Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: TheMagicM on November 24, 2004, 07:07:22 PM
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http://www.genesi.lu/morphos_statement.php
I wont post what I really think. It would end up getting censored.
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I have read it and of course it is the fault of a single person. They mean David Gerber. Let's put that in other words. He is the one that is doing what a lot of people want to do or think like that about it. The list of people that still are waiting for money is long. There is only one to blame, really. It's a sad day for the people that have bought a Pegasos and thought MOS would be their Amiga path. But do understand that in the end it had to come down to this. But playing like it's not your fault but only a single person? Tis tis tis...
Coder
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I dont understand your reply. Are you saying its David's fault? or did I misinterpret that?
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@TheMagicM
I dont understand your reply. Are you saying its David's fault? or did I misinterpret that?
Oh not at all. I mean that Genesi is saying it is because of him that we have these problems. Which is bull. He just did what many people wanted to do but did not or feel the same like he did. David is not to blame. Genesi is making it sound like that.
Coder
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Interestingly, from Morphos.net:
"2004-11-24: a payment plan with a MorphOS 1.5 release date of 2005-01-31 was offered to Genesi who rejected it with empty threats"
and from the Genesi statement:
"Genesi will resume support of external MorphOS 1.5 development when there is a clear plan and a date set for the release."
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TheMagicM wrote:
http://www.genesi.lu/morphos_statement.php
I wont post what I really think. It would end up getting censored.
Me neither. :pissed:
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Coder wrote:
He just did what many people wanted to do but did not or feel the same like he did.
But you are guessing about that. You could visit #morphos on ArcNet and ask the other core developers whether they agree with Zapek's action, if you really want to know. That doesn't mean that Genesi are right claiming "it's all David's fault", but you probably will find that not many people wanted him to take this action, at least not so aggressively.
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@mdma/TheMagicM
Speak. It cannot be that bad? Right?
Coder
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@KennyR
No doubt there that they thought his action was a bit too much. But I can understand him doing this. He's not the only one on the list waiting for money as you know. You would be surprised what is on the list. Sure coming out like that destroys any normal talks for a solution. But there are 2 parties involved. Bottom line it's sad this situation.
Coder
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there's any number of reasons why people who are owed money by BBRV aren't interested in being public about it.
one is that the minute you say anything you are vilified. and if you happen to have children and a LIFE, that just isn't pleasant.
I know people who have been unpaid (for about a year, now) and really don't want to cause the amiga community any more heartache. So they keep quiet. plus, they are busy looking for work. or working at whatever they can find. remember, kids don't stop eating just because someone doesn't pay you.
I doubt this "one" person didn't want to make a fuss for no reason. I suspect he wanted to prevent anyone else from being hurt or used.
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(http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//lmaa.gif)(http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//eviltongue.gif)(http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//lmaa.gif)
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David Gerber is being used, in typical fashion as a scapegoat for the entire issue. The four people on that list are by far not alone in being screwed by Bill Buck when it suits him. It's just a shame that only a few have the ability to stand up and say so. As such, it's politically simple for Bill Buck to say "it's all the fault of one person". Sadly, he doesn't understand that the "one person" in question is him.
It doesn't matter if he's put $5 or five million into MorphOS. That's completely irrelevant, because he made those commitments in order to get things done. The fact is that he's made promises he hasn't kept, and has a long list of people who've been screwed in his path, so the sole "fault" rests entirely on him.
Wayne
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@Wayne
Very true. What I find strange is that people that still have to get money from him are on his side. Or is it just me?
Coder
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What I find strange is that people that still have to get money from him are on his side. Or is it just me?
Certain people are very good with words, some people keep believing every lie told from 1 or several persons.
Note to blue and red trolls, that applies for both sides.
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@redrumloa
Those are funny smileys. :-) I wonder who you are mooning here. :-P
Coder
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@seer
Certain people are very good with words, some people keep believing every lie told from 1 or several persons.
I am handsome, really. :-P
Coder
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I am handsome, really. :-P
Like J J Jameson said; if he's a hero why is he wearing a mask ? What has he got to hide...
In your case, if that's true, why that paperbag at first and later a bucket :-)
Well, I guess we've got to take your girlfriends word for it huh ? (Her nick was Imation orsomething ? )
/edit,
Just trying to get your lovely girlfriend back online ;-)
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@seer
:-) That is her nick. And she is my wife now. I think she has a bucket fetish thing. :-P
Coder
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Coder wrote:
@mdma/TheMagicM
Speak. It cannot be that bad? Right?
Coder
Last time I commented on this subject I was moderated 4 times.
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@mdma
Last time I commented on this subject I was moderated 4 times.
Say no more. I get the point.
Coder
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One the other side of things, this is really bad news
because MorphOS is a VERY very good operating system.
we will see if the final release of OS4 can compare to it's power. but from those words on the site
release 1.5 will probably never come out.
:-? :pissed:
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I agree that it's incredibly bad news, because the developers poured their hearts into it and you're probably right, there won't be a 1.5, at least the 1.5 that they (Genesi) were promising.
There were promises made to pay developers for MorphOS. Giving Buck the benefit of doubt (which is difficult for me), they paid for development through 1.4. Now that they have gotten certain key parts (I have no idea whether or not they have the source to things like MUI) built into 1.4, he sees no point in paying for anything else. Trouble is, he probably (oops) forgot to tell the developers who've gone unpaid for months about that little fact. Looking at it logistically, the four people listed on MorphOS.net (there are many more) are responsible for key parts of MorphOS(such as MUI) which -- once Genesi has the source code -- they really have no use for any longer.
Hypothetically speaking : Why should Genesi continue to pay for something they publicly stated that they "bought" and "own" when they can just take the 1.4 code they supposedly paid for, "steal it" then find cheaper programmers to continue development?
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true that.
well i am certainly glad that os4 is backed by a reputable company like hyperion. and they have the resources to continue with os4. iv got my cash saved and im just waiting for the release....
feel sorry for morph tho..
:-) :lol:
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@Wayne
Hypothetically speaking : Why should Genesi continue to pay for something they publicly stated that they "bought" and "own" when they can just take the 1.4 code they supposedly paid for, "steal it" then find cheaper programmers to continue development?
Hypothetically?
Coder
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This is sad and all I can say is the community strikes again shooting itself in the foot.. When are we gonna get over airing dirty laundry.. A deep hearty thanks to the poster who has really put the morphOS end user's investment in the product in danger..
Morphos Statement (http://www.genesi.lu/morphos_statement.php)
Quote from the Genesi/PlanB MorphOS statement:
Genesi SARL bplan GmbH
A Statement Concerning MorphOS
...
The posts against Genesi made on MorphOS.net are unfortunate. These actions of a single person have damaged our discussions with major strategic partners and have cast doubt on Genesi and MorphOS. There has never been any disagreement about paying for development, in fact more than $500,000 have been paid to MorphOS developers and for MorphOS licenses. There has been disagreement however, how much and for what to pay for.
MorphOS does not currently drive significant sales of the platform. It is our hope that one day it will, but this will not be achieved without the majority of the Company's resources being focused on activities that generate revenue and profit.
....
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DonnyEMU wrote:
This is sad and all I can say is the community strikes again shooting itself in the foot.. When are we gonna get over airing dirty laundry..
That won't happen. Dirty laundry is basically all this entire community has left. What strikes me as odd is that people continue to support the platform despite everything that has happened to it.
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Kinda reminds me of some lyrics from Guns and Roses' Civil War:
"That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land"
Dammy
AROS-Max (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/katejames/Amiga/)
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Donny,
I agree with you that the current state of affairs is indeed sad, but your comments strike me as if from someone who simply doesn't understand the situation in the Amiga community. (no insult is intended)
I started this site 10 years ago, having run an Amiga-oriented BBS for untold years before that. I've literally run the gamut between seeing the world's largest computer community with a fantastic machine (which beat everything else on the planet) to what we see now as an abandoned platform with little hope.
Since the untimely death of Commodore (really since 1996/97), we've dealt with one company after another who've really bungled their way through thing, either through fraud or incompetence, leaving the community to shrink and causing the remaining few (the real zealots) become more and more cynnical and hostile over protecting what they see as their "holy grail" of computing.
I don't really care which people choose to support, because there currently only exists the choice "between idiots and thieves". Those choices of course being between Amiga Inc and Genesi. I -- for one -- think it's completely stupid and will never understand why people supporting either "side" have drawn such a wide line between themselves and refuse to accept that both platforms are virtually identical.
Unfortunately, since I began operating Amiga.org in 1995, I've seen this community shrink from hundreds of thousands (most of whom weren't online then) to roughly 1,000 or so, almost all of whom are online. We as a community have been ignored, lied to, shafted, and just plain screwed for so many years, the only thing that would save us from this self-destructive cynicism is a real company with real plans, and a real way to get us there. In a very real way, I'm very afraid that we lost that opportunity when Gateway stepped out of the picture.
In the end, Just keep in mind that most of the people you see here suffer from "soap opera dramatitis" where the Amiga is concerned. The loudest of them usually aren't even Amiga users, but just kids who get a rise out of starting trouble.
Wayne Hunt
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mdma,
I have asked you repeatedly not to use avatars of a nazi nature, and painting a Hitler mustache on Dubya still applies. Remove your avatar, or I will finally remove you. This is your last warning.
Wayne
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Donny,
To keep my "arguments" seperated, I have to strongly disagree with your dissertation that all of this is the fault of one person (presumably you're pointing the finger at David Gerber). What you are apparently not aware of is the FACT that there is a very long list (currently about 12 to 15 people that I personally am aware of) who have worked for Genesi without being fully paid for their services (myself included).
I'm sure the four people on that list did not arbitrarily decide in unison one day to wake up and post that to the Web site. If they're anything like me, they've probably spent months trying to get their money out of Bill Buck and have taken the only step they feel is left to them at this point. After months of trying without success, there is a tendency to "give up" on the idea of ever seeing the money you're owed and decide to take the only action left to them.
Seriously Donny, I understand situational changes, but If there is indeed one person to blame for this situation, it's Bill Buck for making commitments that he had ZERO intention of following through with, followed closely by certain SBN's who, in the interest of gaining favor -- or perhaps even their own paychecks -- are trying fervently to do damage control and actually excuse Bill Buck for screwing his people.
