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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: MarkTime on February 04, 2003, 07:25:32 PM

Title: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 04, 2003, 07:25:32 PM
From http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com

Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard, YDL: $499.00 + Shipping

They list an 800mhz G4.

800mhz, Teron PX motherboard, $499

How many HUNDREDS of dollars are you sending Genesi and/or Eyetech in premium?

And remember, terrasoft is not a charity, they make a lot of money out of this, and they also developed YDL, a linux derivative, yes, but more R&D was spent on that than morphos and AOS4 combined.

So why do they find it in their hearts not to gouge?

Anyway, this won't ship till mid-february, so until then its not real, but I see some SERIOUS price corrections need to be made, and soon.

I advice anyone DON'T BUY NOW, WAIT.

NEVER PRE-ORDER.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Methuselas on February 04, 2003, 07:40:58 PM
Uh, isn't that practically the same Mobo? Not to be rude, but that's half the price. I appreciate that they want to make money, but what's more important, having 1000 users using an overpriced MOBO or having 10000 users with a relatively reasonable priced one? Gee, are we paying an extra 500$ for a dongle?
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 04, 2003, 07:40:58 PM
fyi,

800mhz G4 pre-order from my dealer...www.softhut.com  $879

so to answer my one question...

the 'name'  costs $380.
$380 premium for OS 4 certification.


As soon as someone is actually shipping, I will call this highway robbery....until then, look how the difference in cost on all this vaporware.

.......................................................................

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: carls on February 04, 2003, 08:25:27 PM
Gosh.
I haven't looked into this very much, but with the A1/Peg I thought the Amiga community finally could get rid of the overpriced Amiga hardware. Sure, I could pay a little more money for a MoBo that is _guaranteed_ to run OS4 (or MorphOS or whatever you're into) without quirks or crashes. But not this much!

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Paul_Gadd on February 04, 2003, 08:31:05 PM
$380 for a boot rom lol  priceless,

If it is true it will show how much them bastards are ripping the users off,

I wonder how many Amiga users are going to defend this SCAM.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 08:43:07 PM
Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard, YDL: $499.00 + Shipping

AmigaOne-XE m/b w/ G4 7451@800MHz cpu 500.00 +VAT & Shipping

The AmigaOne doesn`t cost much more, and includes an OS4 licence.

The £800 pounds that someone quoted was for a G4 Starter System not just the Motherboard.

Given all this, I really don`t think we are being ripped off.


Frank.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 08:44:18 PM
>I wonder how many Amiga users are going to defend this SCAM.  

Well, I Will!

Read my previous post


Frank.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 08:48:28 PM
BTW,

The system that TerraSoft are building with the TeronPX is called "Boxer"!!!!!!

Are they taking the P**S!?!?!?!

 :-P


Frank.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Paul_Gadd on February 04, 2003, 08:49:16 PM
AmigaOne-XE w/ G3 750FX@800MHz cpu
= £528.75
= $872.42

872 Dollars not Pounds
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 04, 2003, 08:49:58 PM
(edited post about pounds and dollars because Paul got it first)....n/m
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: jumpship on February 04, 2003, 08:52:39 PM
@CaptainFrank

From eyetech's website:
AmigaOne-XE m/b w/ G4 7451@800MHz cpu £500.00(ex vat) £587.50(inc vat)

The only thing is that $499 = £302 (approx) so including VAT that is £354

So (in theory) that is about £230 for the dongle and OS4 licesnse.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: on February 04, 2003, 08:52:58 PM
Marketing Expert?
you should have mentioned AOne: 500 UKP (not $)

[edit]
Hey I was the fourth not even among the medallists ;)
   
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 08:56:02 PM
Opps,

Missed that one somehow....

Boy, don`t I look stupid...

 :-(


Frank.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Troels_E on February 04, 2003, 08:59:51 PM
Hi Frank

Keep in mind that Eyetechs price is in British pounds not usd.  £ 500 = $ 824. (EDIT: OK, I was way to late pointing that out! :-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway the Teron is not able to run OS4 and when you pretend to order it on their site it says G3-600mhz on the "view shopping cart" page.

