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Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: WarPiper on February 12, 2003, 07:14:24 AM
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ok, this is the end of the line for me and the Amiga.
it is no longer a useable system for me, nor is it worth upgrading anymore. Sorry to say this but it is a dead machine (platform for that matter) I do not see Amiga going anywhere in the future with their endevers for a new system, nor do I ever think that it will make a very supportive comeback. I will not support the Amiga in the future untill after it has been out a while and I see that there is REAL software and support, I just grew tired of being behind the times, not having software/hardware that meets todays demands for business and entertainment, and educational needs.
Sorry but when I look at my Amiga systems I see large paper weights that burn electric. I have had absolutly no desire to even turn on the Amiga for over the past year, so, with that said, I am throwing in the towel.
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Been there, done that. I kept the A2000 running though and I still get pleasure from it.
The A4000 and A3000 hardly ever even get turned on these days.
I get to play with lots of new softs on win during the day, everything from MPEG encoding to DVD authoring and playing with images in both Photoshop and Corel DRAW, but quite honestly it gets boring.
I'd much rather be stretching my grey matter figuring faster and more efficient ways to get things done on the BBS machine (the A2k) under ARexx.
Hopefully we'll oneday see a real Amiga resurgence.
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WarPiper wrote:
ok, this is the end of the line for me and the Amiga.
it is no longer a useable system for me, nor is it worth upgrading anymore. Sorry to say this but it is a dead machine (platform for that matter) I do not see Amiga going anywhere in the future with their endevers for a new system, nor do I ever think that it will make a very supportive comeback. I will not support the Amiga in the future untill after it has been out a while and I see that there is REAL software and support, I just grew tired of being behind the times, not having software/hardware that meets todays demands for business and entertainment, and educational needs.
Sorry but when I look at my Amiga systems I see large paper weights that burn electric. I have had absolutly no desire to even turn on the Amiga for over the past year, so, with that said, I am throwing in the towel.
Sorry to hear that. I use my Amiga's a little less than I used to. I haven't turned on any of the A1200's I have (one with 68060) for over a year. I do still use my A4000/060/PPC atleast a few times a week (mostly to do a Canberra Amiga Users Society newletter, we still have 12 members). I even installed some rounded IDE cables and a few "disco" cold cathode lights and fans that light up ;) But I'd never think of using that as a paper weight (could use it as a light source), although at one stage I didn't turn it on for a few months.
I use PC's alot. For games, Digital video, school stuff etc. I'm actually thinking of buying a completely new setup (well, the AthlonXP 2400+ I thought I killed with my current setup still works, so I need to put together a computer to use it). Actually thinking of adding a Sony DRU-500A DVD burner (Burns every DVD burning format and is pretty good value) to the new setup when I put things together. Even after making a monster of a PC (more of a monster than my current beast), I'll probably still do the odd thing with my A4000/060/PPC. Atleast the Amiga's simplicity/familiarity (well I have used Amiga's for over 10 years) will cool my brain after playing with the windblows box.
Oh well, I hope that the AmigaOne will go somewhere. Just hope that it doesn't go to the rubbish bin. The AmigaOne and AmigaOS 4.0 do have potential. Let's just hope (damn, I've used that word yet again).
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Hi all,
Yer all a bunch of deadbeat defeatists ;-) (joke)
Seriously though, I use my A1200T/040PPC/Bvision based miggy on a daily basis and for all kinds of things from coding, art, composition, mastering you name it. It's my PC that sits gathering dust until I need to port some code to Wind'ohs or work on java etc.
I guess it all comes down to what people want out of their machine.
If any of you have got any A4000/060 paperweights you don't want, give them to me ;-)
Maybe when (sigh) the newer hardware appears you'll be enticed again...
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Bye - enjoy reinstalling Windows every month.
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Bye - enjoy reinstalling Windows every month.
LOL. It ain't _quite_ that bad........................
I have to admit the 1200T don't get used as much as it used to. I've started using UAE and with my AthlonXP 1700 running Win2K and UAE, it easily outruns my 060. Try running say ImageFX on an 060, then run the same script on a fast(ish) UAE setup; you won't want to go back.
