Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: Phoenix on February 19, 2003, 12:44:21 PM
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This question has probably been answered already, but are there OS4 beta copies available and will they work on other formats than A1.
Sorry for the dim question(s) :-?
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No, there are no beta versions available. Even when they arrive, they'll probably only be available to the betatesters who signed up last year or before.
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errrm and ofcourse it wont work on a1 first (as all posts earlier refer to) , it will first be for CPPC/bppc, then eventually for A1 ...
anyway mass distrubution of betas is not good, look at mos for an example...
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That leaves me to wonder why there isnt any beta copies being rolled off???
I would of thought sending some beta copies out to Amiga users would be useful and keep the interest alive.
( I apologise if this is an over simplified view..)
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the betatesters are allready testing the modules and has been doing that for quite a while.
anyway as i said , mass distrobution of betas IS NOT a good idea, keeping something INHOUSE is.
also, betas like mos have doesnt represent anything actually...except for bad stuff (ie it crashed, bla bla bla) , better to let em make it in peace and when the released date is near , thats when you enroll the final testers.
also just to add one thing, os3.5 was mass ditrubuted in an beta form, what happened? ...yes i shall tell you...it got pirated and pirated and people belived it was a final product and ended up giving a #### about it as it was crashy and unstable (which is why its called BETA).
3.9 doesnt have such issues, but its sadly beeing pirated anyway, doesnt make sense...
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@lempkee
Thanks, that really was a good break down for me :-D
...... as always hoping that Amiga will survive!!
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@Lempkee:
I believe the order is
CSPPC
A1
BPPC
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You keep believing that lempkee....maybe it'll be true if you believe hard enough.
MOS is a good example why beta's should be widely distributed. An even better example is linux.
But lets stick with MOS, without generating interest in their product, they wouldn't have any chance of competing at all....after all, they were the underdog that had to prove themselves. Amiga, Inc. had all the cards...the mindshare, the name, the ip...if MOS had just been a little secret project, it would still be unknown.
Amiga, Inc. thinks they don't have to compete, but time will tell how much that arrogance hurts them.
a large beta test program advances the platform by getting the bugs out, number two it gives more people the chance to contribute, and three it gives everyone an idea about the status of the project.
AOS4 was not widely distributed in beta, because hyperions concern that it would be pirated, and furthermore, because it wasn't really in beta at all, it was in an alpha state that would have sent shivers of fear down everyone' spine if they had known just how incomplete it was.
Remember, throughout this long development process it has been 'nearly ready' the whole time.
Typically, you start a project where it is a long way from ready...where it is getting closer to being ready....where it is nearly ready....etc.
since this was 'any day now' for years....they had to hide its real state.
This jubilation over the latest paper features of OS 4 demonstrates what is exactly wrong with the AOS community right now. Amiga delivers nothing except more promises, and whenever the community is a bit down about having nothing, all Amiga Inc has to do, is make another round of promises and everyone is jazzed up and A-OK and ready to wait longer.
'I don't care how long it takes, I'm happy!' was the mantra all day yesterday.
Happy about what, another announcement...and btw, whats this great feature you are getting now...oh yes, 2d graphics!!!!!!! Wooo hooo, except you knew you were getting that all along...but what this does, is makes things easier for hyperion...WOW, good for them, glad their job is easier...what is that suppose to mean....true believers don't even understand the difference between what is important to THEM and what is important to the company....
I personally don't care how easy or hard it is for hyperion to implement 2d graphics...of course I expect 2d graphics, good GAWWWD.
I am so glad I've broken free from that cycle....
MorphOS is shipping its a real product....
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for an unknown product , well what mos is dooing might do it good, but in my eyes i have only read 1 honest review with good points in it , the rest has just been "OH MY GoD IT Suxx" or "WOW Its so impReSSIVE" , ie the general public have no idea what its all about (except for spidey's review).
time will tell if mos is something to bet on, until then i will treat it as what it is, for me aos is all , i have a neighour who use pegasos all day and everyday, i really cant understand the fuzz, but sure eventually i will when there is something in it thats finnished.
what i have seen that is good is stuff like the actual SPEED, but that doesnt tell me much as because os4 aint released and i cant compare os3.9 with MOS (68k ->ppc)
sure mos have some nice things , but that is something all os's have.