So are you sure the 499,- is with a G4 (I doubt it)???
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 09:00:51 PM
OK, picking myself up from my previous posts on this subject...

> The only thing is that $499 = £302

True.  however, it never actually translates like this does it?

I mean, we in the UK are always being ripped off,  a $499 product is usually sold in the UK fo £499.

Isn`t this always the case?

I feel sorry for the people in the US who are paying for the board to be sent to eyetech, just to be sent back to the US.

Or am I being my usual stupid self?


Frank.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Eric_Z on February 04, 2003, 09:03:18 PM
Does the Terrasoft board have onboard sound?
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 09:03:32 PM
> it says G3-600mhz on the "view shopping cart"

I noticed on their website that the picture of the board is actually a TeronCX with a surface-mount G3.

But thats just a picture...


Frank.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Kronos on February 04, 2003, 09:07:36 PM
@EricZ

When the TeronPX (aka A1-XE) goes into production it will be
produced by one company on the same assembly line, so you can be
100% sure that the differences between the two will only be in
BIOS, name and price.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: jumpship on February 04, 2003, 09:08:07 PM
Quote
I mean, we in the UK are always being ripped off, a $499 product is usually sold in the UK fo £499.


Not if you get it shipped from the US ;-) I have found that in some cases it is better to order the same product from America and then pay the VAT here for it, because you can get it cheaper then buying it here.

But you are right, generally if something is $499 if the US then it will be £499 in the UK :-(
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 04, 2003, 09:10:31 PM
Terrasoft is not selling the G3/600mhz board at all.
They changed their website only on January 31st.

A man from the company confirmed to me that the specs of their boxer series had changed and would now be a G4/800mhz, and that he would update the website on that day, the 31st.

However, he also told me, even then, that the official announcement wouldn't be until mid-february.

I think they are waiting till it ships, so as not to get burned again on slipping release dates.

In any event, $499 is not an unreasonable price for this board.  I am not concerned about their quick update of the website, a few pictures of a G3 were just an oversight, they are not selling a G3 model.

If they have listed the price wrong, that is just stupid....but who knows, as I mentioned in the beginning, this product is not shipping so it is just vaporware at the moment...though I think it probably will ship soon, and then we will know.

btw the G4/800 without L2 cache sell for $299 from giga designs....that is a mac upgrade card.  so $499 for G4/800 with ancient 2xAGP, 3PCI slot, 133mhz ram motherboard is not out of the question, and I think it is the actual price.

But of course, until it ships I don't believe anything...just thought it was interesting.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Paul_Gadd on February 04, 2003, 09:17:54 PM
I really hope they start to ship those G4 boards after when all the Amiga users who orderd a Teron PX-ONE board recieve them.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: on February 04, 2003, 09:19:25 PM
Kdh is offering

G4-XE 7451@800 Linux

http://www.kdh-amiga-shop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=772&products_model=&osCsid=9eb18f635d6d0044127460c58ceb4527

That is a Teron PX without AOS4 donglecode
for 845.90EUR (incl german fat) that is about $788 excl fat
and the AOne Early Bird for 898.90EUR and later for 973.95 ( both incl AOS4)

So maybe the terrasoft Price is realy for the CX?
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Kronos on February 04, 2003, 09:25:44 PM
@weiseb

That board is still running through Eyetech who have zero interest
in showing the pricegap between both boards (and want to make some
extra  $$$$$).
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 09:27:09 PM
http://www.sidwell.co.uk/shop/merchant.tpl?id=334

£399 + VAT for a G4@450Mhz with 1mb cache

and thats just a processor card!  Does the A1-XE still seem expensive?


OK... stupid question  :-)


Frank.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 04, 2003, 09:37:01 PM
@captainfrank,

they really do overcharge 'ya'll' somtimes over there....www.macsales.com  $299 us dollars for G4 800mhz cpu upgrade card.  You'll have to traverse the site, I don't have the specific link handy.

That is the card without the L2 cache....sonnettech and some of the others have the L2 cache, and they run closer to $399 us dollars.

But I believe the AmigaONE is sans L2 cache as well, so its a fine comparison in this case.

