Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Cyberus on August 27, 2004, 03:08:55 PM
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What do you say we start up our own vigilante group to go and beat the living crap out of people who scam people out of their money?
Each country could have its own crack team of nutters who go around indiscriminately administering beatings to those who rip off fellow members of the community.
Bernd Binder
That tosser here in UK who ripped off Dragster and x56h34
Maxxdoo
Karmanss
and maybe even DCE?
:-D
Disclaimer: I'm not being wholly serious
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Hmmmmmm, whilst your idea might be in jest, I think one could seriously do something with this idea. Not a knucklesgroup but more like a pressuregroup or something. I.e. have a few people in each country who are willing to write a letter, give possible scammers a call and perhaps even pay them a visit and politely ask what the deal is with non arriving items.
(The main idea being that it might make more impact when someone nearer the perpetrator contacts him/her).
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YaY!
Im in :-)
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Maybe we could create a website and ask Wayne to create a link to it, on A.org, in the information section?
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Well the problem it could easily be seen as slander and I don't think blacklists are generally considered a Good Thing by authorities.
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That would be great to have a webpage or a link of fraud/scammers aka LOSERS that steal other peoples money. Put their real name, address,contact info on there and watch 'em squirm. Maybe we should list Amiga Inc for that $50 deal.. LOLOL j/k
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nice idea indeed.
I think the headquarters, should be placed in Germany (sorry but it seems so)
Ciao
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Well, the webpage would not need to slander, but simply list the name and location (no address) of the person which scammed someone, and list the details of the scam and that's it. It may help future buyers to not get scammed.
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I'm in!
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Perhaps we could use my avatar as the logo...hehe
edit: or how about this mean looking sonofagun:
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher.sheffield/facesofamigaorg/images/KennyR.jpg)
"His ear was sliced off with a broken whisky glass in a bar-room brawl in Glasgow when he was younger, since then he has wandered the earth, venting his wrath on all who stand in his way."
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Hi x56h34
i agree :-) it could be the correct way.
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I can even provide the webspace for it.
How should we call the page?
AmiTradeCenter? :-) Hehe, just kidding. Something else.
I think that not only we should list bad traders in it, but also good ones too. Known members of the community which have been verified as genuine and to be trusted.
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I have a few good members to add, EzdineG being one of the good ones and a few more through ebay.
Bad: Maxxdoo
Maybe a PHP site to where you can keep a database of users/transactions that way it can be updateable.
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AmScam . . .?
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LOL!!! thats catchy. If anyone needs money to pitch in for a domain name, I'll pitch in via paypal.
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I like AmScam. :-)
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I've got a close friend who does DNS, he can sort the domain name quite cheap...
Amscam.org would be 12GBP for a year at his standard price
He's an ex-amiga user himself, and sometimes visits this site
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@Cyberus
You forgot ANALOGIC!
A full description of my past grievances with them are available upon request. NB, anyone considering doing business with Analogic is advised to think VERY carefully as several people here have had some nasty experiences with them.
Seriously though, some sort of forum where we get to discuss our experiences - both good and bad with Amiga sellers would be invaluable.
Several people have had problems with DCE and PPC cards, there's Analogic too and I know that a few people have commented on AOrg members' Ebay dealings, maybe a forum where we can post our grievences and give the respondents an opportunity to state their side of the case would be beneficial?
That way we can sort the Analogics from the Eyetechs for the benefit of the community on the whole.
Whaddya think guys? Maybe the moderators here would give it a go?
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@Cyberus:
That's pretty cheap. Sounds good to me.
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@ PMC
Oh yeah. Wasn't that in your sig? Or was it someone else's?
The problem as always, is that we have to be careful.
For instance, if one person got an item late, or defective, that isn't enough to condemn a seller in my eyes, although others may see it that way.
Notice in my first post, I was being slightly humerous with the notion of 'indiscriminate beatings' - I was alluding to the fact that innocent people often end up getting dragged into these things by the 'mob mentality'.
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Add me down for the Pacific Northwest Rep. Any scammers in the area watch out!!!
BoingBoss? j/k ;)
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I've got a close friend who does DNS, he can sort the domain name quite cheap...
