Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: specfreak on February 17, 2003, 02:07:16 PM
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Don't suppose anyone knows when OS4 is comming out ? I've had my cash ready for ages and want to get it up and running on my A1200(t):
http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~as0aba/MyAmiga/MyAmiga.html
April the 1st perhaps :-D
Regards
Andy Barker
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"When it's ready" :-D
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Nobody knows. I will hazard a guess and say not for a good while yet. Optimistically, I'd say summer. Pessimistically, I'd say early 2004. But I have about as much idea about it as you do.
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Well, the last I heard about the subject said sometime in late March. I believe I remember hearing something about it at AmiWest this year, but they probably have made statements to the contrary since. I.E., "when it's ready."
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Well.. as I metioned in another Thread, I noticed KDH (http://www.kdh-amiga-shop.com/catalog/default.php) expects OS4 to be on sale 28-2-2003.....
But offcourse we can't be sure :)
Regards,
Onno
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Schtop, Schtop - this blue movies not ready yet - wheres this guys moustache? Why is he actually fixing the fridge?
OS4 - we only let you use it when its ready! :-)
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@ohno
If you had checked things out before posting someone had told to you about the fact that KDH has been selling those OS4:s since last september or so. and allways 'release date' has been just couple weeks away. So this much be their 10th release-date by now.
Actually it would not be bad, if they had something to sell. But based on whatever information I have collected it's not too likely to happen now. But we'll see.
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OS4 - we only let you use it when its ready
You have been watching to many TV adverts :-)
Can't be to long though, i'd go with a public release around April ish, Just don't make it April 1st guys, noone will believe you ;-)
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June 2003 is my guess.
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If it takes till 2010.. then Amiga can tie in the AmigaOS4 release with the Winter2010 Olympics in Vancouver BC Canada (2 hours drive from AmigaInc headquarters).
Now that would be COOL to see!!!
:-D
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If I was you I'd give up on OS4. I doubt it will be out this year, at least not in any usable form. And if it comes out later than that, there won't be any users left to sell it to.
I gave it until the end of last year before giving up and selling my PPC Amiga 4000. Ben Hermans promised OS4 for CSPPC before the end of 2002, so I set that as my deadline.
AInc said CeBit will be the big relaunch of the Amiga desktop platform and OS4, but now it appears they havent even booked a stand...
AInc is dead in the water. They haven't got two pennies to rub together and no products to sell to generate revenue.
Stop waiting and start doing. Make a clean break - get yourself a nice Pegasos and MorphOS and start having fun again. It's real, its working, and people are using it right now.
Sure, some people will tell you to wait "just a few more weeks" and that Pegasos isn't a "real Amiga" and that MorphOS isn't AmigaOS. Well, if you want to wait forever just so you can have the "Amiga" name on your case then go ahead.
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Nice Amiga. Nice wb but you should use the same iconset for all your icons:-)
if you want visit www.iksnet.it and then click on "AB-Glow Icons Support Page" on the left, you can download a big collections of icons in glow format.
Ah!
OS4 will be relased 23/04/2132 :-P
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Okay, Time to open the betting pool....
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@specfreak
Some informed comment here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amiga_sa/message/13754
Cheers,
JaXanim
http://waveguide.v-2-1.net
(For thoroughbreds)
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I wouldn't give up on OS4.0 at all. I'm sure it is just round the corner, it just happens to be a very long street!
:-)
I like the sound of OS4.0, the feature list looks good. But I don't have any pressing reasons to aquire it instantly. I can get by with my old 3.9 tower and my PC for the time being - At least until OS4 finally arrives.
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That was quite interesting...
So no march, no april, no predictions, no nothing.
Oh well, everyone has their limit, mine has been
reached....
only trouble is the pegasos is not actually in stock at the moment.... sigh, but soon I'll be moving on...finally...time to have fun again, as they say.
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If that is the real reason, I'd like A inc to make an official announcement. That said, if they did it could be twisted around in all sorts of ways.
Anyone have any idea how long it would take them to get the money?
I wouldn't give up on OS4.0 at all. I'm sure it is just round the corner, it just happens to be a very long street!
I'm prepared to wait a year or so, if it comes to it...
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Hmmmm... Reading that thread makes bad reading.
It never rains in Amiga Land....... Only Pours..
It would be nice to have some kind of statement about the current situation I agree.
:nervous:
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If that is the real reason, I'd like A inc to make an official announcement. That said, if they did it could be twisted around in all sorts of ways.
If that is the real reason,'We have no money and we aren't paying our contractors'....then how/why do you think that would be twisted?
