Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: on February 14, 2003, 11:40:00 PM
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I am in a bit of a dilemma (and im sure im not alone)....
Which should i go for? A1 or Pegasos.
Up until WOASE last year i was firmly entrenched in the A1 camp, saving to buy an A1 (I am also a member of the 'club').
I saw Pegasos, and MorphOS at the show and was very impressed. Gensi (Then Thendic) had a fantastic and professional presence at the show and i Like the board very much, a lot smaller than the A1 boards and i like the fact that if i buy the G3-600 now, i can easily upgrade by swapping the cpu module unlike the A1 G3-SE (Yes, I know a 75% trade-in has been offered for people upgrading from A1-SE to A1-XE)
Im also put off by the price difference, the A1 G3-SE being over £100UKP more than Pegasos.
The other thing is that MorphOS is here right now, albeit in a somewhat incomplete form.
I think that the feature list of AmigaOS4 is very impressive and *IF* it comes out will blow MorphOS away. But it would be nice to think that some day an agreement could be reached in which Genesi will be granted a License to port AmigaOS4 to Pegasos.
I cant help feeling that Genesi have got it together a lot better than Amiga, an whilst I am a big Amiga fan im not sure i can justify the extra cost of the A1 just to get the Amiga name.
I appreciate that with this it post may seem like i've made my mind up but i truly havent. I would like to hear the views of you guys. What do people who have these machines already think?
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I suggest you wait for OS4, and then compare the two.
No since in rushing to morphos only to find that you really should have waited.
Then again, maybe OS4 won't be as good as expected.
Tough choice huh?
I'd personally wait though.
Then you won't have to listen to all the hype about one or the other, but you can see with your own eyes which suits you better.
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Basically, if you want to be sure that you will be able to run OS 4 (if, when, whatever) then you will have to go for the A1s, simple as that.
There is nothing wrong with them, mine (G3-SE) works fine, nothing wrong with the pegs either but one does not know if they ever will be able to run OS 4 and thats what i am waiting for anyway...
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I would go for the A1. I think AmigaOS4 will be better than MOS (based on their respective featurelists and teams for each product), and considering the current relationship between Genesi an Amiga, I don't think AOS for Pegasos is coming anytime soon. Furthermore, I believe that AmigaOS has a better chance of survival than MOS.
The Pegasos looks nice, and it is more attractively priced, but without AmigaOS, I would not invest money in it.
Just my opinion, hope I haven't offended anybody too much. :-)
Kay
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@Kay
You know, based the message I read the other day, I had a question for you, as you mentioned feature lists again as a reason to choose:
What particular elements of the AOS feature list did you like verses the MOS feature list, as in what did AOS offer you in that list that MOS didn't? Just curious about specifics here.
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If you are not in hurry I'd suggest you to wait some time to see where they are going. But not forever in case 'something finally happens'. There have been so many promices and so many delays (with lame excuses) that some day each of us muct make decision what to do with those.
There are no point ordering system parts early either. All other parts (besides OS and Motherboard) are standard parts, so their prices will come down while waiting those main components of new system. I know it's a nice way to 'show dedication' to system, but is mostly waste of money ...
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> What particular elements of the AOS feature list did you like verses the MOS feature list, as
> in what did AOS offer you in that list that MOS didn't?
Well, it's been a while since I formed that opinion, and I can't be arsed to re-read both lists just to give a detailed defense of it to a Thendic employee. Still, I think I can give a few keywords. Good stuff in AOS:
-Warp3d NOVA
-P96 (as opposed to CGX)
-That new TCP/IP stack ("Roadshow"?)
-Reaction rather than MUI
-VAA (Virtual Addressing Architecture, which could be used for one of my dream features: transparent AGA emulation (I asked HJF about this))
-Advanced AmiDock
Anyway, there might be more, this is just what I could pull out of the hat right now. Bottom line for me anyway, is that I felt more impressed after reading the AOS list than I did after reading the MOS list.
> Just curious about specifics here.
Yeah, I'm sure curiousity is your primary motivation...;-)
Kay
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Heh...
No doubt.
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I would go straight for the Pegasos (as a mater of fact I am going very soon).
It is here and now, it has a better design, it keeps combatibility with most of the classic Amiga applications, it is based on a new and much better and modern technology (MorphOS , Quark) while maintanes the classic Amiga look and feel.
As for the people behind it, based on facts, Genesi not only delivered but they seem to handle the whole thing much more profesionally than their competitors (both 3 of them).
More than that, I believe that they know the Amiga platform much better than AInc, Eyetech and Hyperion together because they have been in the Amiga buisnes way more.
Based on facts again, I don't like Amiga Inc., their continues lies, their way of handling the situation and most importantly I don't like their Amiga "master plan" (AmigaDE, AA, Microsoft relations, etc.).
