Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: carls on December 02, 2004, 09:52:01 PM
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My intention with this post is not to troll or start a flame war, I've just been away from the Amiga news flow for quite some time.
Is AmigaOS 4 released in a full version (non-beta)?
Has the Amiga Inc. vs. (Genesi|Staff|etc.) trials been cleared. Who owns the IP etc. now?
What about the things I hear about Genesi; have they pulled an Amiga Inc. and refused to pay their employees?
Just need a quick recap, thanks in advance ;-)
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OS4 is not yet done. There have been a few updates to the pre-release that make it much better than before and quite usable but the final release is still pending.
There has been deadly silence regarding the A.inc / Thendic court case. I don't know what the conclusion was, if any.
I think KMOS own the IP now. They are not being very public at the moment so noone knows exactly what they are upto.
Genesi seem to be in the news lately. The reasons you will find out by reading up on the matter. Suffice to say that they have some 'not very happy' ex-employees and there is a lot of blame shifting going on. Again the matter is not totally clear. They also seem to be shifting more towards linux and the future funding of MorphOS is uncertain.
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Thanks GadgetMaster!
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carls wrote:
Has the Amiga Inc. vs. (Genesi|Staff|etc.) trials been cleared.
Amiga Inc lost and were ordered to port AmigaDE to Pegasos. Then they appealed against the decision and lost the appeal too.
Who owns the IP etc. now?
KMOS owns the name and the OS. Gateway still own the patents.
What about the things I hear about Genesi; have they pulled an Amiga Inc. and refused to pay their employees?
Basically, yeah.
They're still paying most of their employees, but there wasn't enough money to pay everyone so they made the decision to only continue paying those they considered essential to their business.
Those contractors who weren't being paid, were told that money was short and that they could carry on working on the understanding that they would be paid when the money was available. Seems a few of them got tired of waiting and decided it would be a better idea to hold MorphOS to ransom rather than release version 1.5 .
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Basically, nothing has happened in the past 4 years apart from zealots clinging on to a dying technology.
Amiga realted technology can no longer do anything better that any other recently supported OS.
She has died. Its just that some people STILL dont realise it. :|
Oh yeah, the "market" is stiull full of halfwits that think they can run a company bvased on their outdated belief that "amiga is great" or some other {bleep} like that.
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Minion wrote:
Basically, nothing has happened in the past 4 years apart from zealots clinging on to a dying technology.
Amiga realted technology can no longer do anything better that any other recently supported OS.
She has died. Its just that some people STILL dont realise it. :|
Oh yeah, the "market" is stiull full of halfwits that think they can run a company bvased on their outdated belief that "amiga is great" or some other {bleep} like that.
Wow..... Strong words to say...
If you really don't want to use the Amiga, just don't use it. :-)
Really, i think its just AmigaOS4 getting ready and MOS still having some issues really.
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>Amiga realted technology can no longer do anything better >that any other recently supported OS.
If you succeed in booting WinXP of a 128 MB CF card, let me know.
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HyperionMP : are you suggesting you need 128 Mb of storage space to install OS4 ??? :lol:
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HyperionMP wrote:
>Amiga realted technology can no longer do anything better >that any other recently supported OS.
If you succeed in booting WinXP of a 128 MB CF card, let me know.
I did boot Win XP from a 1GB USB stick. And ofcourse from a CD...
What I would like to try is running 3 1GB USB sticks in RAID5. That would be funny having them redundant :)
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Well, QNX boots from 1 1.44MB floppy (not sure if it's the newest version), and thats an OS done by a REAL company with REAL developer-support and features that won't be in any Amiga-like-OS anytime soon.
Heck you can even run Amiga-SW with the help of QNX-UAE...eh pardon me... Amiga-XL that is :lol:
"Amiga" is a hobby-platform and has been one for atleast the last 5 years, and you'll need arguments much more convincing than "it's small" before you will see any of the OSes being used in commercial applications that go beyond 100 units/year.
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Quite frankly, I won't waste my time trying to convince you of anything.
I do regret very vividly the fact that you did not go Beos as you had promised on ANN all these years ago :)
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@HyperionMP
Don't listen to the naysayers. There are many people who are quietly watching the progress of 4.0 and are ready to jump on board with the final release. Keep up the good work!!:)
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Yes ignore the fool who thinks we cling onto our old technology, he obviously hasn't heard of the A1
Keep up with the good work
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Nothing happened lately. Genesi joined to Amiga Inc camp and refuses to pay, but that is all. Amiga user base keeps shrinking, dealers are disappearing one by one and new developments are announced to the next year. And users keep telling everything is fine.
