Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: asian1 on February 14, 2003, 12:23:30 PM
-
Search exhibitor (http://www.cebit.de/search_ap)
Hi
I searched for the word "Amiga" on the exhibitor list on CeBit 2003, but I cann't find any information (Feb. 14, 2003).
Have Amiga Inc book a place on the exhibition?
Do they plan to register one / two weeks before the exhibition?
What is the location / number of their booth? Will they display their products inside other company's booth?
Is it Microsoft or Orange's booth?
Thank's.
-
Try searching for Hyperion...
Wrong Hyperion... :-(
-
At least Amigo Technologies will be there :-P .
-
Hyperion does show up.......mesa like!! :-D
-
Maybe A. inc will use Microsofts` stand again
-
Hmm, I don't think the MS stand is the place to launch a new desktop.
The next CeBit is in Sydney, in May. Anyone want to put money on a delayed launch in May? :-D
tony
-
No hyperion doesnt show up, at least not 'our' hyperion.
-
I wonder what form of OS4 will be showed there. What we all expect is the A1 running OS4. Not complete maybe but showable. If they would I think we will all be really happy.
Coder
-
No hyperion doesnt show up, at least not 'our' hyperion.
No, but they do share a web page together. :-P
http://www.hyperion-software.com/ (http://www.hyperion-software.com/)
Wonder if there is a connection between the two?
-
>Wonder if there is a connection between the two?
Not really. Hyperion Solutions only sued the "old" Hyperion which resulted that Hyperion is now called Hyperion Entertainment and doesn't have http://www.hyperion-software website anymore.
-
http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/nav.html
anyway, wasnt it said somewhere that AOS4 and a1 was to be shown at cEBIT??? have i only dreamt this? ...hmmm
pretty sure its stated somewhere.
-
>CeBit March 2003
Bill McEwen Statement on Nov. 2002 (http://os.amiga.com/corporate/111902-exposure.shtml?PHPSESSID=0e69e6e0bf4783bbb5f49190942d1cce)
"The first of these shows will be the official launch of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4.0, to occur at the CeBit show in Germany in March (and before anyone asks, this does not mean this is the release date for AmigaOS4.0, it means that CeBit will be the public launch of it).
Commitments have already been given to attend the SINTEP show in Toulouse, France in April 2003, and at least one of the Micromart shows in Birmingham, UK."
-
I hope there will be some news this month or in march.
I have always had the highest respect for Hyperion. And i still believe that they were/are the right persons to give us OS4. And i still support them.
But there comes a time that something has to be released. There comes a time that they should finish it, have a beta (on AOne), show it to people. Somehow, i've got the feeling that OS4 isn't even booting on AOne yet (although we can't be sure of that, but if it was, i think they would be telling us).
It has been one year and two months. Somehow, shouldn't the moment come that this project is in its ending phase? At the moment, we have no clue at all about it. Is it still going? Is it near the ending? Is it months or years away. The wait is hard and long... I keep wondering if this project will eventually succeed or fail like everything Amiga in the last 7 or so years.
As said, i still hope for the best. But i find it difficult having not even the thiniest bit of news about OS4. I wonder if this is a good sign or a bad sign. :-?
-
But i still have confidence...
It's always easier to put people down than to encourage them. It must be a really hard task for the Frieden Bros. You have to be realistic here, see the financial situation, see the low number of people working on the project,... I still think it is a very brave attempt, and an attempt because of love for the Amiga computer. Otherwise, you don't embark on such a mission...
So to all people involved, i wish you a lot of courage and fighting spirit.
I can take the other road, be pessimistic, slagging them off. But who am i to judge? Gateway had tons of cash and they managed NOTHING at all, same for Escom...
I'm realistic. But this doesn't stop me encouraging people who deserve it.
-
Hey give the people time, is it better to have a buggy AOS version or a perfect one? Now that all this time has passed one can wait a little more for the OS to be shinny when it comes out...
-
Jose:
"Hey give the people time, is it better to have a buggy AOS version or a perfect one? Now that all this time has passed one can wait a little more for the OS to be shinny when it comes out..."
I agree. BUT.. It doesn't hurt to throw the dog a bone once in a while, if you know what I mean.
-
Jose wrote:
Hey give the people time, is it better to have a buggy AOS version or a perfect one? Now that all this time has passed one can wait a little more for the OS to be shinny when it comes out...
Some are waiting, some are not. It's all matter of personal preferences and needs. Personally I no longer consider OS4 to one of those major interests of mine. It may well be something someday, but at the moment it's yet another neat (but unproven) idea.
-
Whoops
Wrong thread.
heh.