It's AMAZING to watch the number of people (myself included) that Bill Buck is backpeddling to, now claiming that "they didn't do any work" or "there is a disagreement as to how much is owed" (as I said, 12 to 15 by my last known count -- myself included). Taken in context of the number of people lying in his wake -- all getting the same song and dance -- it cannot be some ignorable coincidence, and he most definitely has lost any right he may have ever had to present himself as a "victim" or "martyr" in all of this.
If I were a real company, I wouldn't touch Buck with "my third-cousin's uncle's sister's roommate's" 10-foot pole.
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Wayne wrote:
mdma,
I have asked you repeatedly not to use avatars of a nazi nature, and painting a Hitler mustache on Dubya still applies. Remove your avatar, or I will finally remove you. This is your last warning.
Wayne
Thank you!
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Wayne wrote:
mdma,
I have asked you repeatedly not to use avatars of a nazi nature, and painting a Hitler mustache on Dubya still applies. Remove your avatar, or I will finally remove you. This is your last warning.
Wayne
Erm..... You haven't ever asked me.
Will change it later on this afternoon when i get time.
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DonnyEMU wrote:
This is sad and all I can say is the community strikes again shooting itself in the foot.. When are we gonna get over airing dirty laundry.. A deep hearty thanks to the poster who has really put the morphOS end user's investment in the product in danger..
Morphos Statement (http://www.genesi.lu/morphos_statement.php)
all that stuff on that site is spin by the spin-master.
If you believe anything BBRV say, you are being dupped.
Wayne is telling the Truth.
the only "sides" here are right and wrong. moral and immoral. don't abandon your amiga brothers from someone who has never written a line of code.
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@Wayne
It's AMAZING to watch the number of people (myself included) that Bill Buck is backpeddling to, now claiming that "they didn't do any work" or "there is a disagreement as to how much is owed" (as I said, 12 to 15 by my last known count -- myself included).
You stepped out and told the "public" what they did. And that was all wrong, according the Genesi. I agree on your action but not everyone does the same. You see there are a lot of people that are waiting for money and are keeping quiet. Because once you come out and really tell what you think you can forget about your money. So they keep quiet and that way hope they still get the money. They must have "told" you not to go out and tell the public what happened. Because, how can I put it nicely, they would not like that so much. Hence the leaking of some info about you in the public.
Coder
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I dont agree with that Coder. I wouldnt want to wait 1 year to be repaid for the work I did. Bills dont stop coming in just because you dont have money. Going public w/your money issues looks bad on who owes the money. Genesi/bplan/BBRV are in the public eye being that they sell the Pegasos system. A few well placed emails to business partners will surely scare them off.
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...and that would be just about typical for some people in this community.
As for you Wayne Hunt, do you have the courage to let others read this:
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Paul Adams"
Date: January 3, 2004 4:11:04 AM CET
To: "Wayne Hunt \(E-mail\)"
Cc: "Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck \(E-mail\)"
Subject: Official Corporate Position
Reply-To:
Wayne
From all reports, you have completed your responsibilities to transfer all required access data relative to the Genesi web sites. Now that we have complete access to the site, we will evaluate what you have actually delivered to Genesi and determine within the next two weeks whether or not we believe you are owed any further consulting fees.
As for expenses, please scan and email to me the phone bill you mentioned in your email of this afternoon. Also, regarding your New Orleans trip, please send me an email breaking down those expenses, with scanned receipts as well. Upon receipt of the breakdown, I will advise you on the timing of any reimbursement.
Effective immediately, you are no longer to use the email address wayne@genesi-usa.com for any purposes. That email address will be shut down and forwarded to me. After this email, I will contact you on your amiga.org address.
Now that all is safely within our corporate control, I will respond to your actions over the past several days.
You were brought on as a consultant on April 9, 2003 with the task of managing the Genesi web development effort and with the goal of having a completed web site with a fully functional on line store completed by July 15, 2003. At your consulting rate of $5,000 a month, the budget for the first phase of the web site was $15,000, not including the consulting fees to the people you were required to manage.
You did not deliver the functional site and additional expenses were incurred to conduct a web developers meeting in Sacramento to bring the effort to focus. Each month, the site was delayed. Faced with a deadline of October 15, 2003, you scrambled, coded with bubble gum and duct tape and put a marginally functional site on line. Over the next two months, you were requested to bring to the site the functionality you were being paid to deliver. You never did.
As of today, you have been paid a total of $38,000 in consulting fees, which represents full payment through December 1, 2003. You were paid more in consulting fees than any other Genesi consultant and delivered the least. As you may recall, you received your first check for a full month of consulting 9 days after being brought on board. I am attaching a full breakdown of payments that have been made to date. Even assuming you have earned any consulting fees through December 30th, the most you would be owed is $5,064.52.
Since you seem to think it may be somehow clever to disparage Genesi in your online postings, please be advised that we are prepared to respond. Genesi is a start up company, so delays in payment of obligations are not that unusual. Should we be required to respond to any on line postings, we will show that, for a start up, we exhibited a tremendous degree of tolerance for your incompetence before terminating your consulting services.
You were paid over twice the budgeted amount for your services yet never delivered the product you were contracted to deliver. In our dealings, you demonstrated a fundamental inability to manage either people or products. You also do not appear capable of even managing yourself.
Your action in changing the administrative password to deny access to the site was appallingly unprofessional. Attempting to hold a web site hostage while demanding twice what you may reasonably be owed is despicable. Your mingling of corporate and personal data at zone edit jeopardized corporate data and made the access transfer process much more difficult than it should have been.
You have demonstrated without a doubt that you are not fit for any position of trust. Your posting of inappropriate images on the web site demonstrated your complete lack of judgment and fundamental unfitness for any position of responsibility or discretion. Finally, your false statements to me that you were told to post those pictures “ASAP” establishes your utter lack of integrity.
You never seemed to understand that consulting fees are earned by performance, not simply because you survived another 30 days. Considering your poor performance and failure to deliver the contracted product, your demand for anything demonstrates an incredible level of arrogance.
This email will be placed in the corporate records as the official position of Genesi regarding your performance as a consultant. Should you desire to provide a response to Genesi’s official position, I will include that in the corporate records along with this document. Having said that, I have no intention of engaging in a debate with you over your performance.
We have no intention of making any aspect of this position public. If, however, you decide to commence an on line discussion of Genesi, I can assure you that we will identify you as a disgruntled former consultant and post a response containing the points outlined above to place your comments into perspective.
Paul Adams
Chief Operating Officer
Genesi - USA
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R&B
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@TheMagicM
I dont agree with that Coder. I wouldnt want to wait 1 year to be repaid for the work I did.
You mean that you think I do not like Wayne or others coming out? I don't mind at all they do. Maybe my post was a bit unclear. Note: must get sleep!
Coder
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You mean that you think I do not like Wayne or others coming out?
I mean that they express their feelings about the whole situation, not coming out of the closet. Not that there is anything wrong with that but that's not what I mean. Ok I will stop now. :-)
Coder
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posted by redrumloa on 2004/11/24 14:09:18
(new smilies)
:laughing: LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Put those in our extended smilies list please!!!
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Wayne said:
The fact is that he's (Bill Buck's) made promises he hasn't kept, and has a long list of people who've been screwed in his path, so the sole "fault" rests entirely on him.
Perfect. I knew Bill Buck and MorphOS was nothing but bad news to begin with. My hunch was right. Oh, I'm not like shoving this bad news into everyone's face or would want to troll. It's just the way it is--the truth hurts. :-(
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Well, well, well, Paul Adams...
Bad-mouthing the community now?
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THREAD LOCKED BY AN USER :roll:
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I seem to remeber A time, and I could be wrong, where wayne was standing up for genesis, whenever people bad mouthed them or hinted at them being less than professional.
I really dont think, in all my years of reading waynes posts and dealing with him on a few occasions that he whould to stir up a can of worms, if had indeed been such a bad employee.
And I know from experience (my father works for EDS in the UK), that if a prokect goes over target date or budget that the company and or employees still expect and do get paid.
I also dont think all these people are bad mouthing bill buck just for the phone of it, has that man got a paranoid mind or what, and seems to be your usual school boy bully, who blames everything one everyone else.
And before people get on the Ainc arr no better etc etc, I really dont care. I own neither system(though I might one day), and have a classic miggy, manufactured by commodore. I dont think either side has been professional in this, and I have harping on for years now, about people growing up and working together, we whould have new updated hardware, with a full release os by now if they did.
But its too late for all that now, and I am honestly starting to think that the end is nigh.
Prehaps the morphos coders could work towards releasing the os for A1...
just my very long 2p
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Dear Wayne, dear Bill,
Would it be too much to ask to stop this naive nonsense of trying to out-smear the other in public and take this discussion to private channels? Obviously you two have a lot to talk about, and my advice would be to hire an attorney---I am given to understand that is usually the best course of action in these cases.
Bill, one word of friendly impartial advice: the statement on Genesi's site speaks of 'damaged discussions with major strategic partners' because of all the hubbub; this particular stunt of yours is really not helping your case one bit.
Wayne, same for you: I admire your professional and adult-like restraint in a lot of matters; you even chide many for not showing any, and rightfully so. I hope you take your own advice to heart.
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BBRV, that e-mail by you is below the belt...
A$$hole!!!!
You are making mortal enemies!!!!
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Anyone want popcorn?
....
:roll:
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YEESSS!!! i like this kind of movies!
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Yeah, bbrv once again acting very professionally ;-)
A.org hasnt been that entertaining since doomy was kicked..:-D
Although I feel sorry for all the unpaid employees and the mos community. Nobody deserves to get cheated like that.
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That e-mail is old news - it appeared some months ago on ann.lu and was considered as pure trolling back then, why shouldn't it be considered as trolling now as well?
Damn... the trolls have became boring.... :-(
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Hi,
That e-mail was the same that "leaked" earlier on to Ann.lu I think.
Coder
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@drHirudo
You me beat me to it. :-) Indeed old news.
Coder
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rayt wrote:
Yeah, bbrv once again acting very professionally ;-)
A.org hasnt been that entertaining since doomy was kicked..:-D
Although I feel sorry for all the unpaid employees and the mos community. Nobody deserves to get cheated like that.
I'm a member of the MOS community, and the only people to have cheated me is Amiga Inc. I'm down $50 to them. I got everything I paid for from Genesi and more besides.
