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Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: Jose on February 14, 2003, 02:04:38 AM
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Disclaimer: This also reflects my opinion, that I thought I'd share with you.
I'm tired and I'm out for sure this time. I may come back, but would like to share this with you.
I sure would like to hear confirmation from some people about one thing. The new IBM 64bit PowerPC processor is due to not very long. It was said that it should be easy to port OS4 to 64bit, but that it would be incompatible with the 32bit version due to some technicall stuff like offsets being different.
If that's the only reason, here you have a way to check AInc's will toward AOS, and more importantly towards the users! OS4 will need to have it's own native softwarebase anyway. It'd be only a matter of developers making a checkmark in the compiler et "voilá".
Eventhough I'm pending towards an A1 with OS4 I'll only give them my money if I have this confirmation.
I hope AInc. is not using the good will of the more zealot users to deceive them and push their own agenda with DE stuff, like it was happening in the begining. Honestly I like the DE, but tricking the users to use it would be false and not even moral. The userbase as you know shrinked completely when Collas anounced they were gonna use Linux. Then the current AInc. almost gave the final toutch announcing TAOs intent. It was these two idiotic moves that killed the user base at that time(of course time that has passed would have made that too).
You people are going to buy the machines but don't know in what you're investing in the long term.
And no I'm not gonna use MOS, so please don't suggest. But it's because of these reasons that people prefer MOS and hate AInc. and I understand them. They put up all those messages to users about the DE as if they were only using us. Users are/were still here for some reason you know. I really hope AInc is not gonna do that and I won't buy anything till I have the confirmation.
Just my half a cent :-( I really hope that won't be the case, and I'm willing to show my support. Actually I have, I'm a club member.
Cheers.
Maybe in the Summer I'll come over to see what 's hapenned. It'll be cool to come over here and find out plenty messages about the new OS and hardware that HAS been released... :-D
Maybe by then people already know the answer to this question?
Peace to all.
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You have to consider that many Amiga users are dying to just have a little bit of new hardware despite where Amiga Inc's plans are going in the long run.
Look what we had done with 3.1 before we got 3.5/3.9. In many ways those releases are the culmination of the work of the people and the community. Of course some outstanding bugs were addressed but that was just the icing.
I look at it like this. *If* OS4.0 is released we have made the next major milestone in the Amiga community. We have a platform that finally uses AGP, PCI, USB etc.. We'll have a platform that can really run a lot things that weren't worth porting to the Amiga in its other forms. It will be enough to sustain community for quite some time to come. If further updates continue to come in from AInc then the more the better.
If on the other hand, and many people are scared of this happening more than anything, OS 4.0 doesn't get released then we have nothing to show for the future of Amiga other than custom and slightly outdated PowerPC motherboard. The community is like a candle flickering due to lack of oxygen. Once OS4.0 hits the scene the flame will have every oppurtunity to blossom into something greater. Without it we are stuck and many who have bought the boards already will be in the hole once again based solely on false promises.
In a lot of ways the masses are more than justified to wait for OS4.0. Although we need those of you who are brave enough and financially sound enough to purchase the hardware in its current state to keep AInc interested I understand why others, like me, cannot afford to take that risk right now.
On a side note I feel that it is extremely foolish for Amiga Inc to not support MacOS hardware. It is advancing at a much faster pace then what AInc can afford and they should leverage it. Perhaps even offering a USB dongle device or something to prevent piracy. This would be a much better idea then requiring existing AOne boards. It would also not cost them anything since the AOne boards are much cheaper than Mac hardware and thusly have a market on their own.
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If that's the only reason, here you have a way to check AInc's will toward AOS, and more importantly towards the users! OS4 will need to have it's own native softwarebase anyway. It'd be only a matter of developers making a checkmark in the compiler et "voilá".
Sorry, lost me. What are you asking for again?
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jose@. aos4 will come, dont think any diffrent.
for the 64bit stuff, well first of all an 64bit system must be made (G5) , when the system is out and the costs of it, thats when we should start asking us self about this, and eventually os4 will move onto this, i dont see why this should be a problem at all , as the os for now is going ppc and when we have it in the end.....means that if the cpu is a hit then os4 will bump over here.
for the DE stuff , i like the idea of the thing, but i havent seen much yet that impress me,other than the engine it all runs on, also i think its good that amigaInc finally do some software also, as look back in time....amiga really didnt have any trademark like other plattforms had...., pc had DUKE , nintendo had mario , sonic was on the sega etc...all commodore was...published some mirrorsoft titles (defender of the crown 2 etc)..
anyway i see no reason to run away now, if you have been around all the way till now means that you should be able to stick around alot longer as its now that it finally is about to happen.