-
CeBit is not make or break either, but another potential propaganda cockup masterminded by
that master of PR Bill McEwan.
-
Well hopefully if they do attend Ce-Bit then they should take annex with them and do the back to the future show and make a new video like the one that was shown at woa99 by jim collas.
I got it from.... but that was a few years ago
it may have gone.
http://ugn.amiga.org/arn/amigamusicvideo128.mpg
That will get peoples attention.
-
@JurassicCamper Attention is good thing, but without product it's kinda pointless. But it's not far away, must wait and see.
@DaveP Well. it is not *the* end of the world, but each time Ainc&co fumble more people leave for good. So they better not, ain't so much people left around.
A sidenote.. according to this (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/25106) Alt-Woa 2003 has been postponed until OS4 is released. It's sad, but what can they to it. :-(
-
>make a new video
Ah video. There is now the Virtual Dimension video
about Amiga&RetroComputing ready for download
(German only, English dubbing underway). Includes
AmigaOne, CommodoreOne, Pegasos, new games,
new software, etc.
http://www.diabolic.de/vd-videos/arc2k2_s.mpg
(160*120, ~34MB)
http://www.virtualdimension.de/download/arc2k2_m.mpg
(352*288, ~125MB)
-
Hi,
I think that silence is the thing that is bothering the people the most. We don't hear anything at all. Take for example that coupon/t-shirt stuff. What's the deal on that? We don't hear anything at all. And "we are looking into it" isn't cutting it anymore. I do not hope they have got that attitude of "we don't have to say anything because they can't go anywhere". Bill should come forward sometimes and make some public statements.
What I expect to see on Cebit? I want to see the A1 there with OS4 running on it. And not just the ExecSG kernel they did sometime ago. Now, if they show that on Cebit they will gain a lot of support back again. So let's see what they will show there.
Coder
-
100% amiga magazine has stated that next months issue is going to detail how to get your money back from A.Inc!
That mag is turning pro genesi and seems to be going at A.Inc at every opportunity.
Shame.....I DEFINATELY won`t be re-subscribing when my current subscription ends. :-(
-
@L8-X
100% amiga magazine has stated that next months issue is going to detail how to get your money back from A.Inc!
Please post a link to clarify the above.
-
I can`t it`s in this months mag!
-
Hey Paul,
I like your avatar!
-
@L8-X
can`t it`s in this months mag!
Fair enough, i will order a trial mag,
I like your avatar!
:-) Avatar taken from Dont Pay NTL (http://www.dont-pay-ntl.co.uk/).
(http://www.generally-bored.co.uk/ntl_whammy01.gif)
-
Hey L8-X,
So that's a BAD thing that they would run an article on how to get your money back after how many months? Naughty naughty magazine - trying to help the bad bad consumers hurt poor widdle Amiga Inc. Where's the loyalty? Where's the love? Where's the bank loan officer and the T-shirt store?
-
So that's a BAD thing that they would run an article on how to get your money back after how many months? Naughty naughty magazine - trying to help the bad bad consumers hurt poor widdle Amiga Inc. Where's the loyalty? Where's the love? Where's the bank loan officer and the T-shirt store?
Stop trolling. Where are all of these supposed "hurt" coupon buyers that want their money back? I don't. I bought it fully knowing that it may take longer than I was willing to wait. It's $50 lousy dollars. I've blown more on games that I only played once or twice and decided I didn't like. Why make such a deal over it? When I purchased my membership/coupon/whatever thingy, I was never told that I would have it in XXX number of days. And as long as people get them before AOS4 is out, what does it matter? Because until then, there's not much reason to have it.
-
@Herwegoagain
Well IF you are the typical buyer of the (whatever), than
AInc has nothing to fear.
But IF some people feel betrayed, and THE LAW is on their side, than
they ave all rights in the world to get their money back by all
possible means. Everything that follows can be blamed on AInc
themselves as nobody forced them to sell (whatever).
-
by Herewegoagain on 2003/2/16 19:32:52
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So that's a BAD thing that they would run an article on how to get your money back after how many months? Naughty naughty magazine - trying to help the bad bad consumers hurt poor widdle Amiga Inc. Where's the loyalty? Where's the love? Where's the bank loan officer and the T-shirt store?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stop trolling. Where are all of these supposed "hurt" coupon buyers that want their money back? I don't. I bought it fully knowing that it may take longer than I was willing to wait. It's $50 lousy dollars. I've blown more on games that I only played once or twice and decided I didn't like. Why make such a deal over it? When I purchased my membership/coupon/whatever thingy, I was never told that I would have it in XXX number of days. And as long as people get them before AOS4 is out, what does it matter? Because until then, there's not much reason to have it.