its the marketing scheme i dont like and that is why so many pople are thinkng twice , except for that i can share with you that i wont put any money into bplan/genesi/p5/dce ever again unless i have heard any good response from people who aint blind followers or what ever.
the only way mos can enter the market is the way its doing now, slammin down the aos with fud and lies and beeing hostyle to what ever they see if its not saying mos on it, its nothing i like really...i have always been open about it (until some point back) that mos and aos4 should stop this fight, but as we all know...thats impossible.
i dont question the actual pegasos HW , i am questioning the marketing scheme, the developer schemes and the way the markting people are stepping into the masses, if this had been a bigger market then they would have probably been sued long ago and hanged (that applies for BB mostly , but ainc have done its share of bad stuff aswell...no doubt about that)
a last note must be that everyday is there someone who leave, why? , well most amiga people are now grown ups and need to know whats going on, ie developers cant rely on the dates anymore (for both MOS and aos4) and if you are so stupid to start a devteam then you will get spam and fud and lame discussions all over you.
REALLY SAD!
good luck on your mos venture, i might join you in a year or 2 if it has evolved and or if os4 still aint out or its dead (or both) . until then i will keep doing my work.
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last i checked OS4 betas were still beeing tested in parts by several guys on 68k Amigas! might have changed now but i have my doubts.
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According to the few leaks about AOS4...
it's not even in Alpha testing yet, as the complete package has yet to be assembled. Some 68k-based components intended for AOS4 are being beta-tested, but they'll have to be re-tested again once the package is assembled.
Sad really.
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I can understand why it would appear that MOS users are slamming AOS4 for their own benefit, or for mere sport....
but I think it is much more complicated than that. I wanted Amiga, Inc. to succeed. And if I slam them, its because they are such a huge disappointment to me, and that is irrespective of any MOS venture. I was a big Amiga fan, for years.....
But it still isn't criticising them merely for sport....no I think we can look an announcement about 2d graphics support and think, well 2d graphics is not a *bad* thing, its hardly a surprise either....and just put it in perspective.
BTW, I am only considering MorphOS, I can't actually buy even *THAT* just yet....hopefully that will change soon, but until it does...who knows. One thing I can say for sure, is whatever someone tells me, I will tell the world....
As far as NDA's go, never done it, never will, thats not my thing.
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Horse fodder. Define mass distribution of a Beta...
Mass piracy of a beta release is never good, but the more betatesters a product has before it is released, the better the chances of finding and eliminating possible malfunctions.
Of course, good betatesters vs. some schmuck that wants to play with a beta product are two different things alltogether. Until late beta stages it isn;t a great idea to make your software publicly available, as it may cause harm to data on any user's system that attempts to betatest it. (This is why professional betatesters use different machines, or at least different hard discs for every beta OS and from their normal personal system.)
The main problem here is that thus far AmigaOS4 is a lot of Alpha stage code, with very little Beta, and no Gamma what-so-ever. The only Beta software is probably the Kernel and the filesystem. (The filesystem is probably the only part approaching Gamma stages.)
Come on people...they announced it was almost ready how many times now, and still can't do a bloody demo of it anywhere...and no, showing the Kernel loading is not a demo of the OS..it is a demo of the Kernel, which the user should never have to see.
This is simply depressing.
//RC//
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Indoro wrote:
The main problem here is that thus far AmigaOS4 is a lot of Alpha stage code, with very little Beta, and no Gamma what-so-ever. The only Beta software is probably the Kernel and the filesystem. (The filesystem is probably the only part approaching Gamma stages.)
Come on people...they announced it was almost ready how many times now, and still can't do a bloody demo of it anywhere...and no, showing the Kernel loading is not a demo of the OS..it is a demo of the Kernel, which the user should never have to see.
This is simply depressing.
//RC//
How do you know what status the code is?
Where are those PPC systems you were selling to George Lucas again :-?
I don't think that you're in any position to comment on any company.
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Beta test is not public, at least not at the moment. We currently have 77 Testers as of Feb 14th, and we don't take more at the moment. Sorry 'bout that :-)
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> That leaves me to wonder why there isnt any beta copies being rolled off???
The beta testers (al 77 of them) already have their beta versions, and they are testing OS4 since last year (I think since November).
