Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: KILOCO_U2 on January 07, 2005, 03:36:18 PM
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Yo!!
Some old and great videos about Amiga e Commodore 64:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=amiga%20AND%20mediatype%3Amovies
Good fun!!!
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Conmputer chronicles is a great source of history.
BTW I wonder what ever happened to the First Amiga Users Group, in Palo Alto.
srg
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repost :-P
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You know, there are a lot of good points in the C64 video. The most important combination of points, I think, is that the C64 was an inexpensive computer that was easy to use. Also, Commodore flooded the market emphasizing the ease of use and the low cost.
There is still no product that addresses this market today in 2005. A grandma and grandpa that could use the C64 to create a program to help her knit; I haven't heard of something like that on a Windows or MacOS computer.
AmigaOS is still the perfect candiate for this, but the A1 is still way too expensive. Workbench is simple to use. Put AmigaOS and Workbench on a modern day PDA chip, stick it in a small box with a keyboard. Provide a few program goodies, and sell it for less than $200 or even $100. Or create a PDA with AmigaOS and Workbench that can be connected to a keyboard and monitor for normal computer use.
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DavidF215 wrote:
You know, there are a lot of good points in the C64 video. The most important combination of points, I think, is that the C64 was an inexpensive computer that was easy to use. Also, Commodore flooded the market emphasizing the ease of use and the low cost.
This statement is specious at best. The C64 was no easier - or harder - to use than comparable PCs of the time. All had the same requirement that at the very least you had to load a program first before they could do anything, and the ease of use depended on the program itself.
In fact, given that unlike the Atari or Apple or IBM the C64 had no disk autoloader, the user had to load a program manually thus putting it one step behind the others. Additionally, the user had to wait and wait and wait for programs to load on the '64. The advent of Fast Load -type cardridges came along later in the C64's life. Other turbo programs you either had to load by hand or type in (I'm thinking of a few I saw in Ahoy! and Compute's! Gazette).
The '64s popularity came from it's ubiquity and C='s willingness to dump palletloads of the things at Montgomery Wards, K-Mart, and so on. If, say, Exidy had been as initially successful at marketing things would be no different regarding the Sorcerer and Sorcerer II.
The C64 was a typical computer of it's day, it just had a large user base thanks to cutthroat business tactics on the part of C=, tactics which were (bafflingly) dropped when they bought the Lorraine/Hi-Toro and turned it in to the Amiga.
Don't get me wrong; I had a C64 and I loved it, but I've understood over the years what made it so popular. Apple computers had better overall hardware, Atari computers had a superior disk/file management system, IBMs were more expandable...C= just had the price point.
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Ooooh, I just gotta say something.
The C64 was equipped with BASIC, as were the others, but the 64 had more colors and big sprites to play with, not to mention sound. Not really easy, but more to show for your work. The C128 on the other hand is oft forgot but was a real whiz-bang. BASIC 7.0 gave easy control of the sprites and sound, enabling you to make the computer dance and sing to your desires with only modest work. I bought an Amiga because Ben ?? the editor of Info mag. said I should, but I have never come even close to getting the functionality out of it that the C128 provided. Visual Basic for Windows comes close but is still way more difficult. Of course, my wish to write simple programs for my work is just me, "your mileage may vary."
I have a room in my house (the museum of obsolete technology) with C64s, a C128, a Mac, a hopped up A500, an old Wintell machine, and a speeded up A4000. If the comet hit tomorrow, and I could save only one thing for posterity, I think it would be the C128.
2 cents worth-
CRL
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Ooooh, I just gotta say something.
The C64 was equipped with BASIC, as were the others, but the 64 had more colors and big sprites to play with, not to mention sound. Not really easy, but more to show for your work. The C128 on the other hand is oft forgot but was a real whiz-bang. BASIC 7.0 gave easy control of the sprites and sound, enabling you to make the computer dance and sign to your desires with only modest work. I bought an Amiga because Ben ?? the editor of Info mag. said I should, but I have never come even close to getting the functionality out of it that the C128 provided. Visual Basic for Windows comes close but is still way more difficult. Of course, my wish to write simple programs for my work is just me, "your mileage may vary."
I have a room in my house (the museum of obsolete technology) with C64s, a C128, a Mac, a hopped up A500, an old Wintell machine, and a speeded up A4000. If the comet hit tomorrow, and I could save only one thing for posterity, I think it would be the C128.
