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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: redrumloa on December 18, 2004, 02:10:23 PM

Title: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: redrumloa on December 18, 2004, 02:10:23 PM
Add a keyboard, hook up a real 1541? 256 color C64? Looks like Jeri rolled in alot of stuff! I gotta buy one, actually a few. One to hack, a couple to collect.

Site one (http://www.retrohacker.org/c64dtvhack)

Hack site two (http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/c64dtv)

Hack site three (http://thedarkside.ath.cx/dtv/ports.html)

Hack site four (http://creztor.blogspot.com/)

Hack site five (http://www.orrville.net/dtvhacking/personal/)

Wow I havn't seen this much excitement in the C= community since the SuperCPU was announced.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: adolescent on December 18, 2004, 05:16:09 PM
Couple of problems as I see them.

Compatibility - The system was designed to run only the games that are in the compilation.  Compatibility with other games is very low so far, especially games with fast loaders.

Stick - The joystick sucks.  When I mod mine I'm going to swap out the stick with another stick and some better quality buttons.

Case - with the mods (flash, etc.) being developed, it's going to need a new case/power source (needed for the keyboard already).  Finding a suitable project box that doesn't make the entire system bigger than a normal C64 is the challenge.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: TjLaZer on December 18, 2004, 07:12:06 PM
OK this may be a dumb question, but where can one buy this C64DTV?  I am in the Seattle area.  Actually I bought this Sega Genesis 6-in-1 and it rocks!  Wouldn't a Amiga 500 game stick be cool?  Games like Shadow of the Beast, Marble Madness, and Last Ninja...  Drool.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: redrumloa on December 18, 2004, 07:34:40 PM
Quote

TjLaZer wrote:
OK this may be a dumb question, but where can one buy this C64DTV?  


QVC (http://www.qvc.com/asp/frameset.asp?nest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qvc.com%2Fasp%2FisItemNumberRedirect.asp&frames=y&referrer=QVC&txtDesc=commodore+64) has exclusive distribution rights atm. I just ordered 3.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: Cefa on December 18, 2004, 08:07:30 PM
Are this unit pal compatible??
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 18, 2004, 08:20:44 PM
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Quote

TjLaZer wrote:
OK this may be a dumb question, but where can one buy this C64DTV?  


QVC (http://www.qvc.com/asp/frameset.asp?nest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qvc.com%2Fasp%2FisItemNumberRedirect.asp&frames=y&referrer=QVC&txtDesc=commodore+64) has exclusive distribution rights atm. I just ordered 3.


Not in the UK they don't.  Just searched qvcuk.com and they don't stock it. :-(

The missus is always buying stuff from them, this is the one time EVER, that i didn't mind something from QVC coming thru my postbox! ;-)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: Cefa on December 18, 2004, 08:32:54 PM
Aaaaarrgg If they were pal compatible i would buy one asap. Would be nice ot hack them and play Last ninja and Bubble bobble two player mode.
I hope they make a pal version would be nice to try some c64 demos to test the compability.

Apparantly i read somewhere that this unit has a real 256 color mode and other stuff as well . So its a enhanced version of the c64 . This is just so cool C64DTV demo scene anyone :)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 18, 2004, 08:49:25 PM
Quote

Cefa wrote:
Aaaaarrgg If they were pal compatible i would buy one asap. Would be nice ot hack them and play Last ninja and Bubble bobble two player mode.
I hope they make a pal version would be nice to try some c64 demos to test the compability.

Apparantly i read somewhere that this unit has a real 256 color mode and other stuff as well . So its a enhanced version of the c64 . This is just so cool C64DTV demo scene anyone :)


Remeber when Smash Designs recreated the old PC demo "Second Reality" for the c64?

Imagine that same recreation being re-coded with 256 colors.

It would look just the same if not better than the PC version, yet be infinately more cool! :-)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: carls on December 18, 2004, 11:11:29 PM
This must be the coolest hardware of the year.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: MaDDuck on December 18, 2004, 11:41:20 PM
I was on the fence about getting one, having no love of QVC and an admiration of Jeri's engeneering. Seeing those links on hacking them, which I'll probably never do anyway, convinced me that I should get it.
QVC, for the first time in their history, just got some of my money!
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: DMC12 on December 19, 2004, 02:09:15 AM
Just a thought for all of you out there using PAL...

