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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: on February 17, 2003, 09:58:26 PM
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I wonder if I can use my PPC Amiga on broadband?
What hardware do I need?
Something special I should be aware of, like possible difficulties?
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Viking wrote:
I wonder if I can use my PPC Amiga on broadband?
What hardware do I need?
Something special I should be aware of, like possible difficulties?
As I recall, the AmigaOne is supposed to have 10/100 Mpbs hardware on-board. (Any one care to confirm this?) I don't see USB-only broadband modems being an option for alittle while, at least.
The more important problem is wether your prospective broadband provider uses DHCP or PPPoE.
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The short answer is yes you can.
For hardware, you would need an ethernet card to connect to either a cable modem or DSL modem. The version of DSL modem available to you depends on the area you are in usually. In the US, if you request an ethernet based modem, they will give you one, but otherwise you'll wind up with a USB modem which would need drivers. The ethernet card should come with a networking software of some type. My Ariadne II card came with Genesis, and I've got it connecting my 040 based A3000 to the internet through my Cable modem and a Linksys router. Works great.
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As I recall, the AmigaOne is supposed to have 10/100 Mpbs hardware on-board. (Any one care to confirm this?) I don't see USB-only broadband modems being an option for alittle while, at least
You are right about the AmigaOne. But if he has a PPC Amiga already, he can just add an ethernet card and go.
The more important problem is wether your prospective broadband provider uses DHCP or PPPoE.
Exactly. If it is a cable modem, it's standard DHCP, but DSL is usually PPPoE (or PPPoA).
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>PPPoE (or PPPoA).
Its the one thats NOT supported !!
You didn't think we would get it easy did you??
We have to go all the usual rig maroll crap just to get online.... Nothing sensible, like just plugging in a USB modem and its working!!
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Its the one thats NOT supported !!
Right, but he didn't say what kind of broadband. It maybe cable. But if it is DSL and has ethernet on the modem, he can still put a router in there to do the PPPoE stuff. It's the PPPoA that will cause problems. But as someone else pointed out recently, there are some routers now that will even connect to some USB modems.
You didn't think we would get it easy did you??
Nope. It never is for Amiga!
We have to go all the usual rig maroll crap just to get online.... Nothing sensible, like just plugging in a USB modem and its working!!
Yeah, but that is again, only if he is using a USB modem. Which at this point, is not an option for Amiga (well, you can plug it in but you won't have any drivers) :-D
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Herewegoagain wrote:
You are right about the AmigaOne. But if he has a PPC Amiga already, he can just add an ethernet card and go.
Ahh...for some reason I equated PPC Amiga to A1. My apologies. However, as far as hardware for a Zorro-based Amiga, I would recommend the XSurf card. I used one in my A3k and it worked great. Minimal hassle.
Exactly. If it is a cable modem, it's standard DHCP, but DSL is usually PPPoE (or PPPoA).
That may not always be true. PPPoE can be used on a cablemodem system and may be easier to manage that DHCP in some cases. You have to ask before getting the service.
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Herewegoagain wrote:
Yeah, but that is again, only if he is using a USB modem. Which at this point, is not an option for Amiga (well, you can plug it in but you won't have any drivers) :-D
Based on my experiance with USB-connected cable modems, I don't think they're much of an option for Windows, much less Amiga. I had no end of problems including intermittant connection loss and machine crashes when my IP changed. Plus, I was getting tired of stringing my Amiga to my PC with a serial connection. So, once I had had enough, I got ethernet cards for my machines and an SMC router for the bunch. Now, I can honestly say I'm happy with my cable modem.
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My DSL ISP uses direct routing and static IP
address assigning, which made setup a complete
breeze....after I spent countless hours to
discover that my network card was bad.
edit rest
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i have had broadband for about 3 years now, using a nat-ip router , the amiga hw needed is just a network card and a tcpip stack..
i use miamidX , but genesis works fine aswell.
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That may not always be true. PPPoE can be used on a cablemodem system and may be easier to manage that DHCP in some cases. You have to ask before getting the service.
Well, maybe. I've dealt with Adelphia and Time Warner Cable (Road Runner) and they both use DHCP. At least in this area. I've never heard of them offering PPPoE service, but maybe they do, I've never asked either one.
Based on my experiance with USB-connected cable modems, I don't think they're much of an option for Windows, much less Amiga. I had no end of problems including intermittant connection loss and machine crashes when my IP changed.