I don't for one minute think emulation is the answer, but to get speed of use on Apps NOW, it's the only solution.
When the full Amiga solution becomes available (OS4+G3/4 H/W), I'll buy into that, as it would (should!)easily give the speed that I would like to see.
Hmm, maybe I'll breakout the G-Lock and turn the 1200 back into a video experimentation box.
-john
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@KennyR
As mindboggling as it can be even M$ have gone forward. And much more than any Amiga during these years you have been playing Caveman :-P .. So it's no longer matter of installing it again each month (nor even rebooting it weekly) cause those are no needed anymore.
But the sad fact is that this Windowse PC feels so boring, I've been trying to find workable alternativies (linux= even worse) but all of them have failed one after another. And now, after waited AmigaOne+OS4 for 2 years it seems time wasted.
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Gone forward to what, JoannaK? WindowsXP? I'd say that was a step back. Every time they push the hardware forward, Windows gets more bloated and keeps its usability almost the same. Takes a lot of patience to use the thing. It always has.
And lets not forget all the other nice things about Windows, like progress bars that jump to 98% in a second then sit there for an hour, or inexplicable redrawing of the desktop icons (which seems only to have been added to slow the PC down), and lets not forget the Windows registry - perhaps the most significant invention since the Gatling gun. (Which, by the way, despite XP's claims it can self-repair, is often the reason for most re-installs...)
This caveman prefers the FAR FAR superior OS technology behind QNX... :-) Now, if it only had the software...
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As mindboggling as it can be even M$ have gone forward. And much more than any Amiga during these years you have been playing Caveman .. So it's no longer matter of installing it again each month (nor even rebooting it weekly) cause those are no needed anymore
You are right to an extent. It's not nearly as bad as it use to be. But Windows still has alot of issues. I see them on a daily basis. And in some cases, it will require at least an overlay install to correct problems. And if you are running a machine which goes for a week without rebooting, you must not be doing much directly with the system. But if you are running 2k or XP you are more likely than with any other version to not have as many problems.
and lets not forget the Windows registry - perhaps the most significant invention since the Gatling gun. (Which, by the way, despite XP's claims it can self-repair, is often the reason for most re-installs...)
Yeah, those self repairs. Or the "Restore Points" that fail to restore. The registry is THE biggest problem left in Windows.
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I have to admit I'm very much with WarPiper on this. Ever since Umilator was finally shelved I've been losing interest in Amiga use at an alarming rate. My A1200 and A4000, although well equipped, have sat unpowered by my desk for many months now. I only boot into Amithlon to play "Tales of Tamar" these days, and that's about it. I see no future of any interest whatsoever in current developments. To me the A1 and Pegasos are a rather sorry cross between an overpriced entry level PC and a crippled cut down Mac. Rather than be excited by them I have to admit they both bore me to tears. AmigaOS4 and to a lesser extent MorphOS would be of some interest to an OS junky like me, but not enough to go out and buy hardware I don't rate just so I can enjoy the priviledge. After all, if I haven't done that for MacOS X and a nice G4 Mac, I sure as hell am not likely to be doing it for an A1 or Pegasos and the much less supported AmigaOS or MorphOS.
It's sad, but for me and I suspect WarPiper this is really the end of an era. It's not a question of no longer hoping that Amigas will make a comeback, it's more like a certainty that they simply won't. Time to stop spending money on Amiga hardware and software and channel it elsewhere, where I can view it as an investment rather than a waste.
Not to mention that the higher eschalons (sp?) of the Amiga community seem to have migrated from highly skilled and technically adept and respected individuals to ignorant, crass and dishonest egomaniacs. (That's a generalisation, I know, and unfair to some people).
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@WarPiper
These are sentiments which I think most of us can echo. We're all fed up! I personally gave up on the Amiga as a serious alternative a while ago but I still use and enjoy using mine every day and you should too. I agree with you about the present situation though. The whole affair has degenerated into a farce and I think only the most fervent optimists (God bless 'em) could really think there's any chance of salvaging something from the sorry state which currently exists.