Jep, it looks like the only guys who has big problems with our membership are the Genesi guys (Greenbuy is one of them, as they are partners!!!) :-D
-
>Jep, it looks like the only guys who has big
>problems with our membership are the Genesi
>guys
Exactly as what they're doing is illegal. I guess Ben
Hermans knows the German UWG quite well. Not
that some competitor sues Amiga Inc. again ;)
-
Well IF you are the typical buyer of the (whatever), ...
Yeah, I don't really know what to call it either. :-P
But IF some people feel betrayed, and THE LAW is on their side, than
they ave all rights in the world to get their money back by all
possible means.
Ok, then I'm assuming that people have requested money back and have been told "no" by Amiga? Where are they? I've not heard of anyone yet. Or is this "magazine" trying to incite people to do so? If so, what is their motives for this? Who is behind it? And why do they feel compelled to "save all the coupon buyers"? Is this another case of finding a problem where none exists or are there really lots of people out there wanting their money back??
This is not meant in a sarcastic way, I just really am curious.
-
What's interesting to me, as a non club member, is how the only people who seem to be "concerned" about the coupons are the MorphOS guys who it doesn't even affect!
Or maybe it's not "concern" - no, it wouldn't be anything else, would it???
-
@Greenboy
Well if you actually took the time to take your head out of Bill Bucks a$$ long enough to read my post correctly you`ll see that I was complaining about the fact that 100% Amiga really should be calling themselves 100% GENESI.
And for the record I am one of those people with $50 on the line too. I WON`T be asking for my $50 back, but I don`t mind other people asking for theirs, it`s up to them and I`ll be brutally honest with you I DON`T think Amiga Inc have treated their customers well with this "CLUB" It`s been a rash idea poorly thought out and VERY poorly executed. Amiga Inc as far as I can see has NO PR skills whatsoever.
In saying that I will cut them some slack as they are a small new company and hopefully will learn from their mistakes but if they don`t then they`ll go down the tubes like all other poorly run companies do.
-
@herewegoagain
Here is the website 100% Genesi (http://www.100percentamiga.org/) ;-) :-D :-D
-
Well there were one or two people who claimed on ann.lu that they
asked for a refund but has been tolf "no" by AInc.
I'm also quite sure that Ray (???) from AInc made a comment
right here where he said that noone will get their money back
before the release of OS4.
But we should all remember how the (whatever) was introduced
and advetised back last summer.
They talked about the NEAR release of OS4/A1 and that everybody
will get a coupon (+t-shirt) which should be accepted in the
purchase of an A1. This offcourse was understood that those goods
would be delievered BEFORE A1 and OS4 go on sale.
Thats atleast how I understood it, and if I had bought (whatever)
I would feel betrayed, and that has nothing to do with me being
on the "evil" side.
-
by L8-X on 2003/2/16 20:03:28
@herewegoagain
Here is the website 100% Genesi ;-) :-D :-D
:lol:
-
What do you mean 100% Genesi?
I guess I am being a bit thick :-D
-
Do I sense some hostility here? ; }
Too bad you think that I don't agree with you enough to deserve decent treatment. That I don't do what you think is right, don't share your view of what should be, what things should not be. So that would make it all right to cross lines of politeness and local posting guidelines, right?
So I'll just talk about WHAT ACTUALLY IS. Some of you put faith in a company that did not follow through. And your pride is all tied up in it. I wouldn't let that be such a big deal - I at one time had faith in them too, In Phoenix. But nothing went according to agreement. And I got over it.
Slight aside here to those who feel they can comment on any topic that suits them, but I can't: GET REAL : }
Some people HAVE asked for money back. And some did not get answers back. And some who worked did not get paid. I know some of you read ANN, so you've seen some of the people who claim to have gone through this and that.
My commenting on this has little to do with Genesi. But if Genesi was doing this kind of thing in front of me, I would be wondering how and when to dump them off my dance card. I can stomach delays, I can stand some chaotic planning that makes my work hard. But I don't like dealing with companies that stop communicating entirely with the public when they have engaged public trust and in the form of some kind of thing some here would like to think was written up as a goodwill loan.
But it wasn't.
By the way, expect to see a T-shirt bundled with the Phoenix Pegasos for $299 offer (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1236). Have a nice day : }
-
@DaveP
You have to read the "mag" to understand! ;-)
-
And for the record I am one of those people with $50 on the line too. I WON`T be asking for my $50 back, but I don`t mind other people asking for theirs, it`s up to them and I`ll be brutally honest with you I DON`T think Amiga Inc have treated their customers well with this "CLUB" It`s been a rash idea poorly thought out and VERY poorly executed. Amiga Inc as far as I can see has NO PR skills whatsoever.