Thats outrageously bad... it doesn't need twisting...it stands on its own merits as being incredibly, stupendously, seriously...bad bad, capital B bad.
More likely, they will send out some impossibly cryptic pr message, and that will have to be 'twisted' (aka clarified).
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specfreak wrote:
Don't suppose anyone knows when OS4 is comming out ? I've had my cash ready for ages and want to get it up and running on my A1200(t):
http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~as0aba/MyAmiga/MyAmiga.html
April the 1st perhaps :-D
Regards
Andy Barker
Mid-late 2004 at the earliest.
Won't matter; there won't be a user base to purchase it by then.
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They have no money for development of OS4? They #@*$^ ripped $50000 of loyal amiga users...
What a bunch of loosers AInc is... always have been, always will be...
Amiga is DEAD and has been dead since 1992. I really hope they go down really soon (the sooner the better) as it is obvious that they aren't making anything out of it.
btw. i am talking about Amiga Inc only.
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I've asked that Eyetech comment on the Amiga_sa post
'cos it impacts on the sale of AmigaOne. As noted, in the
post, who wants an A1 just to run Linux!
I've also been reminded that Alan is in the Far East this
week, so there'll be no comment from Eyetech till next week.
I hope this gets sorted OK.
Cheers,
JaXanim
http://waveguide.v-2-1.net
(For thoroughbreds)
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@B00tDisk
:-D :-D
And now guess with whom you share your avartar (and I though you were).
:-P :-P
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Someone in another thread said Fleecy had anwered an
e-mail mentioning a soon-to-come statement from AInc
concerning what's going on, including a statement on the
status of AOS4.
I don't really see the reason for people lashing out at
AInc in every situation (hoping they will go bancrupt etc.)
They have done some seriously bad PR stunts, agreed. But
do anyone actually think they wanted things to turn the
way they did? Don't you think they too wanted to have
AOS+DE out already two years or so ago?
Apart from people having genuine claims (like that coupon
nightmare, and even there there are different views), I find
it rather childish when people say they have been
"betrayed" or "cheated"by AInc. If these rumors (note
*rumors*, so far at least) are true, I feel sorry for AInc. I
can only imagine the frustration they've been through
the last years.
As for me, I have enough computing power between my
A4000 and my Linux box to afford to wait for the fabled
AOS4. As a looong time Amigan, I don't like the situation
(who does?), but I won't get desperate either.
I won't give up until Hyperion makes a statement that they
have put the AOS4 project on ice indefinately. Hopefully
that will never happen though.
.
SlimJim
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From the latest rumours i have heard its not out until atleast end of 2003.... SIIIIIIIIIIIGH :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x
Which means the AmigaONE hardware will even be more outdated by then.. i think this is the final stake in the heart for the amiga... oficially dead.... no way it can have a chance to survive now.
just lies and more lies... Was supposed to be done a long time ago.. Then amigaINC promised they will launch it in march 2003, but would probably be avaliable before that time... But now end of 2003 at the earliest??? fu*k... And i bet they will delay it even further...
And yeah, most of os4 was supposed to be 99% done months ago ;) i remember seing in the status update that was posted...
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I don't really see the reason for people lashing out at
AInc in every situation (hoping they will go bancrupt etc.)
They have done some seriously bad PR stunts, agreed. But
do anyone actually think they wanted things to turn the
way they did? Don't you think they too wanted to have
AOS+DE out already two years or so ago?
Apart from people having genuine claims (like that coupon
nightmare, and even there there are different views), I find
it rather childish when people say they have been
"betrayed" or "cheated"by AInc. If these rumors (note
*rumors*, so far at least) are true, I feel sorry for AInc. I
can only imagine the frustration they've been through
the last years.
Now come on, that would be fair now wouldn't it, putting the old shoe on the other foot. ;-)
I have to admit I do agree with you on this, while AInc have done some bad PR (name me a company that hasn't), it isn't as if they have planned for all this to go wrong, or the Dot.COM bubble to burst. It is unfortunate yes, and maybe it could have been handled better, but to say "I hope AInc go bankrupt etc (which would prob kill off any chance of getting OS4+) is a bit overkill, no pun intended. :lol:
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Amiga inc have brought it on themselves,
How can anyone take a company serious what can not do simple things like sorting out t-shirts,
I wonder if those guys are knitting them.
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@Jumpship
Now come on, that would be fair now wouldn't it, putting the old shoe on the other foot.