For the MOS stuff, i am no fan of mos, thats mostly beause of the policy they use , or in better words..because of BBRV and also because its not Amiga as i know it....but in the long run i might turn to mos if i have to, as i wont move to linux or mac or pc.
this is the year of big brawls and big fights and i think it will be very interesting, and hopefully one of them wont die.
cheers
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I think most people will just be relived to get OS4, never mind if it has a future. I dont think it will be up to Amiga inc as to how OS4 is developed in the future, at least it shouldn't be, IMHO A inc is a sham they sell someone elses work with there name (DE) and get other companys to developer there more risky projects. Hyp now has the rights to OS4 so if A inc disapered OS4 will still go ahead. I think the current hardware locking is a HUGE mistake and is evidence of a firm that has no clue as to how the PC market works.
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Personally I hope DE will disappear in a cloud of vapour :-) Why on earth would anyone want it anyway . Java has been there, MS smartphone will hopefully go the way of the dodo...
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I think the current hardware locking is a HUGE mistake and is evidence of a firm that has no clue as to how the PC market works.
I dont think so, cos this is the PPC market.
Apple can do it.
WE can.
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To many years to late, the damage has been done and would take an absolute miracle to put things right which will never happen.
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@Paul_Gadd
why are you here ?
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@Alkemyst
Change the record.
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Change the record.
That is something that You really need to do.
Then i would not have to remind you of your reason for being here.
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@Alkemyst
This site is Amiga.org not WorshipAmiga.org,
Why is it that anyone that says anything negative about the Amiga gets asked by you and others "Why are you here?"
Not everyone is going to come on here to love and worship Amiga.
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It is possible to find a market, even for Amiga. The trick is finding the right one.
Look at how Sony came out of nowhere with the Playstation.
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@ Paul_Gadd
Why is it that anyone that says anything negative about the Amiga gets asked by you and others "Why are you here?"
No, they don't. I have negative and positive opinions about Amiga and the current situation, but I don't keep saying the same thing, or doom-and-glooming the situation all the time. If you don't have anything useful/interesting to say, don't say anything at all. Your first comment on this thread was totally doom-and-glooming, and you seem to be wondering why people don't take kindly to it.
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@DaveP
"Sorry, lost me. What are you asking for again?"
Well, I allways doubted that AOS would be continued in the long term, and thought probably it would be substituted with some layer to run DE stuff. The Amiga users are still here cause they like the ClassicOS, and they wish the continuation of it. If I want to use TAO's OS I don't need the DE, if we're to use Linux (like in Collas's times) the interest in the Amiga itself disappears.
What it seemed to me was that the people that bought AInc. bought it for the users, to get a users base for their own products. The Tech Updates, or whatever on the begining clearly showed that. Hey here's this cooll Jeep you can buy from us for you sport's car fans... be glad.
@lempkee
"...For the MOS stuff, i am no fan of mos, thats mostly beause of the policy they use , or in better words..because of BBRV and also because its not Amiga as i know it....but in the long run i might turn to mos if i have to, as i wont move to linux or mac or pc..."
Exactly. Moving to Linux (Collas times) or TAO's OS wouldn't be AmigaOS anymore. It would be kind of contradictory to want to use Amiga users for a different OS when these users have been here for so many years for the platform they like and they're used to and know so well.
@MikeyMike
"Personally I hope DE will disappear in a cloud of vapour Why on earth would anyone want it anyway . Java has been there, MS smartphone will hopefully go the way of the dodo..."
I thinkk DE has more advantages. You can use more options with it than Java. It's also a good way of targetting the big mass market. What I don 't like is they were using the Amiga users to push they're own agenda with the DE, and completely scrapping AmigaOS at the same time. How things are now seem to be much more fair. An combination of interests. I'd gladly support the DE IF I knew they were supporting AmigaOS.
I think things migh come out well though, and I hope AmigaOS(not just the name) continues beyond OS4 and.
By they way I won't get outta here. It's stronger than me :-D
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@ Jose
Java has shown with its track record that businesses/people aren't particularly interested in a cross-platform 'portable' programming language.
What is AmigaDE's "good way of targetting the mass market"? Through mobile phones?
I think AmigaOS has a much better chance of survival and a better chance of a positive effect on the computer industry. If AOS was successful, Mac and Amiga users would be better off because hardware prices would come down, and cross-platform competition would heat up again from the bare simmer it has been turned down to.