Gotta agree with you on that one L8-X. The whole deal was handled very poorly. They have at least admitted that much. I don't feel slighted, but I do feel disappointed that Genesi come off as a much better prepared and better at marketing than Amiga. Hopefully they will learn what they are doing soon. They are loosing the battle quickly in my eyes, and I'm a supporter. It's the things like the ill fated club deal and announcing they will be at Cebit with OS4 and to date they still don't show up in the vendor search. This is very disappointing. I feel like it almost surely means they will not be there. I hope I'm wrong.
@Kronos
Thats atleast how I understood it, and if I had bought (whatever)
I would feel betrayed, and that has nothing to do with me being
on the "evil" side.
I agree mostly. It was left to that feeling that you would have this coupon/t'shirt soon. And that made you feel that an OS4 release was about to happen, thus spurring some into buying. I don't think it has to do with anyone being "evil". It's just not a good situation.
-
@L8-X
No danger of that ;-)
-
@greenboy
By the way, expect to see a T-shirt bundled with the Phoenix Pegasos for $299 offer. Have a nice day : }
It's a nice offer. :-)
Coder
-
greenboy wrote:
Do I sense some hostility here? ; }
Too bad you think that I don't agree with you enough to deserve decent treatment. That I don't do what you think is right, don't share your view of what should be, what things should not be. So that would make it all right to cross lines of politeness and local posting guidelines, right?
Well if you talk to be like I`m some sort of little kid idiot how do you expect me to react. Talking down to someone won`t get you a idlle widdle bit of wespect!
(see what I mean)
Oh and I don`t care if you agree with me or not.
So I'll just talk about WHAT ACTUALLY IS. Some of you put faith in a company that did not follow through. And your pride is all tied up in it. I wouldn't let that be such a big deal - I at one time had faith in them too, In Phoenix. But nothing went according to agreement. And I got over it.
Actually as I pointed out earlier but you obviously haven`t bothered to read....I HAVE $50 TIED UP IN IT! Not just pride!
Slight aside here to those who feel they can comment on any topic that suits them, but I can't: GET REAL : }
Eh? Erm your free to say what you want on here as much as the next guy/gal.
Some people HAVE asked for money back. And some did not get answers back. And some who worked did not get paid. I know some of you read ANN, so you've seen some of the people who claim to have gone through this and that.
Are you saying Amiga.Inc haven`t paid people that have done work for them? If so examples please?
My commenting on this has little to do with Genesi.
LOL
But if Genesi was doing this kind of thing in front of me, I would be wondering how and when to dump them off my dance card. I can stomach delays, I can stand some chaotic planning that makes my work hard. But I don't like dealing with companies that stop communicating entirely with the public when they have engaged public trust and in the form of some kind of thing some here would like to think was written up as a goodwill loan.
But it wasn't.
I don`t think it was a loan, I am prepared to lose my money if it all goes down the tubes, at least I`ll have tried to support A.Inc.
I agree that it is really frustrating to not hear much from A.Inc, but I can understand why they feel reluctant to speak about anything, people attack them for it. So they shut up...and still they are attacked. :-? No win situation.
By the way, expect to see a T-shirt bundled with the Phoenix Pegasos for $299 offer (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1236). Have a nice day : }
Nah I`m not interested in Peg/Morphos in the slightest, but good luck with your $299 offer, I just hope for your sake it works out.
Later
:-)
-
@herewegoagain.
I hope they are there too, if they don`t show I can see the knives drawn......beware the ides of march!!!! :-D
-
Some are fans who still Believe. Greenboy has had reason to Disbelieve and has gone looking for a more dynamic company to partner with. Good luck, gb, I hope you have more success there.
I don't Believe in AInc anymore. My Faith has been worn down by years of neglect. I paid $ to Phase5 for a PPC, then lost that gamble. I bought the DE SDK but it seems to have been left to rot. I bought the $50 'coupon', knowing that it was probably another $50 down the drain. That's OK, I intended to lose it, like a gambler at the pokies (slots).
I still have Faith in Eyetech to deliver me a new board to play with. At least I'll be able to play with that. And PLAY is the operative word. Most of the Phoenix crowd are trying to make money out of computing hardware/software/whatever. Their demand for action is a bit more urgent than mine, which is merely for a desktop toy to play with.
Let's face it, the Amiga desktop will never be more than a toy until the Adobes and Microsofts of this world provide applications for it. I don't need them, I can have fun writing do-nothing software, designing do-nothing hardware and porting unknown languages to an unused platform. When I have to do serious work, it's back to the PC.