Can't have that, now can we? ;-)
@et al
At any rate, I find the statement that AInc "hasn't yet
payed Hyperion for completing AOS4" a little odd. I was
under the impression that Hyperion owned the full rights to
AOS4. In fact, Ben himself has said that because of this,
AOS4 could go on, even if worst came to worst and AInc
folded. The fact that Hyperion has ALREADY had to do
some other contractual work "on the side" (thus slowing the
development of AOS4) has always indicated (to me) that
they carried all the economical risk themselves. Isn't this
what so many have bashed AInc for, they not having a
financial stake in development?
And now suddenly, AOS4 need the money from AInc:s
Microsoft deal to be completed. Either something has
changed a lot behind the scenes lately, or something is
wrong with this *rumor*.
.
SlimJim
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I don't really see the reason for people lashing out at AInc in every situation (hoping they will go bancrupt etc.) They have done some seriously bad PR stunts, agreed. But do anyone actually think they wanted things to turn the way they did?
This is the information age. So, where's the information? One executive update every six months doesn't cut it in this market. Amiga is either broke or totally absorbed in a special project with TAO and can't realease any information. In either case, Amiga Inc. really has nothing to do with AmigaOS anymore. If they do, they sure don't show it.
I agree with z5. The early orders, the coupons... and then the damned silence. This runs far deeper than just a bad PR stunt. I bought the SDK and was immediately disturbed by the lack of anything but recycled JAVA apps already available to the PC world. There wasn't much VP in there, never mind DE. Serves me right.
Anyone want to buy a Win32 SDK? ;)
Nobody can speculation on the situation at Amiga, since nobody is saying a peep, at least not officially. All I know is that the way they run their business is amateurish, and with these kinds of business practices, I doubt they'll produce any software that will prove useful to anyone.
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>I was under the impression that Hyperion owned
>the full rights to AOS4. In fact, Ben himself has said
>that because of this, AOS4 could go on, even if
>worst came to worst and AInc folded.
Well that was the case when Hyperion still had
ThridParty projects that gave them a little money.
However it's likely that Hyperion can't afford to work
on OS4 for several months and pay all their full time
developers (3) with own cash. Therefore they have
to do Thirdparty projects which then delays OS4.
Therefore it *could be* that Hyperion asked Amiga
Inc. "Ok, if you want OS4 out "soon", pay us, or it'll
get delayed even more". Maybe Amiga Inc. has then
accepted this new deal, but because Amiga Inc. isn't
able to pay them Hyperion has to delay OS4. I'd like
to remind you that for the very same reason (Amiga
Inc. not paying H&P) OS4 has already failed one
time. Wouldn't wonder if history repeats.
On the other hand Mr Gutjahr said that someone of
Hyperion informed him that OS4 is progressing well
today, so that he comes to the impression that
Amiga Inc. is telling BS. SO I guess it's best just to
wait for Cebit and the OS4 version that Hyperion
announced to show there. March 12th-19th will be
an interesting week :)
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Thats exactly my thoughts, just had someone on my IRC channel that didnt seem to understand and kept pushing the rumor, and yes he is a pegasus owner...
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>Thats exactly my thoughts, just had someone on
>my IRC channel that didnt seem to understand and
>kept pushing the rumor, and yes he is a pegasus
>owner...
I only see Pegasos owners around here... But
anyway quite interesting that you're saying that Paul
Qureshi and the HAUG are only spreading rumours
with their posting (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amiga_sa/message/13754).
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Read this interview with Thomas Frieden.....
interview (http://os.amiga.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1583)
This was posted on 13th feb, the emails the interview is based on were made between the 22-27 January.
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@zacman:
On the other hand Mr Gutjahr said that someone of Hyperion informed him that OS4 is progressing well
If you're gonna quote me, do it correctly please ;-)
What I said was that I spoke to someone at Hyperion who's estimation was far more optimistic than "OS4 may well not be ready at April 26th" (that's what Fleecy is said to have stated) and I also noted that "OS4 is ready" can have a lot of different meanings in this context (ready to demonstrate, ready to sell...).
so that he comes to the impression that Amiga Inc. is telling BS.
I simply doubted that Fleecy really stated that "OS4 is delayed because Amiga Inc. can't pay Hyperion". If he did, he is telling BS IMHO, but I doubt that he did.
I can imagine a reason why Fleecy mentioned Amiga's lack of money to an Amiga user (they're still not listed as a Cebit exhibitor...), but that reason is certainly not a potential OS4 delay.
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maybe they are actually in finishing stages...
In a little post, one of the Frieden brothers said that there was quite a lot to report on the OS4 development.
