Amiga.org
Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: david on September 29, 2004, 12:12:56 AM
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This is to force Apple to give up its control of the PowerPC.
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An apple a day keeps the docter away!
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I have no problem with Apple.
They are much of the reason why the PPC is here in
the first place.
My wife has a sleek Apple contraption that never
stops amazing me when it comes to stability.
So I guess that Jobs has gotten something right...
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Unfortunately, since Apple has exclusive rights to the G5, Amiga users cannot have the current hardware. Also Amiga will always fall behind ht eMac is no one cares, like you two.
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david wrote:
Unfortunately, since Apple has exclusive rights to the G5, Amiga users cannot have the current hardware. Also Amiga will always fall behind ht eMac is no one cares, like you two.
Exclusive rights? "Amiga"?
Well, that's one way to look at it, I suppose.
AmigaOS users cannot have "current hardware" (i.e. iMacs/PowerMacs if you're talking about "G5" machines) because the OS isn't allowed to be made for current hardware. That would require Apple or an Apple dealer to suddenly go insane and enter a licensing deal with KMOS to sell AmigaOS bundled with Macs.
It's the AmigaOS owners/licensors/whatever-KMOS-are-supposed-to-be-referred-to-as that are stopping AmigaOS from being sold for proper hardware, not hardware companies.
See my signature if you're really that new here.
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:lol:
This is to force Apple to give up its control of the PowerPC
What's wrong with Apple?
(And more importantly, why have you posted this under 'suggestions and feedback'?)
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My thoughts:-
1. There is nothing wrong with Apple
2. They produce the best and most reliable home computers available
3. They make the most advanced and stable OS available
4. This thread is stupid and should be closed and deleted
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david wrote:
Unfortunately, since Apple has exclusive rights to the G5, Amiga users cannot have the current hardware. Also Amiga will always fall behind ht eMac is no one cares, like you two.
It's not Apple's fault you can't run AmigaOS4 on a G5, it's Amiga Inc's fault.
If I could run AmigaOS4 on Apple hardware, I'd be in like Flynn.
As it is, they waited too long and the only "Amiga" licensed hardware is just too outdated. Maybe someday I'll buy an Amiga, when the draconian licensing scheme no longer exists. Hell, even Microsoft doesn't dictate what hardware I can use, when you're worse than MS, you know there's a problem.
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@HopperJF
1. Yes there is. They are guilty of price fixing and other monopolistic tactics. (ie. the iPod battery incident, the suit against Musicmatch for daring to load songs "illegally" onto iPods, etc.) They're no better than Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft.
2. Best? That's too subjective to say. Most reliable? Care to back that up with actual facts?
3. Again, subjective. I'd say that some of the real time OSs would be more advanced and a helllllll of a lot more stable. (Kernel changes while running without a reboot ever... I don't think Mach can do that).
4. I agree.
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This is to force Apple to give up its control of the PowerPC.
Apple don't have control of he PowerPC, they appear to have special access to the fastest chips yes, but thats only for a limited time - anyone can buy G5s.
Even if Amiga or Genesi had access to the fastest chips they couldn't afford them in the quantities they buy so it's completely irrelevant.
The vast majority of PPCs are sold into the embedded market, Apple gets at most a few percent of the PPC chips made.
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david wrote:
Unfortunately, since Apple has exclusive rights to the G5, Amiga users cannot have the current hardware. Also Amiga will always fall behind ht eMac is no one cares, like you two.
Apple does not have exclusive rights to the G5. IBM and others offer PowerPC 970/970fx based workstations.
Edit: Yes, they probably have rights to the G5 name, but that doesn't mean much since they made it up. :-D
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IBM, Motorola and Apple all control PowerPC. Its their product, they can do what they like with it.
Given that IBM and Motorola like making money, no reason why it can't be sold to others - and already is.
Samuar
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Nothing wrong with Apple at all. I happen to love my Macs as much as my Pegasos II.
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I'll say this: given Jobs' personality, if the shoe were on the other foot, Apple would be no different from Microsoft.
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Acill wrote:
Nothing wrong with Apple at all. I happen to love my Macs as much as my Pegasos II.
Me too. The only thing I don't like about this iBook is how slow it feels compared to Pegasos and MorphOS (even thought the Peg is supposedly slower). But I still love it. I wish something like Apple's iLife package was available for MorphOS.
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I hate macintosh. Its stealing market from us. But Amiga will beat it someday, just like Atari.
Have a look at average mac user:
http://strangecosmos.com/content/item/5975.html
:-)
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Its stealing market from us.
:-)
LOL! Hey Orange, EVERYTHING is stealing market from us! (if we are even really in it). We're not directly in the current market until the next Amiga(like) OS (any flavour of it) matures and becomes a real alternative to mainstream users and current offerings. I'm sure some users have stopped using their Amiga's for games and started using their PS2 or GBA. How come no-ones attacking them with the same zeal! A friend of mine sold his A1200 to partly fund a new washing machine. Oh No! All boycott Zanussi because my mate left the Amiga for them
Kev
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@ david
more Apple sold= more PPC sold
more PPC sold=more PPC produced
more PPC produced=less PPC price
ergo . . . it is a good thing for us also ;-)
Bye
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And to add this to framiga`s statement:
more ppc amigas(micro & xe) sold = cheaper products in the future
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Errrr... I'm no economist but....
