Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Desler on February 08, 2003, 07:19:40 PM

Title: Opera on amiga
Post by: Desler on February 08, 2003, 07:19:40 PM
After having downloaded the newest version of opera (an excellent web browser), I tried to browse around their forum. Since Opera supports many various OS, I was interested in whether an Amiga version could be expectable. I followed this (http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10271) link and it turned out that "There are no plans for an Amiga version. "
After a couple more questions however it was said that IF Opera should be ported to the amiga it would require a pretty solid user base.
Its my opinion that if we ever want anything ported to the amiga then we have get ourself heard. So whether youre on the Aos4, morphos, amithlon, winuae, classic or whatever and if you want Opera ported to your machine, please let yourself be heard here (http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10271)
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Kronos on February 08, 2003, 07:38:27 PM
"solid user base" = 50000 people who use an OS on a daily basis.

Even the most optimistic wouldn't put the size of the
"community" at over 10000,
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: KennyR on February 08, 2003, 07:43:34 PM
Kronos, QNX has a userbase smaller than that, and there is a port of Opera for it.

I think Opera on the Amiga has a chance. It's not much of a chance, but it's better than none.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Kronos on February 08, 2003, 07:54:43 PM
@KennyR

Yes, and now gues who paid for that port ....

Don't see anyone in this market splashing out that amount of $

Both OSes allready have a "house"-browser, partly finaced
by (future) OS-sales.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Calen on February 08, 2003, 07:55:40 PM
To have it ported to the official OS and other takes on it would make more sence, bigger user base.  it's comments by one guy in particular on the Opera forums is just plain FUD and will confuse the Opera service department even more.
Quote
Opera would be good on the Amiga but as the Amiga user base is so small it is not worth porting software to a few hundred people,
However porting Opera to a excellent operating system called MorphOS would guarantee you high number of users

Cmon, lets get real guys! :roll:

It's time likes this where we should all come together, having this fine browser would benefit us all.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Desler on February 08, 2003, 07:58:59 PM
Eventhough we might not make a big impression its better than sitting idle by
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Kronos on February 08, 2003, 08:06:56 PM
@Desler

I strongly disagree !!

A lot of serious SW-companies will just close their ears after
getting "Amiga is back port now" posts from the zealot for the
last 10 years .....

Better wait until the systems are out and one can give a
realistic of actual users instead of hope&hype.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Desler on February 08, 2003, 09:31:23 PM
@Kronos
I can see your point. Under different circumstances it would be mine as well. But: In order to get people interested in the amiga platform there must atleast be a good dev tool, a good office package and a good web browser for the platform. Right now the amiga only got a fairly good dev tool (gcc).
I know that aos4 isnt out yet, but still there is morphos, amithlon, uae and classic and with a little luck aos should get released soon  :-)
So my point is: If this is not near to be the perfect time to harras SW-companies for some of the most basic and critical elements of an OS I dont know when is
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Kronos on February 08, 2003, 09:41:48 PM
@Desler

>dev-tool  
... mmmmmrrffffuurrr  ;-)

>Office

Papyrus.

Atm you only got two kinds of SW companies:
a) Those who know the market but are still doing stuff.

b) Those you think the market is too small.

New SW will only come from the 1st group for the time being, and
we have to support those until the user-base is big enough for
the 2nd group to rethink.

Every sensible buisness man (or woman) would in no way let his
descions be influenced by the furious few.

"Mail-bombing" (and this is what it feels like for the
companies) can only be counterproductive.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: asian1 on February 09, 2003, 03:44:59 PM
Hello
I had contacted Opera in Norway about porting the latest version of Opera browser to BeOS and AmigaOS / DE. Their response:

1. We had ported Opera 3.62, because Be Inc order and pay for the commercial software.
2. We don't port to BeOS, because Be is already bought by Palm and Palm refused to give financial support for further development of Opera browser for BeOS.
3. In theory, if someone pay for the porting it is possible to port Operat to any OS.

Who will pay Opera (Norway) for porting the browser to AmigaOS / DE?
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: downix on February 09, 2003, 04:09:56 PM
Nice idea, a bit impractical at the time tho.  Opera is in the business to make money.  Making a gratis port to AmigaOS is out of the question.  Most of the platforms Opera is on now is because the founding company paid for the port.  Only Windows, Linux and Macintosh were done gratis, because their markets are large enough that Opera can guarantee enough income to cover the cost of porting.