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@Hyperion: I have clear memories sitting on the AmigaONE mailing list in 2001 august. Names changed, nothing else. Hope you will succeed and wishing the best for the development process of OS4. You have a hard heritage but yet you seem to do the same... Hope a product will be the difference.
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Thomas, have a coffee break, Rogue is ahead of you :-D
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I am a proud owner of such beta system....
It´s my main system for daily usage,and....
It rocks!!!!
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I am a proud owner of such beta system....
It´s my main system for daily usage,and....
It rocks!!!!
Too bad you cannot tell us any specifics on the performance
and 'completeness' of the system/OS. That's after all the info
everyone so desperately craves.
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SlimJim
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Rubbish!
Show me where I ever mentioned George Lucas or anything to do with him. Where did that come from off the side lines?
In regards to OS4: I have had conversations regarding what the status was a few months ago, and that didn't impress me at all. My sources are my own, and none of your business. If i prove to be incorrect on this matter, I will humbly aologise to those offended, but I at this time see no need to. There is no apparent progress on this product from 6 months ago, nor from one year ago or better. AmigaOne is more late than anything we have announced, and we have never taken orders from anyone, so pre-sold anything, nor even pre-sold certificates or such garbage as A.I. has done.
If we were out to screw the Amiga community for money as some have claimed, we would have done one of more of these many things. We had people walking up to us with cold hard cash trying to preorder systems, and that money was rejected. There is a value of honor in this company, whether or not some would understand it.
My opionions are valued by some, rejected by others. I really couldn't care less about it. May my actions over the next few months prove otherwise, my words are meaningless on deaf ears or blinded eyes.
In the meanwhile, I bid you a temporary farewell as I go to take care of more important matters than whether or not OS 4 is in true Beta or not.
Namárië!
//RC//
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A beta system, your daily usage machine? Somehow I don;t think so. While I can believe that you are running an 'AmigaOne' system with Linux in daily use, even if OS4 was in beta, it would be most unwise to use it as a daily OS for important projects. Beta testers never, ever use a beta OS for important work or data.
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@Indoro:
that`s what i[edit]thought[/edit] before installing it on my main system.So take it or go away!
Edited:
AS my main language isn`t english,i hope someone understands me...
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Right. Now I'm confused. You said that your Beta system is your main system. Now you say that it is not? What did you mean by
"It´s my main system for daily usage,and....It rocks!!!!"
??
//RC//
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Indoro wrote:
Rubbish!
Show me where I ever mentioned George Lucas or anything to do with him. Where did that come from off the side lines?
Amigactive Issue 23, page 37.
In regards to OS4: I have had conversations regarding what the status was a few months ago, and that didn't impress me at all. My sources are my own, and none of your business.
i.e. you have no source
There is no apparent progress on this product from 6 months ago, nor from one year ago or better. AmigaOne is more late than anything we have announced,
That's strange as Hyperion have only been working on it for a year, and some of the progress made has been publically shown. As for the AmigaOne, I know several people who have one in thier possesion now. How many people own dual G4 Tsunami boards?
In the meanwhile, I bid you a temporary farewell as I go to take care of more important matters than whether or not OS 4 is in true Beta or not.
What you're finally going to pay Dave?
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@Indoro & Ami603
Language barrier? ;-)
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SlimJim
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This is all very interesting.
Ami603 says he is running a Beta of OS4 as his main Operating System.
Judging by his name I am assuming he has a BlizzardPPC (603e)? So this suggests that OS4 is up and running on Classic Amigas with Blizzard cards! And it also suggests that the integration of the 68k emulator (Petunia) is also complete!
Maybe all that is left to do is removing any remaining chipset dependencies (if there are any left) and OS4 will be running in it's entirity on AmigaOne also!
Very good news, I'm sure everyone will agree :).
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@Lando
The thing is, the Petunia webpage disagrees with the statement that the 68k emulator is done. What he might be running, however, is in mixed mode, PPC on the PPC chip, 68k on the 68k chip. Just a thought. But it's still not a real beta.
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Lando wrote:
This is all very interesting.
Ami603 says he is running a Beta of OS4 as his main Operating System.
He may mean OS 4 conponents rather than the full caboodle.
Judging by his name I am assuming he has a BlizzardPPC (603e)? So this suggests that OS4 is up and running on Classic Amigas with Blizzard cards! And it also suggests that the integration of the 68k emulator (Petunia) is also complete!