Maybe they aren't taking any risks and will remain completely silent until it is completely finished.
time will tell...
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Correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that it was stated on a show last your that OS4 would be out before x-mas 2002. Could have been the Cyberstorm version. But something like that was said.
Coder
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>>Correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that it was stated on a show last your that OS4 would be out before x-mas 2002. Could have been the Cyberstorm version. But something like that was said. <<
Yes thats true, but they also said that they'll release OS4 just 3 month after starting development on it (November 2001).
However, it seems that OS4 is actually on hold due to non-payment by Amiga Inc. Refer to the link zacman provided..
(before anyone asks: Yes it was announced that Hyperion will release it by themself while Amiga Inc. only has an option to buy it back after)
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> but that reason is certainly not a potential OS4
>delay.
Well from the given information in the interview with
Thomas Frieden, it's not unlikely that the contracts
have changed:
"It[OS4]'s *not* our product. We're just developing.
(...) Remember that Hyperion Entertainment is only
the developer of OS4. (...) believe me that I am not
very happy with what Amiga does from time to
time... However, AmigaOS is still theirs,
we are only developing it. (...)"
So no wonder he's not happy with Amiga when they
don't pay Hyperion.
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SlimJim wrote:
@et al
At any rate, I find the statement that AInc "hasn't yet
payed Hyperion for completing AOS4" a little odd. I was
under the impression that Hyperion owned the full rights to
AOS4. In fact, Ben himself has said that because of this,
AOS4 could go on, even if worst came to worst and AInc
folded. The fact that Hyperion has ALREADY had to do
some other contractual work "on the side" (thus slowing the
development of AOS4) has always indicated (to me) that
they carried all the economical risk themselves. Isn't this
what so many have bashed AInc for, they not having a
financial stake in development?
And now suddenly, AOS4 need the money from AInc:s
Microsoft deal to be completed. Either something has
changed a lot behind the scenes lately, or something is
wrong with this *rumor*.
.
SlimJim
Perhaps we mis-read the original statements. or we did not dig too deeply into the various "deals" AInc's gotten involved in. Perhaps it was all a big lie to appease the masses.
But the point comes down to, AOS4 is not coming, for whatever reasons. Possibly Amiga, Inc was contracting Hyperion (which would fit with the fact that all docs on the project are on amiga.com and not hyperion's homepage) the whole time, with a clause to allow them to take-over should AInc fold. So an interesting situation we're in.
So guys, how much you willing to wager on AOS4 being ready end of March?
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However, it seems that OS4 is actually on hold due to non-payment by Amiga Inc
Huh? Why do Amiga Inc need to pay anything?
(to the tune of the Monty Python 'SPAM' song) FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD,FUD.
This current environment is like being surrounded by fish - 3 minute memories all around me.
Christ sakes people. Steffen Heuser(MagicSN) only said as recently as Feb 1st that he was working on OS4 as well as the Friedens and was working full-time on the project. A call come out recently for translators for OS4. WTF would we need translators (with signed NDA's), if the OS was suspended?
-john
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Maybe you should read the links i refer to..
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amiga_sa/message/13754 )
please also keep in mind that i directly said, that following previous announcements Hyperion would work independantly from Amiga Inc. Which they do not.
The Fact:
"However, last week Amiga made it clear that OS4 may well not be ready by April 26th [...]. They are still waiting for money from their Microsoft deal, with which to pay Hyperion to work on OS4. In the mean time, Hyperion must concentrate on other projects to bring money in."
and finally the excuse:
"They delay, in case you are interested, is supposedly because the manufacturers of the cartridges that the Amiga Anywhere games are to ship on has not actually manufactured any yet."
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Well.. I'll expect AmigaInc to spin something positive even from this. :-D
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logain wrote:
[...]
The Fact:
"However, last week Amiga made it clear that OS4 may well not be ready by April 26th [...]. They are still waiting for money from their Microsoft deal, with which to pay Hyperion to work on OS4. In the mean time, Hyperion must concentrate on other projects to bring money in."
[...]
No. Not fact. When this is written by the hand of Fleecy
himself, it can be considered fact. When Ben Hermans
states this, it can be considered fact. For now, it is a
statement on a mailinglist. It's a rumor.
It's a disturbing rumor, one might even call it a unusually
well credited rumor.
But a fact, it is not.
.
SlimJim
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I just did a Google search for CeBIT (English) and seached CeBIT's Web page for "Hyperion " Search returned:
Found 1 of 1
Hyperion Solutions Deutschland
GmbH
Location: Hall 4, Stand A04
Partner at: IBM
D-70569 Stuttgart
Hall 4, Stand A04
Bob C.