Then there's the limitations of the operating system itself.  Opera needs key technologies before it will work.  AmigaOS, sorry to say, doesn't have it.  It doesn't have memory protection, nor even a Java engine.  (don't give me the "AOS4 has MP" or anything like that, it's not here yet)

Yes, I've looked into this as well, and it's on the table.  if Hyperion's willing to pay, and can guarantee 500k units shipped, Opera will port it to AOS4.  Same with Genesi.  Still cost them money out of pocket tho.  
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: hagar on February 09, 2003, 04:22:03 PM
When Opera started "project magic" (project to port opera to other operating systems) back in 98/99 amiga was actually one of the target platforms.
If I rembeber correctly the port was dropped because they
didn't have the money to do the port or a team that could do the programming.

Check out Operas old website with the internet archive (www.archive.org) for more information

Project Magic (December 1998) (http://web.archive.org/web/19990422210401/www.opera.no/alt_os.html)


Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Dagon on February 09, 2003, 04:23:38 PM
I don`t think that OS/2 has a larger "solid user base" than ours. But anyway, lets wait till we have the products and then we can discuss it...
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: hagar on February 09, 2003, 04:27:12 PM
Quote

@kronos

"Mail-bombing" (and this is what it feels like for the
companies) can only be counterproductive.


I agree.

Opera has been in contact with the amiga community before (se my first posting in this thread).
It wasn't possible to do a port back in 98/99 and I do not belive that the situation has changed.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: gary_c on February 09, 2003, 04:33:13 PM
Quote
Kronos, QNX has a userbase smaller than that, and there is a port of Opera for it.
I think Opera on the Amiga has a chance. It's not much of a chance, but it's better than none.

QSSL itself paid for the QNX port, and it was done to make Opera available for QNX embedded applications. The QNX desktop is essentially a development platform for embedded systems; it might well be smaller than the Amiga userbase, but Opera wasn't ported for desktop users (developers), but for small-device users whose mobile devices, etc.  run QNX embedded. I'm sure if Hyperion or Amiga, Inc. would like to Pay Opera Software for an Amiga port, then one would be done.

-- gary_c
Title: Re: Opera == expensive
Post by: DamienMcKenna on February 09, 2003, 04:41:22 PM
Opera is expensive.  They have been burned several times by companies who pulled out and didn't pay up for what was owed (sound familiar?).  Their revenue from their desktop browsers (Opera for Windows, linux, etc) is less than a third of their total revenue, despite it being used by hundreds of thousands to millions of people around the world.  They are a privately owned company and aren't in a position to do charity work, which is what a port would be right now.  If a platform could guarantee a large (hundreds of thousands) number of sales and someone was willing to pay up-front for the porting costs, they might do it.  But it would be an expensive deal.
Title: Re: Opera == expensive
Post by: Paul_Gadd on February 09, 2003, 05:07:32 PM
Amiga inc should pay the Opera guys to do a port.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: on February 09, 2003, 05:07:44 PM
I think the only decent chance of amiga getting a decent browser would be to get people within the community to port mozilla over which is open source... maybe help this guy out http://mozamiga.mozdev.org/

I wouldnt expect much help from amiga inc tho.. the way ibrowse is included with the OS smells the same way IE is included with windows. ;-)
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Kronos on February 09, 2003, 05:17:39 PM
@ZINE

Forget that site.
It has been completly inactive for allmost 3 years.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Herewegoagain on February 09, 2003, 05:28:26 PM
Quote
I think the only decent chance of amiga getting a decent browser would be to get people within the community to port mozilla over which is open source...


Or get Microsoft to port IE.  :)  Hey, I'd take it if it were included.  And you would know your browser was compatable with every site out there.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: on February 09, 2003, 05:35:49 PM
Opera wont ever come to Amiga... user base is to small... not saying it will come to MorphOS...but if MorphOS is going to run on 'generic' hardware then it will make more sense...
but first OS4 needs to excist and get running on the A1 and be shipped first  so it's pointless to argue.