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@Ben
Me and BeOS ?? You really should stop smoking whatever you smoke....
I never was into BeOS, and the only time I even installed was in early 2003, which prooved it's a pile ......
But I quite clearly do remember hearing "great thinks in the making" posts from you over the last years. All very vaque and all without any real result sofar.
Now instead of just putting me down you could have just told us what would be the selling point of OS4 (outside a few 1000 fanatics), when "it's small" certainly is not one. You can get a dozen of Linux-distros, dedicated OSes, and even WinCE to run on much less these days.
And that is without having to buy an overpriced/underpowered PPC-mobo (or as an alternative negotiate a lincence with a ghost-company in the vain hope that another small company might break their habit and actually delievers the port on schedule).
@Argus
Those people that are "waiting for OS4-final" are the same that:
- Didn't buy an A2000 as they waited for the price to drop
- Didn't buy an A3000 as they waited for the A4000
- Didn't buy an A4000 as they waited for more AGA-enabled SW
- Didn't buy an Escom-Amiga as the waited got the Walker
- Didn't buy 3.5/9 as they waited for Gateway/Amino to realize their QNX/Linux/Intent-dreams.
Saying "I'll buy if xxxx" is much easier than shelling out >1000EUR for a system that still is and will probraly allways be very limited in what one can do with it compared to the much cheaper options.
And how many are their sitting on the fence ? 1000 ? Maybe 2000 ? It would need atleast 10000 people not just buying A1/OS4 but also SW developed for it till one could talk about a profitable market that might bring new proffessional developers to the scene.
@HopperJF
The A1 IS old tech, basicly the same board that MAI failed to commercialze back in 2001. O.k. they packed it into a smaller format added a few gimmicks and maybe they even fixed some bugs, but in the heart of it, it is still tech from 2001, at prices from 1995....
Even if we forget the medicore HW, whats the point of it without adequte SW ?
Add all the stuff that has been announced over that last 2 years, and you'd still get a very thin layer of SW, and that is if all of it would actully be finished, something which is very unlikely for anyone with any experince in the market.
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@Kronos
Well, I'm afraid I was too young (and broke) when Amigas were new. I bought my first Amiga (an A2000HD) right when C= was going belly up around 1994 so I never got a chance at truly new hardware. I bought a used A4000 sometime thereafter so never had the need to buy an Escom machine. I've have upgraded my machines continually with new hardware as it became available (PIV board, CyberstormPPC, GVP TRexx 060, more ram, harddrives, etc.) It's not like a PIV board was revolutionary when it came out (only a Cirrus Logic chip) or for that matter the CybervisionPPC board sitting in my 1991 A3000, but it made AmigaOS work better so I bought it. I admit right now Amiga is suffering from a lack of dealers. But I don't think that Xbox is really 'new' or revolutionary hardware either, yet they're advertising it for this Christmas and it'll sell until something newer comes along. I think I'll soon do the same with a MicroA1 board. Go Hyperion!!!!
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Lastest OS4 beta was showed yesterday at Pianeta Amiga, a lot of people get exited, most didn't belive their eyes.
OS4 prerelease update 1 is rockstable and fast.
I hope that the update 2 is released soon so i can use my usb pendrive (there is already working usb support es mouse, but not crossdos for mass storage) and hopefully Warp3D. Seems that all the MicroA1 boards were sold out in 1 day here, or anyaway only few units remains :-O
Informations on OS4 and A1
http://www.intuitionbase.com/
Lastes OS4 and AmigaOne news
http://www.amigaworld.net/
Screenshots from around the world
http://www.amigaos.dk/
VOTE my screenshot :-P
http://amigaos.dk/modules/bamagalerie3/viewcat.php?id=44&cid=9&min=0&orderby=titreA&show=
@Kronos
Only yesterday MicroA1 units were sold to people only who only owned a 500 or a 1200 in the past, a lot of returning users. You simply want to see what you want.
A1 is expensive but our market is very small and it will be small for a long time imho. Old tech?... bah i'm loosing my time here.
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we need firefox ported....
still waiting on that. whats the news anyone.???
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Stay tuned !!
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@The_Editor
hUM,
what station are you listening to?
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I never was into BeOS, and the only time I even installed was in early 2003, which prooved it's a pile ......
As someone who is using BeOS to reply to this and someone who has used it for quite some time now I can only wonder if you didn't try to use the freebe beos on windows distro...
