the shirts and just sending the coupons out - this might have been less expensive.
But now it looks like I just get a f****n' T-Shirt for 50 Euros (wich possibly will fit my grandson), am left frauded with regard to the 50-Euro-rebate and Gary Hare lost an potential customer (but maybe he prooves me wrong and sends out the coupons as well)...
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May be a bit off topic, but I can't understand all the hype about the mac mini destroying the "amiga market".. It has been always like if you want to run amigaos, you have to pay more.. Before the mac mini there were enough cheaper alternatives too.. people could have bought an emac, or a cheap 2nd hand mac, or even a 3ghz x86 for less than the amigaone boards.. but the main reason for paying that much for old hardware ist not thats ppc, but that its running amigaos4.. nearly everybody has a pc/mac at home anyway, so they don't buy these boards because they (excluding) desperatly need it for "serious work" anyway..
However, its great that the tshirts are finally beeing sent out.. I feel much less cheated now and hope that mine arrives today..
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rayt wrote:
May be a bit off topic, but I can't understand all the hype about the mac mini destroying the "amiga market".. It has been always like if you want to run amigaos, you have to pay more.. Before the mac mini there were enough cheaper alternatives too.. people could have bought an emac, or a cheap 2nd hand mac, or even a 3ghz x86 for less than the amigaone boards.. but the main reason for paying that much for old hardware ist not thats ppc, but that its running amigaos4.. nearly everybody has a pc/mac at home anyway, so they don't buy these boards because they (excluding) desperatly need it for "serious work" anyway..
I agree with rayt, I don't think the Mini-Mac will have a huge effect on anything Amiga.
I think the reason that the Mini-Mac has caused such debate is for psychological reasons... we have here a £399 computer, without monitor? It's in exactly the same niche that the A1200 was 10 years ago. That was my thought when I read about it, and I thought "damn, they're in our market".
But then I realised it's aimed at the mainstream, it can do anything a mainstream Windows PC can, it's for the average joe.
I think Amiga still has some time before we can aim at this mainstream marketplace. When more modern software is developed then things can start to happen. For now, we're very much in the computing enthusiast market, which is no bad thing of course. But when it does happen, I think we could follow in Apple's footsteps and perhaps become a direct competitor with them. There is certainly space for another mainstream platform alongside Windows and Apple.
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Not that my t-shirt has arrived yet, me being way out in the sticks, but I'm wondering what to change that part of my sig to next... :-)
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@rayt / smithy
Off-topic : The reason for my statement and belief that the Mini Mac is 'a platform killer' is simple.. It's absolutely true that Amiga users will gladly sacrifice their first born and take out third-mortgages on their homes to afford to run AmigaOS. I have no doubt about that. However... There are very few "Amiga users" left who haven't already bought their motherboard, leaving Eyetech without anyone else (except maybe the Linux market) to sell more boards to.
So... to follow the logic trail, that means that companies like Eyetech and bPlan are left with only selling to the markets outside the Amiga community if they want to survive. That means simply stated that the Mac Mini is -- in fact -- their primary competitor, because it's pretty much the exact same specs, it's aimed at the same market that Eyetech/bplan will need to get into, and it's far, far cheaper.
That means that unless Eyetech/bPlan can get the price of their boards down to ~$200/$250 USD, to the point that someone can buy a board then buy memory/HD/and video card for about $499 USD, the "mainstream" (the only people left who would buy AmigaOnes or Pegasos) will always look to the cheaper alternative. Especially when Apple is a far more viable and supported name brand.
You're right of course. It doesn't "run AmigaOS". But... with respect, outside of the few remaining real Amiga users left (<1000), who really cares? Certainly not the only group of people that Eyetech/bplan have left to sell new boards to. No sales == no money == no continued existence.
I hope I'm wrong, but that's how and why I see the Mini Mac as a huge problem.
Wayne
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I'm wondering what to change that part of my sig to next...
"Thank you"
:-?
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@Wayne
I think you're right that pretty much every Amigan has bought their motherboard and that future sales must come from outside the Amiga market, but I don't agree that the Mac-Mini is a threat.
There are two markets outside of the Amiga one. There is the mainstream computer market, made of people like my parents might who buy a computer for occasional net surfin or writing letters. And there is the computing enthusiast market, made of people that use computers as a hobby and use them to develop and create stuff.