Exactly. This is the same thing I hear from so many people who are using a USB based cable modem. That's why when people ask my opinion as they are about to get Cable or DSL, I always tell them that which ever way they go, be sure and ask for an ethernet capable modem. It makes the most sense to put a router in there and let it do your firewall, and that makes sharing between a couple of computers a snap at the same time.
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Herewegoagain wrote:
Right, but he didn't say what kind of broadband. It maybe cable. But if it is DSL and has ethernet on the modem, he can still put a router in there to do the PPPoE stuff. It's the PPPoA that will cause problems. But as someone else pointed out recently, there are some routers now that will even connect to some USB modems.
Thanks to all of you, I understand a bit more now.
It's the ADSL kind of broadband. I've asked my ISP, they use the PPPoE-system. And they don't use USB-modems.
So the only thing I need is a network-card and a router? Does it matter what network-card and what router I buy? Is some better than others?
Hardware description:
A-4000 Tower
Cyberstorm PPC 233 / 060-50
CyberVision PPC, 8 MB
66 MB RAM
HD, CD ++
SCSI Wide
Kickstart 3.1
OS 3.9
I also got a PC, a Compaq Armada laptop. It has a network-card. I want to connect both computers to a router if possible.
I don't know much about this, so I got a lot to learn...
Any more comments?
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-D- wrote:
If they use DHCP for IP assigning and PPPoE
for routing (likely) a router is probably a good
idea becasue the current amiga tcp/ip stacks
don't always handle those two very well with
broadband. MiamiDX probably would, but there's
that whole nonsense with that...
"tcp / ip stacks...."
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're talking about, can you or somebody else explain?
Thanks
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If you have an old IA32 computer standing, then you could try to give CoyoteLinux a try ... it works perfectly ... www.coyotelinux.com (http://www.coyotelinux.com)
It can be set up as an DHCP/PPPoE/... client and also as a server it's the best router/DHCP-server/... I know :-D
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"tcp / ip stacks...."
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're talking about, can you or somebody else explain?
Thanks....
TCP/IP is basically a protocol that gets bound to your network card (I'll try to keep it simple) so that it obtains a network number to communicate with other computers on the same network, in this case, the internet. This number is issued by a server from your ISP which is called a DHCP server. Once you connect, the DHCP server issues your computer a number so you can communitcate over this network. It also issues gateway, and DNS numbers to allow proper routing of everything.
It's not important to understand how it all works, as most of this will happen automatically for you with a router. You will only have to set the router to use PPPoE and put in your user account and password info. Normally, this will be all that is required. And you can usually configure the router via a web browser. The router will then act as the DHCP server for all of your computers locally on your internal network. I hope this helps understand a little more.
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Broadband
-Overkill?
Hi, I have some more questions about this topic. This time with the subtitle "-Overkill?".
I have several options when I order broadband, both in speed and monthly capacity (GB downloaded per month).
For me, it's 704 kbps or 1024 kbps that's most interesting. But I ask: How much speed can my Amiga make use of?
Will 1024 kbps be overkill? Perhaps even 704 kbps is? How fast internet can an Amiga handle? (The fastest option is about 10 mbps....) If you're driving on a highway and your car only can go by 90 mph, it doesn't make a difference to you if the speed limit is 100 or 150.
What part of the Amiga is limiting the speed? The ethernet card? The 68060 or the PPC? All these parts? ( I suppose the browser is run by the 060.)
Setup: A-4k-T, PPC 233 / 060-50, + an ethernet card and a router that's not yet obtained.
More hw details is available in my profile.
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Viking wrote:
What part of the Amiga is limiting the speed? The ethernet card? The 68060 or the PPC? All these parts? ( I suppose the browser is run by the 060.)
The limiting factor is the Zorro bus. But, don't worry. You really won't feel limited by the Zorro bus bandwidth. The XSurf card I had in my A3k (RIP) is built to the Zorro 2 spec and I saw sustained download speeds of 150-175KB/s (1200 bps to 1400 bps) on cable modem which is more bandwidth than the 1Mbps connection offers. Just for comparison, my current Win32 and Linux boxen with PCI 10/100 ethernet cards both can achive 300KB/s (about 2.34Mbps). Of course, that must have been on a "really good" network day.
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Yep, its easy.