Have a go at BBRV by all means, but don't try to make out you're doing it on behalf of the MOS community :-)
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Lando wrote:
rayt wrote:
Yeah, bbrv once again acting very professionally ;-)
A.org hasnt been that entertaining since doomy was kicked..:-D
Although I feel sorry for all the unpaid employees and the mos community. Nobody deserves to get cheated like that.
I'm a member of the MOS community, and the only people to have cheated me is Amiga Inc. I'm down $50 to them. I got everything I paid for from Genesi and more besides.
Have a go at BBRV by all means, but don't try to make out you're doing it on behalf of the MOS community :-)
'Amiga Inc' shouldn’t be an issue in this topic.
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@BBRV
Wait, Didn't I read this on Ann and/or Moobunny? I believe I did. Redundant! You're just pissed and felt you had to strike back because Wayne said once again that he's pissed at you and why. It didn't stop him from posting this time, why would posting that again stop him in the future. Just accept it as fact as how he feel. Couldn't you have posted something new? Hey, How about the Consultant Empolyment Contract? Then we can see what the terms were so we know under what conditions payment for work is made. Though I doubt you do that. Might make you look bad.
--
Okay, enough of that. Very Very Very off-topic. Where were we... Oh, yes. Talking about the new Genesi press release on their website about the current Morphos situation and where all of this could go.
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@Lando
Amiga Inc. or no saints either. You can write a book about them. But it was about Genesi here. And I am the first in line to critize Amiga Inc. for their actions. It's not a one way thing, not at all. But one at a time. :-)
Coder
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On www.morphos-news.de you can find (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=930):
Actually, we are closing Genesi Sarl, but that will happen at the end of the year. We will just operate through Frankfurt and the USA. No more trolling please.
R&B
Coder
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True, Amiga, Inc. doesn't even enter into this. It's about Genesi, BBRV, the Morphos Dev Team, and the disgruntled Morphos Dev team members.
Lando,
Hey, I lost my $50 too. along with over 1000 others. So, sure be pissed at Amiga, Inc. I'm not looking there. I'm looking at Hyperion and Eyetech. That's neither here not there though.
As Morphos user you are looking at possibly never seeing version 1.5 or any package upgrade even if 1.5 gets distributed in some form. Not that Morphos will go away. Hey, Look at Classic Amiga OS. Still here and still being used (hacked and patched as it maybe on some systems).
Besides, It's kind of hard to have Red vs. Blue flamewars if there is not Blue. :-o
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Wow. Why do I feel that the bottom just fell out of the bucket? So, what does that leave? That's what, Genesi USA and Bplan.
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@Argo:
Well, there's another bucket available. Yep, the one on Coder's head. :-)
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I got everything I paid for from Genesi and more besides.
Have a go at BBRV by all means, but don't try to make out you're doing it on behalf of the MOS community
Yeah see what you mean. But what I just meant was, if I had bought a pegasos I would have felt cheated somehow reading that morphos development stops (more or less) and they are focussing on linux now. Also I didn't meant to speak for the mos community, I just wanted my post not to sound like I'm enjoying the fact that the "other side" is facing hard times now.
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I'm no lawyer or something, but when genesi sarl doesn't exist anymore, what happens to the contracts made with them :-? Reminds me somehow of the thendic france/germany situation or something..
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The difference there is that Thendic went bankrupt (erm, right ?), and Genesi SARL is just closing I guess, transfering everything to Genesi Frankfurt / USA.
But that's just a guess, yours is as good as mine..
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Thendic-France was closed as part of Pretory. Which was why Genesi SARL was formed. Though why Genesi SARL is closing, who knows... Well, BBRV yeah.
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@Wayne:
I -- for one -- think it's completely stupid and will never understand why people supporting either "side" have drawn such a wide line between themselves and refuse to accept that both platforms are virtually identical.
Thank you. I was begining to think I was the only one who thought this.
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Wilse wrote:
I -- for one -- think it's completely stupid and will never understand why people supporting either "side" have drawn such a wide line between themselves and refuse to accept that both platforms are virtually identical.
Thank you. I was begining to think I was the only one who thought this.
That's a very easy judgement if made from the other end of the screen of a Windows XP box. Certainly people who don't care about either platform and never intend to use them will have the least insight into their differences. Although you Wilse are in a good position to see the actual physical differences right up close, which I'm a little envious about. :)
Personally, I believe that, while MOS and OS4 are similar in what they want to bring to users, they differ radically in implementation, developer support, aims, approaches, look and feel, and even the make-up of their userbases. I won't elaborate on how they differ because I have no intention of being called a liar or a troll for stating my opinion in such a - let's say, contentious - thread, and it's OT anyway. But I think they're different enough that one simply couldn't jump from one to the other and not see a difference.
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Wilse wrote:
@Wayne:
I -- for one -- think it's completely stupid and will never understand why people supporting either "side" have drawn such a wide line between themselves and refuse to accept that both platforms are virtually identical.
Thank you. I was begining to think I was the only one who thought this.
you aren't! I have never been part of that stupid red vs blue war because while that nonsense was going on I was busy having a career.
I was busy working on TV shows and series, etc.
I was busy writing articles for the online part of New Techniques magazine.
I was busy beta testing various versions of ImageFX.
and so on and so on......
I just have no time for that sort of sillyness.
When I had my hands on an amithalon, I thought: "cool! this feels like an amiga on speed!"
when I had my hands on a peg I had basically the same thought.
I've had a chance to see OS4 (beta versions after the pre-release) and it keeps getting better and better. and faster and faster.
I really enjoy my WinUAE (even though it's "struggling" with windows under it).
I just love amiga OS - no matter what the form.
I've found that the people who program for MOS are talented and lovely people. (no, i haven't forgoten AROS. that's next on my list of things to check out).
I've never had an issue with amiga people - even the silly people. they are just easy to ignore when they get too ridiculous.
I just have a problem with people being used and lied to. and that has nothing to do with what OS one uses.
-
With the fear of further OT deviation,
Someone had this pic as their backdrop. I think its is quite fitting for our little community:
http://www.deviantart.com/view/10069275/
The poor little sod is the community who is being injected with Red, Blue and Green stuff but still remains as white as a ghost.
Quite symbolic really :-D
-
all colors put together make white.
I prefer to interpret this to mean that if the amiga community stays together and support each other we will remain strong and pure. and will enjoy all the colors we contribute to this "amiga project".
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KennyR wrote:
I think they're different enough that one simply couldn't jump from one to the other and not see a difference.
I agree; I've already noticed various pros and cons with both solutions. Having said that, they still *very* similar.
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@ Cecilia
You are right, I wasn't thinking in RGB terms. :)
Darn, I tried to find something positive in it but the expression on the guy's face is just one of pain.:bigcry:
Sorry for the OT post :-P
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the expression on the guy's face is just one of pain.
maybe he's surprised.
you notice how some people resist the idea of bringing the amiga community together.
it may seem "painfull" at first.
but, if we embrace our differences we can enjoy them - rather than fight about them.
-
How exactly was MorphOS bad news? Was it bad news when it was
announced, late in the Gateway days? Was it bad news when it
delivered 1.4, an OS many users like, while still being
incomplete? Explain that to me. Why was it bad news?
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MorphOS development didn't stop. No developer from the MorphOS team has stopped working, apart from Zapek.
And before anyone jumps at me, I'll repeat that for the millionth time:
I don't blame Zapek for coming out with his problem. I blame him for the wording he used in his "announcement". The signal it gave to the world, INCLUDING you, is that the whole MorphOS team has dropped MorphOS, that development has stopped. This, of course, is *NOT* true.
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I must have missed the post where someone said MOS was bad news.. whoever said that is totally wrong. One thing for fact...while Genesi was paying for MOS, it was growing with leaps and bounds. If BBRV & MOS Devel work this out it will be even more awesome. I will pray to the Alternative OS gods for their help. :-P
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Someone had this pic as their backdrop. I think its is quite fitting for our little community:
http://www.deviantart.com/view/10069275/
The poor little sod is the community who is being injected with Red, Blue and Green stuff but still remains as white as a ghost.
Erm, who's the green suppost to be? AROS is black.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
Erm, who's the green suppost to be? AROS is black.
Dammy
Amizilla cash injection maybe :-?
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AmiGR wrote:
MorphOS development didn't stop. No developer from the MorphOS team has stopped working, apart from Zapek.
Even if it hasn't stopped it will continue to develop so slowly that it wont be interesting for serious users anymore, because the core developers have to find another job to pay their taxes and work on MorphOS only as parttime/hobby. And looking at the fact these $500,000 claimed to be spent on it were mostly a boost for the development in an attempt to kill the similar products on the Amiga market and make as much people as possible jumping on board, from the community, I doubt it will be much improved in the next months. The cheap mobo is also part of this tactic as well. But as the old people here say - the cheap always comes more expensive at the end.
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Coder wrote:
On www.morphos-news.de you can find (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=930):
Actually, we are closing Genesi Sarl, but that will happen at the end of the year. We will just operate through Frankfurt and the USA. No more trolling please.
R&B
Coder
If this is true, does it very much sound like... VisCorp... Pretory... Thendic-France... and now Genesi SARL.
Hope this is not just a plan to get rid of the missing payments (in an unmorally way).
-
Cheap Pegasos1/2's is good for users, but Genesi should really have sold them at a price that could have covered their costs or paid their developers. BBRV posted somewhere they needed 25,000 Pegasos units sold a month to keep them going (I think). Thats not good. :/
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why dont we just face the facts that its all over finished and done with
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@poweramiga2002
why dont we just face the facts that its all over finished and done with
You mean Genesi?
Coder
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yes i mean genesi
i hope other morph os ppl will continue to write for the peg comp its just not fair what bb has been doing
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Well hello Bill!
I wondered when you would pull your head out of the hole and toss that piece of fiction up on Amiga.org in an attempt to both defend your actions and to bully me out of speaking out about the subject.
Honestly, there isn't much I can say regarding your post that isn't a violation of our own posting guidelines. Suffice to say that the letter in question is -- like most things coming from you, "factually-challenged". -- I have no problem with your posting it, though it violates several of the aforementioned guidelines, including trolling, off-topic posting, and postings of a libelous nature. It's been posted now for several hours, and I will allow it to remain, because it wonderfully illustrates the lengths to which you'll go to screw over one of your employees, even if you have to create a complete work of fiction to do it.