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@BobC
Unfortunately, that's another Hyperion. "Ours" is called Hyperion Entertainment - an important distinction.
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SlimJim
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...And then instead of posting it here you used Google once again to search for "Hyperion soloutions deutschland" ??
I you had done that you would have come up with this: http://www.hyperion.de/dach/
Which is not related to "our" Hyperion in any way... :-(
(EDIT) Arrgh! Slimjim was faster:-)
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@Troels_E
> (EDIT) Arrgh! Slimjim was faster
Damn right I was.
.
SlimJim :-D
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And if BobC had checked other threads on Amiga.org he could have noticed this Cebit has been discussed thru. And yes, even there some people got confused with those different companies with similar names. :-D
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1234 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1234)
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Also keep in mind that Hyperion drivers are made by VIA. ;-)
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hehe
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OS4?... I thought that was supposed to have come out 2 years ago? huh? did I miss something :P... ohh it'll be out this year FOR SURE!!!
"why" you ask?... well because ...
"because of what" you ask?... just 'because' ...
'just because of what' you ask?... well thats a secret and we cant divulge such secret information... but we will tell you this! ... 12 months after OS4 comes OS5...
(all sarcastic opinon not to be confused with the truth or fact)
that about sums it up...to the greater question 'when is OS4 comming out' ... the best answer is a question mark (?)... because there is no definite answer... history proves this I believe.
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It's like they added injury to irony.
BobC wrote:
I just did a Google search for CeBIT (English) and seached CeBIT's Web page for "Hyperion " Search returned:
Found 1 of 1
Hyperion Solutions Deutschland
GmbH
Location: Hall 4, Stand A0 4
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .^^^
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . S
Partner at: IBM
D-70569 Stuttgart
Hall 4, Stand A0 4
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^^^
.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . S
And IBM, a PPC manufacturer, to boot!
Amiga! AOS4.0 needs killer apps, but AOS4.0 IS the killer APP, it's up to US, what happens to it!
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I work with the Dude that started this Topic.
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Once the Amiga-like skin for Linux has been completed, and they have finished bodging around with the look of the GUI. ;-)
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Well, it's from a show organising user group that
cancelled their show (WOA-SE) cause of the
aforementioned reason. It can't be totally plasmatic.
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its not "When it's ready",
rather "when its done", wich makes adifference to me ;)
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You guys need to come over for a beer and check out the OS4beta, maybe it will soothe your troubled minds.................
BTW - You bring the beer :-D :-D ;-)
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Ohno wrote:
Well.. as I metioned in another Thread, I noticed KDH (http://www.kdh-amiga-shop.com/catalog/default.php) expects OS4 to be on sale 28-2-2003.....
But offcourse we can't be sure :)
Regards,
Onno
Well its now march 1st so that cant be right.
march 28th maybe?? :-?
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AmiGR wrote:
Well, it's from a show organising user group that
cancelled their show (WOA-SE) cause of the
aforementioned reason. It can't be totally plasmatic.
Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.
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Rogue wrote:
Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.
Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?). Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.
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/JoannaK has just secured another 100 posts to this topic ....
/me has to do his share :
Party on :-P
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JoannaK wrote:
Rogue wrote:
Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.
Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?). Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.
Where did HJF call Ben Yoris a liar? Furthermore, I was under the impression that Ben said there was no chance of OS4 before the end of the year. Last time I checked we were only two months into the year. So you've lost me as far as proof goes.
So could you please explain what you mean, or are you just talking pish? Hm?
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Kronos wrote:
/JoannaK has just secured another 100 posts to this topic ....
/me has to do his share :
Party on :-P
:lol:
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@Wilse
O.k. that didn't work ....
Lets try this:
Dear easter-bunny .....
... nevermind, just tell it Santa !
:-D :-D :-D
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JoannaK wrote:
Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?). Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.
What Ben Yoris said was that it wouldn't be ready before the end of this year (2003), which was a call that he is not competent enough to make.
Moreover, he was telling stuff from an internal mailing list, even if it was true (which I am denying here).
If it proves to be the truth is going to be obvious only at the end of this year. Even you should recognize that "end of the year" means December, 31st, not March 1st, unless you are using a different calendar.
Ben only said that OS 4 development is slowed down. Your vivid imagination is adding pieces, but that isn't something new, seeing how much FUD you like to spread.