Generally, I like Pegasos and MorphOS much more than AmigaLinux or AmigaNowhere in ANY aspect, plus I find Genesi *more* Amiga than Amiga Inc.
My opinion always...
Turrican
PS. Oh and MorphOS looks a thousand times more beatifull than the crapy AmigaOS 4 pictures till now :-D
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Speaking of HYPE!
Wow!!!
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@Droid just wait & see when both are here before buying.
At least then you will not be upset with your choice.
For some ppl its the OS wich each will run that is the decider.
Get the OS you want but not the Hardware.
Get the Hardware you want but the OS.
Thats just the way things turn out alot of the time.
@Downix Your running a Huge risk at running this thread way oftopic.
this thread is to reply to the poster of the thread not a feature list debate.
Kay gave his reason for waiting thats all.
All do we all have to explain & justify our reasons for waiting to you.
You should start a new thread.
& then i would not have to stumble on such debates.
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@alkemyst
You notice I didn't respond to Kay's comments, nor critique them nor any of that, even tho there were opening for it. I am not going to debate him here, just asked a simple and direct question in order to clarify things that related to the topic. In fact, bringing this up further can tear this thread off-topic.
To get things back onto topic, pick the hardware you like the best. In my experience, that's the Pegasos (and I'm not saying that just because I work for Genesi. I wouldn't work for them if I didn't like their products). The Teron boards just were difficult to work with, hard to fit, and had annoying features I just didn't like, such as IDE port placement and the fact that the CPU card sits on top of the northbridge (which can block airflow).
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In fact, bringing this up further can tear this thread off-topic.
But if you did not bring it up the risk in the first place then i would not have said anything.
That my whole point.
Dont leave things open to IT.
Me & many other are getting fedup with Amiga.org turnning into Ann.
Is it to much for me to want to read a thread wich is on topic like they used to be years ago.
You notice that some threads a get very few viewings & that cos ppl are not really intrested in that topic from the outset.
Last posting about this on this thread.
If you cant Take The ReAction Then Dont Start The Action.
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@Alkemyst:
Your running Huge risk at running this thread way oftopic.
Off topic where? I'm sorry, if the topic had been "Pegasos or Teron" then, yes his comments would have been "off topic."
However, the topic is A1, which is a specific implimentation of a Teron for AmigaOS 4.0, and the A1's sole reason for existance. Also, the original poster did cite the "feature lists" as a part of his decision making process. By two facts of the matter, Downix was on topic. He may have motives beyond just curiosity, but he hasn't crossed any lines.
Please cease attempts to start a flame war.
@Downix: Word your questions a bit more carefully. It's not just what you say, but how you say it.
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Droid wrote:
i can easily upgrade by swapping the cpu module unlike the A1 G3-SE (Yes, I know a 75% trade-in has been offered for people upgrading from A1-SE to A1-XE)
Im also put off by the price difference, the A1 G3-SE being over £100UKP more than Pegasos.
The A1-G3SE is no longer on offer: the G3XE (with the CPU module and running at 800 MHz) is now the bottom of the range machine.
I cant help feeling that Genesi have got it together a lot better than Amiga, an whilst I am a big Amiga fan im not sure i can justify the extra cost of the A1 just to get the Amiga name.
It might be worthwhile thinking about what you really want here. Buying an AmigaOne is not just buying the Amiga name, you are also making a choice of OS. Which do you really want, bearing in mind that while both will retain some backward compatibility with 68K apps (using different methods), the PPC apps for one platform won't run on the other; at least until such time as the OS is legally and officially ported (no racism here, I'm still referring to both AOS and MOS)?
You might also want to look at the companies behind the products (both high risk products, as they're selling to niche markets). Who are their partners, if any? Do you trust them? Can you see - over and above the Amiga fanaticism we all proudly display ;-) - a real future for the product? The bigger the market, the more likely it is that the price will drop and software support increase.
Are you prepared to betatest both hardware and software? That's the current situation with the Pegasos.
Are you prepared to play around with Linux while waiting for AOS4? That's the current situation with the AmigaOne, but at least it does have 2 Linux distros working and at least one more on the way: I've just learnt that there are still serious problems with the Linux kernel on the Pegasos.
And, possibly most important of all: can you really afford one right now?
I've probably put you off both, more fool me, but waiting just a little longer to decide won't hurt. Try to weigh the pros and cons of each as objectively as possible, and leave the cash in a savings account until you're happy with your choice.
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@anarchic_teapot
Be fair, you aren't beta-testing the Pegasos board
anymore, it is pretty solid by all accounts. MorphOS
has work to be done sure.
If I am remembering right Pegasos has at least
two linux distros working.
I've just learnt that there are still serious problems with the Linux kernel on the Pegasos.