Yeah, I'm already the registrar for several amiga related websites. Having another won't be an issue. A .org would be £12.00 for a year, £11.00 for a year if you get hosting elsewhere and just want the domain name with DNS management. For ultra cheap something like amscam.org.uk would be £9.00 for two years, exc. hosting.
Currently migrating to a new support system/website though due to spam, I hope none of them have sent me emails recently that haven't been replied too :S We're at http://www.firevision.net/
I wonder if atari and archimedes people have the same levels of scamming as the amiga community? Maybe they'd appreciate something along this line too, or as a subsection - i expect that someone that is scamming the amiga market will also be scamming the other markets, and vice versa, so it makes sense.
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@Cyberus:
After we expand enough and become bigger, we could send hitmen worldwide to seak out the offensive bad traders and... ;-)
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Hi Hattig
SCAM is a job for someone, so it isn't strange if affects Amiga market also.
With the "incoming" AOS4 for CSPPC, this problem is growing up.
BTW . . .CSPPC and BlizzardPPC, are beginning to be old.
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Yes! Count me in too!
:ak47:
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EzdineG:
Ok, I emailed another ebayer that recieved his item from maxxdoo.. I did some lookin' on the net and found his # to his house, which is different then he has listed with ebay.
I will call him throughout the day until I get a hold of him. I'll find out what the deal is. What is your ebay name that way I can ask what is going on? Cyberus, you too, I will ask if I get a hold of him unless any of you want his direct # I will post that also.
UPDATE:
his email is not only u2zippy@juno.com but also CHURCHTUNA@yahoo.com
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OK the #1 JOB at hand is dealing with the scum at DCE!!!! They have my CSPPC card since May 2001. We need some representation from German users to deal with this head on!!!
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Cyberus wrote:
What do you say we start up our own vigilante group to go and beat the living crap out of people who scam people out of their money?
Each country could have its own crack team of nutters who go around indiscriminately administering beatings to those who rip off fellow members of the community.
Bernd Binder
That tosser here in UK who ripped off Dragster and x56h34
Maxxdoo
Karmanss
and maybe even DCE?
Karmanss? Give me details. I've seen some of his stuff on eBay. He lives in Calgary, doesn't he? I live in Edmonton... that's not too far away. Maybe I could put some pressure on him ;)
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@mpiva
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10948 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10948)
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Bought a 4000T off him. It was fine. Expensive, but ok. As far as a yellowed keyboard, it's hard to expect anything that old not to be a bit yellowed. Plastic degrades over time anyway. I think the days of expecting "perfect" condition Amiga hardware that has not been manufactured for close to 10 years is a bit unreasonable... If it works well and has no major scars, then I would define it as being in excellent condition. My 2 cents.
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@MAGIC
It's ezdinegaray. Thanks!
-Adrian
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done..sent a email earlier.
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and maybe even DCE?
does anyone know how many csppcs from users dce still has? maybe the german squad could set up a website where everybody who still didn't get their cards back could sign up.. and then maybe organize something to get them back..
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Well, I called Sheldon Garcia fyi 815-961-0625 (different then the # listed with ebay) just now.. 10pm Central time..I dont know what time zone he is in but they kept hanging up on me so I kept calling and calling, then I stayed on when they hung up, so they'd pick up and notice they didnt hear dialtone so they'd hang up..so then I called and finally got some girl (wife?) and she sounded asleep..LOL. Sheldon wasnt there but I said my name and said I along with a few other ebayers have not recieved our items, we're looking to get them as soon as possible, pass the message along. I'll call back many times during the day until I get a hold of him.
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Is anyone interested in getting this idea off the ground?
I don't mind stumping up a bit of cash for the Domain registration, but as I'm moving house, well in fact, moving abroad, I don't have the time to actually author the site...any takers?
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TheMagicM wrote:
That would be great to have a webpage or a link of fraud/scammers aka LOSERS that steal other peoples money. Put their real name, address,contact info on there and watch 'em squirm. Maybe we should list Amiga Inc for that $50 deal.. LOLOL j/k
You know I never thought of that, they did basicly steal $50 from all of us that sent in money. I guess they can get away with it and say it was a subscription for the insider club mailing list though.
i'm in for helping out. I've been calling for one of us on here to a suspected ebay scammer, lo lucking getting an answer though.