At the moment, Genesi seem to be the go-ahead, keen-to-do-business crowd. I wish them well, I hope it develops. I hope Ainc develops, too. I will depend on neither.
I'll play with my XE G4, with Linux, then when AOS4 comes out, I'll play with that. It really isn't something to get all hot about, it's just a toy.
tony
-
tony: better late than never , is a word we all want to hear soon , i am not a blind follower but i will wait for os4 and my a1xe800.
but when and why, time will tell.
anyway the tactics genesi uses are mostly the reason why i am not choosing them.
also: u said u lost a ppc, i have lost many and that was DCE/P5 , which is Bplan and genesi more or less, so dont be suprised to hear such things again soon, when the hw bails or something goes wrong.
cheer up...and hang in there...its not the end....its the END of the beginning....
-
My birthday is in May then I going to buy an new Amiga.
I don´t care if it will be Morphos or AmigaOne with AmigaOS 4.0 which ever is im able to buy straight over the counter gets my money.
I could turn out to be none.
Then I would have to buy a Mediator with stuff for my A1200-060
-
@TonyW
I paid $ to Phase5 for a PPC, then lost that gamble. I bought the DE SDK but it seems to have been left to rot. I bought the $50 'coupon', knowing that it was probably another $50 down the drain.
Tony, i've got some magic beans here..... theyre yours for $50 mate....
@Greenboy & @Kronos
I agree that the coupon offer is something of a debacle.... but tbh, what do either of you care?
I could go on a rant about ntl's 1gb d/l cap, but hey i don't have cable....
you pair dont have a coupon... hell you dont....even....have....an.....amiga!
sKy
-
@SkyRaker:
"Tony, i've got some magic beans here..... theyre yours for $50 mate...."
I don't think $50 is enough: I'll give you $65, minimum :-D
But don't attack the others just because you disagree with them. Their opinions are just as valid as yours or mine. Time will tell whose are more true.
tony
-
Rx an email response from Fleecy Moss tonight!
Amiga is going to make some announcments concerning CeBIT, A1 & OS4 (soon).
I asked about AmigaDE, he said that will be covered in the announcments as well,
but that progress has been slower than anticipated due to having to concentrate on
other platforms (PockPC ??).
Loki :-D
-
Loki1 wrote:
Rx an email response from Fleecy Moss tonight!
Amiga is going to make some announcments concerning CeBIT, A1 & OS4 (soon).
I asked about AmigaDE, he said that will be covered in the announcments as well,
but that progress has been slower than anticipated due to having to concentrate on
other platforms (PockPC ??).
Loki :-D
Finally! This waiting game has been killing me :quickdraw: . Any news is better than no news, even if it is bad news... no if i repeat news again in the same sentence :python:.
-
by Loki1 on 2003/2/17 5:56:34
Rx an email response from Fleecy Moss tonight!
Amiga is going to make some announcments concerning CeBIT, A1 & OS4 (soon).
I asked about AmigaDE, he said that will be covered in the announcments as well,
but that progress has been slower than anticipated due to having to concentrate on
other platforms (PockPC ??).
Loki :-D
Looking forward to read that announcement :-D
Amiga Inc./Hyperion/Eyetech knows how to make life exciting ;-)
-
I'm also quite sure that Ray (???) from AInc made a comment right here where he said that noone will get their money back before the release of OS4.
This is incorrect. I made no such statement nor any statement of refund nor refusal of same. That simply is not in my power to decide nor comment on, at this time.
-
Day after day it's harder to wait...
-
Yeah....its getting soooo looong now....must stay strong...nearly there! ;-)
-
anyway the tactics genesi uses are mostly the reason why i am not choosing them.
*perks up* Tactics?
i have lost many and that was DCE/P5
Could you be more specifc?
but when and why, time will tell.
March Cebit or bust?
-
@Loki1
Rx an email response from Fleecy Moss tonight!
Could you ask fleecy a question for me?
(see below)
-
>What Happened to ACM (Amiga Component Model)
>and the advanced Amiga Audio API? If you check
> the AOS4 features list, these things are missing!
Perhaps that was meant as a joke.
Surely everybody knows that those were meant to be AmigaDE features and then later to be used in some (much later) AmigaOS release.
Some time ago I read that the developer of the AmigaDE audio system no longer works for AI, so no hope for improvements on that area.
-
@HMetal
You're in Canada now too? :-D
I forget.. are you a Phoenix Developer Consortium member?
-
@KSK
Perhaps that was meant as a joke.
Nope. No joke. I am serious. I want know what happened.
Surely everybody knows that those were meant to be AmigaDE features and then later to be used in some (much later) AmigaOS release.