I do think that guy made sense though... MorphOS is lightyears ahead of 68K AmigaOS...and 68k  AOS is the only AOS that's out right now... I personally wouldnt want to even touch opera bieng emulated in 68K...
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: amigamad on February 09, 2003, 05:42:41 PM
amiga inc should get there act together and get a port  they give an ad supported version for free for windows, and qnx is not that big.most people probaly just use a keygen on opera to register it anyway least  .
Title: Re: Opera == expensive
Post by: T_Bone on February 09, 2003, 05:44:43 PM
Quote

Paul_Gadd wrote:
Amiga inc should pay the Opera guys to do a port.


Bwahahaha, with what? their good looks? :)

Why would Amiga Inc. benefit from this? They only license the name to Hyperion, who actually make and sell AmigaOS.

The licensing fees that Amiga recieve will likely be less than the per-user cost of a ported browser anyway.
Title: Re: Opera == expensive
Post by: T_Bone on February 09, 2003, 05:47:29 PM
Probably the only way Opera would agree to a port, is if a company offered to port it for them for free, much in the way of the business model of Loki (rip).

Title: Re: Opera == expensive
Post by: Paul_Gadd on February 09, 2003, 05:51:26 PM
Quote
Why would Amiga Inc. benefit from this?


They would not (and i hope they would not)  but with the money from the t-shirt and coupon scams that can be put to good use,

The Amiga is supposed to be a multimedia system but has not got a decent webbrowser, priceless.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: downix on February 09, 2003, 05:58:40 PM
Quote
think the only decent chance of amiga getting a decent browser would be to get people within the community to port mozilla over which is open source... maybe help this guy out http://mozamiga.mozdev.org/


Pity it's for AmigaDE, and thereby incompatable with AmigaOS.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: amigamad on February 09, 2003, 06:25:48 PM
but mozzila is crap i dont want that rubbish even ie is better.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: T_Bone on February 09, 2003, 06:30:52 PM
As long as there's an Xserver available, I'll just run Opera/Mozilla/whatever in an Xwindow on the Amiga served from my router.

What AmigaOS needs is a killer app, a reason for existing. Non Amigans won't buy an AmigaOne, we need a reason for them to need an Amiga, and it's not a browser.

Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: AmiDelf on February 09, 2003, 06:47:33 PM
Now lets us forget Opera.. support Ibrowse.. its going strong, soon v3.0 will be out with Flash, CSS, JAVA and so on...

It would actually be nice to see Opera for Amiga, but Ibrowse is kinda the Opera for Amiga or even better visually.

Buy Ibrowse and support Amiga...! On the other hand.. if Opera was ever ported to Amiga, the competition between Opera and Ibrowse would affect in good and faster upgrades I think...

For now,.. for me.. Ibrowse rulez!

AmiDelf
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: gary_c on February 10, 2003, 07:29:33 AM
Quote
but mozzila is crap i dont want that rubbish even ie is better.

Heh, crap? What do you mean, exactly? And beggers can be choosers, right? Anyway, I'm using Phoenix (browser-only Mozilla) now and it's fine. No problems with it whatsoever.

-- gary_c
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: teo on February 10, 2003, 09:16:59 AM
Ive been doing a bit of work over at www.amigamonkey.com (http://www.amigamonkey.com), and one of the functionality items im thinking about is a software request system, where basically users can show there support in a structured way for applications/games/whatever to get written/ported to Amiga OS/Workbench.

The idea is that when its determined that we have enough support for a particular product, the site administrators can approach the companies in question with a more professional report including statistics and forward looking statements etc etc.

Ive been looking at a focus for amigamonkey, and dont want to compete with the a.org forums (although ours wont be ready for about two weeks, they will kick arse), so let me know if you think the software request system is a good idea.

One word of warning, no companies will be approached by us until the AmigaOS is at a respectable stage where development using it is well structured and the OS is seen to be worthwhile(which im sure it will be, but not just yet)
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: Herewegoagain on February 10, 2003, 12:12:50 PM
Quote
Now lets us forget Opera.. support Ibrowse.. its going strong, soon v3.0 will be out with Flash, CSS, JAVA and so on...



Well, that sounds like what would be expected for the release of OS4.  Not the current 2.3 version.  It currently is too limited to be looked upon seriously by average users.  If it supports CSS, Java and Flash, then I would use it without hesitation.  I've always liked Ibrowse better...but it still needs alot of things added to be a serious contender.  Let's hope v3.0 is the one.
Title: Re: Opera on amiga
Post by: catohagen on February 10, 2003, 12:39:50 PM
exellent idea..... include requests for pci drivers :)