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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: SKAN on September 06, 2004, 12:58:37 PM
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I was wondering who the hell is the owner of Classic Amiga hardware IP. Is it Gateway still?
Sorry guys, still dreaming of a C=1-like classic Amiga mobo...
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Good morning,
The subject of "who bought what" versus simply licensing the trademarks from Gateway has always been of dubious question. I would tend to guess that only Bill McEwen and Gateway's legal department really know the truth. There are essentially two ways of looking at it though;
1) If Amiga Inc "bought" the trademarks to patents and everything Amiga, then they own it.
2) If Amiga Inc "licensed" the trademarks and/or patents from Gateway (which is more of the direction in which I'm leaning based on comments by McEwen to the UGN at the last Saint Louis Amiga show), then you can absolutely bet that it was done in an exclusive manner so that only Amiga Inc has the right to use them.
Wayne
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SKAN wrote:
I was wondering who the hell is the owner of Classic Amiga hardware IP. Is it Gateway still?
Sorry guys, still dreaming of a C=1-like classic Amiga mobo...
As far as anyone is aware, all the Amiga patents have now expired. Gateway are the owners.
All that is left now are the Amiga trademarks... of which I think only the "Amiga" name in and it's use in relation computer equipment (maybe even just software now) is still maintained, one would presume by KMOS.
If you want a C=1 like Classic amiga there is nothing stopping, there never has been. You would not need to use the original patents to program up a couple of FPGA's to mimic the functions of the Amiga chipset. Though to do so would be pointless, complex and expensive... Running UAE on a cheap PC would be far more senible :-)
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It is a matter of public record that Gateway retained ownership of the patents with Amiga Inc. only having a royalty free license to use them within the framework of AmigaOS.
It is also incorrect to claim that all of these patents have already expired. Patent protection lasts for 20 years and some of the patents date back to 1987 meaning that some will only expire in 2007, not before.
Furthermore, Amiga Inc. holds several US and EC Amiga trademarks.
This too is a matter of public record.
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Thanks for the reply Ben.
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It is also incorrect to claim that all of these patents have already expired. Patent protection lasts for 20 years and some of the patents date back to 1987 meaning that some will only expire in 2007, not before
I can't find any submitted after 1983 :-?
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HyperionMP wrote:
This too is a matter of public record.
Then could you please post a link to this public information? :-D :-D :-D :-D
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I believe he would be talking about the later Commodore inventions, such as AAA and the graphics subsystem -- the name escapes me -- unveiled in the 4000/1200. These did not exist in 1983, and 87/88 would be about the right timeframe. I would have even said maybe 89/90 or so, but will bow to Ben on this issue since he's probably much more knowledgeable on the subject than I am.
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Wayne wrote:
I believe he would be talking about the later Commodore inventions, such as AAA and the graphics subsystem -- the name escapes me -- unveiled in the 4000/1200. These did not exist in 1983, and 87/88 would be about the right timeframe. I would have even said maybe 89/90 or so, but will bow to Ben on this issue since he's probably much more knowledgeable on the subject than I am.
Hmmm, but the AGA chipset was nothing more than an enhancement of the OCS, nothing in there was new (or was it :-D) certainly nothing patentable.
Regardless, the later patents would be valueless compared with the original DMA, Graphics Processor and Right Mouse Click etc, patents that were revolutionary in 1983 when they were submitted.
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@bloodline
If you want a C=1 like Classic amiga there is nothing stopping, there never has been. You would not need to use the original patents to program up a couple of FPGA's to mimic the functions of the Amiga chipset. Though to do so would be pointless, complex and expensive... Running UAE on a cheap PC would be far more senible :-)
It seems that is not possible to replicate an Amiga on FPGA. Someone else tried without success...
What I mean is a super low-cost Amiga compatible: with today's technology you can have an "Amiga On A Chip"! Do you remember the SAM Coupe'? Same thing, but with Amiga compatibility instead of Spectrum! :)
UAE is not the way, sorry. Not only it lacks the feeling ;), but even REAL compatibility. Anyway until WinUAE 2.0 ;)
And you cannot have a *decent* PC to run a *decent* UAE on it for few bucks...
This thought came in mind because my Amiga is getting older and I don't wanna buy another expensive PC/Mac/whatever just to run an emulator on it.