But regardless BeOS would be familiar to anyone who used AmigaOS3.X and Dopus Magellen 2. with bits of both Mac and Windows thrown in for good measure.
It is an increadible OS to use, slick, reliable and versatile, not to mention scalable.
BTW, Zeta Neo service pack 1 was released a couple of days ago for anyone who is interested. (Zeta is a licenced OS/distribution based on the leaked BeOS R5.1 Dano code).
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@Ikir
I never claimed that something like that wouldn't happen, I just don't see it happen in numbers...
How many A1s were sold at that show ? 10 ? 20 ? Eyetech needs to sell atleast 1000 units per month to turn the platform into something that can be profitable for commercial ports and smaller companies.
Getting uptodate games/apps from big companies would probraly need 10 or 100 times more.....
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If you succeed in booting WinXP of a 128 MB CF card, let me know
And why would I want to do that when I have a DVD/CD drive and a DVD writer and 3 160 GB disks to boot from?
Is there any real world use for that?
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@HyperionMP
Don't listen to the naysayers. There are many people who are quietly watching the progress of 4.0 and are ready to jump on board with the final release. Keep up the good work!!:)
Yes. About 5 of them ;)
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Re: Been away for a while... What's new?
Yes ignore the fool who thinks we cling onto our old technology, he obviously hasn't heard of the A1
Keep up with the good work
What, the computer that's about 3 years behind the times?
Sorry what CPU can it use now? Have they mahaned to use a PPC 970 yet or is that still a pipedream?
My PC cost me less than £700 a a year ago. Since then I have added another couple of HDD's to it and RAID'd them.
It HAS a 64 bit processor, a very stable OS (it hasn't crashed once) 1 GB of RAM and runs at 2.0 GHZ (2.2. when I cant be arsed to hang around. For Graphics it has a 128 MB Radeon 9800 Pro. Name an amiga model that can touch it for performance.
OS4 is a joke. Its been "just around the corner" since 2000 and the antics these "companies" get up to with their posts of user boards {bleep}ing at each other and threatening suing wach other and general unprofessional conduct sums up the Amiga market perfectly.
Now answer this. Who is the real fool here? The one that decided to revisit a website he used to be a regular ages on and was surprised to see people still so overcome with Zealosy they cannot accept it is pointless he thought he would post his opinions on it, or the fool that pays silly money for outdated hardware so he can use outdated software and low quality software on it?
Of course there may be some people here that think Amiga/Morphos/genesi or whoever is still araond is a joke and just "hang out" here th keep up with old friends, but I dont think they make up the majority here.
What can a CURRENT amiga do better than a PC these days thats actually usefull?
No one is interested in being able to fit an OS into 2MB of memory as you can get 1GB for under £100 these days.
Is there anything an amiga running whatever OS can do better that doesn;t merely impress techies but serve no purpose?
I am genuinely curious as to the kind of replies I'll get here. Lets see if I'm right in what I think will happen ;)
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@kronos
Ok, you seem to have written lots of flamebait. Before I answer some of them, I only wonder if you have your so cheap
PC, which you seem to enjoy in every possible way (else you woudn't describe it that deeply), what are you doing on the Amiga forums at first place? Are you trying to save the Amigans, or trying to show them the light? Do you think that you only know what technology use the current PCs, how much they cost or what specs will be available next year? Do you think that only you can read various sites and know what happens. I don't want to piss on your parade, but WE ALSO know.
What, the computer that's about 3 years behind the times?
Sorry what CPU can it use now? Have they mahaned to use a PPC 970 yet or is that still a pipedream?
When the A1000 was released back in 1985 the CPU it used (68000) was already 6 years behind. So what? 68010 hacks were available short after, but the 68010 was old then too.
My PC cost me less than £700 a a year ago. Since then I have added another couple of HDD's to it and RAID'd them.
It HAS a 64 bit processor, a very stable OS (it hasn't crashed once) 1 GB of RAM and runs at 2.0 GHZ (2.2. when I cant be arsed to hang around. For Graphics it has a 128 MB Radeon 9800 Pro. Name an amiga model that can touch it for performance.
Ok, enjoy your cheap 64 bit processor, and the stable OS, but I don't see how this is revelevant to the treat here. Please post this on some PC forum and enjoy the feedback. I can't name an Amiga model that can touch it for performance - does this make you feel superior?
OS4 is a joke. Its been "just around the corner" since 2000 and the antics these "companies" get up to with their posts of user boards {bleep}ing at each other and threatening suing wach other and general unprofessional conduct sums up the Amiga market perfectly.
