Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / General => Topic started by: whabang on September 07, 2004, 10:43:01 AM
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:pissed:
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When I die, post mortem will state
death caused by lack of appropriate medical care
or death caused by an car-accident, car accident caused by utterly bad road condition..
You don't live on your own, keep that in mind.
You live in an utterly cozy wealthy country, and you have little to worry about, so STOP MOANING and get over it you selfish prick :pissed:
Your selfishness can cause lots of trouble.
(Like, one dies of a rare disease, and no one wanted to pay for research)
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You seem to be in an especially optimistic state of mind today... :-P
I don't live on my own, quite the contrary. Together with nine million other people, I live in a country where I pay more to the state than I do to the company , whoose goods I'm buying. In general, my employer has to pay 14000:- if I'm to buy something that cost 5000:-. Most of it is thrown like pearls before the pigs. We pay 40 billion every year, for an army that is incapable of defending the country. We pay billions and millions, that is just wasted in beureaucracy.
I don't demand that I should be relieved of the duty of paying taxes, I demand that those money come to a proper use. If they're not put into proper use, then there is no point of paying it is there.
There are plenty of charities that could use the money better.
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whabang wrote:
:pissed:
Bah, you don't know anything about taxes :lol:
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
When I die, post mortem will state
death caused by lack of appropriate medical care
or death caused by an car-accident, car accident caused by utterly bad road condition..
You don't live on your own, keep that in mind.
You live in an utterly cozy wealthy country, and you have little to worry about, so STOP MOANING and get over it you selfish prick :pissed:
Your selfishness can cause lots of trouble.
(Like, one dies of a rare disease, and no one wanted to pay for research)
Right, first off name calling is a breach of the TOS, so knock it off, secondly a countries wealth means bugger all, people may still be poor, even in the most afluent countries around. Britain in the 80's became fabulously wealthy, at the expense of whole communities in the north, many of whome have never recovered. Indeed in the north there are whole cities that still have not recovered from the 80s, yet Britain today is "richer" then its ever been... Just think about that for a while.
As a person who in this country has spent his life working and living on the breadline, I can assure you that the above statement holds very true for me.
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the_leander wrote:
Right, first off name calling is a breach of the TOS, so knock it off, secondly a countries wealth means bugger all, people may still be poor, even in the most afluent countries around.
I have to agree with leander about the name calling thing, although once or twice I've had to bite my tongue so to speak... Thankfully the provocative poster concerned isn't likely to return here.
Anyway, back O/T.
Leander is right, it's not living in a prosperous country that's a problem. The distribution of wealth is nowhere near uniform and you only have to take a cursory glance at society to see that. Our priorities are wrong, and I think Whabang feels similar to me; that our taxes aren't spent wisely.
For example, the UK government offices moved a couple of years back at the taxpayer's expense. Included in this was the provision of office furniture paid for by all of us, which in one case amounted to £70K for an "antique office desk". And that's only the tip of the iceberg.
£32 - £36 billion of taxpayers money here is spent on the non-elected committees that decide policy and run the country. They aren't accountable to the public and are largely made up of cronies of those in power, a typical "jobs for the boys" mentality that wastes billions which could be spent on transport, the National Health Service, education and of course, grants for good causes.
If I had my way, we'd disband the QUANGOs (QUasi Autonomous Non-elected GOvernment body), open an account with Ikea for our official office furnishings and put the money saved into balancing the books, the NHS, transport and lower taxation.
So long as we continue to waste public money in this fashion I remain contemptouous of those in power.
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You live in an utterly cozy wealthy country, and you have little to worry about, so STOP MOANING and get over it you selfish prick
Your selfishness can cause lots of trouble.
Ummm...kinda harsh don't you think??? Not to mention childish, grow up and act your age instead of your shoe size. I too pay an enormous amount in Tax each year and believe me it sucks, especially when you see how poorly the government uses it. Sadly most of our tax dollars go towards social security to pay the way for self centered good for nothing deadheads who can't be fudged getting off their lazy ass to go and get a job. As far as I'm concerned its a tax payers right to moan about it, cause in the end, its their money the government is using. So...stick that in your pipe and smoke it :furious:
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@the_leander
I think Whabang understands how I meant this..
