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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Jose on February 12, 2003, 01:44:07 AM

Title: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Jose on February 12, 2003, 01:44:07 AM
Yap, amazing never had happened to me. Makes you wonder if the lack of speed sometimes isn't just made up by the providers...It was on peer to peer though.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: odin on February 12, 2003, 01:50:55 AM
Only possible with uncompressed data, such as bitmaps or text files.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: createcoms on February 12, 2003, 01:59:55 AM
Thats right, there wasnt actually 40kbps being transferred literally but the hardware compression was able to acheive a good result on whatever this uncompressed data was and so reduced the amount of data needed to send so *effectively* u were getting 40kbps.

Kind of cool for some things.  I prefer my 128k full duplex ADSL line which doesnt have hardware compression tho, but cuz its digital (no AD or DAC action going on).

And next year once I got a job I will get my 7.6Mbps ADSL line...... Counterstrike server on me!  :-D  :-D
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Jose on February 12, 2003, 02:16:01 AM
Hmm, ok, I was kinda thinking of puting up ADSL too, but the thing is you have to pay a fixed price with virtually every provider, and they limit your maximum transfers.
I was kinda wondering if that max lim.  is for downloads and not for HTTP, cause in that case some cool software might appear or already exists that... :-D
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Argo on February 12, 2003, 02:35:33 AM
You should be able to max out at 7KBps. Assuming perfect conditions....
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: KennyR on February 12, 2003, 09:17:11 AM
Even if your modem was capable of that speed, the serial connection that connects it to your computer (if it's an external modem) isn't. Serial itself is too slow.

56k is an absolute maximum on an analogue phone line using audio wavelengths. Nothing faster can exist - it's been tried, and isn't reliable. In practise, dialup gives you about 4600cps max of raw transfer speed. If you get over that, it's probably modem compression. Face it, dialup uses a century old technology. Broadband is the present.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Agafaster on February 12, 2003, 09:33:02 AM
Quote

KennyR wrote:

Face it, dialup uses a century old technology. Broadband is the present.


But at around 25 quid a shot its still way too expensive. not to mention 25 to 50 quid connection fee. :pissed:
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: whabang on February 12, 2003, 09:42:49 AM
What do you guys pay for those frigging connections anyway?
I pay 365 SEK ( 43$, 40€, 27£ ) a month for my 2.4 mbit adsl connection. No connection fee.
With a modem I generally got stuck with the same prices, but then I only checked my e-mail with it, allmost no surfing at all.

Now I can surf as much as I want, listen to "high quality" web radio ( don't start about MP3 and DivX, they generally suck big time when it comes to quality... ) etc. etc...
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: KennyR on February 12, 2003, 09:53:39 AM
Quote
But at around 25 quid a shot its still way too expensive. not to mention 25 to 50 quid connection fee


I know - blame BT's monopoly. Europe gets twice the speed for half the price, and it's even cheaper in the US. The fastest DSL in the UK is 1mbit*- that that's £40 a month - ridiculous!

* Edit : Correction - £40 for 1mbit - there is no 2mbit DSL in the UK! :-x

That said, dialup really is too slow. I was sick of its 2 hour cutoffs too. Once you get broadband, you'll never look back. You can even get 128k or 256k ISDN - it's not much more expensive than dialup and is a hell of a lot more usable.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Crumb on February 12, 2003, 10:24:28 AM
In Spain the speed is pathetic and the price is similar :-(
With Cable for example we pay 30€ (VAT not included) monthly for 128kbit (and telephone, phonecalls not included, of course :-( ) the uploads are a bit limited too (1/2 or 3/4 of the download speed) It raises to 36€ after the first 6 months. for 6 or 9 € more you get a 300Kbit connection. AS you can see it's quite expensive compared to the rest of Europe :-( but I find it better than telephone, where you pay 18€ (VAT included) and you can only connect from 6pm to 8am. Now I've seen a company that for 20€ (VAT excluded) gives you 24h phone access :P
ADSL costs 40€ (VAT not included) for 256kbit download/128kbit upload

Although there are 3 or 4 companies that give you ADSL access, it's just an oligopoly and they have more or less the same prices. I don't know anyone with a 2.4Mbit connection and I think that I won't know anyone in many years :-/

In spain not much time ago the only telephone company was Telefonica, the government privatized it and gave it to their friends, and they haven't done anything to improve our connections and lower the prices... Anyway People who voted them don't have a clue about technology and think that paying lots of money for a crappy modem connection or the slowest ADSL/cable connections of europe is cool and that "spain is going well"... government is corrupt and the Bush puppet. They are censoring everything they don't like like in the dictator Franco times... for example what they did with the Prestige was the most stupid thing in the world... they forced the captain to do zig zags instead of moving the ship to a port... and they want to go on and pass the water from one region to other to earn the comisions of the construction companies involved(and punish aragon because they didn't vote them). Thank you Spanish Governmet (PP) for making us travel in time to 1970! for redefining what is people without work or not, for your rubish contracts that now companies can make us, for allowing companies to getting rid of workers without paying a cent... as you can see I love the spanish government  :-x

Well... I'm going to describe the situation in Spain with one word: Pathetic :-( :-x
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: KennyR on February 12, 2003, 11:20:42 AM
Quote
And next year once I got a job I will get my 7.6Mbps ADSL line...... Counterstrike server on me!