That "lack of talent" was a really uncalled-for insult. I really wonder how low you can get, and you always manage to surprise me in your arrogance. I don't know what problem you have with Ben Hermans, or with Amiga, or with me, but only little brain or high degree of alcoholic intoxication can justify an insult directed at 30+ developer, 70+ beta testers and a similar number of translators that work for very little money, a team that contains the some of the brightest heads in the Amiga developer community.
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@Rogue
The community is fed up with broken promises.
Also AmigaOS4 schedule has failed several times and people are very fed up with that too.
Also I am fed up with lies and tired of waiting. Please be open in the communication towards the community.
Deliver a beta/BETATESTER ASAP rather than forever trying reach perfection on one go...
-KimmoK
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JoannaK wrote:
Rogue wrote:
Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.
Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?). Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.
I have no problem with you interpreting Ben's interview in
your own way, as well as allowing Ben Yoris estimate of
"end of the year" to be "proved" right already in march.
It's odd behaviour, yes - but it's your right and if nothing
else you are at least consistent.
But do you really have to sow insults with that as well?
Reason your posts, Joanna - as we have seen you
could do in the past. You are rapidly turning into (or at
least apperaring as) a bashing troll and I don't think that
was your intention.
.
SlimJim
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ksk wrote:
@Rogue
The community is fed up with broken promises.
Also AmigaOS4 schedule has failed several times and people are very fed up with that too.
I am fed up with insults, lies, false rumours. Don't pretend that there is only one side that is always to take the blame.
My only promise so far has been that I, like everyone else in the team, am doing my best to get the job done. So far I consider myself, like everyone else in the team, in compliance with that promise.
If you think that this is easy for us, you are completely off the mark. We have to make sure that we can survive, and I'm sorry to say it but I, myself, come first, and the community second. I need to cope with my personal living, and my personal bills. The community is not going to pay them. Until such time, I can only try to do my best, but everything has limits.
Also I am fed up with lies and tired of waiting. Please be open in the communication towards the community.
Are you implying that I am lying? You know that release dates are estimates. I invite you to look around in the IT business for release dates that have actually been kept.
Deliver a beta/BETATESTER ASAP rather than forever trying reach perfection on one go...
Just for your info, there is a team of 70 beta testers already. Just because person X or person Y isn't part of it doesn't mean there isn't. We are not going to conduct a public beta test, if that is what you mean, and there will only be a final product. Just because there is a public MorphOS beta version doesn't dictate that we have to do the same. We won't.
As to "trying to reach perfection", we are trying to reach a certain degree of it, because otherwise certain people I know will start bitching again. It will be "oh, this is all they came up after over one year". All of us believe in that project, and when we finally get it out, we will be saying "this is our project, and yes we're proud of it".
I am sorry, I don't make up release dates. And the cold hard fact is that estimating release dates is more of a gamble than anything else, and most certainly so in the Amiga market, a market that is not able to sustain itself at the moment. The result is that we have to look for other sources of income. Yes, this does delay things. No, they never came to a complete halt because there is always at least one of the core team working full time on it.
Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to proclaim that OS 4 will not be out this year. That is something that can only be said on December 31st, not a second earlier.
Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to suggest that there is a bunch of idiots working on the project, like Joanna tried to make it appear.
Most of all it doesn't give certain people the right to suggest that another company would have done better. Chances are that another company would have contracted similar people. mostly because they are the best you can get on the Amiga market.
Now you know what I am fed up with.
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@Rogue
I did not mean to critisize you personally. I was talking more about the situation that Hyperion is facing.
(other companies, like Eyetech, AmigaInc and Genesi have their own "lack of community trust" issues etc.., of which (IMHO) some are far bigger than yours)
But still.
I work at the IT business myself. I have been in well over 10 huge SW+HW projects of which only one was released absolutely in the schedule (and no service affecting bugs were found by customer).
The beta version of AOS4 for A1 would trigger me in buying A1G4XE HW ASAP.
If there will be no public beta release, is it still possible to become a member of that beta tester team of "AOS4 for A1"?
I personally respect you for that you took AOS4 job even though it means personal sacrifices.
I observe these things as an outsider and I see a lot of things being said that are not very smart PR wise. I know it's hard to be professional with things when there is some groundless bitching, but still...
Anyway, good luck in your immense job task at making the world greatest OS even better. :-)
br
-KimmoK
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Within 6 months or I am selling up and getting a cool iMac
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Good riddens to you 'AmigaOne' peep.
:quickdraw:
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@all
Calm down everyone !!
OK, OS 4 is delayed - so what ?
All developers have other priorities too, some personal/financial etc.
The Amiga developers are trying their best - that is ALL I ask :)
I personally need more cash for the A1, so its good for me.