Emerson makes a NTSC to PAL converter for $40.00 Model # EVC-1500.  Look around...I see a few that are even cheaper than that...
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: adolescent on December 19, 2004, 03:40:40 AM
The PAL version is set to come out early next year.  The exclusive UK (actually, everywhere in the world except North America) distributor is the toy:lobster company.

http://www.toylobster.com/toylobsterweb/products_c64.htm

Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: kd7ota on December 19, 2004, 04:36:15 AM
Or you can even download the VICE emulator and play everything to near perfection.  :-D  :-)


But its cool to see that sites are already hacking up the C64DTV joystick.  :-)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: c64_d0c on December 19, 2004, 11:42:42 AM
great stuff!!!!
________
Nexium Attorneys (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: bloodline on December 19, 2004, 01:36:29 PM
Maybe I've missed the point, but how is this cooler than UAE on a PocketPC?
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 19, 2004, 02:42:53 PM
Quote

DMC12 wrote:
Just a thought for all of you out there using PAL...

Emerson makes a NTSC to PAL converter for $40.00 Model # EVC-1500.  Look around...I see a few that are even cheaper than that...


What people may not know, is that most TV's and VCR's built in the last 5 years or so are capable of recieving both NTSC and PAL signals. Oh, and that french one that's exactly the same as PAL but has a different name coz it's French! ;-) SECAM I beleive.

Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 19, 2004, 02:43:56 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Maybe I've missed the point, but how is this cooler than UAE on a PocketPC?


UAE is an emulator.  This is real hackable hardware.

Much more geekier! :-)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: Dan on December 19, 2004, 02:59:09 PM
Quote

mdma wrote:
What people may not know, is that most TV's and VCR's built in the last 5 years or so are capable of recieving both NTSC and PAL signals. Oh, and that french one that's exactly the same as PAL but has a different name coz it's French! ;-) SECAM I beleive.

SECAM was also used in the eastblock, it got diffrent a colorsystem on a real PAL you only get black and white:-P
But why does UK television recieve the sound on a diffrent subcarrier frequency than all other european PAL systems, whos being difficult? :-P

No wonder the japanese got feed up and did  multiformat-TVs.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: bloodline on December 19, 2004, 02:59:33 PM
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Maybe I've missed the point, but how is this cooler than UAE on a PocketPC?


UAE is an emulator.  This is real hackable hardware.

Much more geekier! :-)


Hmmmm.... Until I see some proper Tecnical documentation, this C64DTV is nothing more than an Emuator running on a single chip computer :-D
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: bloodline on December 19, 2004, 03:01:26 PM
Quote

Dan wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
What people may not know, is that most TV's and VCR's built in the last 5 years or so are capable of recieving both NTSC and PAL signals. Oh, and that french one that's exactly the same as PAL but has a different name coz it's French! ;-) SECAM I beleive.

SECAM was also used in the eastblock, it got diffrent a colorsystem on a real PAL you only get black and white:-P
But why does UK television recieve the sound on a diffrent subcarrier frequency than all other european PAL systems, whos being difficult? :-P

No wonder the japanese got feed up and did  multiformat-TVs.


DIGITAL!!!!!
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: redrumloa on December 19, 2004, 03:03:03 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Hmmmm.... Until I see some proper Tecnical documentation, this C64DTV is nothing more than an Emuator running on a single chip computer :-D


Well however it's setup you CAN hack the hardware. Can you hack a pocket PC and hook it up to a real Amiga disk drive? A keyboard?

The hardware was designed by a well known person in the C= community, the same designer of the C=1. Alot of thought was given to tinkers/hacking. There's even hidden easter eggs in it.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: bloodline on December 19, 2004, 03:09:38 PM
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Hmmmm.... Until I see some proper Tecnical documentation, this C64DTV is nothing more than an Emuator running on a single chip computer :-D


Well however it's setup you CAN hack the hardware. Can you hack a pocket PC and hook it up to a real Amiga disk drive? A keyboard?

The hardware was designed by a well known person in the C= community, the same designer of the C=1. Alot of thought was given to tinkers/hacking. There's even hidden easter eggs in it.