The more PPC demand, with limited supply, the greater the cost.
But I do get what you're saying...Without the demand there would be no PPC. Still.....
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1 Overpriced
2 cheaply made
3 poor quality look on ebay for faulty macs loads of them
4 about 5 games availabe.
5 a pc is a quarter of the cost and is cheap to upgrade, with a mac you have to upgrade by buying a new one .
6 software has to be bought online
they used to be the graphics computers now most things are done on a pc.
- edited by mikeymike - trolling
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Ok guys, go easy on the flamethrowers!
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well maybee we should ask how many ppl who have an amiga do they also owen a mac as well
cause out off all the amiga ppl i know most have an apple as well as an amiga
but only 1 has a pc
and quite a few have just bought the new imac g5 as have i
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david wrote:
Unfortunately, since Apple has exclusive rights to the G5, Amiga users cannot have the current hardware. Also Amiga will always fall behind ht eMac is no one cares, like you two.
I'm not sure they have exclusive rights to the G5 processor (I assume you mean the processor). It's about who gets priority when the processors are produced. Apple buys thousands of processors at one time, the Eyetech and Genesi only a few hundred at best. The "Amiga companies" are just not particularly valued customers until they start to buy large volumes.
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- edited by mikeymike - trolling -
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Give me a break man...I didn't write anything wrong!
I was just giving my opinion about Macs...
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@david
Apple's "control" of the PPC is due solely to the fact that they go
through a guesstimated 190,000 G4s and 160,000 G5's per month*.
Eyetech and Genesi combined won't see that many processors for many
years.
*numbers estimated from
here (http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/07/14.14.shtml).
breakdown (numbers are approximate):
80,000 Imacs and Emacs/month (assume 50/50 split, stats are for G4
Imac, assumes G5 sales will be similar)
60,000 Powermacs/month (two G5s each)
80,000 Ibooks and 70,000 Powerbooks/month (all G4)
unknown number of Xserves.
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amigamad wrote:
1 Overpriced
2 cheaply made
3 poor quality look on ebay for faulty macs loads of them
4 about 5 games availabe.
5 a pc is a quarter of the cost and is cheap to upgrade, with a mac you have to upgrade by buying a new one .
6 software has to be bought online
they used to be the graphics computers now most things are done on a pc.
- edited by mikeymike - trolling
Yeah I dont blame you for editing, mikeymike as 80% of this post is utter tripe
1. Overpriced? Theyre cheaper than these new Amigas you are all talking about
2. Cheaply made? Thats why they have won many awards for best computer designs...
3. Poor quality? More durable than most PC's.. so I doubt it. No viruses for a start and as for physical build theyre one of the best built computers I have ever used, and that is a lot of machines over the years :-)
4. 5 games? Multiply that by a thousand, double it and times it by 3
5. You can upgrade all Macs..
6. No it doesnt.. even GAME have started stocking Mac games in stores.
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@HopperJF
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3. No viruses? B.S. There aren't as many, but there are Mac viruses and worms.
4. 30000 games? More B.S. The Mac library isn't near that, probably <1000 games for the platform.
5. Really? How do I upgrade an iMac to a 17" screen? Newer video card? Etc. Sure, the high end Macs are upgradable and you can stick a CPU card in most of them but the consumer models are not upgradeable.
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adolescent wrote:
@HopperJF
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3. No viruses? B.S. There aren't as many, but there are Mac viruses and worms.
4. 30000 games? More B.S. The Mac library isn't near that, probably <1000 games for the platform.
5. Really? How do I upgrade an iMac to a 17" screen? Newer video card? Etc. Sure, the high end Macs are upgradable and you can stick a CPU card in most of them but the consumer models are not upgradeable.
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I've never once been infected with a virus or spyware in 3 years of using Macs online through ADSL connections. When using my PC I was infected within minutes of going online, and a weekly AdAware scan usually found 30-50 items.
If you want to use a 17" screen on your iMac just plug in an external monitor.
You can upgrade an iMac with a new CPU, hard drive, memory, optical drive. If you want to completely upgrade your old iMac you should just sell it on Ebay (Macs hold their value extremely well, unlike PC's) and get a new model - it would probably work out cheaper than buying all the bits yourself, even if that were possible.
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I've never once been infected with a virus or spyware in 3 years
Neither have I, and I use Windows. Your point?
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1. Overpriced? Theyre cheaper than these new Amigas you are all talking about
afraid not my amigaone never even cost half of what the g5 mac does .
my pc runs windows 2000 and is very stable a pc is easier to find certain software for, the g5 mac is a nice machine and os x looks good but at around £2,500 upwards its way more than i would spend on a computer .i dont like the emac because i dont like intergrated electronics .