The gigabit ethernet logic boards for macs cost $150, new, on ebay, and the $299 giga designs card, would make a G4 cpu/motherbaord come in at $449 beating everyone's price.....but its an unsupported frankenmac....

Don't know why but those gigabit ethernet logic boards are always on sale cheap on e-bay...apple must have made too many or something...but they take a real weird power supply so, its not quite so simple.

On the other hand, they do run Mac OS X, which these other boards do not (MOL doesn't count because MOL DOES NOT HANDLE 3D acceleration)....

who wants a comp without 3d acceleration....

anyway.....I am posting far too much today, I better go work some.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: on February 04, 2003, 09:42:15 PM
@Kronos
Do you realy think they prefer to hide the price gap over making money? no one will buy the (hmm... how should I call it ;) Eyetech-Teron for running Linux if they can get the same board a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: CaptainFrank on February 04, 2003, 09:47:17 PM
@MarkTime

> they really do overcharge 'ya'll' somtimes over there

Yeah, they really do!

I`ve just been checking Gordon Harwoods website (remember them?), they have Upgrades as follows:

Sonnet Encore/ST G4 800MHz Upgrade Card With 2MB DDR L3 Cache £339 +VAT & Shipping

This also has a L3 cache though...

It`s a bit more like it, but the A1-XE costs £499 and this costs £339 just for the CPU card (although, lets not forget the L3 cache)

We are basically paying £160 +VAT for the motherboard and OS4 Licence.

Which, I`ll admit, does seem expensive, but so is everythink in the UK!


Frank
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: zacman on February 04, 2003, 10:22:20 PM
>The AmigaOne doesn`t cost much more, and
>includes an OS4 licence.

The OS4 enabler kit (to make a LinuxOne OS4
compatible, fully licenced etc.) is available for
160EUR from Vesalia. So for TS (if the price was
right) would be 660eur for a 64/800MHz Boxer with a
OS4 licence.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 04, 2003, 11:35:13 PM
I don't believe in piracy, but for $380 dollars ...well shiver me timbers, fly that jolly roger, put a hook on my hand and call me captain, cause I'll step on your skull to save 380 dollars....

ok, I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm not paying a 380 dollar premium for OS4.

That was not an endorsement for piracy.

160 euro's for OS 4?  OK, I can see how you arrived at the price, but don't forget to subtract out the linux distro that you don't need to buy...suse 7.3 is 66 eur, and YDL is $29.

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: downix on February 05, 2003, 12:11:03 AM
Quote
800mhz, Teron PX motherboard, $499

How many HUNDREDS of dollars are you sending Genesi and/or Eyetech in premium?


Actually, please check out http://www.pegasos-usa.com for pricing

The retail price on a Pegasos is *trumpet please* $499.

Funny, same price for a higher-end motherboard seems like a good deal to me.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 05, 2003, 12:13:05 AM
The board you mentioned is a G3/600, not a G4/800, so you aren't comparing apples to apples.

However, all of this is vapor so we'll have to meet again and compare shipping products (if that ever happens again)

But the pegasos is cheaper than the A-one, at least in the states.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: downix on February 05, 2003, 01:10:23 AM
Quote

MarkTime wrote:
The board you mentioned is a G3/600, not a G4/800, so you aren't comparing apples to apples.

However, all of this is vapor so we'll have to meet again and compare shipping products (if that ever happens again)

But the pegasos is cheaper than the A-one, at least in the states.


But I am.  The G4/800 listed there runs without an L3 cache, which makes it equal in performance to the G4/600 which, in non-Altivec mode, is nearly equal in performance to the G3-600.  So we're still comparing similarly speced machines.  Only the Pegasos comes with a built-in audio system, a mini-ATX form factor, firewire support, and actually can use the AGP slot.

And I'd hardly call it vapor.  Please, order a board from us and in 10-20 business days it should be on your doorstep.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: bbrv on February 05, 2003, 03:24:54 AM
Nate, you are a smart guy…glad that you are on our “side.”  Could we add that in addition to what you have mentioned, we have MorphOS and our own DebianPPC distro with Mac-on-Linux?  We have tried to help people understand for some time that the G3 and G4 with altivec truly work differently.  In this case G3 or G4 make little difference and in fact the G3 works better.