If the OS4 is joke, I would be happy to see the OS written by you, which obviously wouldn't be a joke. And please release it before 2010.
Now answer this. Who is the real fool here? The one that decided to revisit a website he used to be a regular ages on and was surprised to see people still so overcome with Zealosy they cannot accept it is pointless he thought he would post his opinions on it, or the fool that pays silly money for outdated hardware so he can use outdated software and low quality software on it?
Flamebait.
Of course there may be some people here that think Amiga/Morphos/genesi or whoever is still araond is a joke and just "hang out" here th keep up with old friends, but I dont think they make up the majority here.
Who cares about Amiga/Morphos/Genesi? They aren't around, so what? The AmigaOne isn't produced by Amiga/Genesi, and AmigaOS4 isn't developed by Amiga/Genesi.
What can a CURRENT amiga do better than a PC these days thats actually usefull?
No one is interested in being able to fit an OS into 2MB of memory as you can get 1GB for under £100 these days.
Is there anything an amiga running whatever OS can do better that doesn;t merely impress techies but serve no purpose?
I am genuinely curious as to the kind of replies I'll get here. Lets see if I'm right in what I think will happen ;)
Flamebait. The Amiga for most of the people is a hobby, and hobbyies tend to be expensive, but as long as they are enjoying them, the only fool is the one who tryes to convince the people switching to PC, because it's cheaper, faster or more stable, thinking that they don't know this already and giving his PC as reference.
Ok, going to code some AppleII/SNES stuff now. BYE.
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Minion wrote:
What can a CURRENT amiga do better than a PC these days thats actually usefull?
Two things spring to mind:
1) Fulfill my personal requirement to have a system thats enjoyable to use. That might not be useful to you, but frankly I couldn't care a badgers' tadger - it's useful to me and since your question is subjective depending on viewpoint, that matters.
2) Operate safely online without multiple layers of firewall and antivirus software etc. Being a minority platform has the advantage of staying under the radar of the majority of virus programmers / hackers.
Can you suggest what a CURRENT PC can do better than the machine it replaced a few months ago, other than comforting the insecure owner about the size of his genitals?
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@drHirudo
Mmm, your replying to me, and than continue with quoting minion.
Combined with a nice bouquet of insult, flame-baits and zealotry.... yeah, thats the way !! :lol:
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drHirudo wrote:
@kronos
Ok, you seem to have written lots of flamebait. Before I answer some of them, I only wonder if you have your so cheap
PC, which you seem to enjoy in every possible way (else you woudn't describe it that deeply), what are you doing on the Amiga forums at first place? Are you trying to save the Amigans, or trying to show them the light? Do you think that you only know what technology use the current PCs, how much they cost or what specs will be available next year? Do you think that only you can read various sites and know what happens. I don't want to piss on your parade, but WE ALSO know.
Lots of people here dont. Take some of the previous posts as an example. I was curoius as to what was going on and TBH having dealt with zealots (particualrily linux ones) as bosses and subordinates and I find them both amusing and irritating at the same time.
What, the computer that's about 3 years behind the times?
Sorry what CPU can it use now? Have they mahaned to use a PPC 970 yet or is that still a pipedream?
When the A1000 was released back in 1985 the CPU it used (68000) was already 6 years behind. So what? 68010 hacks were available short after, but the 68010 was old then too.
missed the context. Someone else claimed the Amigaone was modern. Its as modern as a 3 year old computer.
My PC cost me less than £700 a a year ago. Since then I have added another couple of HDD's to it and RAID'd them.
It HAS a 64 bit processor, a very stable OS (it hasn't crashed once) 1 GB of RAM and runs at 2.0 GHZ (2.2. when I cant be arsed to hang around. For Graphics it has a 128 MB Radeon 9800 Pro. Name an amiga model that can touch it for performance.
Ok, enjoy your cheap 64 bit processor, and the stable OS, but I don't see how this is revelevant to the treat here. Please post this on some PC forum and enjoy the feedback. I can't name an Amiga model that can touch it for performance - does this make you feel superior?
its not about feeling superior. Someone asked whats new. I pointed out that not a lot is new and the Amiga has just got further behind the times.
OS4 is a joke. Its been "just around the corner" since 2000 and the antics these "companies" get up to with their posts of user boards {bleep}ing at each other and threatening suing wach other and general unprofessional conduct sums up the Amiga market perfectly.
If the OS4 is joke, I would be happy to see the OS written by you, which obviously wouldn't be a joke. And please release it before 2010.