All I ask for is a demo-machine and WHDload.
Simply. :-D
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The patent on the datatypes in the OS would be later than 1983. (Yes, I'm pretty sure they are patented.)
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SKAN wrote:
@bloodline
If you want a C=1 like Classic amiga there is nothing stopping, there never has been. You would not need to use the original patents to program up a couple of FPGA's to mimic the functions of the Amiga chipset. Though to do so would be pointless, complex and expensive... Running UAE on a cheap PC would be far more senible :-)
It seems that is not possible to replicate an Amiga on FPGA. Someone else tried without success...
What I mean is a super low-cost Amiga compatible: with today's technology you can have an "Amiga On A Chip"! Do you remember the SAM Coupe'? Same thing, but with Amiga compatibility instead of Spectrum! :)
UAE is not the way, sorry. Not only it lacks the feeling ;), but even REAL compatibility. Anyway until WinUAE 2.0 ;)
And you cannot have a *decent* PC to run a *decent* UAE on it for few bucks...
This thought came in mind because my Amiga is getting older and I don't wanna buy another expensive PC/Mac/whatever just to run an emulator on it.
All I ask for is a demo-machine and WHDload.
Simply. :-D
Before you say any more, get yourself a £250 HP iPAQ and run UAE on it... flying across the atlantic with over a hundred Amiga games in my hand was a joy! The 8 hours went in a flash.
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Before you say any more, get yourself a £250 HP iPAQ and run UAE on it... flighing across the atlantic with over a hundred Amiga games in my hand was a joy! The 8 hours went in a flash.
So I guess PocketUAE is stable and cool enough? I should try a Dell Axim... ;)
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SKAN wrote:
Before you say any more, get yourself a £250 HP iPAQ and run UAE on it... flighing across the atlantic with over a hundred Amiga games in my hand was a joy! The 8 hours went in a flash.
So I guess PocketUAE is stable and cool enough? I should try a Dell Axim... ;)
I was using the 1st release, so I had 1 frame frame skip on, and I switched off the sound, but I was addicted to Megalomania and Lemmings :-)
Luckly I has spare batteries with me :-D
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There must be some... I looked into C= patents some years ago and there was all kind of weird stuff... I recall some of them were patented in 1985 or so. Mostly (now useless) HW related stuff but some patents regarding the Intuition too.
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@SKAN
And when did that someone try it ?
I mean roll back a few years and the same could have been said bout the C64, but the C=1 "exists" for roughly 3 years, and is much more powerfull than a C64.
So yes it is (or soon will be) possible to recreate OCS/AA with some sort of programmable chips.
I just don't see who could do it.....
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@kronos
Mik Tinker... ;)
...but I guess Xilinx FPGAs are far better now...
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I did a search at the US Pattent Office website and found 17 pattents registered to Commodore Business Machines. I grabbed one of those and it was submitted in 1988
United States Patent 5,088,035
Gardei , et al. February 11, 1992
System for accelerating execution of program instructions by a microprocessor
I didn't see any patents for datatypes though.
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I also found some pattents for Commodore-Amiga Inc files by RJ Mical.
I'm not sure Apple would like this Patent:
United States Patent 4,772,882
Mical September 20, 1988
Cursor controller user interface system
Abstract
Menu item selection is performed in a personal computer system through the use of a mouse device which has means to allow the user to call up onto the display a header block which performs the function of the menu bar and to erase the header block from the screen when menu operations are not required. Multiple menu items can be selected during the same menu session by using a pair of mouse buttons to generate a sequence of selection commands which are utilized by unique system software to accumulate plural item selections without terminating the menu operation.
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Chas916 wrote:
I'm not sure Apple would like this Patent:
Why not?
The Mac has only one mouse button, and as the extract from the patent states, it requires two mouse buttons.
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So in other terms, one would need a "stereo" mouse? :lol:
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The Mac has only one mouse button,
Because the patent for the two-button mouse was an amiga-patent. IIRC, this was the real reason why GW bought Amiga.
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Seems an expensive way of obtaining a GUI which is / was superceded in its implementation, surely they could simply have bought the patent at a fire sale or modified their implementation sufficiently to circumvent the patent regulations (as most other companies do)?