Just buy a network card for the Amiga, I recommmend the X-Surf as the install does it all for you.
You need Miami or Genesis
And an ADSL router/Modem, make sure it has an ethernet port on it.
The amiga is faster on broadband than my PC!!
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I will try my best to be easily configurable for Internet! :-o
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erol wrote:
You need Miami or Genesis
What's Miami and Genesis?
The amiga is faster on broadband than my PC!!
Absolutely kidding? Is it a 386?
[/quote]
Edit:
I think I have a Zorro 3 controller, but I'm not sure.
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Oki... lets clear up something here...
Well..
1. There is so many possibilities for an Amiga to get on-line these days. PCMCIA (Amiga 600 and Amiga 1200), USB network card, PCI nettworks cards and also Zorro network cards.
2. The speed of a broadband today is ennough, even if you just have 10mbit, but then again if youre in a network or on a demoparty with thousends of PC lamerz ;), 10mbit can hold, but 100mbit is then recommended (only Mediator users can reach this speeds at the moment, if I am wrong.. Shout please..!!!)
3. Miami and Genesis is two tcp/ip stacks for Amiga. Miami is the most advanced one, but also a tcp/ip stack that can bug at times. Genesis is another one. Its the original AmiTCP in GUI form. It dosent have any DHCP function, but else, its a damn stable tcp/ip stack. I never got problems with it at all.
4. I use NextGenTel here in Norway, the speed is 703 down and 384 up. My Amiga keeps the speeds, no losses. It gives even out better performances than my PC in some areas. Especially downloading time.
I hope that this clears some questions..
Regards,
Michal Bergseth, editor of Amitopia
url: www.amitopia.tk (the Scandinavian Amiga mag)
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AmiDelf wrote:
1. There is so many possibilities for an Amiga to get on-line these days. PCMCIA (Amiga 600 and Amiga 1200), USB network card, PCI nettworks cards and also Zorro network cards.
What's your advice for me? I believe I have a Zorro 3 controller (the standard one for C= A4000 040). But I'll probably obtain an USB controller/card anyway, for a new printer.
Hw details in my profile.
3. Miami and Genesis is two tcp/ip stacks for Amiga. Miami is the most advanced one, but also a tcp/ip stack that can bug at times. Genesis is another one. Its the original AmiTCP in GUI form. It dosent have any DHCP function, but else, its a damn stable tcp/ip stack. I never got problems with it at all.
Miami, Genesis, TCP/IP stacks, =protocols. But a protocol, is this the same as a piece of software? Some kind of ROM? Maybe the language is a part of the problem here.
Anyhow, sounds like Genesis is the better one.
A lot of thanks to everybody who's helping me, even the list of questions almost seems endless... Thank you! Your answers is helpful even if they sometimes leads to new questions.
(..Perhaps the Vikings never was meant to bother with internet...)
:lol:
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Viking wrote:
What's your advice for me?
Get a Zorro based Ethernet card such as an XSurf card from individual Computers. Another option would be a used Ariadne. The USB card has nothing to do with this conversation. AFAIK, both the Ariadne and XSurf are Zorro 2 cards but, Zorro 2 cards work on Zorro 3-equiped Amigas in all but a few cases. For example, the XSurf worked flawlessly in my Zorro 3 Amiga 3000.
Miami, Genesis, TCP/IP stacks, =protocols. But a protocol, is this the same as a piece of software?
A protocol is a method of doing something. In the case of networks, a protocol is a method of data transfer. A TCP/IP stack is a software package that allows your computer to use the TCP/IP protocol so you can connect to the Internet. Miami and Genesis are TCP/IP stacks. You only need one.
I recommend Genesis because you'd need something close to a miracle to get Miami registered. Holger Kruse, the author of Miami, doesn't seem to want anything to do with Amiga.
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Genesis works great (although MiamiDX is slightly
faster on my system). With Genesis, you will
definately need to buy a router to handle the
DHCP method of assigning that your ISP uses.
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N7VQM wrote:
>Get a Zorro based Ethernet card such as an XSurf card from individual Computers.
Sounds like the XSurf card is only for Amiga and not likely to find in an ordinary PC-store? But luckily I know a PC-store that supports Amiga -more or less.
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-D- wrote:
>With Genesis, you will definately need to buy a router to handle
>the DHCP method of assigning that your ISP uses.