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@cyberus:
I'd be willing to chip in a few bucks too, unfortunately my html skills are virtually nonexistant (I mean....just look at my personal 'site' :-)).
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Hi odin
the same for me.
The page should be as simple as possible.
Let me know, when and where to send the money
I think that 10,00 Euro each, can help to find a "good and reliable" guy for write the page, find the Domain registration and so :-)
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Everyone can send me $10, in return you'll be a member of the international Amiga scam squad and get a free T-Shirt :lol:
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Edzine, Cyberus: I got a hold of Sheldon and he was saying he was having problems with his email or whatnot and he can only converse via ebay 'contact member'.. So do that and ask him whats up. Cyberus, I take it you're the overseas guy, he said your stuff is going out (both of you'alls) that it should be going out by Monday. And Jeff (local guy here in my city), your stuff is going out also..albeit slowly but its getting done.
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The idea might be fine, but what if someone tells you: "this man is scammer" and he was in fact just pissed off by that guy. What I mean, you should be careful not to put innocent man on list.
Other problem is that scammers can always use some other addresses, like the one of their relatives, etc.
How about making a "white" list (though I would prefer orange;) ) that would contain only trusted persons.
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I actually can host the site for free an even give a subdomain of my domain for free . I can even start the hosting this monday but I can not do the job of writing the site... I can just give some minutes a day to admin it but I prefer someone else to do it. If any of you have any suggestion or some work for this (it doesn't matter to be complete) can PM me to start it as soon as possible.
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Hi Cyberus,
What do you say we start up our own vigilante group to go and beat the living crap out of people who scam people out of their money?
Do you need the DoomMaster?! :-D
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BoingBoss: Was that pic of you in your avatar really you? (the one next to the C=64)? Cause if so, no offense, but I would probably laugh if you said you were going to kick my butt. I think we need some meaner lookin folks. LOL :-P
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First off all you guys are going to get into trouble if you try to intimidate people to any real extent. Don't act like a Mafioso, Rambo or something, trying stuff you see in the movies will most surely get you hurt, in trouble or worse.
The thing that will actually work in many cases is just persistently bugging people politely about for-filling their obligation. Including polite references to legal or other actions that might be taken.
This is just like you AmigaHeads to get all extreme. Why don't you all start an Amiga Jih@d and take over world market-share that way. :-D
BTW: :-o Doomie (Boing Boss) has been known to crack a can-o-whopass at the drop of a hat. I once saw him drop-kick a dude in the throat for using foul language in front of a lady. According to the Beaverton Mall security and the Electronics Boutique people (whom I know ) the guy said "Amiga sucks or something to that effect".
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@magic = Hilarious!
TheMagicM wrote:
BoingBoss: Was that pic of you in your avatar really you? (the one next to the C=64)? Cause if so, no offense, but I would probably laugh if you said you were going to kick my butt. I think we need some meaner lookin folks. LOL :-P [/quote]
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Hi TheMagicM,
That picture was taken about 20 years ago. I look different now. :-D
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I have met the great DoomMaster in person. He looks like the original avatar he used to have on here.
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OK . . .. as soon as you have intention to do "serious" things (exept Doommy BS), let me know (PM or privately)
Bye
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BukkY: nobody is going to get beat up, even though I would be angry enough to deliver a pounding if someone stiffed me of my money... I hold the Amiga seller above a 'regular seller' and expect better conduct out of them in regards to shipping/not scamming people etc.
As for Doomie delivering a can-of-whatever you said..are you sure he didnt drop the can on they way to delivering it?
I'm sorry, I just dont see a guy like him being mad enough to do that. Maybe take your pocket protector or something or flick your ear...
(Boingboss, all in fun! :-P )
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You could always threaten them with Interpol or something, but its unlikely to work :admonish:
Hey I made it to "too much caffeine" :banana:
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I finally got an email from maxxdoo - thanks TheMagicM {and also Acill} for all you have done to help.
I got an apologetic email saying "May god rain blessings upon your house" or somesuch. A bit of sunshine, however, would be fine by me.
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Ya'all can count me in as the "Ossie Connection" :lol:
Seriously, PM me if I can be of any assistance, the way the Amiga market is headed, we need something like this urgently!!!