Maybe all that is left to do is removing any remaining chipset dependencies (if there are any left) and OS4 will be running in it's entirity on AmigaOne also!
Very good news, I'm sure everyone will agree :).
Erm I'd say that was a rather big jump you made to get to that conclusion. :-o What you describe is a second best case scenario. (The best would be if he is running it on a dual G4 AmigaOne with full Altivec support thoughout the OS :-D )
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@Lando
you can't read that much into a person's statement.
Hyperion already said there were 77 betatesters since last year...by your logic this program has been ready for a year.
Getting together betatesters and having a release product are two different things. Remember a lot of the development was just new modules that could have run under OS 3.9 and on 68k amigas....
All we know is that its in some kind of incomplete state and they hope to release it someday. Thats all that can be said, if Ben Hermans wants to say more, he can...he's been posting all day.
He hasn't said any such thing, and how do the true believers think they are benefiting anyone by suggesting things Hyperion never suggested???
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downix wrote:
@Lando
The thing is, the Petunia webpage disagrees with the statement that the 68k emulator is done. What he might be running, however, is in mixed mode, PPC on the PPC chip, 68k on the 68k chip. Just a thought. But it's still not a real beta.
But as long as it isn't MOS it can't be good. Right?
*sigh*
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Less talk more action.
Announcements in the Amiga world are not useful to anyone.
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Read this:
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2003-02-00202-EN.html
It should answer everyones questions. And when you're done, be quiet! ;-)
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Nice and seemingly honest interview.
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@HotRod
Nice to see (at least) some info regarding their project status. I know this has been requested among A1 buyers for a very a long time now. Even I am somewhat interested, but more from a spectators point of view of course! :-P
Off Topic:
"If Amiga goes bankrupt, our license is commuted to an exclusive license to develop AmigaOS further, for any platform, not just PPC. This legally excludes a potential new owner from exploiting the source-code himself.
There is therefore nothing to be gained from buying Amiga's assets in the event of bankruptcy unless the new owner is willing to work with the OS 4 development team in good faith. "
A hypothetical question: What if the new owners instead of working with the OS4 development team in good faith decides to take MorphOS or AROS and proclaim that "the new AmigaOS 5", without using Hyperions source code at all?
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@downix:
> The thing is, the Petunia webpage disagrees with the statement that the 68k emulator is done.
> What he might be running, however, is in mixed mode, PPC on the PPC chip, 68k on the 68k chip.
> Just a thought. But it's still not a real beta.
Your thoughts does seem a bit one-track to me. One-track, and biased to the point where they are just plainly wrong. From the Petunia page:
> When will the emulation be ready?
> "When it is done." :) Ok, it was just a joke... (Sorry Thomas! ;) Technically the emulation is
> ready. Now we are working on the integration into the kernel. It is not a long period process,
> if everything is working as it planned. I cannot tell you more precise interval.
The 68k emulator IS done. It's just not integrated yet. Well, actually it might be, since the above information isn't exactly new. Anyway, I'm finding it hard to believe that you didn't know this. You appear now to be intentionally spreading direct misinformation about AmigaOS4.
Kay
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@Kay
Pssst...
If you haven't alreay, read the interview with Ben Hermans on
amiga.de. There he gives both current development status of
AOS4 and some info on what has been going on with Petunia...
(... now spread the word)
.
secret SlimJim
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:-)
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@Indaro
Are you the same shady con artist that owes hazy dave a shedload of money?
I think anything you say can be taken with a truckload of salt.....
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@ SlimJim:
:-D
Kay
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The 68k emulator IS done. It's just not integrated yet.
68k emulators have been around for almost a decade, its the integration with OS 4, that *IS* the whole question here...and its the whole question for OS 4 too, everything else is just an update to modules a-la 3.5 and 3.9.....not saying those modules didn't need some updating....but this 68k engine is hugely important...they didn't port every module to PPC, so even if someone wanted to drop 68k support I don't think the OS would even run.
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> its the integration with OS 4, that *IS* the whole question here...
I am of course aware of the importance of integrating it into AmigaOS. That doesn't make the statement "the Petunia webpage disagrees with the statement that the 68k emulator is done" any more truthful.
Kay
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uncharted wrote:
Indoro wrote:
Rubbish!