Yes. I know. However, would not much of the prototyping for this system be coded in C? Note that C could be compiled into TAO/DE with a special compiler.
In the same respect, the C source could be recompiled and used in AmigaOS4 by Hyperion.
Some time ago I read that the developer of the AmigaDE audio system no longer works for AI, so no hope for improvements on that area.
Right. And from what I heard the system was completed.. so where is it?
You don't throw away a years worth of development work on *important* components of the operating system do you?
That's purely idiotic!
-
Finally! This waiting game has been killing me . Any news is better than no news, even if it is bad news...
Ha! I used to feel that way, but now 'bad news' is NOT acceptable. Enough bad news, there is another camp, Genesi, that knows how to deliver product.
Fact, is, even if its good news, its still just news, and not delivered product.
It's also like the t-shirt news last month....more, hey we'll get to it soon....-everyone breathes a big sigh of relief- (but now its february and still no t-shirts).
Naaa.....to be honest, good news bad news or no news.....its all more of the same.
Product delivery is the only thing thats important now.
If a pegasos was available today at $299, I'd buy one, and be officially commited to the other side. Of course, since that itself is only an announcement and not something I can actually do (yet)....I will be forced to remain without an actual side to advocate for a while longer...
but I will try to give one of these companies my money fairly soon, and I doubt it will be Amiga, Inc.
-
Could you ask fleecy a question for me?
You can ask him yourself. His email address is on the corporate website.
If you are curtious, you might get an answer.
But you might not like the answer.
Loki :-D
-
Darth_X wrote:
@HMetal
You're in Canada now too? :-D
I forget.. are you a Phoenix Developer Consortium member?
I have always been in Canada and, yes I am a Phoenix member with a signed Phinixi NDA, though they don't treat me like one. I guess it's because I work for "the competition." :-D
-
Nope. No joke. I am serious. I want know what happened.
ACM and the other AmigaDE components were never intended for AmigaOS4.0.
Yes. I know. However, would not much of the prototyping for this system be coded in C? Note that C could be compiled into TAO/DE with a special compiler.
No, these services and features are coded in VP as far as I know, not C or any other language.
Right. And from what I heard the system was completed.. so where is it?
You surely don't believe that because one developer has left or went on to other projects, that the finished product/project cannot be improved by another, do you? It's simply not true. And, in my most humble opinion, if indeed it is finished (which I cannot comment on, so don't ask me), then you will see it when the whole set of Amiga components and enhancements to AmigaDE/Anywhere is released.
-
I have always been in Canada
cool.
yes I am a Phoenix member with a signed Phinixi NDA, though they don't treat me like one. I guess it's because I work for "the competition
A lot of 'trust' was damaged by AmigaInc's movements.
I thought Genesi was the 'competition' ? :-D
-
No, these services and features are coded in VP as far as I know, not C or any other language
That would Not be good. A quick look at TAO's website...TAO intent (http://tao-group.com/index2.php?cat=2)
"intent is a binary portable platform, independent of programming language, operating system and processor, so the content, which can be written in C, C++,"...
Developers with vast experience in C/C++, but little knowledge of intent, would be wise to first prototype your application in C/C++, then later if needed optimise it for VP asm.
Check out this 'Made with Intent' website... (http://withintent.biz/index2.php?Cat=1)
-
tony: better late than never , is a word we all want to hear soon , i am not a blind follower but i will wait for os4 and my a1xe800.
Well, you and Tony can start looking forward to playing with the A1XE - it is running very nicely :-D
Actually it is this board that I am using to post right now - using SuSE PPC 7.3 and Opera 6.11 :-P
-
Juzz wrote:
tony: better late than never , is a word we all want to hear soon , i am not a blind follower but i will wait for os4 and my a1xe800.
Well, you and Tony can start looking forward to playing with the A1XE - it is running very nicely :-D
Actually it is this board that I am using to post right now - using SuSE PPC 7.3 and Opera 6.11 :-P
Details, details man! Give us details! Give a small review if possible :-) .
-
Details, details man! Give us details! Give a small review if possible .
Well, I did post a small benchmark here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/25157) :-D
The G4 is definitely showing some muscle and that is even without altivec support in dnetc (which I am working on with some other developers to try to get into the dnetc client) :-P
-
Juzz wrote:
Details, details man! Give us details! Give a small review if possible .
Well, I did post a small benchmark here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/25157) :-D
The G4 is definitely showing some muscle and that is even without altivec support in dnetc (which I am working on with some other developers to try to get into the dnetc client) :-P
Careful with benchmarks since one could show the opposite results.