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Cyberus: glad it worked out for ya! I'm getting my stuff also. :)
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@ MagicM
Did you receive it in the end?
It's been almost two weeks since he emailed me and assured me that he'd be sending the stuff, and over a month since I paid out over $100 for it, and I STILL haven't received it.
:-( :-(
I go to great lengths to keep my ebay customers happy, yet he seems to want defraud me :pissed:
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@adz
Happy to help out too (in Melbourne)
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Cyberus: I recieved my items and my friends items already. I will call him today to see what is up with your stuff. He said he was refunding someone their money but I dont know who.
EDIT:
I bought 2 A500's and 1 AdRAM 540 for $70 shipped.. since it took so long he shipped 2 more A500's. (no psu, no mouse)... you'all are probably thinking wow, great deal right? Well.. one a500 had something spilled on the mobo and the aluminum enclosure underneath was rusted as was the floppy drive cover. Two more had some sort of 'Frankenstein' work done to where almost every chip had 'stand-offs'..some sort of spacer about 4 per chip. 1 mobo had almost all socketed chips removed, one had quite a few missing etc.
Another thing..
he enclosed a Trifecta ICD psu, a ISA memory board, two C= psu's (I dont know what for..they're in the dumpster now) and he wants me to send some stuff back. I almost feel like sending back junk. Ie. A different 'black' psu, some other junk ISA card and stalling him for about 1 month. But that wouldnt be right..or would it.
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Count me in to cover the West Coast of Australia.
Plus I work in Intellectual Property law and work with a few lawyers so Im sure I can coin some impressive law type phrases to scare any scammers!
:-D :-D
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Cyberus:
-- Alex Bartonek wrote:
Sheldon,
I am disappointed that you didnt tell me that these
amiga's had alot of chips missing. I will be lucky if
I piece one together that works. A rusted Amiga 500,
thats not right to send that, obviously someone
spilled something on it.
On a similiar note, the guy in UK said he has not
recieved anything, nor heard from you. What is the
status of his Ebay items?
-Alex
==============================================
His reply
==============================================
"
i will send you 2 more boards, sent you 4 for the price of two & a add
a speed chip too. i will send a email with the USPS tracking info, to
the UK. thought i had don so all ready. i will send out the 2 other
boards by Friday.
Gods speed."
==============================================
Funny thing on the "speed chip".. its a stock 68000 w/a AdSpeed sticker on it.. LOL. I told him to CC me on the tracking # he sends you.
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Thanks for that, I really appreciate what you have done.
As an aside,
All this 'godspeed' and 'god bless all in your house' business is really starting to get up my nose. Not because its religious, as I have a lot of respect for religion, but because he seems to use it to legitimise his dodgy practices. I'm sure a real God-fearing person would behave more honourably :-(
Fingers crossed for the items.
Did you say he sent you a 68k CPU and called it an AdSpeed?!
Its not this is it?
http://amiga-hardware.com/adspeed.html (http://amiga-hardware.com/adspeed.html)
Anyway, thanks again :-)
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thats what he was implying yes. but when you look at it, its just a 68000 cpu (or whichever) with the sticker..the board itself is not there. I will take pictures of the stuff I got from him and post them later tonight.
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I'd be only too happy to go down to Analogic and kick Raj's backside
but I know from experience he'd just take out a notepad and pen, be
arrogant and dismissive for half an hour and you'd probably feel like
kicking yourself for bothering.
The best thing a site like this AmScam could offer is legal advice on
how to proceed.
For example, someone on eBay lately sold me something which turned out
to be the wrong item, when it was sent back the user went NARU and I
couldn't get in touch.
I spotted the same auction style again, won the auction and
lo-and-behold the same girl/guy was up and trading under a sibling
alias.
Again - arrogance, Not a Registered User then vanished.
I wrote to eBay and they did a bit, both accounts are NARU and the
user's Square Trade identity was highlighted to the site.
I have now obtained a Small Claim Form for the SCC and hope now that
an official summons will scare the pants off them.
As for Analogic, it'd be interesting to see how many other Amiga
owners have had trouble with these chimps.