2 cents worth-
CRL
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Ooooh, I just gotta say something.
The C64 was equipped with BASIC, as were the others, but the 64 had more colors and big sprites to play with, not to mention sound. Not really easy, but more to show for your work. The C128 on the other hand is oft forgot but was a real whiz-bang. BASIC 7.0 gave easy control of the sprites and sound, enabling you to make the computer dance and sign to your desires with only modest work. I bought an Amiga because Ben ?? the editor of Info mag. said I should, but I have never come even close to getting the functionality out of it that the C128 provided. Visual Basic for Windows comes close but is still way more difficult. Of course, my wish to write simple programs for my work is just me, "your mileage may vary."
I have a room in my house (the museum of obsolete technology) with C64s, a C128, a Mac, a hopped up A500, an old Wintell machine, and a speeded up A4000. If the comet hit tomorrow, and I could save only one thing for posterity, I think it would be the C128.
2 cents worth-
CRL
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Oops, sorry- must have hit the wrong key to make three posts-
Beginner indeed-
CRL
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B00tDisk wrote:
DavidF215 wrote:
You know, there are a lot of good points in the C64 video. The most important combination of points, I think, is that the C64 was an inexpensive computer that was easy to use. Also, Commodore flooded the market emphasizing the ease of use and the low cost.
This statement is specious at best. The C64 was no easier - or harder - to use than comparable PCs of the time. All had the same requirement that at the very least you had to load a program first before they could do anything, and the ease of use depended on the program itself.
Yeah, that is true somewhat. Most programs loaded the same, so that helped to make it easier: Load "*",8,1
In fact, given that unlike the Atari or Apple or IBM the C64 had no disk autoloader, the user had to load a program manually thus putting it one step behind the others. Additionally, the user had to wait and wait and wait for programs to load on the '64. The advent of Fast Load -type cardridges came along later in the C64's life. Other turbo programs you either had to load by hand or type in (I'm thinking of a few I saw in Ahoy! and Compute's! Gazette).
The loading speed was an issue. Never liked it, but hey at least there were 16 colors compared to the IBM B&W.
The '64s popularity came from it's ubiquity and C='s willingness to dump palletloads of the things at Montgomery Wards, K-Mart, and so on. If, say, Exidy had been as initially successful at marketing things would be no different regarding the Sorcerer and Sorcerer II.
I always did wonder about that. C= made a massive effort with the C64, but did nothing similar with the Amiga.
The C64 was a typical computer of it's day, it just had a large user base thanks to cutthroat business tactics on the part of C=, tactics which were (bafflingly) dropped when they bought the Lorraine/Hi-Toro and turned it in to the Amiga.
Don't get me wrong; I had a C64 and I loved it, but I've understood over the years what made it so popular. Apple computers had better overall hardware, Atari computers had a superior disk/file management system, IBMs were more expandable...C= just had the price point.
KMOS may need to use similar cut throat techniques to get a foot hold in a market for AmigaOS again. And unfortunately, there is no Amiga solution that could be manufactured with a low enough price to dump pallet loads of Amiga computers off at similar places, too.
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@KILOCO_U2
Wow...........nice Link dude! where can I download those actual DPaint Animations?....these guys should release their original work to the public
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Yes, I posted a link to that site here some time ago, but nice for people who havn't seen it :-D
Original Thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12515)
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KMOS may need to use similar cut throat techniques to get a foot hold in a market for AmigaOS again. And unfortunately, there is no Amiga solution that could be manufactured with a low enough price to dump pallet loads of Amiga computers off at similar places, too.
The Amiga at this point consists of two parts: old, slowly breaking-down machines, the last of which were manufactured over a decade ago. While the "amiga community" (some 1000-5000 users, probably) may swap them around, no one other than a nostalgia enthusiast would consider buying one. The other part are the folks who've plunked down their cash for the Amiga-1 systems, and they're rather like the folks who've bought the C=1 boards. At this point it's a hobby niche, and there's never going to be some revolution where I can go into CompUSA (or even hit compusa.com) and buy A1 hardware or software (although given that the A1 "runs on" commodity PC parts you might make the argument that I already can).