The Mac-Mini is targeted at that first market - more specifically against the £300 Windows PCs. And as a one-stop package, it is perfect for that first audience. The Amiga has no chance in this market because it just doesn't have the software.
In the computing enthusiast market, it's all about computing for the sake of it, price and top-class applications are less of an issue (most have more than one computer including a Windows PC anyway). This market seems to be dominated by Linux and OSX. It is this market that Amiga/etc must make some serious inroads in to stay afloat. So this means trying to attract some geeks, tinkerers, and hobbyist developers. I think Amiga/MorphOS is equally placed to do as well here as the Mac Mini, what we need is presence in the computing press, articles on Slashdot, OSNews etc... we need to be in the places where the geeks are and make them notice these new platforms of ours. It needn't be expensive, we really need to just make some news.
The other options we know of is that these companies look for embedded deals, and Eyetech has mentioned in the past taking an interest in the kiosk market. We also know that Eyetech has a whole business outside Amiga, and doesn't rely on the Amiga side of the business.
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What is the status on the $50 coupons now that the T-shirts are being delivered? And the $100 from the DE special?
Dammy
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@smithy,
I see your point, but I don't quite agree with your assessment. While there are two sides to the market as you mentioned, there is simply no valid impetus for the "geek" to spend $500+ on a motherboard when they can buy the whole mac mini and put linux on it for $500.
Like you said, it's about the software, and in the Amiga's case, there is none (other than the OS) and there's no way to generate interest in developers (other than sending them free machines) to build AmigaOS software. There's no money in it for developers to do so, outside of selling POTENTIALLY 1000 copies. No one, outside of bedroom developers, could survive on sales of 1000 copies. This is not the 1980's where bedroom coders are the most talented out there. Everyone with talent is already employed, and that means part-time "weekend" development, which isn't going to lead to the top-shelf applications that the Amiga needs to make an impact.
Take for example a $150 widget program. *If* _ALL_ 1000 AmigaOne owners bought the widget, that's $150,000 gross income. Take out the cost of development, packaging, shipping, promotion and advertising, taxes, and everything else, and my bet is that you're looking at less than $35,000 profit, and that's *IF* each and every one of those AmigaOne users bought a $150 program (which would never happen).
Perhaps it's different in 3rd world countries, but you can't run an office, buy connectivity, buy furniture and supplies, pay the utilities/phone/etcetera, or even provide insurance to employees on $35,000 per year. I'm not drawing parallels to Amiga Inc or anyone else here, but it is very eerily similar.
I apologize. I know that my opinion is potentially offensive considering my position, but if I had the money (which I don't), I just couldn't justify buying an AmigaOne motherboard any more versus the cheaper and complete mac mini, but that's just the way I see it.
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Garry Hare is CEO of Amiga Inc? What happened to McEwen? Got fired?
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So this means trying to attract some geeks, tinkerers, and hobbyist developers. I think Amiga/MorphOS is equally placed to do as well here as the Mac Mini, what we need is presence in the computing press, articles on Slashdot, OSNews etc... we need to be in the places where the geeks are and make them notice these new platforms of ours. It needn't be expensive, we really need to just make some news.
I don't see it. If the Geek wants to spend a load of cash, he's going to be doing it on his "Beast" system, not some exotic (and under powered) mobo/cpu. Afterall, he needs the cpu/gfx brute strength for WoW/EQ2/DAoC. That leaves us with business niche market, and we know which path they tend to take.
Dammy
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@rayt
You forget something... not every amiga user is amiga enthusiast. There are uncertain users who might want to try something new. Bringing in fresh blood is even harder. How many *new* users (never had an amiga) you have seen here?
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itix wrote:
Garry Hare is CEO of Amiga Inc? What happened to McEwen? Got fired?
where have you been? Hare has been da Boss for over a year now.
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itix wrote:
Garry Hare is CEO of Amiga Inc? What happened to McEwen? Got fired?
:lol:
Where have you been? According to court documents he has been CEO since sometime late 2002/early 2003. Before the buyout, merger, and whatever fuzzy transactions has happened.
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Aah, memory lane..
Business card circa 1Q/2003 (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/photo.php?lid=970)
Bolton's post (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1051799407&category=forum&number=32#comment)
April 2003: Bill has to come in and testify about his finances. Of course, he's broke. He can't pay. This is when we learn of the new CEO, Gary Hare, and Bill's virtual washout by the Dutch firm.