An interesting fact is that Paul Adams himself wrote me (9/13/2004 09:59am) to state that (quote):
Because I was no longer comfortable with certain aspects of Genesi, I terminated my relationship with Genesi USA in early August. I am no longer involved with the company in any way. You will note on the Genesi web site that my name and address are no longer the US point of contact. I am not sure what is going on to cause someone to post that e-mail, but I did want you to know that I had no part in that decision or that posting.
(While I apologize to the readers -- and to Paul -- for the bad form of quoting an e-mail, I'm doing so in defense of open libel.)
Indeed, if one were strictly to guess at what Paul meant, one might think that Paul too found himself on the short end of the stick where you are concerned, but since I don't personally have any specific knowledge of the situation, I dare not speculate.
The trouble is, there are now over 8 people that I personally know of who have been screwed by you in a similar manner, the latest of which appears to be the unfortunate scapegoat David Gerber. Outside of the four mentioned on MorphOS.net, I won't name other names here, out of respect for the personal choices of those other former co-workers, but I suspect -- like the names mentioned on MorphOS.net, they'll come forward of their own initiative when they finally realize that they're not going to ever see any of the money they're owed. You've even publicly indicated that you either have treated, or will shortly treat Mr. Gerber to the exact same boilerplate that I was subject to, to include outright lies which state that "he didn't do any work, so we don't owe him any money". I have been mostly silent regarding this whole situation for almost one full year, but I reserve every right to speak out when I see other friends and former co-workers still being screwed using the exact same lies you used with me.
For the record, the infamous "letter from Paul" was, in fact, received by me, but it is, in fact, full of completely fictitious events and logic. In fact, every other member of the US Web team has agreed as to the dubious nature of it. I guess I suppose that we should all be grateful that you personally at least had the nerve to post the letter here rather than having your "Renfield-type" minions do it for you this time. It doesn't however change any of the facts.
You sir, owe me in excess of 10,000 dollars (to include expenses) for work completed the months of November and December 2003, lest we forget the bad check (insufficient funds) written 12/10/2003. You've even admitted as much in your previous attempts to get me to "accept a number of Pegasos motherboards equivalent to the amount of pay in question in exchange " (an offer you back peddled on quickly I might add). No amount of "creative bookkeeping" on your part will belay these facts, but I digress. The chances of me ever seeing that money are about as good as you actually taking responsibility for screwing over the lives of most of the people in your employ.
In short, I wish I had never met you. My unfortunate dealings with you have cost me my livelihood (although the US economy hasn't helped), my health, and finally my marriage (through the stress involved in trying to recuperate from the illegitimate loss of two months' pay). You sir, in my opinion are a liar (many examples and false press releases abound, not to mention the factually-challenged letter from Paul), a thief (based on the growing list of people unpaid for months -- and in some cases apparently years), and a bully (based on your consistent actions to myself and others, and even the release of the infamous aforementioned letter to which I am responding).
I am done with you sir. I will not continue this subject unless you openly continue to post false (off-topic I might add) information regarding me and my tenure at Genesi in a brazen attempt to take the focus off of your own dishonorable actions. Have a nice day.
Wayne
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jahc wrote:
Cheap Pegasos1/2's is good for users, but Genesi should really have sold them at a price that could have covered their costs or paid their developers. BBRV posted somewhere they needed 25,000 Pegasos units sold a month to keep them going (I think). Thats not good. :/
That cheap Pegasos was good for the users only in short term and was bad in long term as it's shown now. Even if it costed 5 euro more, that surplus could be used to pay Zapek, as it was fabricated he is the only one to blame, the others would continue to work for free and MorphOS users happily insult the Amigans on Ann.lu and the silent observers laught at them all the time.
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@Wayne
An interesting fact is that Paul Adams himself wrote me (9/13/2004 09:59am) to state that (quote):
Because I was no longer comfortable with certain aspects of Genesi, I terminated my relationship with Genesi USA in early August. I am no longer involved with the company in any way. You will note on the Genesi web site that my name and address are no longer the US point of contact. I am not sure what is going on to cause someone to post that e-mail, but I did want you to know that I had no part in that decision or that posting.
That does give it another spin. Really.
My unfortunate dealings with you have cost me my livelihood (although the US economy hasn't helped), my health, and finally my marriage (through the stress involved in trying to recuperate from the illegitimate loss of two months' pay).
Your marriage? That just plain out sucks. FUBAR or happy ending?
Good point of leaving the mail on there.
Coder
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FUBAR or happy ending?
Off-topic -- (I don't normally speak openly about it, but since I did open pandora's box on the subject):
A regrettable ending, but nonetheless a reality traceable directly to two events:
1) The passing of my mom, who helped to provide focus to my life on December 8th 2003 and
2) Being screwed by Genesi, to include the NSF check received at Christmas last year.
In all honesty, I bear no ill will towards my ex-wife whatsoever. I, in fact, wish her the best in wherever life takes her as long as she's happy. Things between us just gradually increased in tension over the last year until we both (apparently simultaneously) decided it would be "better to be lonely than miserable", but it's not my place to speculate as to how she feels regarding the situation.
There are lots of regrets on my part, and it's been incredibly rough on both of us, but then again, things like this are never easy for anyone involved.
Life's kinda funny that way.
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Hi Wayne,
You sir, owe me in excess of 10,000 dollars (to include expenses) for work completed the months of November and December 2003, lest we forget the bad check (insufficient funds) written 12/10/2003. You've even admitted as much in your previous attempts to get me to "accept a number of Pegasos motherboards equivalent to the amount of pay in question in exchange " (an offer you back peddled on quickly I might add). No amount of "creative bookkeeping" on your part will belay these facts, but I digress. The chances of me ever seeing that money are about as good as you actually taking responsibility for screwing over the lives of most of the people in your employ.
In short, I wish I had never met you. My unfortunate dealings with you have cost me my livelihood (although the US economy hasn't helped), my health, and finally my marriage (through the stress involved in trying to recuperate from the illegitimate loss of two months' pay). You sir, in my opinion are a liar (many examples and false press releases abound, not to mention the factually-challenged letter from Paul), a thief (based on the growing list of people unpaid for months -- and in some cases apparently years), and a bully (based on your consistent actions to myself and others, and even the release of the infamous aforementioned letter to which I am responding).
I am done with you sir. I will not continue this subject unless you openly continue to post false (off-topic I might add) information regarding me and my tenure at Genesi in a brazen attempt to take the focus off of your own dishonorable actions. Have a nice day.
Wayne
Although I've generally been supportive of Genesi in the past (and will always be supportive of MorphOS and
it's developers), this is sad material to read. You have my very best wishes and thoughts on getting things back together for the better.
@thread topic
Here's to the ongoing development of MorphOS. From a long-term perspective, I think the idea of a Mac port is something worth considering.
:pint:
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@Wayne
That's just, how can I say it nicely, disaster. And still getting {bleep} all over you puts more fuel to the flames.
Life's kinda funny that way.
Yeah.
Coder
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hnl_dk wrote:
Coder wrote:
On www.morphos-news.de you can find (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=930):
Actually, we are closing Genesi Sarl, but that will happen at the end of the year. We will just operate through Frankfurt and the USA. No more trolling please.
R&B
Coder
If this is true, does it very much sound like... VisCorp... Pretory... Thendic-France... and now Genesi SARL.
Hope this is not just a plan to get rid of the missing payments (in an unmorally way).
all company names have one thing in common: Buck.
see the writing on the wall????
and everything Wayne said is true. I can't reveal names of people I know publically, but privately, I've been telling this same story for the last year.
word to the wise: keep away from immoral people. it's not healthy.
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You wish, DrHirudo. Many of the developers never had a contract with Genesi or anyone,
they always did stuff as a hobby, yet if you see what they have developed in less than a
year you'll change your mind. No matter how much you want it, MorphOS is NOT over, it
WON'T leave you alone.
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@AmiGR
No matter how much you want it, MorphOS is NOT over, it WON'T leave you alone.
Amen to that. :-)
Coder
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Yes, Wayne, *you* did open Pandora's box...
1. We do not owe you anything. You had no contract and failed to perform the work required. After Paul's email and the review of the situation we decided you were seriously over-paid. No amount of name calling will change that.
2. There are others who unlike you we do feel need to be compensated for contributing something. These people include Thomas, Jennifer, David, Kermit and Nate. In Europe, there are others including Jacek, Grzegorz, Michal, Felix, David and Stefan. We have made a pledge to them and we will keep it. In fact, on that list every single one of them has received at least one partial payment (and some more) in 2004 with the exception of Kermit. As far as we are concerned that is the complete list. We have also fully paid many other people.
We came to visit you and Melissa in October 2004 and spent three days in Huntsville just to understand if you had the ability to really do what needed to be done. You were fully informed of the difficult situation. Your rants here only further confirm our opinion of your character, which unlike you we have not posted.
R&B
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bbrv wrote:
2. There are others who unlike you we do feel need to be compensated for contributing something. These people include Thomas, Jennifer, David, Kermit and Nate.
(http://www.rebirthman.de/kermit/kermit_big.jpg)
Does that mean I get paid soon Mr. Buck?
(http://www.stanford.edu/group/blocklab/Muppets/animal%20Drums.jpg)
WhAaAt aBoUt MEEE!?!? WhAaAt aBoUt MEEE!?!?
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it's not easy being Green(less).....
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@x56h34
LOL! :-)
Coder
-
Wayne did not have a contract.
Wayne was never an employee.
Read the email from Paul.
Wayne was paid far too much for far too little performance.
End of story.
R&B
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by bbrv on 2004/11/27 10:47:34
Wayne did not have a contract.
Wayne was never an employee.
So what IRS catagory did Wayne fall in then?
Dammy
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OK....now that I have read ALL the comments here...
I am Sorry, Wayne, that you had difficult times last year. Hope things turn out better next year.
I can't stop laughing from the Muppets pics joke. I'm sorry, but's that too funny. :lol:
Hey, Paul Adams, stop playing Superman for Bill Buck. He's your "Lex Luther" your greatest business partner in crime. Everyone knows that by now. Even people from the other news site which I will not say are commenting.
*sigh* I have to go now....I need to replace the battery in my car or else I'm going to have a bad Thanksgiving weekend for sure.
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@bbrv
I've read the words out of your mouths on the web. How many times have you told me that you own the Amiga OS? Why would I ever believe you? Wayne has never lied to me, just you.