MarkTime, we appreciate you starting this thread.  It did take TerraSoft a little time to understand they posted the wrong picture…;-)  But, their pricing is good.  We did mention here on this site (in December) that the TerraSoft pricing would eventually put some pressure on this market.  There will be more pressure soon…;-)

Lets watch what happens next or in “mid-Feburary 2003” (they could learn to spell February right!).  You have to admit calling it the “Boxer” series ought to make a few Amigans scratch their heads

Sincerely,
R&B  :-)
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Hammer on February 05, 2003, 04:08:59 AM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
@EricZ

When the TeronPX (aka A1-XE) goes into production it will be
produced by one company on the same assembly line, so you can be
100% sure that the differences between the two will only be in
BIOS, name and price.

Do know the address?  
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: amigamad on February 05, 2003, 08:28:33 AM
amiga stuff always has been expensise, you can buy 4 amd socket a boards and 4 procesers that are twice as fast as an a1 or terron board for what these cost. :-?
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: anarchic_teapot on February 05, 2003, 09:08:31 AM
Quote
MarkTime wrote:

But I believe the AmigaONE is sans L2 cache as well, so its a fine comparison in this case.


Sorry, but you're wrong. Both the IBM 750 FX/CXe and Motorola's 7451 have an on-board L2 cache (doing a search on ibm.com and motorola.com turns up this info very quickly). AFAIK, the 7451 will also have an L3 cache.

Terrasoft's site looks to me as if it hasn't been fully updated, as there's no way they can sell the PX for the same prix as the CX and make money on it. They do have to eat, after all.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: anarchic_teapot on February 05, 2003, 09:15:20 AM
Quote
downix wrote:

But I am.  The G4/800 listed there runs without an L3 cache, which makes it equal in performance to the G4/600 which, in non-Altivec mode, is nearly equal in performance to the G3-600.

ROTFL. And if you switch the power off on the G4, it runs infinitely slower than the G3.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the A1G4XE will have an L3 cache, and both Linux and AOS4 will make use of Altivec.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: anarchic_teapot on February 05, 2003, 09:31:29 AM
Quote
zacman wrote:

The OS4 enabler kit (to make a LinuxOne OS4
compatible, fully licenced etc.) is available for
160EUR from Vesalia. So for TS (if the price was
right) would be 660eur for a 64/800MHz Boxer with a
OS4 licence.

Except that the Boxer won't come with an OS4 licence.

Not forgetting that the update kit also comprises a new firmware chip, the extractor tool and a legal copy of OS4. Other commercial OSes cost more than 160 euros inc VAT for the OS alone, and you've already paid for the licence with your mobo, whether you wanted to or not.

Oh, and @ the guy that thinks it's OK to steal licences : apart from the fact that it's an awful lot of work just to save 160 euros, remember that the more software theft happens now, the more likely it is that the Amiga will die. Again, because piracy already helped kill it once.
I presume you like to be paid for the work you do? Why should you refuse to pay others for the work they do for you? If you don't like what they do, don't buy it. If you like what they do, don't steal it.

See the story of the goose that laid the golden eggs for further information.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Quixote on February 05, 2003, 09:35:56 AM
;-) The announcement of a lower priced product just as the opposition is beginning to release their competing product is a commonly used marketing strategy.  The idea is to reduce the competition's market share while increasing your own.  Until a product is released, and you can plonk down cash and walk out with it, an announced price is just an announced price.  Take it for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: bbrv on February 05, 2003, 09:37:24 AM
Hey look Rose, here we all are -- together -- no harsh words, no insults...incredible!

Cool! ;-)

Best regards and good luck!

R&B :-D
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: poweramiga2002 on February 05, 2003, 09:46:35 AM
now ime all confused does this mean the A1 g4 800  is a waist of money and we might as well just get the g3/600 because its just as fast ? :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Quixote on February 05, 2003, 10:13:21 AM
poweramiga2002 puzzled:
Quote
now ime all confused does this mean the A1 g4 800  is a waist of money and we might as well just get the g3/600 because its just as fast ?
;-) In a word, no.