Refer to OpenSSL benchmarks (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20020113045343563)
==========================================
iMac G4 800 results
Authored by: watling on Tue, Apr 2 '02 at 07:16PM
sign verify sign/s verify/s
rsa 512 bits 0.0031s 0.0003s 319.7 3297.6
rsa 1024 bits 0.0184s 0.0010s 54.4 991.2
rsa 2048 bits 0.1236s 0.0037s 8.1 268.4
rsa 4096 bits 0.8642s 0.0137s 1.2 72.8
sign verify sign/s verify/s
dsa 512 bits 0.0031s 0.0037s 326.8 270.9
dsa 1024 bits 0.0106s 0.0132s 94.5 75.8
dsa 2048 bits 0.0382s 0.0451s 26.2 22.2
==========================================
Celeron 566 running Mandrake Linux 8.2
Authored by: Tarlach on Thu, Dec 12 '02 at 09:30PM
It's depressing to see my cheap Mandrake linux box (566 celeron with 190 mb RAM) beating a G4 800.
sign verify sign/s verify/s
rsa 512 bits 0.0023s 0.0002s 427.5 4915.8
rsa 1024 bits 0.0121s 0.0006s 82.6 1629.2
rsa 2048 bits 0.0729s 0.0021s 13.7 475.8
rsa 4096 bits 0.4886s 0.0074s 2.0 135.8
sign verify sign/s verify/s
dsa 512 bits 0.0021s 0.0026s 473.1 386.1
dsa 1024 bits 0.0061s 0.0075s 163.1 133.5
dsa 2048 bits 0.0208s 0.0255s 48.2 39.3
==========================================
Refer to; For Linux's install-egcs/install-glibc/cross-gcc benchmarks (http://homepage.mac.com/nopea1/benchmark/)
On personal note; The following benchmarks would be nice.
1. Quake I and II (SW render)
2. 68K AmigaMark 2003.
3. MPEG2 to MPEG4 conversion.
$299 USD** PPC with AmigaOS 4.0(official edition) set-up would be nice.
**About $600 AUD.
Note that OGR benchmarks was also being use for Athlon XP VS Pentium 4 battle royal.
My very old Athlon 1.1Ghz delivers the following;
[Feb 18 09:41:47 UTC] Automatic processor type detection found
an AMD K7-4 (Athlon Thunderbird) processor.
[Feb 18 09:41:47 UTC] OGR: using core #0 (GARSP 5.13-A).
[Feb 18 09:42:07 UTC] OGR: Benchmark for core #0 (GARSP 5.13-A)
0.00:00:17.18 [8,413,541 nodes/sec]
[Feb 18 09:42:07 UTC] OGR: using core #1 (GARSP 5.13-B).
[Feb 18 09:42:27 UTC] OGR: Benchmark for core #1 (GARSP 5.13-B)
0.00:00:17.10 [8,629,686 nodes/sec]
IF I clock it to 1.33Ghz, this old box may beat your Pentium 4 2.4Ghz.
I’ll test it in Athlon XP 1800+/ASUS nForce 2-Deluxe later…
-
Juzz wrote:
Well, I did post a small benchmark here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/25157) :-D
The G4 is definitely showing some muscle and that is even without altivec support in dnetc (which I am working on with some other developers to try to get into the dnetc client) :-P
What do you mean? You're using the 2.9001 client, and OGR calculation has been using AltiVec since 2.8011, and you obviously get "AltiVec enhanced" rates.
AltiVec support for OGR has always been in the PPC Linux client AFAIK, since OGR support was added so late in this neglected branch compared to the x86 and MacOS PPC versions... :(
-
That would Not be good. A quick look at TAO's website...
TAO intent "intent is a binary portable platform, independent of programming language, operating system and processor, so the content, which can be written in C, C++,"...
Developers with vast experience in C/C++, but little knowledge of intent, would be wise to first prototype your application in C/C++, then later if needed optimise it for VP asm.
Not bad at all, I think. My impression of the statements above that Tao have made is such that people don't fear that they have to program in VP in order to program in intent - they can get along quite happily in C or C++ if they so desire.
Myself, I program in intent in a mixture of VP assembly and Java. I have no desire to use C or C++ on the platform. VP is quite a nice assembly language, especially with all the standard and very handy macros.
Anything written in VP can easily be accessed by programs written in C/C++ anyway, so there's no issue there, either.
-
On personal note; The following benchmarks would be nice. 1. Quake I and II (SW render) 2. 68K AmigaMark 2003. 3. MPEG2 to MPEG4 conversion.
Well one of the others with an XE tested Sin against an AMD Duron 850. The timedemo yielded 10 FPS on the AMD and 19 FPS for the G4.