That depends on your upload speed. Most ISPs sacrifice it for download speed. I've seen really fast DSL with only 192k upload - not really useful for running any kind of decent game server...
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: YttriumOx on February 12, 2003, 11:20:42 AM
And people wonder why I love my 10Mbit Cable for only $69.95 (about $US35) a month...  :-P  (capped at 3GB downloads (free upload) at which point they speed limit you to 28.8Kbps)
Considering the other major provider here charges only slightly less for a 1.5Mbit Cable with only 550MB a month (after which they charge you for the extra usage, but you maintain the speed), I think I'm getting a pretty good deal.
I can also change my plan on a month by month basis if I want a higher or lower limit at a different price...
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: KennyR on February 12, 2003, 11:22:01 AM
But doesn't cable take a performance hit if lots of people in your neighbourhood are downloading at once?
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Bodie on February 12, 2003, 11:24:22 AM
Quote

YttriumOx wrote:
And people wonder why I love my 10Mbit Cable for only $69.95 (about $US35) a month...  :-P  (capped at 3GB downloads (free upload) at which point they speed limit you to 28.8Kbps)


Optus, eh?

I hope your enjoying your 5 gig download limit ;-) .
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Elektro on February 12, 2003, 11:36:34 AM
Quote

KennyR wrote:
But doesn't cable take a performance hit if lots of people in your neighbourhood are downloading at once?


Not really if the network is designed as it should be nothing slows down. And ADSL has the same problem too. You have your own connection to the DSLAM central but if the network from there to the ISP is full the speed will drop down too.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: ikir on February 12, 2003, 11:43:04 AM
Counter-Strike server? Have you tried NAtural-Selection. I think it is the best games ever.

www.natural-selection.org
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: hnl_dk on February 12, 2003, 11:50:46 AM
whabang wrote:
Quote
What do you guys pay for those frigging connections anyway?
I pay 365 SEK ( 43$, 40€, 27£ ) a month for my 2.4 mbit adsl connection. No connection fee.
With a modem I generally got stuck with the same prices, but then I only checked my e-mail with it, allmost no surfing at all.


I pay 362 DKK for 256/128 here in Denmark!
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: KennyR on February 12, 2003, 12:26:03 PM
Quote
Not really if the network is designed as it should be nothing slows down. And ADSL has the same problem too. You have your own connection to the DSLAM central but if the network from there to the ISP is full the speed will drop down too.


I did some research, and it doesn't need to be the central server that's busy. One channel is provided to one block of houses normally, and heavy use by some of those houses can slow down cable hugely for everyone else on the block. ADSL doesn't suffer this.

Probably in the US this is solved by adding more channels, but in other places whether communications are more monopolised it isn't...

Heres the source of my info (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/cable-modem3.htm)
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: amigamad on February 12, 2003, 01:03:55 PM
i have 128k ntl broadband cable modem they supply the modem and connection was free it cost less than my bt off peak dialup
128k ntl broadband £14.99

56k dial up off peak £15.99

Only thing is ntl are trying to limit you to one gig a day download only thing is i payed for unlimited and this is breach of my contract with them so they wont get paid if they try breaking my contract with them .

dont pay ntl site (http://www.dont-pay-ntl.co.uk/)
and more info here news item (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/29246.html) :-?

ant ntl protest (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/29288.html)
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Elektro on February 12, 2003, 01:05:34 PM
I see no proof of this supposed 'cable problems'. Since i changed my ISP from the monopolistic 'Telekom' (which btw. now aggresivily markets ADSL) to the cable company my cable flies again. No problems at all. The reason why ADSL is getting so popular is just because phone companies already own the phone network which has 10 times better distribution than the cable network. Monopoly all over the place.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: kd7ota on February 12, 2003, 01:10:06 PM
That is believable.

My friend on night achieved 40kbp/s and downloaded 200mb with no time. I dont know what happens for data to do that. He even showed me the file that was 200mb, and sure enough, he had it.  Maybe ISPs are greedy!  :-D
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: SilvrDrgn on February 12, 2003, 01:10:56 PM
@ KennyR,
Quote
But doesn't cable take a performance hit if lots of people in your neighbourhood are downloading at once?

Yes, it can happen, but it usually doesn't.  The cable providers are very good at keeping track of how many people are on the system.  When they reach the threshhold of their specifications, they add another channel.  It certainly holds true for me.  I live in a pretty populated neighborhood, but I've never had a problem with my cable modem being slow.