Show me where I ever mentioned George Lucas or anything to do with him. Where did that come from off the side lines?
Amigactive Issue 23, page 37.
No..IIRC it said "We are expecting that our systems will be highly accepted by companies like Spielberg Studios and possible Lucasfilm Ltd. Show me where I made reference to personal dealings with George Lucas, anywhere, ever.
Both companies purchase multimedia products for video editing, etc. We were also anticipating the AmigaDE and a host of promised applications to run on them at that time, none of which will probably ever come out.
In regards to OS4: I have had conversations regarding what the status was a few months ago, and that didn't impress me at all. My sources are my own, and none of your business.
i.e. you have no source
No, I have a source with a judicial gag order on him at the moment. Wait a few weeks. Hyperion might have made progress recently, but nothing is apparent on the surface.
There is no apparent progress on this product from 6 months ago, nor from one year ago or better. AmigaOne is more late than anything we have announced,
That's strange as Hyperion have only been working on it for a year, and some of the progress made has been publically shown. As for the AmigaOne, I know several people who have one in thier possesion now. How many people own dual G4 Tsunami boards?
The Tsunami uses the Pegasos board, and it always has. As soon as dual G4 boards are available, they will ship.
In the meanwhile, I bid you a temporary farewell as I go to take care of more important matters than whether or not OS 4 is in true Beta or not.
What you're finally going to pay Dave?
No, Dave will never get another thin disme from us. He's gotten plenty already, and he still retains a lot of Merlancia design work and IP that we will never see. That physical and intellectual property is worth more than the money he desires to be paid. Furthermore, he had no contracts with us. After being furnished with them he refused to sign them, so he has no legal leg to stand on.
He and his little dog Skal were the reasons we lost $100k to Amiga Inc last January. We have no intentions to give him any more money. He made tens of thousands off of us between May 2002 and December 2002, and never provied us with anything tangeable, not even the paperwork that he supposedly had signed for us with IBM. Nothing what-so-ever except air.
After his little stunt with RWW; and don't think for a second that I'm so stupid that I can't see Count Daveula orchestrating all this through his little RWW Renfield; he'll never see a cent from us again.
Currently he has in his posession prototypes that we purchased, a logic board design that we own, and paperwork that we should have. He was told last year that if he wanted to be paid, that he would have to turn this in as a condition. He refused to do so, and therefore any further communication from him was ignored.
This is the same man that one year ago thought we should dump the Amiga market alltogether to focus on Linux. He's a friend to none of you..this is all a personal vwngence cruisade against us, just like he made on Met@Box and CBM. Maybe you should seek the other side of the story from other employeers that he has had. Apparently everybody is out to get Dave. Ever stop to think that he isn't much of a Saint himself?
I don't know why this has become a topic here. If he had a legal case against us, it would have been filed long ago. He doesn't. Period. I'm sorry we ever hired him.
//RC//
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@takemehomegrandma
What if the new owners instead of working with the
OS4 development team in good faith decides to take
MorphOS or AROS and proclaim that "the new
AmigaOS 5", without using Hyperions source code
at all?
well everybody nows that MOS suposed to be OS4 "the easy path", but this comunity allways chose the hard path, maybe in the future BB's money speak Again and they get Amiga IP and all the BETA work of Hypherion, as we know the AOS4 project will probably still be in BETA :roflmao:
Or implementing the 68k emulation :crazy:
I know people, i know, troll... troll... troll... bla bla bla.
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@DDJPPC
It would be funny to see your reaction if it would be AmigaOS 4.0 that would be released before MorphOS gets off it's beta-state ;-)
@bbrv (if you see this post)
When will MorphOS get released (final release)?
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whats the chances of the beta being out for the A1 in next few weeks?
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A hypothetical question: What if the new owners instead of working with the OS4 development team in good faith decides to take MorphOS or AROS and proclaim that "the new AmigaOS 5", without using Hyperions source code at all?
Surely everybody is then gonna get "the new AmigaOS 5" because it has this magical five letter word "AMIGA" ;)
If I made a licensed (second hand) Amiga toilet paper then everyone out there would buy it for ANY PRICE =D
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Indoro wrote:
uncharted wrote:
Indoro wrote:
Rubbish!
Show me where I ever mentioned George Lucas or anything to do with him. Where did that come from off the side lines?