LOL how is that relevant. I dont care that I cant make an OS. I know where to get one from.
So you should all wait around for an inferior OS just because there's some talented coders working on it.
Now answer this. Who is the real fool here? The one that decided to revisit a website he used to be a regular ages on and was surprised to see people still so overcome with Zealosy they cannot accept it is pointless he thought he would post his opinions on it, or the fool that pays silly money for outdated hardware so he can use outdated software and low quality software on it?
Flamebait.
Of course there may be some people here that think Amiga/Morphos/genesi or whoever is still araond is a joke and just "hang out" here th keep up with old friends, but I dont think they make up the majority here.
Who cares about Amiga/Morphos/Genesi? They aren't around, so what? The AmigaOne isn't produced by Amiga/Genesi, and AmigaOS4 isn't developed by Amiga/Genesi.
Surprised? No. Oh look its all changed hands again LOL
What can a CURRENT amiga do better than a PC these days thats actually usefull?
No one is interested in being able to fit an OS into 2MB of memory as you can get 1GB for under £100 these days.
Is there anything an amiga running whatever OS can do better that doesn;t merely impress techies but serve no purpose?
I am genuinely curious as to the kind of replies I'll get here. Lets see if I'm right in what I think will happen ;)
Flamebait. The Amiga for most of the people is a hobby, and hobbyies tend to be expensive, but as long as they are enjoying them, the only fool is the one who tryes to convince the people switching to PC, because it's cheaper, faster or more stable, thinking that they don't know this already and giving his PC as reference.
Ok, going to code some AppleII/SNES stuff now. BYE.
hobbies are fine. Hell I used to have a BBC master to code in basic. I'm sure some people will laugh at that but TBH I dont care. The point is I wasn't convinced it was the best computer ever and still superior to the Amiga I also had at the time.
Like I said hobbies are fine, spending a bit of money on them is fine. Desperately clinging on yesterdays technology shouting down anyone that happens to not either not share it, owns the competitions software/hardware and generally doesn't support your company like a football team is a bit silly.
Like with the BBC master it outlived its usefullness. I Used AMOS rather than spending hundreds to get an extra few k of Ram or whatever. Then as the amiga outlived its cost effective usefullness I moved onto IBM clones. I fail to see how people can get so attached to an object.
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Karlos wrote:
Minion wrote:
What can a CURRENT amiga do better than a PC these days thats actually usefull?
Two things spring to mind:
1) Fulfill my personal requirement to have a system thats enjoyable to use. That might not be useful to you, but frankly I couldn't care a badgers' tadger - it's useful to me and since your question is subjective depending on viewpoint, that matters.
I suppose. Any zealot can say that
2) Operate safely online without multiple layers of firewall and antivirus software etc. Being a minority platform has the advantage of staying under the radar of the majority of virus programmers / hackers.
Get a decent firewall and a decent virus checker and dont be an idiot. I have never (fingers crossed) been infected with a virus.
Can you suggest what a CURRENT PC can do better than the machine it replaced a few months ago, other than comforting the insecure owner about the size of his genitals?
Oh the classic insult when the person has ran out of wit. Suggest the other person has a small penis. In fact every time someone suggests that it is allways because someone has a bigger yaucht/faster car/bigger house and the accuser is merely jealous. How original. I remember when some tree hugging hippy was starting a debate with Jeremy Clarkson about his taking a 4x4 to some scottish montain. He must have been thinking that gem up for ages. He started with "just because you have a small penis doesn't mean you have to go wrecking the countryside" or something like that.
Why oh why would someone with a small penis get a PC to comfort his insecurity?
The fact that you dish out pathetic insults when someone suggests your "beloved" computer is anything less than the best at everything implies a less than healthy relationship with your computer.
In fact you made several references to genitals there and a "minority platform" as well as accusing someone that doesn't think much of Amigas anymore of having a small penis suggests you have a deep rooted insecurity yourself.
Now the insults can keep flinging back and forth but lets face it its not constructive is it?
I have still yet to see something usefull than an amiga can do that a PC cant. However I can think of many, many things a PC can do that an Amiga cant.
This is to be expected. The Amiga has had no proper development since 94 and has only had half arsed development as a platform between then and 2000. Since 2000 it has merely being ameteurs (not an insult - an observation) with the misguided belief that the Amiga is somehow better than everything else even now.
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With respect, this thread has gone so far astray that it bears locking. If you wish to continue the various conversations, please open new -- and related -- threads...
Wayne