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@wayne/itix
Hmm I forgot to mention in my post that I haven't even thought about "new" users. I was just seeing recent amiga users as the only customer base for the AmigaOne/OS4. Because I can't imagine anyone with no "amiga experience" (apart from a very few rich people maybe) buys such an expensive board just to try out an exotic OS. They maybe install some toy OSs on their x86 box, but nobody would buy outdated hw/Os for so much money just because he read on websites that its different and had a glorious past in the 80s. The only other customers I could imagine other than us "amiga fanatics" may be ex users who had an amiga in the 90s.. I think a price of ~499Eur for the MicroA1 board plus OS4 could attract quite a lot of these users (regardless of the price of the mac).. But this price probably wouldn't be possible for Eyetech if they wish to survive :-(
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Now if I could only get my $100 voucher (for purchasing the "Party Pack") acknowledged and forwarded to Hyperion...
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I'm one of the very few Amiga users who havent bought their board yet :)
While I'd be fully willing to buy anything Amiga (I'm a Commodore/Amiga junkie) even I look at price as a factor coupled with the fact that AOS 4 isn't done yet. I just could never see spending that much for a Linux box.
That all sad, I'm very happy to hear I just might be getting my t-shirt soon (I definately hope they have my right address, I'm pretty sure I checked it). This news has me watching the AmigaOne very closely again.
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@redrumloa
You should read the Hare long interview about the CEO card:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=3&rev_id=50&sort_by
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ikir wrote:
@redrumloa
You should read the Hare long interview about the CEO card:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=3&rev_id=50&sort_by
I've read it. Sounds like damage control to me;-) It's kind of hard to dispute what is in court transcripts.
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my favorite Garry Hare comment:
Only recently did I discover what a moo bunny was.
I know exactly how he feels. I've only discovered moo bunny about a year ago myself.
there are some of us with a life. strange as that may sound.
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Ray,
are you posting in official capacity on behalf of AInc? If so, perhaps you could enquire how I can get my club membership $50 discount off an AmigaOne and then follow up with whom I need to submit my party pack rebate coupon too.
After 6 years of living in America, at least my t-shirt fits now! ;-)
Steve
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cecilia wrote:
itix wrote:
Garry Hare is CEO of Amiga Inc? What happened to McEwen? Got fired?
where have you been? Hare has been da Boss for over a year now.
Well, this is the first time it came from Amiga Inc themself.
The corporate site has still McEwen listed as ceo and president with no mention of Garry at all.
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While I'd be fully willing to buy anything Amiga (I'm a Commodore/Amiga junkie) even I look at price as a factor coupled with the fact that AOS 4 isn't done yet. I just could never see spending that much for a Linux box.
It might not be final yet, but the latest pre release is quite useable already from what i have seen.
The price is a totally different issue though...
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The corporate site has still McEwen listed as ceo and president with no mention of Garry at all.
Just out of curiousity, would you want your name associated with the former issues or -- for a "market illuminary" such as Garry -- with a company that appears about as "below the radar" as it can get? It's kinda like job hunting for a job as a CEO of a fortune 500 and listing "worked at K-mart" on your resume.
Amiga Inc is pretty much a black sheep for everyone involved right now, but sending out the t-shirts is at least a step in the right direction.
Wayne
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Tomas wrote:
The corporate site has still McEwen listed as ceo and president with no mention of Garry at all.
you actually go to that site for info???
:lol:
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@Cecilia
whats moo bunny? :nervous:
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Akiko wrote:
@Cecilia
whats moo bunny? :nervous:
the land of F**ktards!
:lol:
that's a refernce to polyhead, btw
the link (http://flyingmice.com/squid/moobunny/amiga/) - see at your own risk!
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I'm in rare agreement with Wayne.
After two years and a change in ownership, and the fact that there is barely anyone left that cares, and no alternative, not even from Genesi...the idea that they went and shipped t-shirts, has got to be a step in the right direction.
Kudo's on delivering t-shirts.