Yeah respect to Jeri :-)

With regards to hooking a PPC to a rael Amiga DD or Kbd... I'm sure I could if I had the time :-D
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: Dan on December 19, 2004, 06:00:06 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
With regards to hooking a PPC to a rael Amiga DD or Kbd... I'm sure I could if I had the time :-D

Just get one with USB-host. :-) The real problem is getting it to boot something else than WinCE :destroy:

C64DTV rocks, imagine if there was a A500DTV!
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: adolescent on December 19, 2004, 06:19:12 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Hmmmm.... Until I see some proper Tecnical documentation, this C64DTV is nothing more than an Emuator running on a single chip computer :-D


It's not an emulator running on a single chip computer. It's just a single chip computer.  And, while I agree that UAE on the PocketPC is cool, as is VICE, etc.  The entry price for the C64DTV is in line with buying a used C64 ($30) and it offers some new features (256 colors, DMA, PC keyboard, etc.) that make it interesting to the C64 scene.  

 
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 20, 2004, 12:21:15 PM
Quote

Dan wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
What people may not know, is that most TV's and VCR's built in the last 5 years or so are capable of recieving both NTSC and PAL signals. Oh, and that french one that's exactly the same as PAL but has a different name coz it's French! ;-) SECAM I beleive.

SECAM was also used in the eastblock, it got diffrent a colorsystem on a real PAL you only get black and white:-P
But why does UK television recieve the sound on a diffrent subcarrier frequency than all other european PAL systems, whos being difficult? :-P

No wonder the japanese got feed up and did  multiformat-TVs.


We invented TV so what we say goes! :-P ;-)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: adolescent on December 21, 2004, 05:30:09 PM
Quote

mdma wrote:

We invented TV so what we say goes! :-P ;-)


You did?  I thought you were from the UK not the US.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: weirdami on December 21, 2004, 05:37:09 PM
US dudes invented television. UKers invented "telly".  :lol:
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: weirdami on December 21, 2004, 05:42:15 PM
Quote
Alot of thought was given to tinkers/hacking.


Jeri has pics on her site of her prototype and it's got all sorts of extra bits that Tulip didn't put on, I guess for reasons of cost. There's a place (solder hole deals) for a second joystick port on the final product, just not the connector itself.

Seems to me like a dream job for someone like Jeri, being ASKED to make this device, so she used her knowledge to make something cool and also put in some cool stuff for hackers and retro-geeks...all of who(m) she probably knows personally. :-)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: PMC on December 22, 2004, 09:51:27 AM
It's a brilliant piece of kit alright, I just hope that Jeri Ellison will see the light and design something Amiga inspired.  

Here's hoping.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: bloodline on December 22, 2004, 01:27:48 PM
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:

We invented TV so what we say goes! :-P ;-)


You did?  I thought you were from the UK not the US.


John Logie Baird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logie_Baird)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 23, 2004, 01:27:40 AM
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:

We invented TV so what we say goes! :-P ;-)


You did?  I thought you were from the UK not the US.


What do they teach you in school over there?  :roll:

Next you'll be telling us the yanks invented the train too!
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 23, 2004, 01:31:17 AM
Quote

PMC wrote:
It's a brilliant piece of kit alright, I just hope that Jeri Ellison will see the light and design something Amiga inspired.  

Here's hoping.


Do Gateway still own all the Amiga patents?

If so, then maybe Tulip could licence these patents to produce a "Commodore AmigaDTV".  No need for any involvment of Amiga Inc/KMOS then I would assume.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: adolescent on December 23, 2004, 03:32:02 AM
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:

We invented TV so what we say goes! :-P ;-)


You did?  I thought you were from the UK not the US.


What do they teach you in school over there?  :roll:

Next you'll be telling us the yanks invented the train too!


What do they teach you over there?  Obviously what was invented by Farnsworth was more like the modern television than Baird's mechanical set.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 23, 2004, 10:59:47 PM
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:

We invented TV so what we say goes! :-P ;-)


You did?  I thought you were from the UK not the US.


What do they teach you in school over there?  :roll:

Next you'll be telling us the yanks invented the train too!


What do they teach you over there?


History.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: weirdami on December 23, 2004, 11:09:46 PM
Quote
Next you'll be telling us the yanks invented the train too!


It's funny, the things you learn from people on the Internet. Years ago, some New Zealand dude was flaming about how NZ invented flight and splitting atoms. Every country has its misinformed patriots (kooks), that's for sure.