:-D In many words, a G4/800 Amiga will be much faster than a G3/600 Amiga.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: poweramiga2002 on February 05, 2003, 10:48:58 AM
I do hope so and i hope mine arives soon  :-)  :-D
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: strobe on February 05, 2003, 10:40:22 PM
I always wondered what was the sound a thousand pre-orders being cancelled would make.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Rob on February 06, 2003, 12:08:23 AM


Has anyone else noticed the illustration Picture Terrasoft use for the
Teron PX is a Teron CX.

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 06, 2003, 12:43:25 AM
@anarchic,

yes I was referring to L3 cache, not L2 cache.  Which I almost corrected, but it was late....still you are right, and I was adding to the confusion just a bit, thanks for the correction.

However, I do think they can sell a teron px for $499 and make plenty of money.  In the PC world an 800mhz processor on 2xAGP motherboard would go for, ohhh 99 dollars maybe.

This isn't the same, I know...but $499 is FIVE TIMES AS MUCH...that should cover the difference of the smaller market.  You know MAI just makes a cheap @#$#@ chipset, those  chips aren't made of gold, they aren't even up to date...so, long story short, the real thing that caries the premium is the G4 chip, but going for the ultra-low end 800mhz model is SUPPOSED to be taking part of that sting away.

whatever happens, happens....I am willing to wait until February to compare shipping prices...I never had any intention of pre-ordering anything, so I was always safe.

my opinion, wait for stock, always wait for stock, prices go down

imho
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 06, 2003, 01:12:29 AM
@bbrv

I can admit I puzzled over that name for a few seconds, but there is more interesting drama at the moment, I'll certainly save that potential conspiracy theory for another day.

I knew of Terrasoft from their YDL product, but the first promise they ever made, that I cared about, was the 'Janurary' release date of the Boxer...they blew that, bad bad terrasoft.

Still,  we can deconstruct any company to death, Terrasoft ships products at competitive prices, because they operate in a competitive market.  I am sure they aren't concerned about Amiga, but rather competitive threats in the emerging ppc linux field...such as hemeris and especially apple...

Sooooooooooo I think its great, very exciting, and I sure hope somehow it translates into an exciting Amiga market too....



Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 06, 2003, 01:36:52 AM
@poweramiga2002,

He's just running that up the pole to see if it flies...there are a lot of reasons why the G4 is faster than a G3...and no reason why an 800mhzG4 would be slower than a 600mhzG3.

If they were clocked the same, we could talk about cache sizes and altivec coding and have a real bru-haha of a discussion, but luckily, they just aren't the same.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Korodny on February 06, 2003, 03:03:31 AM
@bbrv:

Quote

Hey look Rose, here we all are -- together -- no harsh words, no insults...incredible!


Yes, most of us are pretty happy that you managed to post two contributions to this thread without

- posting private e-mails
- insulting somebody ("coward", troll", "no guts")
- telling somebody to "go away"
- threatening somebody to publish private information about him

Now if you could stop this "Rose has been a good girl today" crap, we could start to take you serious again. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: downix on February 06, 2003, 04:02:59 AM
Quote
He's just running that up the pole to see if it flies...there are a lot of reasons why the G4 is faster than a G3...and no reason why an 800mhzG4 would be slower than a 600mhzG3.


Providing we're discussing the same G3.  If you're comparing the Motorola MPC750 series of processors (what Apple called the G3) then you'd be correct.

But we're not, we're discussing the IBM 750 series of PowerPC processors.  These are very different beasts from Motorola's lineup.  Better pipeline setup, better heat dissipation, better processes used, all make them a stronger beast than Motorola offers.  The performance jump comes out to about 20% last time I checked... which is about the same boost that you get on a G4 w/o using the Altivec.

Now, once you add-in Altivec, it gets into L3 availibility.  If it's availible, then Altivec gives a serious boost to performance.  if not, you don't get much of one.

I'm not saying that a Pegasos is the best deal on the planet, but we're doing our best and delivering an honest product at an honest price.  Before you dismiss us due to a CPU spec at a pricepoint, how about you look at the rest of the solution.