I also agree, that there just isn't a huge lot of room in the alternative, powerpc, whatever markets, and the mac mini is uncovering a secret, that we amigans knew about all along ( I mean that we regular amigans knew about, but our leadership was steadfastly blind too)...which is that americans and europeans WANT, most decidedly want a HOME computer....one that is fun, low cost, small, and doesn't run the same microsoft windows that we use at the office.
so, Apple, is kind of blindly stumbling into a hit that they never really understood exists...thankfully their experience in courting 'switchers' has led them down the same path, that we are at already.
Apple is either going to prove, and then take this market...or prove forever that I am wrong, and there is no market....either way, its over and done for amiga, inc.
In that light, another double kudo's for sending out t-shirts. and I'll even wish Amiga, Inc. a hardy 'good luck'
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I'm in rare agreement with Wayne
I'm in full agreement with Wayne. If the Ami* related companies continue down the same path, there will be no rebirth. I wouldn't word it as 'mini-mac will kill the Amiga'. I'd simply say 'it's the final nail in the coffin'.
Honestly I think Genesi had the best shot of making something happen, yet failed for reasons we won't get into. What a shame. Hyperion has hinted toward porting OS4 to another board beside the Teron based AmigaOne. I hope they are serious, because the Teron/AmigOne is a death sentence. Hell, as much as I like the Pegasos it will be in the same boat unles it can go more agressive on price.
Was that coherant? :lol:
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Wayne: Take for example a $150 widget program. *If* _ALL_ 1000 AmigaOne owners bought the widget, that's $150,000 gross income.
Yeah, that's what bothered me about OS4. They really could've released OS 3.95 if they wanted to instead of take years to make OS4... except that the version number would have looked pretty dumb. :-)
Look at how often Apple makes you pay for a "new" OS.
Itix: You forget something... not every amiga user is amiga enthusiast. There are uncertain users who might want to try something new. Bringing in fresh blood is even harder. How many *new* users (never had an amiga) you have seen here?
Yup. I was perfectly willing to spend $100 for the SDK to try it out, and would even pay it again if some DE beta is released, but I would never pay for a full development system.
Actually, I would buy a Mac Mini for OS4, if I could still use MacOS as a dual-boot option. I'm still considering getting a Mac Mini. It's the only Mac I've ever thought was a really good idea, and it's well-built, to boot.
Getting development software running on the PC and final retail software on proprietary hardware, at the very least, is what I find acceptable. If you have to buy all proprietary hardware just to try out a platform, or develop for it, then it will NEVER gain market share. Period. If it doesn't gain market share, it has no future. If it has no future, you might as well open-source it or continue emulating it.
Rayt: Because I can't imagine anyone with no "amiga experience" (apart from a very few rich people maybe) buys such an expensive board just to try out an exotic OS.
You mean like BeOS people?
Note that UNIX development didn't catch on in the private sector until a low-cost clone was made. Now Linux is taking over everything, even the commercial sector.
JDK: After 6 years of living in America, at least my t-shirt fits now!
I'm glad I didn't get one, 'cause it wouldn't fit me anymore. ;-)
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Honestly I think Genesi had the best shot of making something happen, yet failed for reasons we won't get into.
They failed because they largely subsidised the pegasos boards and didn't make any money at all out of the "amiga business"..
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They failed because they largely subsidised the pegasos boards and didn't make any money at all out of the "amiga business"..
They subsidized boards specifically to undercut then steal Amiga Inc's potential customers who -- even then -- were fed up and waiting for OS4.
BBRV's thinly-veiled personal motivations (some would call it a vendetta against McEwen) aside, for some odd reason, despite many wise community members telling them otherwise, both Amiga Inc and Genesi went into this thing with blinders on honestly believing that there were "millions of Amiga users" willing to buy their product. The sad fact was that around the time, there were probably less than 2000, and less than half that remain.
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Wayne wrote:
They (Genesi) subsidized boards specifically to undercut then steal Amiga Inc's potential customers who -- even then -- were fed up and waiting for OS4.
It wasn't subsidy, it was the failure of the Pegasos-1. After the abandoning of the first Pegasos line, attempts were made to make the best of a bad thing by using these boards to woo developers. First they were sold at lower prices (299 dollars instead of the original 499). Then they were simply given away for free. This helped the community (yes, the WHOLE community!) both by increasing the number of developers, and preventing their "leakage" to other platforms.