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{post removed by admin: violation of posting guidelines}
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x56h34 wrote:
(http://www.stanford.edu/group/blocklab/Muppets/animal%20Drums.jpg)
WhAaAt aBoUt MEEE!?!? WhAaAt aBoUt MEEE!?!?
I thought that was Bill....
/ducks
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by bbrv on 2004/11/27 12:50:09
@Dammy -- work for hire consultant exactly as Paul explained.
IANAL, but since there was no contract (did Wayne have his own company to do a contract with?), Rule 84-74 (http://www.medlawplus.com/legalforms/instruct/revrul87-41.htm) or see 87-41 in abit easier to understand (http://www.ncarts.edu/forms/cashier/IRS.htm) guidelines of what his legal status was. To borrow a paraphrase often used with employment status as far as IRS is concerned, "If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's an employee."
Dammy
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I remember recently complaining about some things KMOS had promised but as yet not delivered, and in particular I complained about their failure to communicate with the Amiga community.
When I see the bickering about employees and pay going on here, which really should be kept behind closed doors, I now question my very own complaints!
I feel it is very very VERY unprofessional for the bosses of a company to bicker about employee pay with employees on a public forum and it makes a complete mockery of Genesi altogether.
I have one word to say about Genesi and this whole bickering subject.
AMATEUR.
Brian
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doodoohead, you are. We have never said we own AmigaOS.
Really? Care to explain how you thought you'd go about this (http://www.flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/98012.shtml) then?
Re: Genesi and AmigaDE lawsuit
bbrv. bbrv@genesi.lu.
24.234.204.153
What will happen next?
1. Genesi will enforce the "upgrade" clauses to AmigaOS 4.2 and beyond.
2. The Hyperion/Eyetech OS 4.0 Agreement will be declared "null and void and of no force or effect."
3. We will sublicense under the Agreement and the ruling.
We are so tired of some of the "idiots" in this community.
It is time to end all this.
R&B
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So what IRS catagory did Wayne fall in then?
Under the Table.
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by Argo on 2004/11/27 15:01:01
Under the Table.
That's an employee then, isn't?
Dammy
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Wow, more bullspit and backpeddling. I know I'm surprised. :shock: As I said though, since you continue in your slanted diatribe, here are a few more tidbits to jog your faulty memory.
- I had a contract. While even if only vague words, it is, and was still legally binding for the sum of "$5000 USD per month". It was an offer you made. You know it, I know it. A contract which was not fulfilled by you to that term. It was also confirmed, by you in writing that I was, in fact, a "regular employee" and furthermore that you failed in my contract to provide medical insurance as offered.
- You got working web sites. The very moment you did, I was fired without two months' back pay. Others are suffering the same thing. I don't consider a receiving a check with "nonsufficient funds" to be paid.
- There was NEVER, EVER a single "budget" established. Not a single member of the US Team had ever seen any such mystical beast. The magical mystery "budget" is an invention by you to justify screwing me (as well as other people). Multiple requests from me in the beginning (and at Amiwest) to discuss any such budget were ignored.
- There was NEVER a discussion that "the Web team be brought to Amiwest to address concerns with the sites". We were brought in to staff the show and expected to give spontaneous, last-minute unrehearsed presentations on the Pegasos 2 (a machine that NONE of us had even seen at that point since it had only been released the day before).
We (Kermit, me, Dave, and others) in fact stated repeatedly point blank that the Amiwest show would not bring any type of return on the investment and that we (Genesi) SHOULD NOT put a lot of money or people into it.
It was YOUR idea to bring everyone out (I certainly didn't invite Matt Sealey to come from England for a booty call with his boyfriend Ben) because you "need to continue trying to harness (or was that "harvest"?) the Amiga community for Pegasos development". Even at the end of the show, your comment to the entire team stating "If next year this isn't 'Pegasos-West' and Amiga Inc isn't dead, we've done something terribly wrong' was rather telling.
In regards to your opinions of my character, you're welcome to them. I'm sure you're about as happy with me (because I won't shut up about being screwed and watching you screw others) as I am with you for screwing me.
Like I said, the letter from "Paul" (written from your perspective) is full of factually-challenged drivel designed simply to cover your own ass against pending lawsuits. (Paul is a lawyer with a lawyer's mind, remember?) Reports from others being screwed by you specifically state that they are receiving the same treatment and lies against them. Your words to the contrary here ring as hollow as those on your Web sites.
Also as I said, I've already given up on getting the money that I am legally owed. I gave up on that long ago. I sincerely hope the others get what they are owed, but your handling of the current situation only reinforces my belief that anyone involved with you is (eventually) doomed. My only concern any more is trying to make sure that others within word-shot don't fall for your {bleep} to the point of getting hurt like we did.
Let me be VERY clear here to the others being subjected to this public discussion. Before anyone gets upset one way or the other, I am not protesting either the Pegasos, nor MorphOS, both of which are good products built by good (if not slightly egotistic) people. The exact same could be said of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4, but that's not the current subject.
Bill Buck however has done enough damage to this community with his continuably dishonorable actions against it's members. If anything, I vigorously protest the presence of Bill Buck in this community.
-
Wayne, you screwed yourself.
You did it here on this site and did it when you worked for Genesi.
Actions speak louder than words, Wayne.
We all stand before ourselves and our maker one day.
Best wishes,
Bill Buck
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Dammy,
According to the federal tax forms I received from Genesi (I believe it was called a 1099 form), I was an "independent contractor" (meaning I paid my own taxes). Receiving this form was a surprise because it was in direct contradiction to statements from Bill Buck himself that I was to be considered a "regular employee".
Wayne
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bbrv wrote:
Wayne, you screwed yourself.
He most certianly did; principally by agreeing to work for you, by the sounds of it.
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Bill,
"Only those who cannot defend their own actions invoke God or Nazis in a conversation." Netiquette rules. You lose.
I just find it interesting that rather than addressing the facts -- which are on my side -- you're invoking God. You sure you're not Bill McEwen?
I have no doubts of my actions while employed by Genesi. I did the best I could in an untenable situation. Working for you was a losing proposition from day one. Regrets? Yeah. Like I said, dealing with you, I've lost a lot. Far more than the average salary I was paid, even if you count the two months you {bleep}ed me out of. If I had known that you were already screwing other employees out of their paychecks before I was even hired, I would have thought twice. Using the Pretory situation as an excuse for screwing your employees is convenient, but irrelevant since you were still hiring people left and right at that point.
If anyone should have any worries in this instance about facing God one day, it's not me.
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Wayne . . .you know much better than me, the "military prone brain" of BB.
You can't trade with such a matter person.
His usual enviroment is : wars, battles and weapons.
He needs soldiers not employee.
Let him alone . . . attack him NOW, would be like to shot to the Red Cross.
He is damaging himself with his own statements.
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by Karlos on 2004/11/27 18:25:25 Quote: bbrv wrote: Wayne, you screwed yourself. He most certianly did; principally by agreeing to work for you, by the sounds of it.
By that measure, so have alot of talented and supportive people in this community.
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FrAmiga,
I agree. As I've said, I'm not responding to the subject, only to his posts containing continual attempts to rewrite historical truth in his own favor.
This is a situation that for me, is almost a year old. The money aspect is long-forgotten, and to be honest there were worse things which resulted because of this situation than the obvious loss of money. I just hate the fact that he's still doing the same thing to others (in particular at this time, David Gerber) and that people are still openly defending his actions. I'm not interested in posting further on this, only to defend myself against his barrage of lies.
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
According to the federal tax forms I received from Genesi (I believe it was called a 1099 form), I was an "independent contractor" (meaning I paid my own taxes).
Did Gensei give you 100% of your pay or did they withhold taxes, social security, etc?
I hope you didn't end up owing the IRS too... they're not very forgiving (so I've heard).
-
I'm really amazed that the Amiga Community has come this far with two companies like Genesi and Amiga, Inc. trying to run the show. I think it really proves just how user driven this movement is, even though those two have managed to go one way or the other to the point of internal fueding at times.
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Framiga wrote:
Wayne . . .you know much better than me, the "military prone brain" of BB.
It's obvious that you know nothing of the Military and insulting all who have served to protect you doesn't make you look clever.
Regards.
Edited by Argo: Personal Attack
-
When they paid me, which was usually a month late and with excuses (multiple lost transfers and "it's Thierry's fault", then bad checks), they did not take out any taxes, meaning I had to make a payment to the IRS in April for ~$9600 dollars.
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An Independant Contractor is like its own company. So, an IC gets paid with no deductions. It is their responcibility to pay them. Your basically an employee of yourself hiring yourself out. So, you have to withhold from your own paid amount State Taxes, Federal Taxes, Unemployment Tax, Social Security Tax, etc.
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Wayne
i know and i understand your situation and the one of the others dozens unpayed, used and deceived. IMHO, you have no need to justify with us.
We (at least me) know who really is BB.
.
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Darrin,
I believe you misunderstood the comment from FrAmiga. He is not insulting the Military at all. He is pointing out that Bill Buck's mindset is to see everything by "military strategies". You know, he sees people as pawns, not employees. He sees business situations as battles rather than potential means to an end.
Wayne
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Darrin wrote:
Framiga wrote:
Wayne . . .you know much better than me, the "military prone brain" of BB.
It's obvious that you know nothing of the Military and insulting all who have served to protect ungrateful filth like you doesn't make you look clever.
eh, don't lose focus. Framiga isn't the problem here. anyway, i suspect there is simply a language issue.
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Dear Darrin
no need to reply . . .your avatar speaks for you.
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Argo,
I do own my own company (business licenses and all), so I was at least partially prepared for the tax backlash. Much better than I would have been, had it not been for my now ex-wife's excellent planning for the situation.
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
When they paid me, which was usually a month late and with excuses (multiple lost transfers and "it's Thierry's fault", then bad checks), they did not take out any taxes, meaning I had to make a payment to the IRS in April for ~$9600 dollars.
Owch!!! I bet that REALLY didn't help your position. After several months with no paycheque, you probably were not in a good position to pay any taxes. :-(
Bank charges for NSF cheques no doubt added to you woes.
-
Well, if bbrv is seen flying to a large villa in the Carribean , never to be heard of again then these people are screwed.
If bbrv sticks around then these people have been slightly unlucky and slightly used. However if there is no money then there's NO MONEY! Build a bridge and get over it!
