Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Atheist on February 24, 2003, 12:00:01 PM
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Doesn't the Mac, using a PPC, have the same problem that we experienced on the A1? If not, how did they solve/work around it? Can't we do the same thing?
Amiga! A solution in need of a solution.
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AFAIK, Apple design their own chipsets...
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What problem do "we" experience on the A1???
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So, moto sells a CPU, and someone else has to figure out how to connect it to the ram chips? Is moto trying to sell CPUs or not? When you're that big, I guess you don't care.
Amiga! We do it our way.
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Apples do not use Articia chips. They use equivalent IBM chips, which do not have the bugs.
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And...we...don't...use...those...because... There's something that I'm missing here, which is?
Amiga! Let's do it their way.
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Well, Atheist what a great idea!
Lets see, first we need a spare million (USD or Euros) and we will get to work on it. Could you front the funds? Alternately, we could buy the IBM chip but in either case (Pegasos or Teron) the possibilities require a new board design. Hummm...
Who will do this? Well, we will from our side. What is the other planning? (Pssst...Teron=Mai=Articia...see the problem?).
Check the MorphZone for a few more thoughts later today...
R&B :-)
P.S. Your ANN posts were really genius too! 8-)
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bbrv you really are a dick.
CnlPepper - fed up of the insults and crap from ALL sections of the amiga "community"...
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"Who will do this? Well, we will from our side. What is the other planning? (Pssst...Teron=Mai=Articia...see the problem?)."
Nope. What problem? Availability? Shouldn't matter right now, as AOS4 isn't ready, the boards aren't really needed now.
I have yet to read what April2 is supposed to fix, unless it was the remaining UDMA bug.
It's not uncommon for chipsets to suffer from bugs. The last PC motherboard I owned (MSI using AMD's Irongate chipset) had at least one, although that was only a problem under Linux. It's also not uncommon to fix these issues in software rather than hardware.
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Well, Atheist what a great idea!
Lets see, first we need a spare million (USD or Euros) and we will get to work on it. Could you front the funds?
That was pretty rude.
I think he was just wondering why if "Apple does not use Articia chips. They use equivalent IBM chips, which do not have the bugs" then why haven't companies (not just Genesi) used these IBM chips instead of the Articia form the beginging.
I think it's a good question. Why is that?? Cost?? Supply??
Insulting someone for asking a question, as fun as it might be to you, is still not answering their question.
AmigaGuy
P.S. Your Answer to a simple question on Amiga.org was really genius too!
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Every hardware manufacturer has to supply drivers that will run on any PC, any BIOS, with patches to make his hardware work on all versions of Windows. His hardware is expensive to make and has to be made as cheap as possible. There will always be some incompatibilities between what he has designed and someone's particular hardware or software setup. Fix it in software - you only have to pay once for that.
When a manufacturer finds that his new hardware doesn't do this or that under these conditions, he patches his driver software to make it happen (which is why new Windows drivers are issued so frequently). He calls it an upgrade, his competitors call it a festering bug. The result is the same, his hardware now works under more conditions than it did last week.
VIA can't afford to make their chipset work under all conditions, and the others can't, either. That's why every piece of hardware comes with a "Windows Install CD", which contains drivers and patches for the OS.
Mai is no different. At this stage of the game, there is only one (available) chipset that supports AGP for PPC, and that is Articia.
Consequently, everyone that wants to use Articia for hardware access has to make their drivers do the interfacing in software. At the moment, no hardware manufacturers are releasing video cards or anything else, tailored for PPC boards or particular PPC OSes. So the OS developers (Hyperion, Genesi, the owners of early G3/G4 boards, Mai engineers) are having to do the software work.
It's not a big deal, it just takes time.
tony
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Who will do this? Well, we will from our side. What is the other planning? (Pssst...Teron=Mai=Articia...see the problem?).
and who are you to say noone is designing boards that don't use the mai chipset for the otherside? last I noticed you had your head shoved so far up eyetech and hyperion's ### you can't see beyond that scope of reality.
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and who are you to say noone is designing boards that don't use the mai chipset for the otherside? last I noticed you had your head shoved so far up eyetech and hyperion's ### you can't see beyond that scope of reality.
Uh, I think you might need a clue.
BB = Bill Buck = CEO of Genesi. If you haven't noticed, they (Genesi) don't particularly care for either Hyperion or Eyetech.