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Yes, I already realized that I need a router, because I also got a pc and I'll connect both. (The pc needs to download Win updates every second day, otherwise it starts complaining :-P ).
I guess it doesn't matter what router I buy, or you would probably told me already.
But are you so sure that my ISP (Norwegian) use a "DHCP-method"? Whatsoever, I guess you have a reason why you say so.
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[edit]
No wait, this is a misunderstanding. DHCP? -No.
I'll use the DSL kind of broadband, and my ISP use the PPPoE-system. And they do not use USB-modems.
I guess this info should be useful.
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Sorry Viking, I thought you mentioned DHCP earlier
in the thread but I was wrong...I must be getting
tired. :) Chances are they use it, but you're
right they may not. In any case with the router
Genesis is fine, forget what I said earlier.
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Viking!...
There is a lot of network cards actually for Zorro. Not only X-surf. But thats the newest.
There is also:
Ariadne
Ariadne_II
X-Surf
Norway expansion module for HighwayUSB
Hydra/AmigaNet
The downside here, is that there is no 100mbit network cards for Zorro at all. Only 10mbit.
If thats not ennough help :), here is a nice list of Zorro, PCMCIA and other based Ethernet card sollutions for Amiga:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/nic.html
Regards,
Michal Bergseth, editor of Amitopia
url: www.amitopia.tk
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"What part of the Amiga is limiting the speed? The ethernet card? The 68060 or the PPC? All these parts? ( I suppose the browser is run by the 060.)"
I'd say that with 060 it's depending of the bus and ethernet card, but with 040 and lower the cpu comes to limiting factor. I have had 10Mbps line for long time and I have used Hydra's Amiganet1.1 in zorro2 and realtek-based pci-card in Mediator. Both on the same a1200/060@66. Maximum speeds I got with Hydra were around 600kB/s, but with pci-nic in Mediator I can get the full use of 10Mbps line. Maximum speeds are now over 1MB/s in good "weather" ;) Normal speeds are 700-900k/s.
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See my [edit] above.
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AmiDelf wrote:
There is a lot of network cards actually for Zorro. Not only X-surf. But thats the newest.
There is also:
Ariadne
Ariadne_II
X-Surf
Norway expansion module for HighwayUSB
Hydra/AmigaNet
The downside here, is that there is no 100mbit network cards for Zorro at all. Only 10mbit.
If thats not ennough help :), here is a nice list of Zorro, PCMCIA and other based Ethernet card sollutions for Amiga:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/nic.html
And my hardware will not care which one of all those solutions I choose?
I'll go for high-end, but more important is how it works.
So, zorro-3 ethernet cards does not exist, I see.
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Aaaarrghhh...I just realized that IP assigning with
PPPoE is done automatically through PPP...sorry,
once again please disregard my earlier comments. :)
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Right, lets get this sorted. You will need:
- A Network Card (eg X-Surf from Individual Computers (http://ami.ga/))
- A Router
- A TCP/IP package (eg: MiamiDX or Genesis)
Is there anything I've missed?
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Hi all,
Does anybody know if any decent PCI ethernet cards work with either the GREX or Mediator? If so, what's the top throughput you could expect?
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Re: Broadband -Overkill?
by Viking on 2003/2/25 1:11:32
And my hardware will not care which one of all those solutions I choose?
I'll go for high-end, but more important is how it works.
So, zorro-3 ethernet cards does not exist, I see.
....
Nope, there arent. Bad as it is :(.
And for you question about whats steals, is the network cards in Zorro. They need lots of CPU power, much more than PCI for some reason I dont really know.
A simple thing is Ariadne_II for Zorro. On my 68040 I got maximum 300000cps. On my 68060 I really gain all the 10mbit speed. The choice is yours.
Regards,
Michal Bergseth, editor of Amitopia
url: www.amitopia.tk
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Karlos wrote:
Does anybody know if any decent PCI ethernet cards work with either the GREX or Mediator? If so, what's the top throughput you could expect?
The Mediator Driver Guide (http://www.elbox.com/mediator_driver_guide.html) has a list of 10 and 100Mbit cards that have been tested with the Mediator. What you'll get as a maximum throughput is hard to gauge. I'd imaging that with a Mediator and a SharkPPC, one would get some pretty good performance. I didn't find much on the GREX other than a reference to Realtek chipsets.
If you get a Mediator, would you report your findings? I'm concidering a Mediator as a way to resurect my A3k.