The Amiga I use now is enough for my needs, the development of OS 4 is NOT costing me anything - so why should I complain ?
Back in 2000, we had NO AmigaInc, NO new OS 4 nothing - this situation is much better than that !
Geez, chill out ladies and gents.
You think your life is dependant on OS 4 !!!!
I still remember Petro saying "to restart production of A1200s will cost 100M DM"
Were talking big money here.
C= billion dollar company
Escom billion dollar company
Gateway billion dollar company
ALL DID NOT MAKE IT
yet, AmigaInc,Hyperion & Eyetech -with funds in the thousands (if that) are still around.
I am very suprised they have made it so far - and very pleased they have. :)
From me : do what your doing guys/gals & dont let anyone demotivate your cause :)
its appreciated, and I will buy it "when its ready" :)
Later, Asymetrix
AKA Asaf
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@asymetrix
That entire post applies to me as well. We've seen the Amiga decline over the last ten years. Gateway gave up on the "classic" platform completely. Amiga inc made the decision to restart development - that alone makes me respect them a bit.
As for OS4, you can work out quite a bit about it from what we have. The kernel works fine. The OS has been complete enough to give to 70 betatesters. The only remaining issue is emulation.
I'd prefer Hyperion to update us more, but if they have taken the decision not to - probably a good idea, considering how whatever they say can get torn to pieces.
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createcoms wrote:
Good riddens to you 'AmigaOne' peep.
:quickdraw:
um.. have we met?
:-D
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@Rogue
Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to proclaim that OS 4 will not be out this year. That is something that can only be said on December 31st, not a second earlier.
Actually, you're assuming that release can be instaneously handled. Once the final-release form of the OS is established, you've got packaging, distribution, documentation, and most of all PUBLISHING to accomplish. It takes 2-3 weeks for open-source CVS'd roll-your-own projects to go from code-done to public dissemination.
Realistically, one can take an estimation of progress based on work done to date and work remaining to be done. Will it be accurate, no, but it's a guestimate. Ben Yoris did such a guestimate, based on his own experience. You're free to make your own, based on your experience.
Myself, I'm awaiting AOS4's arrival, so we can show precisely why we have the superior product. It's hard to compete with a ghost.
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Actually, you're assuming that release can be instaneously handled. Once the final-release form of the OS is established, you've got packaging, distribution, documentation, and most of all PUBLISHING to accomplish. It takes 2-3 weeks for open-source CVS'd roll-your-own projects to go from code-done to public dissemination.
Realistically, one can take an estimation of progress based on work done to date and work remaining to be done. Will it be accurate, no, but it's a guestimate. Ben Yoris did such a guestimate, based on his own experience. You're free to make your own, based on your experience.
Myself, I'm awaiting AOS4's arrival, so we can show precisely why we have the superior product. It's hard to compete with a ghost.
Your clearly on the whined up.
& your comment is rude.
Like hyperion have never published anything before.
Unlike you who i have never seen or bought anything wich you have done.
Rouge its upto you ofcorse but if i were you i would not honer Downix (who works for Genesi) with a reply.
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Personally, I think it's time to go to every MOS/Genesi post and add "AmigaOS 0wnz" to every one of them like Genesi's buddies and employees do.
Can you guys, just once, not put your unsolicited $.02 in where it is not wanted or needed? This post is NOT about your product, it is about "AmigaOS 4" or did you not figure that out from the topic title?
Hey, better yet, why not just start a "Johnson" topic where you dolts can debate the size of your "hardware." :lol:
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@HMetal
Uh... Ray... you guys do that already.
And I did discuss AOS4 specifically in the post, to be specific bringing up such issues as "distribution" and "time to market." In other words, discussing the post-development stages of AOS4. Seems pretty on-topic to me. Also pointed out Ben Yoris's opinions and where he drew them from, while also validating Hans' rebuttal of them. They saw two different areas of development, and drew differing conclusions based on them. Happens a lot in development.
As for size of hardware, you guys win there. Egads, that board is friggin HUGE!
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downix wrote:
@HMetal
Uh... Ray... you guys do that already.
Come on now Nate. I have, as much as I have wanted to do otherwise, stayed clear of commenting under MOS/Genesi specific topics on amiga.org. Even though Amiga hosts the server, we have given Wayne the leeway to run his site as HE sees fit. This you cannot deny unless you put some silly imaginary spin on it.
As for size of hardware, you guys win there. Egads, that board is friggin HUGE!