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adz wrote:
As far as I'm concerned its a tax payers right to moan about it, cause in the end, its their money the government is using.
oh oh your RIGHTS! Your RIGHTS!
ppl working for hospitals etc. work their asses of and you just wanna pay em less and less because it's your right.
that's how tax cuts are done.
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
@the_leander
I think Whabang understands how I meant this..
@Speel
Whabang certainly didn't seem to take it badly....
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that's cause I like Whabang
(a good relation has it's fights and quarrels ;-))
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whabang wrote:
You seem to be in an especially optimistic state of mind today... :-P
I don't live on my own, quite the contrary. Together with nine million other people, I live in a country where I pay more to the state than I do to the company , whoose goods I'm buying. In general, my employer has to pay 14000:- if I'm to buy something that cost 5000:-. Most of it is thrown like pearls before the pigs. We pay 40 billion every year, for an army that is incapable of defending the country. We pay billions and millions, that is just wasted in beureaucracy.
I don't demand that I should be relieved of the duty of paying taxes, I demand that those money come to a proper use. If they're not put into proper use, then there is no point of paying it is there.
There are plenty of charities that could use the money better.
now THESE arguments should be in this thread initially. And I agree with 'em.
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
that's cause I like Whabang
(a good relation has it's fights and quarrels ;-))
Hehe! I was just about to say that we sound like an old married couple! :-P
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oh oh your RIGHTS! Your RIGHTS!
ppl working for hospitals etc. work their asses of and you just wanna pay em less because it's your right.
that's how tax cuts are done.
Ummm...where did I mention anything about not wanting pay rises for people working for hospitals?? Or any other government department?? Quite frankly nurses, teachers, civil servants andybody who works for the government, bar the politicians get shit wages and quite frankly, they are the ones who deserve a pay rise more than anybody else, sadly the government in this country doesn't seem to feel that way. Paramedics for example, a person who by all means is almost a doctor gets paid as much as your local supermarkets duty manager, circa 35 - 40K, yet the government seems to think they don't deserve a penny more. Instead they would rather spend money on crap, such as aboriginal art, Federation Square and infastructure for the Commonwealth games. Thats why I get pissed off about paying taxes, cause the money goes to such useless crap. Oh, and did I mention those who refuse to actively seek employmeny???
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
adz wrote:
As far as I'm concerned its a tax payers right to moan about it, cause in the end, its their money the government is using.
oh oh your RIGHTS! Your RIGHTS!
ppl working for hospitals etc. work their asses of and you just wanna pay em less and less because it's your right.
that's how tax cuts are done.
The ground level civil servants, such as doctors, nurses etc are not the things that get people in this country so annoyed, what annoys people is that for every nurse in the NHS, there are TWO pen pushers there two, the sort of system that requires more people dealing with paperwork rather then front line services (Medicine, Firefighting, Police) is utterly reprehensible, the triangle is supposed to get smaller the further you go up it, it isn't supposed to be stood on its point!
Not one person here would advocate that these front line personel are being payed anywhere near enough, but I suspect every one of them would say that there are too many managers and such creating such a tidal wave of paperwork as to make the system utterly ineficient! ( Would also add to this that police and nurse's I've spoken to largely agree with this).
as for quangos, I am in agreement that they need getting shot of, as they do nothing except make a bad situation worse in most cases. Government should be large on the front line, tapering up to the point of power - the cabinet. Government should have the bulk of its power at a local level, not all stuffed in whitehall.
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the_leander wrote:
what annoys people is that for every nurse in the NHS, there are TWO pen pushers there two, the sort of system that requires more people dealing with paperwork rather then front line services (Medicine, Firefighting, Police) is utterly reprehensible, the triangle is supposed to get smaller the further you go up it, it isn't supposed to be stood on its point!