Lest I start the anti-Fud machine care to provide
a link to tha tor some kind of technical explanation
that existing Pegasos owners can verify?
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Hi Rose, thanks for bringing up the price issue! ;-)
We will be offering the next batch of boards through the channels we have used in the past AND through the Phoenix Developer Consortium. The price for Phoenix members who are participating in the quasi-sourceforge relationship with Genesi is $299 for the Pegasos mainboard with CPU.
The new cases will come only with the Pegasos configured according to a certain specification (we had to "bend" a few things to get everything in there!).
Best regards,
R&B :-D
P.S. Yes, Rose, that is a great idea -- do some research on the companies involved! :-P Our BDO (Pretory/Thendic) and PWC (Genesi/bplan/Thendic-France) Auditors will be happy to speak with you! Also, no FUD please -- Debian, SuSE, Mandrake and Gentoo all run fine (even YDL2.1). Not to mention OpenBSD, which we received our first screenshot of last night...;-)
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@Alkemyst
@Downix Your running a Huge risk at running this thread way oftopic.
To be honest I find it quite interesting, as it is the OS that is making me unsure what to do.
If these guys can put up good arguments as to why each OS is best, i'd like to hear them
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@Droid
Best advice I can give you, apart from telling you to
buy both boards, is to wait until March 20th, then
if AOS4 isn't out for A1 owners buy MorphOS/Pegasos.
Why? Because by then there wont be anything other than a miniscule bunch of fanatics who are prepared
to wait any more for AOS4. I certainly won't and will
start bleating loudly for MorphOS on the A1.
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Don't get an A1 unless you have money to burn and love Linux (since thats all you'll be able to run on it for ages yet). Otherwise get a Pegasos, which you can start using right away with MorphOS.
If you really want to run OS4 when (if) it comes out it'd be cheaper to buy a Teron PX board from Terrasoft and an OS4-enabler kit from KDH or Vesalia than it would be to buy an actual A1, thanks to eyetech's rip-off prices.
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@Lando
Don't get an A1 unless you have money to burn and love Linux (since thats all you'll be able to run on it for ages yet).
Well in theory "a few more weeks".
Otherwise get a Pegasos, which you can start using right away with MorphOS.
True.
If you really want to run OS4 when (if) it comes out it'd be cheaper to buy a Teron PX board from Terrasoft and an OS4-enabler kit from KDH or Vesalia than it would be to buy an actual A1, thanks to eyetech's rip-off prices.
OS4-enabler kits have not been proven to work on
Teron PX board, nor have I seen definate confirmation of this from any source ( but a lot of
rumour ). Is yours just speculation too or can you
point to somewhere where someone has actually
confirmed that an "OS4 enabler kit" exists and will
work on non A1 boards?
Secondly, the "rip off prices" the last time I looked were not so rip off at all ( given the wrong board was put up by Mai originally ). Can you do the maths
breakdown for us?
I would guess say a TeronPX would be about 10% cheaper bought direct plus shipping costs and local taxation costs.
MAI are selling Teron CX Mai sells Teron CX for 500 USD (http://www.mai.com/sales/index.html)
Eyetech sell it at 576 USD ( at todays currency conversion rate of 1.6 dollars to the pound ).
Thats a 15% hike, not far off the direct margin.
I just looked into shipping costs, It would cost me 45 dollars to get UPS to ship from there to me. So not that much of a hike after all.
Finally there is the AmigaOS4 cost on top of that - the so called "enabler" which was given away with the cost of the board but now is not ( apparently ).
The prices aren't that different, the cost is not that
much cheaper overall and at the moment what we would be missing from the CX is unknown.
So calling it a rip off is a bit strong.
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(duplicate)
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Hi Doid.
Don't let anyone here (including me :-) ) sway your decision. Firstly ignore all the crap flung about by the various companies, it's very hard to judge what is truth, marketing hype, spin, or pure FUD anymore. Concentrate on what YOU want.
I gathered you had a go on one the pegasos at WOASE, did you like it? Did you feel as if the system could provide what you need/want?
Talk to existing users, ignoring of course the zelots. I'd suggest talking to Spidey (Pegasos) and Coder (A1) both will give you a fairly balanced view on each system (although Coder won't be able to comment on OS 4 until he gets it). It's quite sad, but you really have to be careful who you try to get info from. There are so many zelots about for both sides. Steer well clear of people working on either project, selling either or producing software for either and most of all Bill (B/Mc) worshippers/haters.
If you really are torn between the two wait longer (but obviously not forever) before making that decision, and compare the two properly. This is a large (for most people) amount of money we're talking about here, and should be carefully considered.
But at the end of the day, only YOU can decide :-D
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@DaveP
is to wait until March 20th, then if AOS4 isn't out for A1 owners buy
MorphOS/Pegasos.