Well, to be technical, it isn't Amiga's board, it's Eyetech's :-P
Regardless, couldn't you have made those comments without the troll-bait that you ended with? It was, up until that point, a good response. ;-)
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I dont think Hmetal was referring to MoBo's :lol:
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HMetal wrote:
downix wrote:
@HMetal
Uh... Ray... you guys do that already.
Come on now Nate. I have, as much as I have wanted to do otherwise, stayed clear of commenting under MOS/Genesi specific topics on amiga.org. Even though Amiga hosts the server, we have given Wayne the leeway to run his site as HE sees fit. This you cannot deny unless you put some silly imaginary spin on it.
I was using "you guys" generically, not meaning you specifically. You've always been easier to talk to about things
As for size of hardware, you guys win there. Egads, that board is friggin HUGE!
Well, to be technical, it isn't Amiga's board, it's Eyetech's :-P
Regardless, couldn't you have made those comments without the troll-bait that you ended with? It was, up until that point, a good response. ;-)
If you're referring to the motherboard size, I did not intend that to be troll-bait, I was actually trying to make a joke. Sorry if that didn't come across well.
As for the competition, I actually do want to see AOS4 arrive and put the two OS's head-to-head in order to compare them. Same as I'd like to put Pegasos up against the AmigaONE.
If MorphOS does show up deficient, it means there's an area to work on, and we have a detail to base it on. Same with the Pegasos. It's competition which dirves everything forward! Without it, both camps will stagnate and eventually die off!
Of course, part of me is still holding out for a cooperative effort, but I just don't see that coming anytime soon.
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If you're referring to the motherboard size, I did not intend that to be troll-bait, I was actually trying to make a joke. Sorry if that didn't come across well.
a Black comedian making jokes about black ppl is taken differently to a white comedian making jokes about black ppl.
You working for genesi makes your jokes about eyetech's products in this thread not funny at all.
Im sure you have been alive long enough to know when a joke would more likely be taken as one.
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@Alkemyst
Hmmm it was Ray who wrote about the size of the HW first, and
I'm 100% sure he meant the board, cos in no way he would violate
Waynes posting rules with making sexually offending remarks,
wouldn't he ?
So relax :-D
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Look we all know who the trolls are that see
every thread with the words Amiga Inc or OS4 or
whatever as an excuse to post a load of childish
heckling. We all know their usernames and their
posting history.
We know why they do it and what they think they
have to gain out of it.
But like the recent stupid personal attack on bbrv
that was started on this mainline forum it has the
opposite effect.
I just find myself rolling my eyes in disdain every
time I see a post by the usual suspects. Its like
listening to a broken record.
Then, if you nip over to ANN you see a similar if almost reversed situation occurring with anything
Genesi related.
But then you also notice the reverse of that reverse
happening with anything AOS4 or A1 related.
The same sad old bastards trot out their propaganda
wheezes in an exercise of self flaggelation.
Get over it and for once - please - lets have a discussion that doesn't look like playground yaa-boo ####?
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@DaveP
I agree i will be keeping out from now on with such stupid fighting.
I have been watching Ann & Amiga.org for many years before ever signing up or posting.
I have found myself getting pulled deeper & deeper into such crap as i see too many ppl who are 2 faced with what they say here to what they say on Ann or god forbid Moobunny.
i have more respect for ppl who are consistent wether good or bad.
Ignore the flame bait.
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downix wrote:
Actually, you're assuming that release can be instaneously handled. Once the final-release form of the OS is established, you've got packaging, distribution, documentation, and most of all PUBLISHING to accomplish. It takes 2-3 weeks for open-source CVS'd roll-your-own projects to go from code-done to public dissemination.
Are you kidding me? I've seen and lived through quite a number of commercial releases in the meantime, among these where Shogo, Heretic II, Freespace, SiN/Linux, Shogo/Linux, Shogo/Mac, and a few others. You don't need to tell me how long this takes, I know this pretty well.
OK, so let's correct my original statement: You cannot make this call before December 1st. Better? That still does not mean March 1st. OK?
Realistically, one can take an estimation of progress based on work done to date and work remaining to be done. Will it be accurate, no, but it's a guestimate. Ben Yoris did such a guestimate, based on his own experience. You're free to make your own, based on your experience.
Ben Yoris made a guestimate and posted this on a public forum, whereas he didn't have any rights to do so. I used to be a friend of his, but honestly he lacks the knowledge to make such a call.
Myself, I'm awaiting AOS4's arrival, so we can show precisely why we have the superior product. It's hard to compete with a ghost.
Wait until it is released, then we will compete.
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:smack: :whack: :flame:
I see the kids are at it again .... :roll: