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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Failure on September 16, 2004, 02:27:24 AM

Title: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 16, 2004, 02:27:24 AM
Catchy title, no?  :-)

Well I am still plugging away with AMIX.  I have been able to do some things with it now that I had not been able to do before, largely due to the positively ancient gcc compiler bundled with 2.03.  I kept trying compilers until I got...I think it was 2.4.5(?) to compile with AMIX gcc.  Then I worked my way up the chain until I got to 2.7.2.3 and could not get anything further to compile.  It was always a problem with "collect2".

With this I am having much better success compiling things.  I  have for example wget and apache, which I could not compile with AMIX's old gcc.  But frustratingly, other things I would really love to have...like gettext, perl, and lynx, failed at various stages.  Even amiwm -- which is kind of funny...

Basically the software either won't configure at all, or if it does configure, it compiles all the way through and fails to link.  perl for example configures fine, but unlike most of them only compiles part of the way before erroring out.  I think the core problem is that the C headers/libraries are so old.  Pretty much everything has warnings during compilation.  When I tried to use the C++ includes it was humorous, since the screen filled instantly with warnings about "this method is obsolete yadda yadda".  Suffice to say, I have not been able to get *anything* using C++ to compile.  Including "hello world".

I am not sure how much effort I will put into getting stubborn software to compile, given how dead AMIX is.  But I admit that I am still having fun playing with it!

The system has been pretty reliable, but it panics (for the uninitiated, this is like a flashing red box ;-)) occasionally when linking very large binaries (like gcc).  It is up 5 days at the moment, and has been compiling pretty much non-stop as well as running Apache.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Dalamar on September 16, 2004, 02:48:19 AM
I've been having similar results.  I have also hooked a friend  into looking at C code for the date command and such to try to fix the Y2k issues.  I have had the system up for 15 days and it's been very stable.  I'm having a blast with it,  but it is frustrating not being able to get PERL running for example.  Do you have the binaries for 2.7.2.3 packed up so I don't have to compile again?  
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Matt_H on September 16, 2004, 03:37:19 AM
Well, I appreciate the work you've been doing! :-)

I'm back at college now, and my AMIX A3000 is at home; I've only got my A4000T with me. Working with AMIX has reversed my opinions of *ix systems - it's far less daunting now, and I really find myself missing my AMIX box and Linux on my AmigaOne.

My A3000 is only the 16MHz model; I'm in the market for the 25MHz version. I also need some more hardware to make it really usable (2065, 2410). If I can get at least the 2065, I'll probably bring it into service as a full machine.

I think this is the most activity AMIX has seen in the past 5 years. ;-)
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: corsavert on September 16, 2004, 04:07:22 AM
Does NetBSD count? or Minix? Trying to make NetBSD go on my A500/030/882/10Mb/2Gb. Based on my minimal Linux exposure it's a tough crawl. Got Minix going (not bad but doesn't like the 030). Can't even get BSD to boot the installer yet. It will come. I just think it'll be kind of cool to run the same OS on my 15-year-old Ami and my new 2.2Ghz laptop.

Corsavert
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: DonnyEMU on September 16, 2004, 05:26:40 AM
Remember that by Unix standards Amiga Unix (Amix) is kinda dated. It's really System V release 4 of ATT Unix. It uses open look at a windows manager over X and you might want to compile and add a newer windows manager for it amongst other things..

Calling Linux and Amix the same OS is a bit misleading..
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 16, 2004, 02:59:59 PM
@Dalamar

Hey, I do have binaries of gcc 2.7.2.3 packaged up, and for now they can be found right on the 3000UX here:

http://bfe.homelinux.net/software/

I am looking at redoing the files library at amix.failsure.net so that AMIX machines using wget can fetch the files directly.  Before I had wget compiled I was dling the files on a Linux machine, and using old rcp to copy the files over, so this wasn't a problem.

@Matt_H

Learning to swim by drowning?  I had the same experience, installing Debian in 1997 (my "friend" suggested this as my first Linux distro as a joke).  Everything was easy after that.

I have had A2065 in an eBay favorites search for a couple months now, looking to pick up a spare.  In that time I have seen none come up for sale.  Same for A2410.  I think in terms of X I have settled on using it over the network, but I will still jump at an A2410 if it comes around.  Someone posted on the forums asking for help on one of those cards, and it was I could do to keep from posting "SELL THAT TO MEH!"

@corsavert
Is that a 50MHz 030?  I would be curious if it will boot AMIX at all.  If you are bored, please try the boot floppies :-)  I imagine it might boot but with no HD support.

and finally @DonnyEMU

Unfortunately AMIX uses X11R4.  It does not appear to support MIT shared memory (Xshm is the symbol, I think) and probably many other things.  So far I have not been able to get other window managers to compile.  Someone did a port of X11R5 some time ago but I cannot find it now :-/
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: corsavert on September 16, 2004, 03:11:38 PM
@failure

It's a CSA MegaMidgetRacer 030/36 (slightly overclocked 33). The chip is actually a 50 but the RAM on the board will only go 36. FPU @ 50 though. I'll give the boot flops a try but don't have a lot of hope unless Amix will support GVP HD II+ controller.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Matt_H on September 16, 2004, 05:33:50 PM
@ corsavert

That setup would probably work for AMIX with a C=590 controller on the expansion port.

There might be a patch for GVP controllers under AMIX on the Gateway CDs (AMIX parts of which I keep forgetting to upload!), but I seem to recall it being for version 2.1c, which is not widely available. Even then it might only work with A2000 GVP boards.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Xand on September 16, 2004, 05:44:05 PM
    I just acquired a very yellowed and very abused A3000UX. It was sitting in someone's cellar (along with a 500 that I rescued). Mice had built a nest in it and messed up the motherboard rather badly. There were no hard drives and the floppy drives look questionable. Oddly enough it has 3.1 ROMs,    DMAC 4, and Ramsey 7 (I forgot to check the Buster). I cleaned it last weekend and will be trying it out on this Saturday.
    If it still works, I just happen to have a 3070 and a two user AMIX setup that I'll be trying to install. Do you know if it will work with 3.1 or will I have to find some original ROMs?

@Failure
Thanks for the files...

     
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 16, 2004, 07:17:57 PM
@Xand

I believe someone has successfully installed AMIX on a 3.1 ROM'd system.  I personally stuck the old AMIX 1.1 install I had into a 3.1 machine and it booted just fine.

BTW, are you saying you have the AMIX install media on tape?  What release do you have?

Also, the install media on my site will not work for using the tape installation method.  You will want to check the mmhart site for boot floppies...the 2.03 floppies should(!) install 2.1 fine.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Xand on September 16, 2004, 08:08:38 PM
@Failure
Yes, I have the tape, the two boot floppies, the manuals, and the box. I'll check the release when I get home later.

I was grabbing the GCC stuff, not the install media.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 17, 2004, 09:09:01 PM
I found the site with X11R5 and some other stuff:

ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/amiga/amix/

Yay :-)  I am going to try this once I get my installation back up and running.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Dalamar on September 17, 2004, 10:22:58 PM
I'm curious to see what version you have on that tape.  If it's more recent than 2.03 I think you are my new friend.  :-)  

I have AMIX on a 3.1 system and it works perfect.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Xand on September 17, 2004, 10:47:38 PM
@Dalamar
I had a soccer game last night so I didn't get home until REALLY late. I'll check tonight or tomorrow and let you know.

I'm glad to hear that it runs on 3.1. I feel a dual boot system coming on...
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 17, 2004, 11:06:08 PM
If that is actually 2.1 release you have on tape, I believe I have the patch disk necessary to bring it up to 2.1c.  That should make it work with all the patches Matt_H has from the Gateway CDs.

Even if it's not 2.1, you at least have the opportunity to install with a functioning package management system -- something my hack does not allow for.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Dalamar on September 18, 2004, 06:19:51 AM
Hey Failure, if you have those files on the AMIX machine, how are they longer than 14 characters?  Is there some hack to display files longer than that limit?
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 18, 2004, 03:14:20 PM
Hmm, are you using the S5 filesystem?  UFS doesn't seem to have a small limit like that, but I remember S5 under 1.1 did.

*edit* Long filename example removed to not screw up forum layout.

I can work with filenames in excess of 160 chrs in length.

No problems here :-)
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Dalamar on September 19, 2004, 08:13:53 AM
Um, yes.  S5.  Oops.  Didn't know that one.  It's fixed now.  I'm running Berkeley and it works much much better.

Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Xand on September 19, 2004, 04:26:43 PM
The tape and the boot floppies say 2.1 and there is another disk that says 2.1 patches.

The floppy drives appear to be dead. I'll be trying to use the external one from my 1200. I'm also "borrowing" the 800 mb scsi hdd from my 1200 Towerhawk to test this.

The buster is rev 11. The jumpers on the MB are set for an accelerator. Someone put a lot of money into this thing, it's too bad it wound up sitting in a basement.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 19, 2004, 04:53:47 PM
2.1, that is very cool :-)  Hopefully your tape is still installable.  Due to the way the installer works, you probably won't find out until you are well into the process, when cpio will complain at you and probably bomb the script (or move on to the next archive, don't know for sure).

You might have the install docs, but if not the tape drive needs to be set to ID 4.

Good luck!
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Dalamar on September 19, 2004, 07:38:34 PM
2.1.  Yey!  I hope it works.  If it does make an image of that tape first thing.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Xand on September 20, 2004, 03:28:07 PM
@Failure
Thanks for the info on the id setting.

@Dalamar
I'm going to make a copy before I try to install it. Many years ago, when I first tried to install Amix, my tape drive ate the tape. Hopefully it won't happen again this time.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Dalamar on September 22, 2004, 12:06:15 AM
Most likely a wise precaution. :-)  A working 2.1 build would be great.   Maybe Failure could alter his install scripts to grab that source.   :-o
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Sparky on September 22, 2004, 12:26:54 AM
Quote

I'm going to make a copy before I try to install it. Many years ago, when I first tried to install Amix, my tape drive ate the tape. Hopefully it won't happen again this time.


May I suggest you run a cleaning tape through the tape drive first!  Get the crap cleaned out.

Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: JonoPike on September 22, 2004, 12:48:23 AM
What's all about this UNIX crap?
Do you have much software/games for this
platform then? I think it's really useless!
AmigaOS rulez!
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: LocalH on September 22, 2004, 12:51:06 AM
"useless"

I suppose you'd rather have seen it lost to time when all the old tapes and tape drives broke down?
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: JonoPike on September 22, 2004, 12:53:39 AM
@LocalH
So, Unix is holding it's s{bleep}t together with tape?
It's not the old "Duck Tape" again, is it?
 :roflmao:  :laughing:  :lol:
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Matt_H on September 22, 2004, 01:16:48 AM
@ boinghead

There's no need for profane language. If it's copious amounts of software you want, then I suggest looking at a Wintel PC.

@ Failure

I also noticed the lack of working package management with the sysadm utility. Any idea what the problem is? Maybe a master package list is missing? I recall seeing one in one of the mmhart tape images... Will redownload and investigate.



I miss my Amix 3000 :-(
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: JonoPike on September 22, 2004, 01:24:39 AM
Matt_H wrote:
Quote
If it's copious amounts of software you want, then I suggest looking at a Wintel PC.


Nah... thanks. I don't like any PC s{bleep}t!
AmigaOS has more than enough for my needs...
 :lol:
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Failure on September 22, 2004, 03:23:13 AM
Quote

bOiNgHeAd wrote:
What's all about this UNIX crap?
Do you have much software/games for this
platform then? I think it's really useless!
AmigaOS rulez!


Hmm.  Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ;-)  Think about what you are saying here.  I think the main interest in AMIX is preserving it so it doesn't go the way of 286 XENIX for example -- something that exists only as a memory.  In the Amiga world, AMIX is really quite unique and it would be a shame for it to be unusable forever.

And, yes, there is a large amount of high quality, free software available for UNIX.  The problem with AMIX is getting it to compile properly with the old libraries and software.

@Matt_H

It has been a little while since I looked at the install script, but in the default installation via tape you get choices.  The first file on the tape is a header listing all the packages and their order, since I commented all the package stuff out to get my method to work I didn't pay much attention to it but I imagine it just looks for the cpio EOF marker to distinguish them.  If you look in the / directory you will see two files that "don't belong" in a standard UNIX FHS, that's what was in the "header".  I went ahead and left them there.

Since the HD hack more or less just dumps the contents of the tape to disk, which is possible due to the fairly primitive concept of package management present in sysv4, whatever package databases are initialized...aren't.  It should be possible to change the script to use the package management, but it would be marginal benefit, since AMIX packages do not exist in the wild and the only thing you'd get was the opportunity to install stuff you didn't want initially, later.  I may still try it at some point just to see it myself.  My picky side wanted package management, but the impatient side just wanted AMIX installed!

@Dal

Unless the installer changed radically between 2.03 and 2.1, all that would be needed would be to create a cpio archive of the stuff on the 2.1 tape, and the existing script could handle it.  It would still be an HD dump though, so no package management.  It would be interesting to get something that could be dd'd to tape to do the install the proper way though.
Title: Re: The lonely world of Amiga UNIX
Post by: Dalamar on September 22, 2004, 06:33:37 AM
@Failure

A Hard Disk dump is fine with me.  The kitchen sink install is better than no install at all.  :-)