Quote
ADSL doesn't suffer this.

You should add onto the end of that "on its own channel" because, yes, ADSL can be affected by a similar type of slowdown.  If the network equipment that your DSL modem connects to at the CO is saturated, the slowdown will happen.  I did have this problem at my old apartment.  The CO only had one connectivity point for my neighborhood at the time with over 100 connections on it.  They had a publicly available network activity monitor which showed the box was always 95% busy during peak times.  That, of course, ended up with everyone on it going slow.

Also, regardless of the above, your data transmission speed will only go as fast as the weakest/slowest link in the chain.  If your on a 10 Mbit cable modem and you download from a server that's running on a 2400 bps modem (not likely, but possible), then you'll still only get 2400 bps speed.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: odin on February 12, 2003, 01:18:31 PM
I am connected with an @Home cable connection. Advertised as 1 to 2 MBit. I easily achieve 100KByte/sec downloads, so it's not far from the truth. Upstream is limited to ~15Kbyte/sec :-/,

We pay 45EUR/month for it (but we share the connect with 3 persons). No download/upload limits ('fair use policy', but I've downloaded in excess of 6 gig sometimes (excluding my roommates, so total even higher) and we haven't had any guys knocking on our door yet :-))).

Overall I'm quite satisfied with @Home.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: gnarly on February 12, 2003, 03:42:40 PM
Quote
whabang wrote:
I pay 365 SEK ( 43$, 40?, 27£ ) a month for my 2.4 mbit adsl connection.
You ******* ***** ********!!!! ;-)

I pay £25 per month for 512k cable. Bah...
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Aragorn on February 12, 2003, 04:17:35 PM
I pay 275 SEK a month for 10Mbit got a fiber connection to the house. :-P
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Tomas on February 12, 2003, 06:13:48 PM
I pay 795nkr "106Euro" a month for my poor 1120/384 kbit cable  :-x
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Tomas on February 12, 2003, 06:15:08 PM
i say it again.... you swedes are really spoiled.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: Tomas on February 12, 2003, 06:18:07 PM
Quote
And next year once I got a job I will get my 7.6Mbps ADSL line...... Counterstrike server on me!


Still.... Adsl has a max upload limit of around 760kbit or somewhere around there.

And latency shoot into the sky when you upload with it.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: YttriumOx on February 12, 2003, 06:32:29 PM
Quote
KennyR wrote on 2003/2/12 21:22:01
But doesn't cable take a performance hit if lots of people in your neighbourhood are downloading at once?

Yes, and I've also experienced it so I can say without doubt that it happens.  BUT it's really no big deal.  Some days, on sites I usually get around 1000KBps downloads I only get a consistant 800KBps downloads.  Other sites where I usually get 500KBps generally never slow down.
Compared to the likes of 100KBps on a 1Mbit link or 26KBps on your average ADSL, it's blindingly fast either way.

Regards,
Ben de Waal.


Quick note to ease discussion (not aimed at you Kenny):
K = Kilo (1024 or 1000)
M = Mega (1048576 or 1000000)
G = Giga (1073741824 or 1000000000)
B = Byte (usually 8 or 9 bits - generally 9 when talking about network speed)
b = bit (a binary digit, a 1 or 0)
bit = bit (a binary digit, a 1 or 0)

bps = bits per second (a common way to measure transfer speeds)
Bps = Bytes per second (a common way to measure transfer speeds)
cps = Characters per second (synonymous with Bps)

eg 10Mbps = (very approx) 1MBps
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: on February 12, 2003, 07:28:27 PM
"Face it, dialup uses a century old technology. "

This may be true for the phone network itself , but the way dailup works has changed alot over the years , originally it did work by sending bit by bit without compression. But now the data is compressed and patterned ( its called PSK IIRC , Phase shift something .. its been along time since learnt about it ;) ) where the carrier wave is not manipulated to represent a high or low bit but instead manipulated to represent groups of bits increasing the bandwidth many times over.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: artman on February 13, 2003, 02:59:29 AM
The only thing I can get up here in the wilds of Northern Michigan is dialup, and the phone lines are so old that the fastest connect speed I can achieve is 28800 max.  Would you believe that my A2000 connects at 28800 and my Compaq at 26400...go figure.  Must mean that the Amiga is the more efficient of the two.
Title: Re: Just made a download at 40kbps with dial up!!!
Post by: samdu on February 13, 2003, 06:50:11 AM
Quote
but the thing is you have to pay a fixed price with virtually every provider, and they limit your maximum transfers.


I'm not sure what choices you have for DSL, but here (Charleston, SC, USA) I get BellSouth aDSL for $45/month at 1.5 Mb/sec and no usage limits. I even have an FTP/Web/Mail server set up on my linux box.