I do like apple there the only competition or choice apart from linnux or unix based machines. :-)
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Lando wrote:
If you want to use a 17" screen on your iMac just plug in an external monitor.
That'd be attractive. The iMac with an extra screen sitting next to it.
You can upgrade an iMac with a new CPU, hard drive, memory, optical drive. If you want to completely upgrade your old iMac you should just sell it on Ebay (Macs hold their value extremely well, unlike PC's) and get a new model - it would probably work out cheaper than buying all the bits yourself, even if that were possible.
CPU? Where? I have yet to see a CPU upgrade for the iMac.
Hard drive and memory sure...
Optical drive? Again, I've never seen an internal upgrade, perhaps they are out there but they are not cost effective (example buying an OEM superdrive)
Video card? You didn't answer this, because again it's not offered.
You proved the point. The only way to upgrade the consumer models is to trash them and buy another one. They are closed systems, which in general is bad. On a laptop I can understand, because they are specialized components. But, on a desktop computer it's unacceptable.
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adolescent wrote:
CPU? Where? I have yet to see a CPU upgrade for the iMac.
There was for the old CRT imacs
Hard drive and memory sure...
Optical drive? Again, I've never seen an internal upgrade, perhaps they are out there but they are not cost effective (example buying an OEM superdrive)
Dunno
Video card? You didn't answer this, because again it's not offered.
Again CRT imacs
You proved the point. The only way to upgrade the consumer models is to trash them and buy another one. They are closed systems, which in general is bad. On a laptop I can understand, because they are specialized components. But, on a desktop computer it's unacceptable.
It´s perfect from the companys p.o.v
Bill Gates wishes he could do it. So does Genesi and Eyetech. just look at development of cars. or mobilephones.
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B00tDisk wrote:
I'll say this: given Jobs' personality, if the shoe were on the other foot, Apple would be no different from Microsoft.
There is no diffrence!
Do you want to hear my rant about Newton again?
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1. Overpriced? Theyre cheaper than these new Amigas you are all talking about
Everything is cheaper than Amiga.
2. Cheaply made? Thats why they have won many awards for best computer designs...
Design, maybe... but they've had a boatload of reliability problems, like CD-Roms disappearing for no reason, not waking up from sleep mode (ever), and what about all those Cubes overheating cause Apple was too brass to put a 1,000 RPM fan at the bottom, which makes less noise than the quietest hard drive? Not every computer needs a 4,500 RPM 80mm fan... or two... or five.
3. Poor quality? More durable than most PC's.. so I doubt it. No viruses for a start and as for physical build theyre one of the best built computers I have ever used, and that is a lot of machines over the years
What about all the Power Macs with plastic hinges and fans that got power by mating with connectors built into the case? It was very stressful to open up those machines
5. You can upgrade all Macs..
But MacOS won't recognize most of them. CPU modules are a killer. You can't replace an Apple motherboard unless you replace your whole case. Even many prebuilt PC builders don't do that.
Neither have I, and I use Windows. Your point?
I second that. I repair PCs all the time and they are loaded with Spyware. I myself never had problems and IE was my default browser until the beginning of this year. Sounds to me that people get viruses and spyware because they are just stupid and say "yes" to every Install-On-Demand.
afraid not my amigaone never even cost half of what the g5 mac does.
Most people that point out the cost of the G5 point at the dual CPU model. The single CPU isn't that costly, but for the money you definately deserve a better hard drive and graphics card. I was ticked off when the $2,000 Macs built a few years ago gave you a GeForce2 MX when the full GeForce 3 was top of the line.
I do like apple there the only competition or choice apart from linnux or unix based machines.
True, but MacOS X today is more of less just a replacement for X Windows.
CPU? Where? I have yet to see a CPU upgrade for the iMac.
There was for the old CRT imacs
Wha? I thought iMacs only had memory expansion slots and that was it.
They are closed systems, which in general is bad.
Almost everything other than the PC is that way. I can't blame Apple for holding onto their vertical monopoly, but I do blame Steve Jobs for being the biggest ***hole in the industry. Bill Gates is annoying, but Jobs just burns me to the core -- and that stupid smirk of his doesn't help.
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@Dan
I realize there were upgrades for the CRT models, even G4s. But I was talking about modernizing a modern computer. There are no worthwhile upgrades for the iMac G4 (well, besides scrapping your 2 year old comptuer and spending another $2k on an iMac G5).
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mikeymike wrote:
I've never once been infected with a virus or spyware in 3 years
Neither have I, and I use Windows. Your point?
That Windows PC's are much more vulnerable to Spyware, hijack and virus attacks than Macs running OS X.
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david wrote:
This is to force Apple to give up its control of the PowerPC.
Dude, you've come up with one of the funniest threads ever.
(http://nedmartin.org/amused/pics/switch-to-macintosh.jpg)