What's most galling about all of this is that the name Amiga is starting to induce howls of derisive laughter because of all the false starts and empty promises of a "resurrection". Ironically if the machine had been allowed to die with some dignity after Commodore's downfall instead of being picked apart by the vultures, its chances of a revival at some point and in some form would have been much better.
As for re-installing Windows every month, it's something I'm all too familiar with. Well, maybe not every month but far too often for my liking. (For those who think I may be a complete novice and reach for my Windows CD every time I get an illegal exception message, I can assure you that this is not the case). Let's face it folks, Windows has some nice features but overall, it's a bit of a mess.
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well when we are enjoying our a1,s i hope you all look back and realize that you bailed at the wrong time Amiga is and will be back bigger and better !!!!!!!!! :-D :-P :-)
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I can see how you would want to bail out, but for me my A3000 is a fun hobby. I got it when it forst came out and have put so much time and cash into updating it over the years. I am luky and have a very nice PC as well as this A3000. Since I got my 060 and put the A3000 into a tower and got a mediator there hasnt been much I cant do on it tha tI do on the PC. I am even using the Amiga to write this post on a 1024X768 32 bit screen. Have faith and dont toss the Amiga out or sell it. I got rid of my A1000 way back and have regreted it ever since.
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@ WarPiper,
ok, this is the end of the line for me and the Amiga.
Well, then give them or sell them to someone that will use them. :-)
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Amiga is and will be back bigger and better !!!!!!!!!
Change the record, nearly 10 years we have heard the same thing and where is this amazing come back? Amiga computers will never be a hugh success like they was in the late 80s/early 90s,
One thing to remember is not everyone is a blind follower.
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Hmm i gave up a few years ago (2000 to be exact) at the time i was having more and more problems with the scsi in my A4000 untill one day i had enough and the PC got more and more usage and i sold the a4k! since then i bought several Amigas for myself and built machines for others purely as a hobby thing! these days i have several classic miggys here wich i turn on every now and then sometimes for nostalgia and other times just cause i like amIRC :) i also have a Pegasos wich get more or less no usage thanx to the BB2 bug wich i hope will get a replacement board for soon! all i can say to those selling theyre gear is! DONT FORGET AROS :) one day it WILL be great OS i have no doubt in my mind about this.
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Its a sad situation, but I am slowly moving in that direction myself.
I used to be a big amiga fan, but since I got a PC a year ago I have hardly turned my A1200 on at all. I've waited and waited for resurrection from Escom, Gateway and Amiga Inc but am just simply too tired of waiting. From now on Amiga will not be anything other than a hobby, I have to have a PC for my work, the software just doesn't exist for amiga.
I'm very impressed with the development of the C=One and I look forward to buying that, as for the AOne, when it is released with AOS4, I'll buy it if i have the money spare and hopefully that will boost me out of this "AmigaDepression".
ptepppic
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I still "love" my amiga.
But I am so tired of being kept in the dark, so god damn tired of every thing beeing prosponed all the time.
So I am also moving in the PC direction.
I am sure that new amiga HW and OS can really kick some serious @ss, but amiga really really need to finish it very soon... not in an toher half year or so..
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Hello WarPiper,
I'm sorry to hear that. :-(
But I also understand it. :-)
Look at me: until yesterday I only had my A1200 at home (and 2 fully operating Vic20's :-D) and I had ordered a AmigaOne.
Because of all delays I "bailed out" of my order for the AOne and instead ordered a Pegasos.
And why you may ask? Because I also want speed and todays hardware (ofcourse I don't mean the latest state of the art hardware).
Because of what I heard about these two systems (that they only would emulate (JIT) original Amiga software, but no hardware depent software) it doesn't matter for me if I take the official Amiga or a "clone" of it.
As I see the future is software support for both systems. Look at IBrowse 2.3. On their site they also mention MorphOS while IBrowse will come with OS4.
The new games which are coming now. People say for MorphOS, but look at their site and there it states: also for OS4 when it comes (the game is Alien Nation or something like it).
For me I'll support both systems and at first the software companies who are making stuff for OS4/MorphOS. I just bought the full version of IBrowse. I'll buy one of these two games when it emerges on the street (to buy two similar games is a bit too much for me :-)).