If the Amiga ever had a chance it was in the late 80's, early 90's. Commodore so thoroughly {bleep}ed up the company that by 1994 nobody would touch them. If there was going to have been a miraculous comeback, that's when it should've been. It kills me that people say "Yeah, back in '98 or 2000 we still had a chance!" Heh.
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Here's the 'Original' thread...
Nostalgia: Amiga Computer Chronicles Episodes Online (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44391)
glad to see they updated the archive with mpeg-4 videos.
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Whoah! I've never seen this archive before. This is great!
I watched Computer Chronicles religiously in high school. I was always watching for any mention of the Amiga and remember several of these episodes.
There are some great old videos that will most likely be lost forever. I used to work at an Amiga dealer and remember things like the Aegis (remember them?) demo reel with entries to their animation contest ("Apocalypse Real Soon Now"), screens from 20,000 Leagues, etc. Then there's stuff like the first Amiga World computer animation video. There were promotional videos with Kara Bloom and other Amiga artists of the day.
Man, I wish I hadn't lost track of these over the years.
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@B00tDisk
I'm so sick of reading posts like this.
If you are intending to say that their is no more room for another computer OS or system in todays IT world, I would say to you, wake up. Because that's what your saying by telling everyone an OS is dead and buried and won't survive in these times.
There is plenty of room for a number of new platforms. It wasn't so long ago Linux arrived, quite some time after the amiga, and when it was FIRST released, it could do nothing more than shell commands as it didn't even have a working GUI at that time, yeah, that's right, X-Windows wasn't working! while the IBM clones of the time had windows and browsers and internet, heck, they even had printing! Something Linux users praised the lord when gostscript came along.
Now, to have a totaly niche based computer OS develop into what it is now from those humble begginings and against those odds (M$, Apple) it just goes to show you, without USB, Ethernet (which came 4 generations or 8 months later, I know, because my friend was President of Linux club in Australia and committed the Ethernet code), no printers, or browsers, this OS took off and chased the very heals of Microsoft themselves to a stage where most now consider it to be the only OS to use if safety on the internet is your primary concern.
So really, take a good look at the IT world before making a statement of such, there it is a very big dynamic world of technology, and AMIGA has just as much a chance at this as Linux did. Yes, even now in 2005! it doesn't take much to look at history to proove that one.
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SHADES wrote:
@B00tDisk
So really, take a good look at the IT world before making a statement of such, there it is a very big dynamic world of technology, and AMIGA has just as much a chance at this as Linux did. Yes, even now in 2005! it doesn't take much to look at history to proove that one.
Oh grow up.
It isn't a matter of what there is or isn't room for in the market. The simple matter is that the Amiga has all but disappeared in terms of user-base, okay? There's what, maybe a thousand or so serious users?
The end result of that is that the support network around the Amiga - the thing that can move a platform through the market - is also virtually nonexistent. Look, I admire what Hyperion has done. It's really great effort on their part. But you need to understand: THERE IS NO AMIGA MARKET. THERE HASN'T BEEN FOR OVER A DECADE.
It is a hobby niche, plain and simple. Enjoy it! UAE, Amiga-1, old hardware, it's all good. Just don't kid yourself about there being any great Amiga revolution. You might like to think that Apple's success (if you can call the marginalized hanging-on they do with regard to the computer desktop a "success") doesn't happen because of happy thoughts and good wishes. It happens because there's a multi-billion dollar coporation driving it.
What's that you say? What about Linux? Linux didn't happen in a vacuum either. If Linux had required some hardware widget that didn't exist when it was concieved, it would've gone down without a ripple. But it ran (rather, runs) on cheap PC hardware. And it's still a tiny fraction of the PC desktop market, and nowhere near a majority in the server market.
Why do people like you throw a fit when confronted with facts? Sheesh.
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@ Bootdisk
>"Oh grow up.
>It isn't a matter of what there is or isn't room for in the >market. The simple matter is that the Amiga has all but >disappeared in terms of user-base, okay? There's what, >maybe a thousand or so serious users?"
Grow up???
I will try perhaps when you do your homework!
It was the very same thing for Linux when it first started. An extremly small userbase with next to no support and months of waiting for updates and features, yet it still managed to grow. It's not a debate, simple fact and there is NO reason as to why that can't happen with AMIGA OS. None.