I must say I never felt screwed by Bill Mcewen for not getting a lousy t-shirt/$50 coupon after I heard he was driving a taxi cab to make ends meet.
I just hope bbrv can turn things round so they are in a position to mend a few bridges again. Amiga Inc got their chance with KMOS - lets hope genesi and the morphos team get theirs somehow.
I think people lose sight of the gamble that these people/teams/companies are taking by producing product for this niche community - gambling people always hype up their prospects. What made this episode appear all the more shocking was that the genesi 'machine' was so much more (and still is) professional looking - lets hope they get lucky and get the chance to redeem themselves. Let's face it, the only way people are going to get paid is if bbrv sells a LOT of pegasos boards.
-
sorry Colin_Camper but MONEY are one of the LAST problem for Genesi . . .beleive me.
-
you know much better than me, the "military prone brain" of BB.
I was thinking more along the lines of a lack of business ethics. Even war has rules. Not to mention proper business practices. Does Mr. Buck have a business degree?
-
@Colin,
This isn't about McEwen or Amiga Inc. They have their own problems and when they screw up, I'm sure we'll have a topic just for that subject. In the meantime, let's not get distracted.
Wayne
-
cecilia wrote:
eh, don't lose focus. Framiga isn't the problem here. anyway, i suspect there is simply a language issue.
Yeah, you're right. Sorry.
-
Framiga wrote:
Dear Darrin
no need to reply . . .your avatar speaks for you.
I will anyway, because I'm proud of my avatar.
-
Wayne wrote:
Darrin,
I believe you misunderstood the comment from FrAmiga. He is not insulting the Military at all. He is pointing out that Bill Buck's mindset is to see everything by "military strategies". You know, he sees people as pawns, not employees. He sees business situations as battles rather than potential means to an end.
Wayne
Yep, Sorry Wayne, sorry everyone, sorry FrAmiga. Kneejerk reaction. My itchy trigger-finger!!! Sorry...
-
sorry to you too Darrin :-) but when i speak about BB, i become in a bad mood.
-
Colin_Camper wrote:
However if there is no money then
darling, this is NOT simply about money.
It's about people lying and treating human beings like dog poo.
by way of comparison, let me tell you about Frank. He was the best boss/colleague I've ever known in my long career.
When we were working on Children of Dune there was some money problem (I don't recall the details).
Frank came into work one day with a long face and told me there was a problem and the best solution for time being was to give me $100 less a week. he was VERY upset by this.
more disturbed than I was. and do you know WHY I wasn't that disturbed?
Because Frank had come to me like a person and was completely HONEST with me. he treated me with RESPECT. And THAT is why I remained loyal to him. Why I would do any job he asked. and why I gave him 300% every single day.
When you treat people well - no matter who they are - you get back alot more than you give.
Frank was always straight with everyone. and everyone respected him.
I KNOW what it's like to be treated fairly and well and respected.
in this "Genesi" situation, there are a whole hord of people who have NOT been treated well. all anyone wants to do is prevent more damage.
just because I'm not a close friend of Wayne's doesn't mean I'm not completely repulsed by the way he is being treated.
I am, after all, a human being.
-
Darrin wrote:
:lol:
I don't think you have any "incoming" to hide from, people are just a bit wound up and prone to react without thinking fully.
-
I guess I was just trying to say that there are remarkable and striking similarities between the two woeful (red and blue)tales.
Seriously though, Wayne, do you think the pegasos/morphos goose is cooked?
If so, is Aros the only door open for morphos users who do not leave the Amiga scene altogether or do you now think there will be some cross-over to OS4. (Unlikely I would assume).
Maybe Morphos could save itself by going open source, X86 or both and charging an (AmigaForever like) price of $50. :-)
-
Framiga wrote:
sorry to you too Darrin :-) but when i speak about BB, i become in a bad mood.
That's OK. I'm just grumpy too. I have a stinker of a cold and my wife has one too so I'm not getty "any" tonight.
This whole situation is beyond a joke. So much money has been pissed away with in-house fighting when a joint effort would have achieved so much more.
I lived from paycheque to paycheque long enough to know that missing one can be the worst thing in the world. Missing 2 or three could spell the end of the world for someone. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
-
Karlos wrote:
:lol:
I don't think you have any "incoming" to hide from, people are just a bit wound up and prone to react without thinking fully.
Me included :-)
-
cecilia wrote:
darling, this is NOT simply about money.
Well, I suspected as much! Seriously I know what it feels like. I am a UK IT contractor and have had my fair share of rip offs and sharp practice. I have lost 2 weeks money here and 2 months money there. I take your point with your lucid account of Frank - there is always a human side to this farcical soap opera. Recently an agency did a runner with all the contractors wages - many people lost a couple of thousand pounds but several lost £30, £40 and £50k. It makes a good headline and forum thread but there are real people who are suffering there. I just hope they recover financially and keep their dignity (like Wayne) to fight another day!
-
Darrin wrote:
I lived from paycheque to paycheque long enough to know that missing one can be the worst thing in the world. Missing 2 or three could spell the end of the world for someone. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
A point often overlooked by people when they defend the non-payment of employees :-(
-
Is there any way i can return the Genensi T-shirts i got when I got married.
Somehow .. i dont want them anymore.
Kees
-
@Kees
Long time no see, sir! Pity it had to be in a thread like this :-(
-
by hnl_dk on 2004/11/26 1:30:32
Hope this is not just a plan to get rid of the missing payments (in an unmorally way).
I was thinking it, but wasn't going to say it.
It's called Corporate Restructuring to Better Manage Debt Load.
-
edited thread may cause confusion
I am still not much of a BBRV fan boy. Nor am I anybody's fan boy.
I think rather than blather on and on about who got screwed who siad what I think people if they really feel badly for all these people is to help out and do something positive
kgrach
-
bbrv wrote:
Wayne did not have a contract.
Wayne was never an employee.
Read the email from Paul.
Wayne was paid far too much for far too little performance.
End of story.
R&B
The story hasn't ended untill he's been paid. Why wouldn't you simply pay an underperforming employee what he's owed and then simply terminate the relationship?
I think the answer to that is you simply can't afford to pay. You say it's due to performance, but it appears it's simply a lack of ability to pay... and coincidentally, you lack the ability to pay.
I'm guessing that the "underperformers" can be picked out as the ones who want the money they are owed, and the performers who you state you plan to pay, are those who keep quiet.
I propose an experiment. Someone who is a performer and BB "plans to pay" should step up and complain about failure to pay and breach of contract. That person will be labelled an underperformer in two seconds flat.
Do you pay your lawyers? How have they performed for you?
-
That is a great idea T_Bone! :-) Please conduct the experiment and post ALL the information on this site. Please provide all "breach of contract" information, or anything you can, or Wayne can, or anyone else can for that matter. We cannot wait to see the results.
1. Surprise! The "performers" are still being paid. :-)
2. The Lawyers did a great job. And, BTW, if we there one peep out of you know who about anything concerning MorphOS, bplan or Genesi...they'll be back.
And, Darrin, climb out of this mess. You do not belong here.
R&B
-
P.S. kgrach, could you post some proof, any proof about any of the serious allegations you made. We are looking forward to the information you will document.
-
@BBRV
I am utterly amazed at the unprofessional way you treat former employees/contractors in public forums.
Your actions are despicable.
(http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_sick.gif)
---------------
redfox
-
@BBRV
edited Snip/ snip
kgrach
-
@bbrv
go suck lemons the only person screwing ppl here is you
-
@kgrach
No, you must not know what you talking about. The injunctions issued under false pretenses were removed. Further, we sold nearly all of our VisCorp stock and own all the VisCorp patents to this day. How did that happen? Guess you did not get the full story. How about you do a little more research and post something more than what just spews from your mouth next time.
BTW, who said Carl never did his job? We never did. And, check with Carl while you are at it. He got his last pay check.
Bill
-
From the Amiga History Archive:
http://amiga.emugaming.com/viscorp.html
From: Carl Sassenrath
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: From Carl Sassenrath
Date: 13 Nov 1996 19:50:02 GMT
Organization: Pacific Internet
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <56d8pa$i5e@north.pacific.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-200.pacific.net
Dear Amigans,
Many of you have been wondering what's happening with VIScorp, the Amiga, and why my name is no longer on the vistv web site.
I hope this is not too long-winded for you, but here is a brief summary of my story:
I joined VIScorp about a year ago as a consultant to help them create new system software for the Amiga. I believed at that time that they had the ability to take the Amiga into several new, huge markets around the world. They made many promises to me in order to get me to join the project.
In March 1996 VIScorp informed me that they planned to buy Amiga Technologies. The reason was simple: for the vast quantities of Amigas that they planned, it was cheaper to buy AT then to pay the royalty. It seemed to me that this could work, if they could come up with the money.
Over the months that followed, I made numerous suggestions to VIScorp regarding what they needed to do to support and further improve the Amiga. I even proposed a business plan centered around the Amiga, as it seemed to me that you CAN have an ALTERNATE computer for people who don't want PCs. After all, what would our cars be like if only one company produced them? The Amiga offered us a choice.
VIScorp never responded to my suggestions. Not once. In fact, they kept me totally in the dark as to what they were doing and what progress had been made on the AT deal. I never knew from day to day what was going to happen next.
By August I was starting to tire of VIScorp and its unkept promises to all of us. They were 110 days behind in paying me, and I was very disappointed in the whole mess that they had brought on the Amiga community, developers and dealers, and myself. It had become clear to me that VIScorp was not competent. I took a couple weeks off and went to Florida.
In September I tried to recruit RJ Mical to join the team. I put a lot of energy into it, as RJ was skeptical of VIScorp. I finally succeeded! Then, VIScorp blew him off. RJ and I couldn't believe it. What were they doing?
Finally, I decided to focus 100% on what they had originally hired me for: to create a TV set-top Amiga. Perhaps if we could build a good demo, VIScorp could convince one of its investors to contribute extra cash. By the end of September, Don, Steve, Jim, and I had finished a dazzling prototype of such an STB. In my opinion, it really showed off what the Amiga could do as a STB. The software for it was entirely written by Jim and I, because VIScorp had not been paying any of the other contractors.
After delivering the prototype, I never heard a word back. VIScorp was again far behind in payments. What were they doing? What had gone wrong? What was next?
Whatever it was, I didn't want to be part of it any longer. I've never seen such an idiotic, screwed-up, incompetent company (and I am saying it mildly). VIScorp was worse than Commodore, and I never thought that was possible. I took my name off the web site, vowing not to be a part of this lunacy.