OK, that's a popular idea, but is it actually the truth?
I know, I get a large amount of paperwork to be filled in, but how much of it is really necessary? Do I get more paperwork so they can do with less bureaucracy? How much paperwork is actually needed, also to prevent fraud as good as possible?
Maybe we just live in too big countries :-)
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The hospitals are badly run,throwing money and bodys at the NHS is not working nurses are coming from india,philipines,poland,finland,australia and god knows where maybe like the railways if they invested in training and proper management and working practices they could reduce a lot of the cost.
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It is so unfortunately, what happens is that for any given department, there is the manager on the ground, plus the heads of department, various health chiefs not attached to the hospital, whitehall propper and the health secratary him or herself issuing directives completely seperate from one another. So you got maybe... 8 or 9 managers all giving out extra paperwork (often repeating other sections recomendations) all adding up. So to deal with this, the NHS has to have that many pen pushers in the background just to deal with the system... Even the government in PMQ's (Prime ministers Questions) has had to acknoledge it (although they tried like buggery not to).
The railways is the one place that I can honestly say that a quango has sorted it all out, yes there are still delays, but not nearly as bad as it was. There are actually more trains on the rails, the costs of operating on the railways has been reduced.
Is it still a mess? Well yes it is, but, its a hell of a lot less messy then it once was, and its still getting better. Primarily because of the training and recruiting of managers that actually know what they're doing as aposed to the old boys club where it isn't what you know, just who you know (as it is in the NHS and many other areas of public service).
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Speel man, calm down a bit. Socialism is a just and worthwhile system, but it does tend to create beurocracies when just too much taxpayer's money is pumped into it. Getting people to pay for a fair society is one thing, getting them to pay for a bloated, corrupt government is another. Taxes should be limited.
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We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816
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cecilia wrote:
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816
I like that one. This is one ball I think the conservatives haven't been carrying well. I wish I could be alive to see the day that this nation had no debt and could actually issue a tax cut on the basis of "We have more than we need, and have no use for this surplus."
Another large problem this country has is personal debt. We owe too much, and it's being sold to us renamed as something that sounds deceptively positive, "credit."
It's the same beast.
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T_Bone wrote:
Another large problem this country has is personal debt. We owe too much, and it's being sold to us renamed as something that sounds deceptively positive, "credit."
It's the same beast.
Britain is in much the same posision with regards personal debt. Doesn't help that in the past decade the cost of a 3 bedroom house in this country has more then tripled in real terms (folks morgaged their house for £30,000 about ten years or so ago, today it has been valued *very* conservatively at around £100,000, with a more honest value putting it closer to £120,000... Found this out as a result of my folks divorce this year heh.
In brighter news, I'm back after a good cool off period heh.
Anyone miss me?
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Of course! :-)
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T_Bone wrote:
cecilia wrote:
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816
I like that one. This is one ball I think the conservatives haven't been carrying well. I wish I could be alive to see the day that this nation had no debt and could actually issue a tax cut on the basis of "We have more than we need, and have no use for this surplus."
Another large problem this country has is personal debt. We owe too much, and it's being sold to us renamed as something that sounds deceptively positive, "credit."
It's the same beast.
Indeed. I saw a very simple, yet effective way of avoiding falling into this trap. Everytime you see the word 'credit' in this context, substitute it for 'debt'.
Thus you get:
Interest free debt
Debt card
Instant debt available
Attractive debt terms
Debt rating
Debt could be just a phone call away....
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Cyberus wrote:
Thus you get:
Instant debt available
Debt could be just a phone call away....
That doesn´t sound like a good deal. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I don´t understand creditcard users, why isn´t a debitcard enough? With a debitcard the worst that can happen is that you have to live on pasta an ketchup for the rest of the month.
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OI! Stop scaring me! I thought this was a new thread until I saw KennyR's post and though 'huh?'. You evil threadnecromongers! :-P.
Anyway, I own a creditcard for internet and international purchases. The 'credit' part is a drawback as far as I'm concerned.