The Teron board is a full ATX, Pegasos is a smaller Micro-ATX.

Teron doesn't include firewire while the Pegasos does

The teron uses the VIA 686B southbridge, which has known DMA bugs that are well documented.  The Pegasos uses the 8231 southbridge, which is a more modern chipset.  In fact, VIA is listing the VT6x series of southbridges as end-of-life when I checked their website.  While the VT82xx series has new versions still arriving.

then there's the quality of construction.  The Teron board is using every approach to lower the cost of the design.  The Pegasos uses higher-quality connectors in almost all cases.  Means the Pegasos will last longer in many situations.  Also, the positioning of the components on the motherboard can be an issue.  The Teron board has plug interfaces at the end of where the PCI slots run, which means if you get a long card, you can't use the hard drives, for example.  (before you get into it, I have a pro-studio AGP card here that is from the backplane to the front-brackets in my case, so it does actually occur)

Then there's the AGP/PCI-66Mhz slot issue.  If you run a 66Mhz card in that slot, AGP turns into a 33Mhz PCI slot.  Oops!

Of course, the Teron does support that funky new winmodem port.....
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: strobe on February 06, 2003, 05:09:09 AM
I don't understand the fourth PCi slot either. I mean who in their right minds would prefer four PCI cards and no AGP instead of three PCI cards and an AGP?

Are people planning on running a machine without a video card? Makes no sense.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: poweramiga2002 on February 06, 2003, 05:54:32 AM
Theres way too much gum flapping going on ere and when its all sed an done who cares as long as we get our A1 AMIGAS thats all that counts as long as its an AMIGA its always been the best and will always be the best
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Seehund on February 06, 2003, 09:29:29 AM
Quote

anarchic_teapot wrote:

Terrasoft's site looks to me as if it hasn't been fully updated, as there's no way they can sell the PX for the same prix as the CX and make money on it. They do have to eat, after all.


I just got a confirmation from Kai Staats that this is no typo, if something unforeseen happens it may go up by $50 but not more.
Mai used to charge $300 for the CX without a CPU, and the PX is neglibly more expensive to do (extra component costs: a MEG-Array connector and an ATX audio header = a few bucks). The main price difference lies in the CPUs (the PX CPU module PCBs cost a couple of extra bucks to do too).

As I've said before, there's no reason to keep making the CX ("AmigaOne SE") now. It wasn't all too suitable as a consumer board to begin with, and the PX fills its niche very well without being more expensive.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Seehund on February 06, 2003, 09:59:48 AM
Quote

anarchic_teapot wrote:
Quote
zacman wrote:

The OS4 enabler kit (to make a LinuxOne OS4
compatible, fully licenced etc.) is available for
160EUR from Vesalia. So for TS (if the price was
right) would be 660eur for a 64/800MHz Boxer with a
OS4 licence.

Except that the Boxer won't come with an OS4 licence.


Neither do the Teron PXes that Eyetech will sell at a recommended price of 800 Euro.

Quote

Not forgetting that the update kit also comprises a new firmware chip, the extractor tool and a legal copy of OS4.


What's the actual story on this? Nobody seems to know for sure. Will the dongle code be in the same reflashable *PROM as the firmware, or in a separate socketed ROM?

Quote

Other commercial OSes cost more than 160 euros inc VAT for the OS alone,


Yeah, for that price I can think of several high-end corporate server OSes... :P

Quote

and you've already paid for the licence with your mobo, whether you wanted to or not.


800 Euros apparently don't get you AmigaOS.

$499 gets you a boxed and supported copy of YDL.

[/quote]
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: ksk on February 06, 2003, 10:03:53 AM
@downix
>Then there's the AGP/PCI-66Mhz slot issue. If you run a
>66Mhz card in that slot, AGP turns into a 33Mhz PCI slot.

If one uses 66Mhz PCI card on the same bus with the AGP slot, the AGP2x (dualpumped 66Mhz) speed drops to 1x (still 66Mhz though). The clock frequency does not change but the data could not be moved twice per clock cycle, like in AGP2x.