Regardless of what Buck was thinking or his dislike for Ewen, OS4 lost those users "fair and square" because of expensive hardware, Amiga Inc. scandals and an OS long behind schedule; while Genesi gained them by throwing free hardware at developers, developer support sites and having visually better setup. It wasn't because of some evil subterfuge designed to destroy Amiga Inc. AInc simply did not support the community and is not in a position to claim they were somehow conspired against by someone who did.
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And another thing. A hypothetical situation: supposing Genesi, bPlan and MorphOS never existed, and Eyetech and Hyperion didn't have any serious PPC competition from 2001 to present day.
Would that have prevented XE and SE users having to keep their boards in a cupboard years after purchase? Would it have prevented thousands of people holding back on buying them waiting for the price to drop a bit, or because OS4 was not ready? Would it have meant news of pretty serious bugs in A1 hardware wouldn't put anyone off? Would it have prevented there being a large number of people so distrustful of Amiga Inc after Bill McEwens blatant "mistruths" so they weren't interested in *anything* they ever did again? Would it have produced Eyetech's production capacity?
The answer to all these is no. It wouldn't have changed a damn thing.
If MorphOS had never existed, personally, like thousands of others, I'd either have prolonged buying an AmigaONE indefinitely after not getting my voucher (and watching the original Escena A1 plan quietly "disappear"), or got it and be sitting starkly disillusioned right now close on a grand out of pocket with a machine that did not work as I was told it would, with only a beta of OS4 for comfort. Probably the former.
Seriously, the blame for condition the community was in since Amiga Inc. took over cannot be placed on competition. Amiga Inc. dropped the ball, it's as simple as that. Eyetech and Hyperion both massively underestimated the scale of the task they picked up, and perhaps they'd never had to if Amiga Inc. hadn't abandoned the "classic" Amiga OS and left them with zero support.
Now its 2005, we're back where we were when Amino bought the Amiga IP: Genesi are not here (they're practically out of the picture), MorphOS is being developed in part time by unpaid coders, new A1 models are coming out. It's amazing, it's like 2001 again.
But KMOS/AInc haven't quite made up that trust deficit with the T-shirts, however much I appreciate them. It's much too easy to repeat the mistakes of the past. What I want to see now is the vouchers and Party Pack obligations being met. Once that's done, maybe we can look up to them as a real company again and start healing the rifts in the community. Until that, I can't trust them and I doubt many others will either.
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KennyR wrote:
...
But KMOS/AInc haven't quite made up that trust deficit with the T-shirts, however much I appreciate them. It's much too easy to repeat the mistakes of the past. What I want to see now is the vouchers and Party Pack obligations being met. Once that's done, maybe we can look up to them as a real company again and start healing the rifts in the community. Until that, I can't trust them and I doubt many others will either.
Well roared, lion!
I agree entirely!
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Seriously, the blame for condition the community was in since Amiga Inc. took over cannot be placed on competition. Amiga Inc. dropped the ball, it's as simple as that.
I'm not suggesting otherwise. Though BBRV did intentionally help Amiga Inc dig their deep hole, the hole that Amiga Inc is in belongs solely to them.
However.... When Bill and Raquel are sitting across from both me and Melissa at the dinner table and emphatically state that they're actively trying to "run McEwen out of town", the causes for the current state of Amiga Inc are not as crystal clear as you would like to suggest.
In regards to Amiga Inc, whether or not they survive is almost irrelevant to me any more. Especially since the "cheap PPC alternative market" just got cornered by Apple. For the reasons I've already speculated above, I honestly fear that it's simply too late now for either to make a dent in the world.
That being said, I sincerely hope every member of their staff (both past and present) is doing well, just as I hope almost every current, and every former member of the Genesi team is doing well.
Regardless of how things turned out, each person involved with both Amiga Inc and Genesi *has* honestly tried to make a difference for the better, which is more than can be said for some trolls (or cheerleaders) in this community. Personally speaking, I'm critically tired of watching this necrophilic soap opera and seeing the lives of good people being ruined along the way.
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The major question now is:
Will Eyetech sell enough Micro a1-c boards(i would guess around 4/5000) to continue with the a1-XC board(A board that WILL catch up with the rest of the world hardware wise, and to a much more logical pricetag)
So we have to buy some now, and gain some later.
It`s not easy building up momentum in such a small market,
but where can you start?
And if some other companies brought along other boards with a license, nothing would be better.