So what can I say? Please don't flame me for doing this. I refuse to be part of such a sloppy situation, regardless of my love for the Amiga. Over the last 10 months I have heard from many of you, and have sent nearly 1500 personal email replies to you. All I can say is that I am sorry that I could not do more for you and our Amiga Computer.
I am unsure what the future holds for the Amiga. Perhaps VIScorp or some other company will scrape together enough cash to make the AT purchase. We can only hope.
As for my future, I am going to return to what I do best: operating systems and languages. You have not heard the last from me. I can imagine a system much better than the Amiga.... now to create it. Truely, only time will tell.
Stay in touch my friends.
Sincerely yours,
Carl Sassenrath
Ex-VIScorp OS Guy
carl@sassenrath.com
Permission granted to copy and repost.
Sounds familar some how...
-
@Wayne
(I certainly didn't invite Matt Sealey to come from England for a booty call with his boyfriend Ben)
:hat:
"If next year this isn't 'Pegasos-West' and Amiga Inc isn't dead, we've done something terribly wrong' was rather telling.
Good lord.
Coder
-
@Colin_Camper
after I heard he was driving a taxi cab to make ends meet.
I had no idea.
However if there is no money then there's NO MONEY! Build a bridge and get over it!
Sure when there is nothing you cannot get nothing but when you are waiting for a large sum of cash it's not easy to just get over it.
Coder
-
@Darrin
Yep, Sorry Wayne, sorry everyone, sorry FrAmiga. Kneejerk reaction. My itchy trigger-finger!!! Sorry...
You know the drill Darrin, drop down and give us 20! :-P
Coder
-
@BBRV
Sigh, I don't have time for this.
Bill this isn't helping your case or your company.
pmail me in private
kgrach
ps in no way is anything said here to be construed as an attack on morphOS or the pegasos!!!
-
Yep, Sorry Wayne, sorry everyone, sorry FrAmiga. Kneejerk reaction. My itchy trigger-finger!!! Sorry...
Oh the irony...
-
BBRV
No one in Genesi USA had a written contract afaik. Whether he was an employee or contract is not relevant. Verbal agreements are contract - of course not provable unless a witness is present. If you hire a guy in your company to sweep the floor @ $8.00 per hour and you fire the guy after 2 weeks because you didnt like his sweeping performance, this does NOT mean you do not owe said worker those wages. That is incorrect logic IMO.
magnetic
ps.. all the performers are NOT being paid presently
I will say from knowing you that you have alot of integrity and wish that you could pay all the outstanding Genesi debt. People must understand that after Pretory crash Genesi was unable to pay employees. This is understandable in the business world, especially in a startup company. ATM Genesi is trying to work from out of this and create strategic industrial partnerships in order to climb out of this situation. Good luck and hopefully it will happen. If anyone can make it happen you will.
-
Coder wrote:
@Wayne
"If next year this isn't 'Pegasos-West' and Amiga Inc isn't dead, we've done something terribly wrong' was rather telling.
Good lord.
Indeed...
-
Kees wrote:
Is there any way i can return the Genensi T-shirts i got when I got married.
Somehow .. i dont want them anymore.
Kees
WB!
You could always burn it I guess }:-).
-
@everyone
If you are going to post any allegations towards Genesi or BBRV, please provide proof otherwise don't continue to spread your lies.
When I read these posts I see that quite a lot of you have very one-sided and prejudiced viewpoints.
Is it fun to attack BBRV while you conceal your own business dealings and continually sweep them all under the carpet!
:crazy:
Your expectations for BBRV are so high that none of you could reach those expectations yourself. :-D
-
Given that I wasted 1/2 hour reading this thread, I'm going to waste another couple of minutes writing a reply.
Can we please all stop with the forum game BS? I don't know what anyone hopes to acheive, lord knows you must understand it will never be the truth!
And as for the following:
1. Holier than though business morality and ethics posters
Unless less you have run a company into bankruptcy (or close to it) your opinion of what otehr people should do with ther money, running their business has no weight.
2. My best friends mate once saw someone kick their friends dog...therefore it must be BBRVs fault or BBRV is the axis of evil etc.
I mean bringing Viscorp and Amiga Inc up after all this time....c'mon guys. BBRV ruined my marriage...c'mon, who is swallowing this stuff?
The only people who have any relevance at all are the accused and the accusers and they should conduct their bloody business in a professional manner between themselves and if terms cannot be reached and litigation is the only way then go for it and stop making this tiny community even smaller and more miserable tahn it already is.
Does anyone really believe the postings at morphos.net will really acheive anything? (Well, apart from starting another pointless forum game...?)
Will someone please post me the link to where the morphos statement can be navigated to on the Genesi website...I looked a couple of days ago and it did not be appear on many of teh pages I checked from the parent website.....or s this just more forum game BS?
Do all you 'holier than thou' types think blackmail is going to succeed or indeed is ethical business practice? Or are you whiter than white when it suits the situation?
Pissed off!
-
cecilia wrote:
darling, this is NOT simply about money.
It's about people lying and treating human beings like dog poo.
The situation you describe is common here in Canada unfortunately with many american corporations that come here. Not all american corporations are bad, in fact some a great.. but the ones that aren't good give america a bad reputation.
When we were working on Children of Dune
You worked on Children of Dune? Wow! :-D
Frank was always straight with everyone. and everyone respected him.
I KNOW what it's like to be treated fairly and well and respected.
in this "Genesi" situation, there are a whole hord of people who have NOT been treated well.
Perhaps the best remedy for this situation for for everyone involved to start treating the other involved with respect! :-)
-
Is there any way i can return the Genensi T-shirts i got when I got married.
Somehow .. i dont want them anymore.
Kees
Send them to me as a present for one year marriage-anniversary. I have an itch which tells me it will be a hot summer and I'll be needing them :)
-
Argh... For the last time... MorphOS is not dead.
-
by redfox on 2004/11/28 4:49:23
@BBRV
I am utterly amazed at the unprofessional way you treat former employees/contractors in public forums.
Your actions are despicable.
beleive me . . . in private "he" is even worse :-(
At least here "he" is replying.
-
@Framiga
beleive me . . . in private "he" is even worse
You are on the money list also?
Coder
-
@Coder
absolutely not . . . other personal issues.
-
@Framiga
absolutely not . . . other personal issues.
Ah the other long list.
Coder
-
Just thought I'd post my previous email corresponfance with BBRV as
that's what people seem to be doing here at the moment. I doubt much
of it is relevant but it might make some interesting reading for you.
At one point they say they need smart people like me on the team, I
found this quite amusing because they didn't really have a clue who I
wwas or what I do for a living. Of course really it was just flattery
to try and get me to buy a Pegasos board.
Also somewhere in there they suggest that I could try to get OS4
working on the Pegasos.
Anyway have fun reading it.
Hello Raquel
On 08-Jun-02, you wrote:
> Hi Robert, well if we can do it than certainly you can too!
>
> :)
>
> Do you understand what we are saying? We do not have anything against
> Amiga Inc. or Hyperion. We tried to work with them. Contrary to what
> they have stated, MorphOS is not derived from illegally obtained source
> code. The legal process will demonstrate this falsehood and it will
> happen soon. If they do not start the process already does it not make
> you pause and think? If they don't do it then we may anyway just to
> shut them up.
>
> We do not need Amiga Inc. or any of thei IP. We certainly do not need
> Ben Hermans!
>
> Thanks for your interest!
>
> R&B
>
> On Friday, June 7, 2002, at 05:15 PM, Robert E Mattin wrote:
>
>> Hello Bill,
>>
>> Here's my Email, I didn't want a million hate mails from some of the
>> more
>> rabid users.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Robert Mattin
>>
>>
>
>
Regards
Hello Raquel
On 06-Nov-02, you wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful email. We appreciate the time and effort it
> took to write.
>
> Please see our responses below...
>
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 06:17 AM, Robert E Mattin wrote:
>
>> Hello Raquel and Bill
>>
>> I have tried to be more impartial on the forums since your original
>> email.
>> However sometimes I see comments that try to discredit the efforts that
>> Amiga Inc/Hyperion/Eyetech are making for the Amiga community.
>> Sometimes
>> when you are passionate about something it is hard not get drawn into
>> the
>> petty arguments that occur in the Amiga community no matter how
>> objective
>> you try to be.
>
> We understand. Did you see our last post on this thread:
>
> http://amiga.org/forums/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3961&forum=1&28
>
> Initially, we sent Robert an email directly after he posted some ####
> on another amiga.org thread. In the end we think it sorted out pretty
> well. If people can respect other opinions and intelligent dialogue
> can reign this community has a future (both sides).
>
>>
>> At the time of our original correspondance I saw the MorphOS/Amiga
>> split as
>> a continuation of the PowerUP/WarpUP split that caused so much
>> conflict,
>> despair and damage within the Amiga community. I'm sure that the
>> market
>> would have been a lot healthier had things been resolved earlier on.
>> This
>> is the main reason I am so concerned about the current situation.
>
> This is true. It was the same kind of thing. But, honestly, we are
> happy to sell a Pegasos to anyone, no problem. They could probably
> develop OS4 alot more easily with a Pegasos.
>
>>
>> When I was at the show I tried to run a couple of Hyperion's games to
>> get
>> indication of what G3 hardware would offer in the way of performance
>> compared to my current A1200 PPC 210Mhz. Unfortunately I was unable
>> to
>> get them to work because of missing Rave3D drivers for Radeon and also
>> ChunkyPPC library was missing when I tried software rendering. This
>> along
>> with stability issues, left me with a somewhat bad impression of
>> MorphOS
>> and I have probably mentioned it in posts since the show. Other than
>> that
>> I am probably quite well behaved on the forums, mainly trying to just
>> point
>> out the facts when I think people are wrong about something.
>
> Well, remember, it is still in Beta and there are plenty of things to
> do besides Quake...;-)
>
> We showed something that does work -- NOT perfectly -- but, in
> comparison you have to agree much further advanced.
>
>>
>> I actually went to the show with Bobson and Axeman and to be honest
>> Bobson
>> seemed very open minded onb the way to the show. I think seeing the
>> Thendic team dressed up in suits set off some sort of alarm bells
>> within
>> him. He suddenly seemed to be very biased towards Thendic and MorphOS.