Take care,
Spidey
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after waited AmigaOne+OS4 for 2 years it seems time wasted.
Lets be alittle realistic here, did you really expect OS4 to be released 1 or 2 years ago? Sure you maybe could have had 1 year ago and not so usable state.
You only have to look at MorphOS, its been in development long before there was even a plan for OS4, bill was not CEO of Amiga and MCC was prolly the next big Amiga thing.
If you want a miracle, then MorphOS would be in its final state, not still what it seems is Beta form after 4+ years?
We could prolly all have a beta OS4 if thats what public would want but personally i don't, i'm willing to wait, have the job done proper.
To way up its timeframe against Morphos development with a non beta release due any month now then Hyperion have been doing a very quick fully commited job.
Will it be any good? I sure hope so but the truth will be in the use, they have a great team, they aint rushing it just to get it there either. Some things our worth waiting for and for me this is the one, Morph to i would happliy try out if it will work on the H/W
As an added curious note, can the latest builds of Morph be run on classic Amiga PPC hardware?
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heard it all before...
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Well if you don't use or enjoy using your current Amiga(s) then I can understand throwing in the towel...but for me the Amiga is still a fun hobby (and not my main machine) so regardless of what happens or doesn't happen down the road I'm gonna keep my A1200.
Although I respect Hyperion and salute their efforts I'm pretty skeptical about the next generation Amigas, considering the company that's supposedly leading the charge into this brave new future can't even deliver on a simple T-shirt campaign.
:-?
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@WarPiper
goodbye then ill still be going on and have a little faith theres not that much an amiga cant do if its upgraded your just scared of spending money.
ive just won a bid on ebay for an amiga 1000 ive wanted one of these for ages it cost me 113 pounds to get but its a collectors machine like my cdtv .I only want a genuine amiga 4000 tower now and the full motion cartridge for a cd32 so it can play vcd,s,
and ive orderd an amigaone after all its only money and its no good to you if you die. :-D :-D :-D
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I agree.
I am in the process of getting some money orders together to send to "64 and more store".
I want a 2000, a 3000, and a 500+.
Why?
BECAUSE I CAN!! :-D :-D
I don't use my 1200/060 for much serious stuff. But it is as tricked out as a 1200 can get, barring PPC.
I even have a printer switcher for sharing my Epson 740 between my Compaq and Amiga.
This is my hobby. I love my A1200 so much I am going to buy a spare motherboard (3.1) to have in case anything happens to mine.
Fer cryin' out loud, it's only money. We NEED to have something to do. A hobby. The Amiga is a great hobby machine.
I still need some games tho'
WAIT A MINUTE! Both of my computers are from companies that are broke!!!
;-) :lol: :pint:
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@KennyR
I have to agree with you about windows xp, I think that is just windows 2000 with alot of eye candy and unneeded junk, But as far as windows 2000 pro goes, I have installed it in april of 2001, and have never had to reinstall, reconfigure, reformat anything (well except for a 120Gb HD added to a secoundary IDE to act as a F/G drive). I can understand your complaints if this was windows 95 or 98 or hell even ME (me really sucked), but sorry your general complaints fall on deaf ears right now.
As much as we all dislike to give the big MS any credit, they have done alot with windows 2000 pro, they have security patchs and software updates almost everyday to help with problems the users have through out their use. Windows 2000 Pro in my own opinion is a very stable and efficient OS for these days and ages. lets face it the days of the 8 bit micro OS's had gone the way of the Atari or C= (belly up)
But enough about MS Windows, I am not writing to bash any operating system or platform, I still love the amiga, but I have long ago turned from blue to purple with holding my breath, waiting for something new, spending my check, emptying my pockets for the next Amiga hardware hack that will most likely put my family in the poor house, and still not be able to do what I need to do. My son needs a computer for school, none of the school software will work on the amiga, my wife needs a fashion design stiching program its not on the amiga, I need to use excel, (I, unfortunitly need to bring home work from the office). Its just basice needs that are required everyday that put me off from the amiga because I can not use it.