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cecilia wrote:
I know exactly how he feels. I've only discovered moo bunny about a year ago myself.
there are some of us with a life. strange as that may sound.
I don't mean you :) But... I think that many of the people in Moo Bunny do have as much life as zombies :) Moo bunny must be one of the worlds most annoying web sites.
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How long before the rarest amiga item ever the t shirt ends up on ebay.
if only amiga os was written for x86 the market for it would have been much larger almost everyone has a pc.For me ppc is now to far behind for me to invest any more money into .I want a new 64 bit athlon pc more than anything now.
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@amigamad:
Remember AmigaOSXL/Amithlon? It was quickly pirated, do u want the same thing to happen to OS4?
Atleast with PPC the chance of pirating the OS is smaller.
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Remember AmigaOSXL/Amithlon? It was quickly pirated, do u want the same thing to happen to OS4?
Amount of piracy means nothing, it's the amount of paying customers that means a successful business. M$ used piracy to gain world domination of the computer market and now they are trying to collect as much $ as they can before the next big change (which will be Linux) ends thier dominance. Umilator did not die becaue of threats of piracy, it was someone's brain dead threats against it.
Dammy
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M$ used piracy to gain world domination of the computer market and now they are trying to collect as much $ as they can before the next big change
I actually agree with what you've said. Even counting piracy, Hyperion would have sold 10x more copies to legitimate customers under x86 than the 1500 or so AmigaOne boards. Then they would have been able to sell updates and versionary increments. Doesn't matter. They didn't listen when I screamed this four years ago. They aren't going to listen now.
I also agree that Microsoft USED piracy to get in place everywhere, which is why they're pushing so hard to clamp down on it now. Now that they "have you where they want you", they want the money you "owe them".
Wayne
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Atleast with PPC the chance of pirating the OS is smaller.
Shame on you. Amigans, of all people, should understand how harmful hardware locking and copy protection is to any platform. I know you're talking specifically about the CPU, here, but the neverending quest to crack down on piracy has usually just screwed over paying customers. Choosing a CPU based on piracy concerns is stupid, compared to performance, value, and flexibility.
The Amiga has always had the worst copy protection of any computer I've ever used, to the point where the software wouldn't even work -- and it only got worse and worse as people figured out new, clever ways to hack the hardware.
Even after buying originals, I got cracked versions of all my games because half the time the originals went bad and / or made me type in stupid codes from blood-red manuals.
Do you know how many A500 games don't work on the 1200 *just* because of the stupid things done with the disk code?
How do you feel when you buy a new PC game on a CD, put it in the drive, and the game refuses to boot? How do you feel when the publishers blame your hardware and say there's nothing they can do, while getting a NoCD crack instantly fixes the problem? It's the dependency on the copy protection built into your CD-ROM that causes the problems, and the developers don't want you to know WHY the game refuses to boot, so you get no error messages.
Macs have this problem, too. I had several issues where Macintoshes with Sony CD-ROMs used software just fine, but Macs with Toshiba drives croaked. Even though all the Macs were officially built by Apple, there were still branding complications. Updates to MacOS (such as the 8.1 patch) sometimes solved the problem, but there were many issues I couldn't resolve short of replacing the CD-ROMs or downloading a new patch for an application, hoping the developers would "silently" fix a copy protection compatibility issue.
Like it or not, turning hardware into software is the future of computing. Ten years from now, the idea of running software on only one CPU will be insane. Are people learning anything from Linux and Java?
I also agree that Microsoft USED piracy to get in place everywhere, which is why they're pushing so hard to clamp down on it now. Now that they "have you where they want you", they want the money you "owe them".
I don't quite see why as 95% of computers are pre-built machines with Windows pre-installed, and therefore Microsoft gets their money even if the computers sit on shelves collecting dust.
Note that Windows has HUGE restrictions on what you can do to a system that has nothing to do with piracy, such as being unable to access files on an NTFS hard drive partition from the Windows boot CD without owning an enterprise WinPE license. You can access all the OS files, but not your PERSONAL files. If anyone knows how to read files from the recovery console, please let me know. And, no, turning on "access to all drives and folders" in your Local Security Policy does not do it.
Personally, I just think Microsoft marketeers are full of you-know-what because they just have so much power. Everyone knows that bosses don't make decisions based on logic.