Also, I want a change from Win2k and MS's "nanny OS" idea. :-)
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@MikeyMike
That doom and gloom as you put it is what the Amiga looks like in the real world,
As i have said many of times i would like to see the Amiga comeback big style but the truth is it aint going to happen anytime soon,
The early Amiga companies have took a top notch system and permanently damaged it,
As for the A1 and AOS4, i must be the only person on here who looks at software before a OS, without your nomal everyday software their is no point spending loads on a platform, i like software support not a fancy new OS.
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@ Paul_Gadd
That doom and gloom as you put it is what the Amiga looks like in the real world
Do you not think everyone knows it's been in a bad situation that it has yet to completely get out of? Do you think it's your job to remind everyone of what you think are the facts at every opportunity you get?
As i have said many of times i would like to see the Amiga comeback big style but the truth is it aint going to happen anytime soon,
That is YOUR OPINION, not fact. Again, your opinion is not something everyone needs to be reminded of at every opportunity, so GIVE IT A REST!
The early Amiga companies have took a top notch system and permanently damaged it,
"Permanently damaged", so you've obviously seen into the future to be able to tell us that.
As for the A1 and AOS4, i must be the only person on herewho looks at software before a OS, without your nomal everyday software their is no point spending loads on a platform, i like software support not a fancy new OS.
What makes you think that? Obviously you're cleverer than everyone else in here that you're the only one to realise that an operating system needs software to be of any use to anyone? Maybe you need to preach some more! Maybe everyone will start agreeing with you if you say the same thing, over and over again?
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@ Paul_Gadd
Btw, you seriously need to use the full stop key a little more often :-)
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I to just recently stopped using my Amiga as my
main machine, I was looking around to see what
the alternatives were, PC ( yech do me a favour)
OK, what else is there, ah, I know what about a MAC.
After looking at the MAC that caught my eye, I
weighed up the cost of the MAC price and how
much it would cost to upgrade my Amiga to the
same spec, no contest there then, the MAC won hands
down.
I still have the Amiga setup though.
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@Jose
@DaveP
"Sorry, lost me. What are you asking for again?"
Well, I allways doubted that AOS would be continued in the long term, and thought probably it would be substituted with some layer to run DE stuff.
Ive never doubted that this is Amino/AmigaIncs game plan and yes in a way it is technically possible
but what I have doubted is that they could successfully release the limpet like grip us users have on classic hardware before they get to the point that AmigaOS runs on DE ( API compatible like MorphOS ). But still they try to increase the gradient of adoption beyond that of which the userbase can countenance without bringing in any influx of users from the outside world either.
The Amiga users are still here cause they like the ClassicOS, and they wish the continuation of it.
Well the evolution of it.
If I want to use TAO's OS I don't need the DE, if we're to use Linux (like in Collas's times) the interest in the Amiga itself disappears.
Hmmmmmm yes I suppose so. But Collas wanted AOS on top of the Linux kernel - when most people think of Linux they think of a distribution like Mandrake or Knoppix. Unless you are a kernel programmer you wouldn't realise that Linux was under the cover in Collas' grand plans. ( Except everyone would tell you ).
What it seemed to me was that the people that bought AInc. bought it for the users, to get a users base for their own products. The Tech Updates, or whatever on the begining clearly showed that.
I totally agree with you. That is why the only reason I havent long since flipped the bird at A1 and AOS4 is because it is not Amiga Inc that are really truly behind or in control of it.
But then I am going to try and put a foot on both sides of the fence and buy into MorphOS/Pegasos too because I don't trust Amiga Inc not to flamingo up AmigaOS4.x future beyond 4.0.
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[color=000000]AROS!!![/color][/b][/u]
The only way we can be sure there is going to be an AmigaOS in the future.
Amiga Int is just using the name to sell that DE garbage.
And MOS isnt AmigaOS.
It´s all in the hands of Hyperion, and they are silent which I hope means they are working instead of writing unrealistic statements about the future and stupid lawsuits.
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I realy start to think that AROS is the ONLY way to survive ;-) , as soon as AROS get a good state of usage "like the OS3.1 state at least" i will probably stop to use any amigaOS and use just AROS.
I hope AROS hit this state :-? .
Lets see why, FFFRRRREEEEEEEE, FAAAASSSSSSTTTTT and i don´t need to buy a $$$$$$$ PPCBoard :-D , but this is just a dream, if MorphOS follow the X86 path... well another dream.
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I agree with paul_gadd 100% I think he's right on the money.
not a chance of making a big comback... at most it'll survive as a niche market hobby machine ... but probably wont get further then that.