I don't think the US invented the train, no, but the US did invent television. The dude (an American) was even on "What's My Line?" (the USA version :-P) way back in the 50's. Apparently he came up with the idea while hoeing rows on his farm.

Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 28, 2004, 11:59:58 PM
Quote

weirdami wrote:
Quote
Next you'll be telling us the yanks invented the train too!


It's funny, the things you learn from people on the Internet. Years ago, some New Zealand dude was flaming about how NZ invented flight and splitting atoms. Every country has its misinformed patriots (kooks), that's for sure.

I don't think the US invented the train, no, but the US did invent television. The dude (an American) was even on "What's My Line?" (the USA version :-P) way back in the 50's. Apparently he came up with the idea while hoeing rows on his farm.



Seriously, John Logie Baird invented the television in 1926 in Soho, London.

John Logie Baird (http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/FINE/juhde/hills961.htm)
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: adolescent on December 29, 2004, 01:03:06 AM
Quote

mdma wrote:

Seriously, John Logie Baird invented the television in 1926 in Soho, London.

John Logie Baird (http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/FINE/juhde/hills961.htm)


And, like I said his "television" was nothing like the modern TV.  And, there were other mechanical devices like his long before.  If you choose to ignore this fact and the rest of history then it's up to you.  But Baird did not invent the television.
 
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: on December 29, 2004, 01:19:31 AM
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:

Seriously, John Logie Baird invented the television in 1926 in Soho, London.

John Logie Baird (http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/FINE/juhde/hills961.htm)


And, like I said his "television" was nothing like the modern TV.  And, there were other mechanical devices like his long before.  If you choose to ignore this fact and the rest of history then it's up to you.  But Baird did not invent the television.
 


And George Stephensons first train (http://www.stevengraphs.com/firtrainbuil.html) is absolutely nothing like the Japanese Bullet Train (http://www.insidejapantours.com/transport.shtml), but he still built the first train.

 :roll:
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: that_punk_guy on December 29, 2004, 02:15:17 AM
Quote
adolescent wrote:

And, like I said his "television" was nothing like the modern TV.  And, there were other mechanical devices like his long before.  If you choose to ignore this fact and the rest of history then it's up to you.  But Baird did not invent the television.
 


Uhhh, I hate to jump on the patrio-wagon here but Baird was throwing television signals across the atlantic years before Farnsworth demonstrated his tube. There is no method implied in the term "television" anyway.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: Waccoon on December 29, 2004, 03:13:06 AM
Quote
Uhhh, I hate to jump on the patrio-wagon here but Baird was throwing television signals across the atlantic years before Farnsworth demonstrated his tube

I thought we were talking about the people who first developed broadcasting standards.  You can't really narrow down such a big invention as TV to just one person, anyway.

Any speculation as to whether the "CPU" in this C64 device is an embedded core from a modern CPU like a MIPS, or a totally custom device?  I would think it's too much trouble to make a new chip from the C64 blueprints, especially of the SID.  We *did* just have a few threads on why it would be practically impossible to remanufacture the OCS / AGA chipsets.

OT:  Oh yeah, I work for the Post Office, now, and I could not *believe* how many QVC boxes we had to ship this holiday season.  I mean, we had six-foot-tall boxes loaded with 'em.  

If you live in New England, they went through my P.O. Annex, and I probably sorted them.  Merry Christmas.  :-D
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: MskoDestny on December 30, 2004, 07:56:37 PM
Quote

Any speculation as to whether the "CPU" in this C64 device is an embedded core from a modern CPU like a MIPS, or a totally custom device?  I would think it's too much trouble to make a new chip from the C64 blueprints, especially of the SID.  We *did* just have a few threads on why it would be practically impossible to remanufacture the OCS / AGA chipsets.


The prototypes appear to be little more than an FPGA and a ROM chip so presumably it's completely custom.
Title: Re: Hacking the C64DTV, it's not your average retro DTV device!
Post by: weirdami on December 30, 2004, 09:43:26 PM
Quote
...George Stephensons first train is absolutely nothing like the Japanese Bullet Train, but he still built the first train.


Wheels on tracks is the same thing. I think what adolescent was getting at was more along the lines of abacus vs. Amiga.