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@WarPiper
I totally agree with you, Amiga has a great OS and some good software but as needed/standard everyday software goes the Amiga totally stinks and can not be consider anything more than a hobby machine,
I will not purchase a NG Amiga or Pegasos because there is no point whatsoever in buying something expensive where the software is not even there and never will be,
I will continue to enjoy running Amiga software via Amithlon and UAE as that is the only way i will run Amiga software at great speeds without wasting cash on a dead duck.
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As you wish. My whole system would have to explode before I get rid of mine. I use it daily for all sorts of stuff. In fact, I can't think of a single thing I "need" a PC for. This lil' old machine does everything I want. So I will continue to buy software and hardware as long as it's produced (and beyond that via the second-hand market). LONG LIVE AMIGA!
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@Paul_Gadd
Exactly. I think it is stupid to run out an purchase the first new system from any company that has to first make a market. I would like to try Amithlon. WinAUE, I am not all that thrilled about because I would like to take the drive from my 4000 and just shove it in my pc and still run all the software that I had on my amiga, I also would have liked to create a dual boot PC/Amiga system, but that is out of the question now.
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@WarPiper
I would like to take the drive from my 4000 and just shove it in my pc and still run all the software that I had on my amiga
I backed up my harddrive to cdrw in my old A1200 a few week before it died and now run the stuff on the x86 machine like i never left plus the extra benefit of running massive 32bit screenmodes without paying premuim for PCI boards and slow PCI graphic cards,
a dual boot PC/Amiga system
I dual boot Win 2000 pro and Amithlon and it is great to get the best of both worlds without purchasing expensive hardware.
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I have an A4000T / 060 and it still works. I do simple word processing and DTP with Final Writer. It does what I want, although a bit slowly. I hate to switch to another system and reformat everything in different software, but I'm going to have to.
I plan to drop the Amiga soon because there's no one to fix it if it breaks and I don't know how to get on the Internet with it. I will move to the Mac, if I can decide which one to buy. Wintel machines are out of the question; they aren't any fun.
I'll probably keep the Amiga around in case it comes back, but I'm not holding my breath.
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My last amiga died on me over two years ago now, in this time i have used various versions of windows (XP at the moment) and i must say that i could not got back to amiga now for two reasons, 1) WinUAE is much faster than any amiga i have owned and 2) i would miss my online gaming, Medal of Honor etc, also i must point out that windows is bloated but XP has done me well, it is rock solid stable for me, please dont flame me, by the way amiga os is my favorite os by far.
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@amigamad
I'm with you, as I just said on another thread, I'm still using my original a1000 forgames, damn thing cost me $2200 USD back in '86, gotta keep getting my moneys worth out of the old gal. Keep having FUN with your Miggies!
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My gf threw out my aging amiga from my attic when we moved house. Sure it was tucked away gathering dust, but that by no means, said that it was worthless. Damn her. Anyways I regretted her doing that for a very long time. So much memories were riding on that thing. The long nights spent playing Superfrog with my brothers. The day my dad bought me the 512K expansion slot, so I could play the optimised version of SimCity and the expansion graphics packs. aaahh.
Yeah I have no Amiga now, and in fact go over to a friends house to ocassionaly play SuperCars I (which I can't get to work on any emulator for the life of me) And you know what I still love it. Before you scream blind fanatic, I happen to own 6 PeeCees, all networked running a myriad of m$ Oses, ranging from 98SE to XP to 2000 Server. I run an elaborate LAN and ftp/internet gateway. I know all there is to know about NT admin, I happen to work as one. But having said all this, I still look forward to an Amiga resurgence.
Its not that I don't acknowledge the advancements that m$ have made, heck I'd be a hypocrite if I did, since I spend most of my time using and benefitting from all this development that has brought the m$ platform where it is today. The thing is that computing has lost a sense of itself, since the Atari vs Amiga days. We have lost what it means to have fun computing. These days I waddle to my desktop and surf the net for anything, play 20 minutes of UT2K3 and then use Mirc the rest of the time. Wow aren't I having real fun here!
Give me back my Amiga dammit!
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The fact I'm not much of a gameplayer anymore makes it easy to stick with Windows 2000, but I'm simply not going to upgrade Windows anymore because I'm fed up with it all. Windows has plenty of things that drive me crazy, and there's no easy way around it. I really want to use something else, but as much as I hate Windows, I hate everything else even more.