That's an opinion I can clearly support. ;-)
@Droid
Please feel free to ask us Pegasos-owners specific questions which
could help you to come to a decision. Generally I think that OS4 will
sooner or later find its way officially to the Pegasos as well. (And
I'm looking forward to test it on my Pegasos then as well.) But of
course there's no guarantee for this now. It's just based on common
sense. Anyway, if I were you, I'd just consider what would be easier
to me: waiting many monthes more for OS4 (and given the current state
of their competitors with the headstart I'd say that might be many,
many, MANY monthes until a real end-user release) or accepting those
few points you might like less from MorphOS's feature-list compared to
the OS4-featurelist.
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Note: We will also be extending the same pricing to user groups through Phoenix. Here are two examples:
ASUM (http://asum.asso.fr/)
SPUG (http://www.dijidesign.com/spug)
:-D
And, we will sponsor Demo Sceners! Have a look at:
Equinoxe (http://equinoxe.m4nkind.com/index.php?lang=en)
Go Pegasos!
R&B :-)
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>Best advice I can give you, apart from telling you to
>buy both boards, is to wait until March 20th, then
>if AOS4 isn't out for A1 owners buy
>MorphOS/Pegasos.
Good idea. Well it'd be even better that everyone
who can afford it/has the time should go to Cebit and
compare both solutions (OS4/AmigaOne and
MorphOS/Pegasos), then sleep one night and decide
on March 20th, the first day after Cebit :-)
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To be honest I find it quite interesting, as it is the OS that is making me unsure what to do.
If these guys can put up good arguments as to why each OS is best, i'd like to hear them
here is the Os4 feature list topic thread
http://amiga.org/forums/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5661&forum=1#77756
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A realtime video of morphos in action.
Let's have it.
Show us what you got.
Some of us never leave the house, and all of our imformation comes from the internet.
Let's have the video please.
Enough reading opinions.
Give us a narrated video of morphos in action.
And please make it at least 10 minutes long.
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I'd buy A1 if I had the money but to be honest I'd advise you to wait until both are out. Who cares if OS4 takes a few more months?! That wouldn't make sense, to invest all that money after waiting so much time, without knowing both products. Well if you're on top of the fence that is... :-D
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as ive said a 1000 times before im getting an a1 g4 xe i like the mount rainer support of os4 because i have a yamaha cdwriter wich supports this i also like it because hyperion are commited to making the os work without releasing something that is full of bugs.I have nothing against the peggy it does also look good but i dont like the small board with its poor layout with everything close together i bet it runs a lot hotter than a1,s open well desighned board.besides no os4 for peggy :-) :-?
i ve just downloaded and viewed that amiga and retro video and morphos does look very good and seems to work well and still has a look and feel of amiga os ,also check out the commadore one a modern c64 also witness a c64 web browser in action great video. :-D
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Hey all! To enjoy Phoenix membership and a $299 Pegasos just email me with some details of ID, and dev interests. Send to:
greenboy@nogreeneggspam-phinixi.com
The infrastructure to process requests and membership is not yet in place so we have to do it the old-fashioned labor intensive way. Phoenix is next on the list to get a makeover for a web-integrated communication and groupware development system (though we are already testing Tiki [http://tikiwiki.sourceforge.net/] after trying quite a few wikis, etc). We are likely to be integrating GForge [http://gforge.org/] as well.
I'll process emails within a day or two of your email (at worst!) and you will be subscribed with your supplied email address to the Phoenix GENERAL and ANNOUNCEMENT mail lists, where you will be kept aware of purchase timeline details.
We plan to make Phoenix the campus and nexus for ALL THIRD-PARTY free and commercial development under on multiple OSes for Pegasos and future Genesi products. Within Phoenix's long-held, expanded definition of "developer", anyone who is able to contribute as webmaster, content provider, financier, entrepreneur, reseller, document builder, reporter/journalist, coder, leader, etc, is ELIGIBLE. Thus the mention of USER GROUPS and The Scene : }
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Hey, that's Asha's work.... I'd know that one (the Phoenix pic) anywhere. I miss the good ole days on Compuserve...she was a joy to talk with.
Oops, that was way OT.
@Mountain_Myst
See this news item for links to video. (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43994) It's a big download, but worth it. And MOS is looking good there (hate to say it but it's true).
@Amigamad
i ve just downloaded and viewed that amiga and retro video and morphos does look very good and seems to work well and still has a look and feel of amiga os ,also check out the commadore one a modern c64 also witness a c64 web browser in action great video.
Gotta agree with you on this one, all except for the "feel" part. (How did you do that??) :-D The Pegasos running MOS looked very fast and responsive. And that blew my mind when I saw the C64 surfing the web!