Amigactive Issue 23, page 37.
No..IIRC it said "We are expecting that our systems will be highly accepted by companies like Spielberg Studios and possible Lucasfilm Ltd. Show me where I made reference to personal dealings with George Lucas, anywhere, ever.
I never said you personally delt with him, if you want to be pedantic about it, change "George Lucas" to ILM. My point is you were critising a company that is actually producing something, when all you have done in the past is spout bullshit about your own companies products (no of which have ever existed except in press releases).
No, I have a source with a judicial gag order on him at the moment. Wait a few weeks. Hyperion might have made progress recently, but nothing is apparent on the surface.
How conveinient.
The Tsunami uses the Pegasos board, and it always has. As soon as dual G4 boards are available, they will ship.
So where are the single processor models that were also announced? And while we're at it where is the CLeo, Apocalype ST, Leopard, Hurricane, Radian, and set-top box also announced???
What you're finally going to pay Dave?
==snip rant on dave Haynie===
I'd love to believe you Doctor, but I can't. Sorry what are you a Doctor of again? Where did you say you graduated from? Nuff said :-D
This is the same man that one year ago thought we should dump the Amiga market alltogether to focus on Linux. He's a friend to none of you..this is all a personal vwngence cruisade against us, just like he made on Met@Box and CBM. Maybe you should seek the other side of the story from other employeers that he has had. Apparently everybody is out to get Dave. Ever stop to think that he isn't much of a Saint himself?
Dumping the Amiga market in Linux is a sound business decision. Certainly in the current climbate, with the market the way it is I wouldn't blame any company for bailing out.
I suppose Dave just made up all those other disgruntled CBM employees as well.
I don't know why this has become a topic here. If he had a legal case against us, it would have been filed long ago. He doesn't. Period. I'm sorry we ever hired him.
//RC//
Surely on the same token had you a case against Dave it'd be filed long ago.
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uncharted wrote:
Indoro wrote:
uncharted wrote:
Indoro wrote:
Rubbish!
Show me where I ever mentioned George Lucas or anything to do with him. Where did that come from off the side lines?
Amigactive Issue 23, page 37.
No..IIRC it said "We are expecting that our systems will be highly accepted by companies like Spielberg Studios and possible Lucasfilm Ltd. Show me where I made reference to personal dealings with George Lucas, anywhere, ever.
I never said you personally delt with him, if you want to be pedantic about it, change "George Lucas" to ILM. My point is you were critising a company that is actually producing something, when all you have done in the past is spout bullshit about your own companies products (no of which have ever existed except in press releases).
There is nothing trivial or pedantic about it. We never claimed to have personal dealings with Lucas, only that we think LFL/ILM would be interested in our products.
No, I have a source with a judicial gag order on him at the moment. Wait a few weeks. Hyperion might have made progress recently, but nothing is apparent on the surface.
How conveinient.
The Tsunami uses the Pegasos board, and it always has. As soon as dual G4 boards are available, they will ship.
So where are the single processor models that were also announced? And while we're at it where is the CLeo, Apocalype ST, Leopard, Hurricane, Radian, and set-top box also announced???
They have been in prototype or some time. We expect that the MCC will be released by the end of this month to the middle of next.
What you're finally going to pay Dave?
==snip rant on dave Haynie===
I'd love to believe you Doctor, but I can't. Sorry what are you a Doctor of again? Where did you say you graduated from? Nuff said :-D
This is the same man that one year ago thought we should dump the Amiga market alltogether to focus on Linux. He's a friend to none of you..this is all a personal vwngence cruisade against us, just like he made on Met@Box and CBM. Maybe you should seek the other side of the story from other employeers that he has had. Apparently everybody is out to get Dave. Ever stop to think that he isn't much of a Saint himself?
Dumping the Amiga market in Linux is a sound business decision. Certainly in the current climbate, with the market the way it is I wouldn't blame any company for bailing out.
I suppose Dave just made up all those other disgruntled CBM employees as well.
I don't know why this has become a topic here. If he had a legal case against us, it would have been filed long ago. He doesn't. Period. I'm sorry we ever hired him.
//RC//
Surely on the same token had you a case against Dave it'd be filed long ago.
[/quote]
No, we have very little we can do about the designs, though retaining the documents and prototypes is theft, and he is comitting multiple acts of libel, and slander.