Timerefresh yielded 13 FPS on the Duron and 26 FPS on the G4.
Quake x86 has an assembler texture mapper, whereas the PPC is using a 'C' texture mapper.
-
AltiVec support for OGR has always been in the PPC Linux client AFAIK
Yes, for the CPU's that the client recognizes (ie. the ones that has been added to the source of the client).
And it has to be compiled via an Altivec enabled compiler AFAIK.
-
Well one of the others with an XE tested Sin against an AMD Duron 850. The timedemo yielded 10 FPS on the AMD and 19 FPS for the G4.
For this benchmark to mean anything, more information about the test must be known: The smaller L2 cache could be a big problem for the Duron, the PPC version might be better optimized(likely since most PC games assume 3D hardware), the memory size and speed could influence the scores as different operating systems etc.
I'd rather trust SPEC.
Vidar
-
Juzz wrote:
AltiVec support for OGR has always been in the PPC Linux client AFAIK
Yes, for the CPU's that the client recognizes (ie. the ones that has been added to the source of the client).
And it has to be compiled via an Altivec enabled compiler AFAIK.
But you do use a supported CPU (this is the Teron PX with an 800 MHz 7451, right?), and you do get the same result as other AltiVec enabled clients on the same CPU in the dnet client speed database.
BTW, the client supports AltiVec without being recompiled (dnet only distributes binaries anyway, don't they?).
The remarkable thing about your "benchmark" (yeah, dnetc runs are largely meaningless to measure anything else than "how fast can this CPU crunch RC5 keys and OGR nodes?" ;) ) is that the 2.4 GHz P4 sucks so abysmally on OGR!
On the ~1.75 GHz Athlon box here I get about 13 Mnodes/s. Per processor... :)
-
Well one of the others with an XE tested Sin against an AMD Duron 850. The timedemo yielded 10 FPS on the AMD and 19 FPS for the G4.
That claims looks a bit skewed when one compares cut-down CPU against a full-featured CPU.
Why the AMD Duron? It's 2nd Level Cache is heavily crippled.
Those cut-down X86 chips don’t perform very well with games i.e. run Quake II (in SW mode) Athlon VS Duron.
Why not the full featured AMD Athlon XP chip? There should be an AMD Athlon XP chip around the PPC G4 800Mhz’s price bracket.
Just be careful with the X86 based comparisons.
I’m curious why they use SIN has the game benchmark, while Quake I/II was the engine for multitude of game titles.
Did they use an Intel complier for SIN source code?
Quake x86 has an assembler texture mapper, whereas the PPC is using a 'C' texture mapper.
Why not recompile the same source code(i.e. C language source) for both platforms?
Could you disclose the actual benchmark setup for SIN?
X86 SIN based benchmarks was use in the late 90s (during reign of Pentium II/III 440BX era).
-
@Juzz:
"Well, you and Tony can start looking forward to playing with the A1XE - it is running very nicely
Actually it is this board that I am using to post right now - using SuSE PPC 7.3 and Opera 6.11 "
Hey, Juzz, I've been following your exploits on the ML. I can't wait to get my own.
tony
-
But you do use a supported CPU (this is the Teron PX with an 800 MHz 7451, right?), and you do get the same result as other AltiVec enabled clients on the same CPU in the dnet client speed database.
Hmm... Well I tried the short version...
But, no the dnetc client does not see the Altivec unit in the G4 yet!
I am not sure why, but it simply refuses to run the PPC-Vector core - which is the one using the Altivec. I have even tried manually selecting the altivec-enabled core, but no go....
So I am in the process of compiling gcc-3.2.2 right now, so that I can compile the source code that I have altered (in cooperation with some of the other developers - they point, I try to insert the right things at the right place).
And, yes, distributed.net does give out their source code - however they are the only ones allowed to distribute the binary - so if anyone improves the source code to include more platforms/cpu's whatever - then you have to submit the code to them - and then they will release the fresh binary.
:-)
-
I’ll test it in Athlon XP 1800+/ASUS nForce 2-Deluxe later…
Athlon XP 1800+, ASUS nForce 2, WinXP-SP1
==========================================
[Feb 19 01:15:35 UTC] Automatic processor type detection found
an AMD K7-6 (Athlon XP/MP/-4) processor.
[Feb 19 01:15:35 UTC] OGR: using core #0 (GARSP 5.13-A).
[Feb 19 01:15:55 UTC] OGR: Benchmark for core #0 (GARSP 5.13-A)
0.00:00:16.71 [12,000,449 nodes/sec]
...
==========================================
Running 24 processes in the background.