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x56h34 wrote:
@Cyberus:
After we expand enough and become bigger, we could send hitmen worldwide to seak out the offensive bad traders and... ;-)
it might turn into something like the film "Leon" :-D
i can do some simple to maintain webpage in php. although i'm the laziest guy in the universe, so there's no chance of it looking good :lol:
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Maxdoo has done me fine so far, no complaints. He promptly sent my AIDE2/NOVIA kit. Three days ago I purchased an AdSpeed from him. I just received a shipping notification from PayPal that my second purchase is on the way. I want to thank you all for helping Maxdoo to stay on point and I hope everyone gets their purchases, which I am sure they will. :-)
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OK, I'm looking at this Maxdoo character to pick up an AdSpeed. Has anybody had any feedback about him since 2004, or am I going to be the guinea pig here?
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and watch 'em squirm.
assuming they care or if the people they scam even know about the bad people list. a list somewhere doesn't help the general Amiga buying public.
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weirdami wrote:
and watch 'em squirm.
assuming they care or if the people they scam even know about the bad people list. a list somewhere doesn't help the general Amiga buying public.
Lets put a few things into context here:
1) When this thread was started, there seemed to be an unprecedented level of scamming going on. A guy in England ripped off people with promises of PPC cards, and someone called 'Bernd Binder' ripped off more people for a few thousand more Euros.
2) The whole thing was meant to be light-hearted, despite the fact that scamming is not necessarily a light-hearted subject. (Hence me mentioning 'indiscriminate beatings' in my first post, it was meant to allude to the fact that the mob mentality is always silly, always gets out of hand and always affects innocents.
3) The 'Doomie BS' that framiga referred to (and I'm assuming he himself realised this), is about the fact that two of Doomy's alter egos turn up near the end of the thread and have an argument with themselves. (Boing Boss and the other account which has a picture of a bowling ally as its avatar)
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@Cyberus
Bernd Binder is actually from Germany and scammed around 2,500Euros from at least a dozen people, mainly AOrg members. The last time I heard anything he was going to trial on 'more serious' charges than AmiScamming.
Though the name-naming website being proposed is well intentioned, I just wonder who is going to be the arbitor on who gets listed? Binder, Doomy and their like may be obvious candidates, but they're reasonably well known. And remember that some(many?) of Doomy's customers seem happy with their deals. I could forsee someone getting tarred and feathered based on hearsay or for making an honest mistake. How many transgressions before you're listed? A disgruntled eBayer could invent stuff just to serve his own agenda.
Though it seems you can almost get away with murder on the Internet, there are still laws to protect people.
Just my immediate thoughts,
JaX
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I know you are not being serious, but it still think it would be good if someone actually scared them a bit. I bet just knocking on the door to one of these guys would probably be enough ;-)
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JaXanim wrote:
@Cyberus
Bernd Binder is actually from Germany and scammed around 2,500Euros from at least a dozen people, mainly AOrg members. The last time I heard anything he was going to trial on 'more serious' charges than AmiScamming.
Though the name-naming website being proposed is well intentioned, I just wonder who is going to be the arbitor on who gets listed? Binder, Doomy and their like may be obvious candidates, but they're reasonably well known. And remember that some(many?) of Doomy's customers seem happy with their deals. I could forsee someone getting tarred and feathered based on hearsay or for making an honest mistake. How many transgressions before you're listed? A disgruntled eBayer could invent stuff just to serve his own agenda.
Though it seems you can almost get away with murder on the Internet, there are still laws to protect people.
Just my immediate thoughts,
JaX
Jeez, I know I go a roundabout way of explaining things, but I'll state again:
2) The whole thing was meant to be light-hearted, despite the fact that scamming is not necessarily a light-hearted subject. (Hence me mentioning 'indiscriminate beatings' in my first post, it was meant to allude to the fact that the mob mentality is always silly, always gets out of hand and always affects innocents.
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edit: sorry, double post
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I notice Anal-Logic Computers is selling off CD32s on eBay under the ID analogiccomputers (http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZanalogiccomputersQQhtZ-1)(7).
Be warned that this company has roused anger among a few Amiga.org members and you risk being royally ripped off by them. Reporting them to the Office of Fair Trading, Trading Standards et al has been on my To-Do list for far too long...