>"What's that you say? What about Linux? Linux didn't happen >in a vacuum either. If Linux had required some hardware >widget that didn't exist when it was concieved, it would've >gone down without a ripple. But it ran (rather, runs) on >cheap PC hardware. And it's still a tiny fraction of the PC >desktop market, and nowhere near a majority in the server >market."
>"Why do people like you throw a fit when confronted with >facts? Sheesh."
As for running on cheap PC hardware, it also runs on very expensive SUN hardware and a mirriad of other expensive Machines!
Are these the facts you were thinking I was fitting over
:lol:
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Two hour downloads (per movie) !?!
{getting only 156kbps}
Well I got some free time....I guess
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From a UK perspective, the C64 was the ugly computer with the reasonable graphics, good games and audio that took a long time to load. They might as well have sold it with a single key that did LOAD "*",8,1
The Sinclair Spectrum was the cute little computer with the crappy, albeit detailed, graphics and fun games that was cheaper.
The Amstrad CPC was the other computer with colourful good graphics, average sound and decent business abilities (CP/M for example) and came with a monitor so the home TV wasn't taken over.
The C64 was laughed at for having the worst BASIC and for being ugly. Spectrum was laughed at for being a Spectrum. Amstrad was laughed at for not being very good at games (well, it was good, but its bitmapped screen made it a bit slower than a computer with tiled graphics). The bad BASIC on the C64 forced curious people to learn assembler, hence the good smooth games. The good BASIC on the CPC (not as good as the BBC, but that was a school computer, ewww!) meant lots of homebrew software, but fewer people hit the hardware in assembler. The Spectrum ... well, Spectrum programmers used MAXAM on a CPC then transferred the data across to the Spectrum.
The Atari 8-bits were nowhere in the UK, but I hear they were popular in the USA. They beat the C64 in terms of graphics and BASIC, but cost ... not until the XE, and that was too little too late.
I agree, AmigaOS was the perfect OS for systems like a PDA. Too late now, of course. Whilst AmigaOS keeps on being targetted towards expensive desktop systems, it would be better spending the time making it run in a suitable niche.
Edit: ooh, 200th post. :)
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@ hattig
Perhaps.
Look, as far as I'm concerned it all boils down to this.
If there is enough demand for the product, the product will continue to grow and things will inveitably get cheaper.
It(Amiga os) doesn't work on the x86 platform and there was discussion on following the other main contender to this CPU which ended up being the PPC core.
There are very few competing OS's on this platform and I think therefore makes sense to show off something different on this side. The real only contender on this PPC CPU is Apple and ok, Linux :)) which can be compiled to run on just about everything now.
Still, there's no Microsoft to deal with, yet, and this could be a new beginning for another OS that I believe to be a great OS with loads of potential.
Time will tell, but AMIGA OS certainly isn't dead, it's about to begin and there's heaps of room in the IT world left for a number of OS's yet.
I remeber when this type of dicussion was aimed at Linux. People were saying, your all stupid, no one will use it, why would they, it won't run windows apps.
Clearly it has lived and grown past all that now.
I for one believe AMIGA OS could also become a super OS, given time, and interest in it!
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B00tDisk wrote:
What's that you say? What about Linux? Linux didn't happen in a vacuum either. If Linux had required some hardware widget that didn't exist when it was concieved, it would've gone down without a ripple. But it ran (rather, runs) on cheap PC hardware. And it's still a tiny fraction of the PC desktop market, and nowhere near a majority in the server market.
If Linux is in bad position as you say it is, then why is Microsoft considering it a threat? Obviously, it is no longer the small, dainty OS that you think it is. At least Microsoft recognizes the potential of Linux to cause problems with its bottom line. THAT is the fact. According to the surveys from big IT companies, the LinuxOS market share is growing in the server market very rapidly. Big companies like IBM are behind its development (IBM even added some Linux support into its Enterprise level AIX OS), so you will never be able to claim adequately that Linux has "nowhere near a majority in the server market". Linux exists in many solutions, with Enterprise support, and a continually growing market. I will admit that I am not a big Linux fan, but I continue to read how it is gaining market share; and if Microsoft consideres it a threat to its Monopoly, then to suggest that it is has a small, unimportant market share is ignorant and dogmatic.
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You dont need massive market share to have a profitable company and many many happy customers, sheesh, BMW has ONLY 5% of the world car market!
Now is a German engineered vehicle like the BMW {bleep}e because it doesnt dominate the world?
AmigaOS will always have a chance :-)