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BB = Bill Buck = CEO of Genesi. If you haven't noticed, they (Genesi) don't particularly care for either Hyperion or Eyetech.
could have fooled me by his posts...maybe I must be getting some mystical posts that you're not getting because I've certainly seen him up thier ### ;)
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could have fooled me by his posts...maybe I must be getting some mystical posts that you're not getting because I've certainly seen him up thier ### ;)
Consider yourself a mystic, then.
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@ tonyw
Thanks for the reply, it was clear and I think most people aren't aware of that, unless it has been brought up months ago (and it probably was).
Amiga! Won't make custom HW, but HAS!
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Consider yourself a mystic, then.
well since more then one have seem to misunderstood me. I should clarify myself a little better.. fact of the matter is bb has made it very clear that he's interested in his competitors products if he wasn't he wouldn't mention them in almost every thread he posts in(intentionally exagerated for dramatic effect lol)... he's interested which is very common in business what is not common is spending more time insulting and talking about your competitors or insinuating new products then working on your own products.
(hell noone's yet mentions that the specs were informed so far about the new peggyII board could very easily by spec anyways be the Artica P. Big deal if it is. I personally would find it funny considering the big anti mai thread here.)
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Even I have to admit, Buck's comment was total
dickhead.
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Boy, am I thick skulled. That means tha the Agnus chip in an Amiga (designed by the genius from Hi Torro), IS an Articia S for Amigas. And, due to being custom made for Amiga, doesn't require patches/drivers to the tune of 65 megs (directx 8.1) of code to run.
Amiga! Amiga=Education!
Amiga! Patches, we don't need no stinkin' patches! (well, small ones, maybe).
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Atheist questions where either very naiv
or rather stupid, pick one.
On my opinion, BB answer was OK.
You can't blame them for choosing the Articia.
They wanted to build a PPC based computer - the Pegasos.
For the CPU they decided to offer an CPU slot.
- Which was a decision we all appreciated very much.
For the first CPU module the picked the IBM 750 cxe.
- Again a very reasonable decision.
Running Amiga/MorphOS the G3 (750)
has a similar performance as the G4
but uses less Power (=no fan) and is much cheaper.
For the northbridge they chosed the use the Articia.
- Now, we know that this was maybe a bad decision,
but at the time they decided to use it,
it was a very reasonable decision.
The Artecia offered many features at a reasonable price.
Everybody should know that exchanging
the northbridge now is not so easy.
The have invested real money in
- designing the boards
- producing boards
- and writing code /driver for the Articia
I think that everybody understands that
the northbidge is a vital part of the mainboard
which can't just be replaced.
By using another nothbridge most of their work
and money to build the Pegasos is wasted.
They will have a build a complete new board.
How would you feel if you invested big time
and money in building a Computer system ;
and then, just before you can start selling them,
you see that they are broken - and its not even your fault.
And now people will ask you question like
- look at MAC they do it better than you -
Why don't you throw away your design and
start again from scratch ?
Well, this would really piss me off too.
just my 2cents
regards
Gunnar
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I think maybe naive, but NOT stupid.
After all, with the crap that's posted in the Amiga news these days, who can blame someone for not being totally up to scratch?
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1) Apple doesn't use "IBM chips" or whatever the hell you're trying to say. Apple designs their own north bridge chips. It's called UniNorth.
2) MAC = media access control, not Macintosh
3) If you want a Mac, buy a Mac. You're not going to convince Apple (or anybody with a brain) you can buy their chips, design a whole new board, and sell it for less. If you want to use their nirth bridge chips you may as well puchase Macs in bulk and resell them as MorphOS machines. The main difference being you'll actually be able to run MOL legally.
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Puhh.
Finally someone put an end to these lies about macs using IBM controller chips (I have a mac myself so i know :-) ).
In fact Apple once tried to licence out it´s technology, but it didn´t work out as they expected, so they ended the licence program.
The IBM "alternative" controller that everyone talks about does not have AGP support and it´s not aimed at the same marked (low cost mobos) as the Articia S. Neither have the Marvell controller which there has been some rumours of being used by an Amiga competitor for their next computer model.
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1) Apple doesn't use "IBM chips" or whatever the hell you're trying to say. Apple designs their own north bridge chips. It's called UniNorth.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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@KennyR
If you (and others) had bothered to do some research before you sent your comments he probably wouldn´t have to clear it up.
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bbrv dick :-P
good one
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If you (and others) had bothered to do some research before you sent your comments he probably wouldn´t have to clear it up.
Yeah people!! What do people think Forums are for? Huh? To get help or get answers to questions?
Nope, they're only for bbrv to make announcements in.
AmigaGuy