The only reason I still come to Amiga.org is because I'm just looking for something to replace Windows. I don't really care what it is, so long as it works. I tried Linux and hated it (even more today than I did a few years ago). I use a Mac at work, and I think it's just such a primitive system, on top of the fact they cost too much and are loaded with bugs (boy, I could tell you stories about my years as a Mac system administrator, like the time half the machines in the office couldn't use their CD-ROMs after installing MacOS 8.0 from scratch on all of them!)
BeOS is pretty much dead, and everything else is designed to be a clone of UNIX running XWindows. Even QNX, a true Amiga favorite, drove me nuts with all its cryptic error messages, and I never did figure out how to install the proper network driver.
AmigaOne shattered my confidence in AmigaOS 4. I was really looking forward to using my favorite desktop again, but I don't want expensive, obsolete hardware on which to run it, especially since the board will sell only in the thousands, and will not get any serious software support. The Teron board on which the AmigaOne board is based is already out of manufacture -- and the OS hasn't even been released, yet! If Amiga Inc. does anything with DE, support for AmigaOne will be dropped as soon as possible.
At least Macs give you the latest standards and newest PowerPC chips. The AmigaOne really has nothing to offer that hasn't already been done on PC's three years ago. PC's can use external USB2.0 hard drives. Will AmigaOne do that? Sure, if you spend extra money on a USB2.0 card, which doesn't exist, and probably never will.
And let's not forget that many Amiga standards aren't even supported by the AmigaOne. I have a 1200, and support for a floppy drive is a must so I can use all my old software again. How do I use Amiga floppies in an AmigaOne? Buy a 3rd party floppy controller, of course! How silly of me to think that Amiga floppy disks would be supported on Amiga hardware. Macs can do away with the floppy drive since they've been as dependent on hard drives as Windows. Many old Amigans are not so fortunate. Besides, having a floppy drive on a PC is a choice, and it's practically free. Being forced not to use one unless you buy expensive hardware is pretty stupid. $100 USB floppy drives that you can't use as boot devices? Please...
AmigaDE was, and is, the only thing that still interests me. I won't be upgrading Windows any time soon, anyway, so I can certainly wait for it. If DE never sees the light of day, then I'll just have to wait for something else, and I don't see anything else over the horizon.
Basicly, by stance on the Amiga is that there's a lot of good functionality in AmigaOS that's going to waste. The OS itself is dead. The only thing that really has potential is Workbench. It frightens me how much people fight over AmigaOS, but speak little about Workbench. I bought an Amiga 1000 many years ago not because of Shadow of the Beast, but because of Workbench.
People obsess over the boing ball. Why? Boing just demonstrated the graphical power of the OCS chipset. Workbench is what allowed you to do anything useful! I think the Workbench checkmark logo is a far better corporate icon than the checkered ball.
If I were going to make a new OS, I'd license QNX as the core, make a new desktop based heavily on Workbench, and make a scriptable, networkable GUI language, so you could easily write your own architecture-independent applications (Citrix, anyone?)
Amiga, and anyone else, can still do that, but I doubt Amiga Inc. has the insight to pull it off. Besides, we all know Amiga is owned by TAO, so the future of Amiga depends on what TAO wants to do with the machine. That might not even have anything to do with desktop computers! Since when have we heard anything from Amiga Inc. about future software? Hyperion is the only company that seems to be releasing any information at all.
Anyone who thinks Windows will roll over and die anytime soon has some screws loose. I don't see anyone else with a promising product besides Apple, and I don't like their business practices. I hate Windows, but Amiga, and everything else, does not impress me in the slightest.
The future looks bleak, if you ask me.
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Picasso_41: I will move to the Mac, if I can decide which one to buy.
iMac, really expensive iMac with PCI slots, or stripped down iMac for your lap. Shouldn't be too hard.
Sorry, I just really hate the Mac's form factor. The towers are just iMacs in $500 cases (although if you spend more, they'll give you a faster processor, and a non-MX graphics card. Wow.)