>
> Well, you can see that has all be sorted out. We have traded a few
> emails with Robert and really hope he has a successful first week on
> the new job.
>
> About the suits: you know our mentality is to dress like that out of
> respect to our potential customers...it has nothing to do with being
> "slick."
>
>>
>> As for me I am going to get an AmigaOne and OS4. I would probably have
>> considered a Pegasos but it seemed too uncertain as to wether OS4
>> would be
>> available. Maybe one day I might get MorphOS but for now OS4 is my
>> first
>> choice. I would certainly prefer not to have to buy Windows or Mac
>> (which
>> I consider a worse choice than Windows). I have also tried MorphOS on
>> my
>> A1200 but it doesn't really work very well with the Mediator busboard.
>> I
>> noticed that you seemed very interested in the Mediator systems at the
>> show
>> they really are quite impressive when you consider how old the A1200
>> design
>
> How about this:
>
> We will offer you a board with CPU for 400 Euros (not including tax)
>
> If you want us to configure it in a certain way we can discuss this (at
> a very attractive price).
>
> What we actually need now is a different kind of "betatester." We need
> intelligent users who understand computers and can accurately identify
> problems and potential fixes. We need people to test and try things.
>
>
>> is.
>>
>> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> We would like you to join the team and OF COURSE, you can try to get
> OS4 running on it when it is ready!
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 08-Jun-02, you wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Robert, well if we can do it than certainly you can too!
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> Do you understand what we are saying? We do not have anything against
>>> Amiga Inc. or Hyperion. We tried to work with them. Contrary to what
>>> they have stated, MorphOS is not derived from illegally obtained
>>> source
>>> code. The legal process will demonstrate this falsehood and it will
>>> happen soon. If they do not start the process already does it not
>>> make
>>> you pause and think? If they don't do it then we may anyway just to
>>> shut them up.
>>>
>>> We do not need Amiga Inc. or any of thei IP. We certainly do not
>>> need
>>> Ben Hermans!
>>>
>>> Thanks for your interest!
>>>
>>> R&B
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 7, 2002, at 05:15 PM, Robert E Mattin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Bill,
>>>>
>>>> Here's my Email, I didn't want a million hate mails from some of the
>>>> more
>>>> rabid users.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Robert Mattin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Robert Mattin.
>>
>>
>> P.S. is it really to late for you guys to come to an agreement. I
>> know that
>> there are a lot of factors involved and and not everyone in the MorphOS
>> team want to come to an agreement. To some extent you're hands are
>> probably tied but things would be better if everyone worked together.
>>
>> If you share this view then keep trying to work at it.
>
> We will don't worry. We are actually hoping that the thread Robert
> started may lead somewhere positively to bring the two groups together.
>
> Best regards and thanks again for the email,
>
> Raquel and Bill
>
>
>
Regards
Hello Raquel
On 07-Nov-02, you wrote:
> Hi Robert!
>
> See our notes below...
>
> On Tuesday, January 3, 1978, at 11:59 PM, Robert E Mattin wrote:
>
>> Hello Raquel and Bill
>>
>> On 06-Nov-02, you wrote:
>>
>>> How about this:
>>>
>>> We will offer you a board with CPU for 400 Euros (not including tax)
>>>
>>> If you want us to configure it in a certain way we can discuss this
>>> (at
>>> a very attractive price).
>>>
>>> What we actually need now is a different kind of "betatester." We
>>> need
>>> intelligent users who understand computers and can accurately identify
>>> problems and potential fixes. We need people to test and try things.
>>>
>>
>> This is a very generous offer and I am seriously considering it.
>
> Good, you think about it. We can break the payments down into two
> months if you need at little help with that. As we said, we need smart
> guys working with the system and you qualify...;-)
>
>> I have
>> already budgeted for an A1 on the basis of not having any work but that
>> involves partly dismantling my A1200 for It's Voodoo 3 and a hardrive.
>> I
>> have already committed to making this purchase.
>> A meeting tommorrow should guarantee 3 weeks of paid work between now
>> and
>> christmas but really I need to get a steady job before before I can
>> make a
>> final decision on this matter. I also have a car that needs to be
>> taxed
>> and put through It's MOT test this month.
>>
>>>
>>> We will don't worry. We are actually hoping that the thread Robert
>>> started may lead somewhere positively to bring the two groups
>>> together.
>>>
>
> Hey, see what happened an ANN? Check out the "Rant" from AmiFan and
> all the comments -- even Ralph Schmidt posted.
>
>>
>> The amiga community definately has to be brought together for success
>> of the
>> platform. If I were a prospective new user and I saw some the posts on
>> ann.lu and amiga org I would probably be put off by all the nonsense.
>
> Here we agree COMPLETELY!
>
>> I
>> also beleive that Thendic and Amiga Inc working together would
>> strengthen
>> the market and could make the difference between success and failure.
>> Of
>> course the main obstacle here is Amiga Inc's objection to MorphOS this
>> has
>> got to be the greatest challenge. Of course if Amiga and Thendic were
>> to
>> build some sort of alliance most disputes within the community would
>> simply
>> cease.
>
> We think Amiga Inc. is about to go into hibernation permanently. In
> the meanwhile, Hyperion will be left carrying the only true Amiga
> banner. We do not feel Eyetech really is because the truth is that the
> Teron is the AmigaOne. The BIOS differences do not make it another
> board. OK, that is our opinion. Anyway, if you think it would help we
> could offer Hyperion a Pegasos if they agree to port OS4 to the
> platform. With Amiga Inc. out of the way this could be possible. What
> do you think of something like this:
>
> "The Thendic/bplan Team would like to announce that they will gladly
> provide Pegasos mainboards to Hyperion OS4 Developers to insure that
> the new OS will have a dedicated hardware platform for the future."
>
> We should probably wait to announce this until after Mai announces we
> are their new systems integration partner -- EXCLUSIVELY. (That is
> still a secret, but you will see the details soon).
>
>>
>>
>>> Best regards and thanks again for the email,
>>
>> Thank you too for your email and also for showing that you do care
>> about the
>> Amiga community.
>
> We do!
>
>>
>>> Raquel and Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Robert Mattin.
>>
>>
>> P.S. I will be contacting Amiga Inc and other parties with regards to
>> co-operation in the community. You can't just hope things will turn
>> out
>> for the best sometimes you've got to get involve yourself. I will
>> probably
>> be throwing more questions at you in the new future.
>
> OK, you do that and post something positive on the ANN thread we
> mentioned and let's keep the positive momentum spirit going!
>
> Email us anytime -- sometimes it just takes longer to answer...;-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Raquel and Bill
>
>
Regards
Hello Raquel
On 07-Nov-02, you wrote:
> Hi Robert, how do you like this ANN post (please help us get the word
> out and make a positive comment):
>
> Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 2 of 2
> Posted by Raquel and Bill (212.198.0.93) on 07-Nov-2002 06:06:58
>
> As a caveat to this interview, and in the positive and constructive
> spirit that seems to be flowing back into this community (see AmiFan
> "Rant" below), we would like to offer Hyperion a Pegasos with our
> complements.
>
> When Ben Hermans visited Thendic-France in February 2002 we provided
> him with CyberStormPPC documentation in hope of assisting with the OS4
> development and we took him to lunch. If Ben is willing to come back,
> we will take him to lunch again and give him a Pegasos. As the Pegasos
> was developed by the same team that developed the CyberStormPPC, it
> seems the least we can do.
>
> We hope that this will insure that OS4 is ready for the Pegasos and
> that this gesture may in some way assist Hyperion in advancing the
> development, which when completed will be welcomed by many Amigans.
>
> We hope this makes our position clear.
>
> @Ben
>
> We have a Pegasos for you. Please come pick it up and let's bring this
> community back together!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck
Regards
-
@thread
(http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//screams.gif)
-
Darth_X wrote:
When we were working on Children of Dune
You worked on Children of Dune? Wow! :-D
yes indeed. and damn proud of it. and I'm proud to have work with a great team of people!
Frank was always straight with everyone. and everyone respected him.
I KNOW what it's like to be treated fairly and well and respected.
in this "Genesi" situation, there are a whole hord of people who have NOT been treated well.
Perhaps the best remedy for this situation for for everyone involved to start treating the other involved with respect! :-)
To get respect from me, you have to earn it. Frank (and others) earned it.
The Great Isaac Asimov said:
"And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning."
I've worked Very hard to get where I am and people like Frank respected that from day one. and that is one of the reasons he RE-hired and RE-hired and RE-hired me for jobs - including the ones that could potentially win awards.
We mutually respected each other. and that makes for a wonderful working environment. And that's when real creativity can flourish. I knew I could depend on Frank to do his job and he could depend on me. It was unspoken.
How often has a person said to you: "When I get this next big job, YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON I'M CALLING"
There is no better compliment. Well, Frank said that often.
-
">>> What we actually need now is a different kind of "betatester." We
>>> need
>>> intelligent users who understand computers and can accurately identify
>>> problems and potential fixes. We need people to test and try things."
fantastic attempt!!!
"a new kind of betatester" = for free :-(
just saved . . . .
-
@red:
yep. Very much so.
-
Can I just say that ITS VERY UNDERHANDED TO POST PRIVATE EMAILS TO PUBLIC WEB FORUMS. Same for IRC Logs or PMs.
magnetic
ps. Of course there are times when it is needed however.
-
@ Magnetic
Well The first time I recall it happening (though obviously it wouldn't been the first time it did happen) was when Thendic released the A Inc e-mail threatening them with legal action.
In my opinion this should never have been made public, obviously it was intended to stir up flame wars and a divide in the community.
If Bill Buck can do it then why shouldn't I. I'm merely following the example set by him. I did keep these e-mails to myself for qwuite some time.
I doubt there is anything particularly harmful in there anyway. Though I did like the one about them being MAI's exclusive systems integration partner.
-
Repost
Looking back I think, I should take my own advice.
If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
These long venting threads while carthartic are not really helpful to anyone.
I think rather than blather on and on about who got screwed who said and did what.
Action speaks louder than words.
I think if people really feel badly for these injured parties. They should find away to help out and do something positive.
Helping others, not burning them at the stake is what communities are about.
Rather than mud-sling come up with way's to help the injured parties.
Email, find out the different parties grievances and find away to get them to come to some common ground.
Ignore the trolls they will get bored and go away eventually
Respectfully yours,
kgrach