(IMO: The speed difference between AGP1x and AGP2x is noticeable, but not with the current Amiga games.)
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Seehund on February 06, 2003, 10:05:03 AM
Quote

Rob wrote:


Has anyone else noticed the illustration Picture Terrasoft use for the
Teron PX is a Teron CX.



Yup. TS says the final PXes are still in fabbing, so they haven't had an opportunity for a new photoshoot. Also, there's no mention of the on-board audio ("Yes, we are aware of this. I have not had time to update all of the information.").
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: on February 06, 2003, 10:08:52 AM
what I wonder(and I know this is probably ignorant) is why business like say Genesi...cant get Asus or one of the big board makers to fab their boards out?... I'm not talking about selling them in bulk numbers or anything...but I just imagine it wouldnt be as expensive to do that instead of running off the DCE fab....am i possibly right? tell me why I'm wrong if I'm wrong... this is a question not a comment or statement.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: DaveP on February 06, 2003, 11:13:28 AM
Quote

then there's the quality of construction. The Teron board is using every approach to lower the cost of the design. The Pegasos uses higher-quality connectors in almost all cases. Means the Pegasos will last longer in many situations. Also, the positioning of the components on the motherboard can be an issue. The Teron board has plug interfaces at the end of where the PCI slots run, which means if you get a long card, you can't use the hard drives, for example. (before you get into it, I have a pro-studio AGP card here that is from the backplane to the front-brackets in my case, so it does actually occur)


Well after that I have no evidence that I can call on but
Im certainly now doubtful, full of fear and uncertainty.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Herewegoagain on February 06, 2003, 01:07:59 PM
Quote
The Teron board is a full ATX, Pegasos is a smaller Micro-ATX.


Works great if you are a midget with tiny hands to work in that tight cramped up case with hardly any way to get air flow through it.

Give me a full size board and case anyday.

Quote
Teron doesn't include firewire while the Pegasos does


Oh yeah, last time I needed firewire was .... hmmmm.............. never!  Don't need it, as most people will not.  If they do, just pop in a PCI card.  They are not that expensive for heavens sake.

Quote
The teron uses the VIA 686B southbridge, which has known DMA bugs that are well documented. The Pegasos uses the 8231 southbridge, which is a more modern chipset. In fact, VIA is listing the VT6x series of southbridges as end-of-life when I checked their website. While the VT82xx series has new versions still arriving.


Well this has been debated to death, and I believe it has been pointed out in other threads that the 8231 has some issues of it's own....So let's not call the kettle black yet.

Quote
then there's the quality of construction. The Teron board is using every approach to lower the cost of the design. The Pegasos uses higher-quality connectors in almost all cases. Means the Pegasos will last longer in many situations.


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Nice one....nobody can build a quality product but DCE.  Thanks for the laugh.

Quote
Also, the positioning of the components on the motherboard can be an issue. The Teron board has plug interfaces at the end of where the PCI slots run, which means if you get a long card, you can't use the hard drives, for example. (before you get into it, I have a pro-studio AGP card here that is from the backplane to the front-brackets in my case, so it does actually occur)


Come on now.  Is it the use of a long PCI card or AGP card that would be a problem.  Everyone with a full length PCI or AGP card raise your hand?  Anyway, it's not like the IDE connectors stick up higher than the actual PCI connector (which cards don't usually go below anyay).  Ok, move the PCI card to another slot then... how about that.  

Quote
Then there's the AGP/PCI-66Mhz slot issue. If you run a 66Mhz card in that slot, AGP turns into a 33Mhz PCI slot. Oops!


Already addressed by someone above.

Quote
Of course, the Teron does support that funky new winmodem port.....


Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. Wrong!  You are not keeping up with the news Downix.  No AMR slot on the PX boards.  (which btw are not only for modems)
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Themamboman on February 06, 2003, 03:13:11 PM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
@weiseb

That board is still running through Eyetech who have zero interest
in showing the pricegap between both boards (and want to make some
extra  $$$$$).


I don't want to be a trouble maker, but I'm a little weary of Eyetech.  About 6-7 years ago, I found a guy who made a custom hardware and software package for the Amiga to utilize the Connectix Quickcam, black and white version when I lived in Ft Lauderdale, Florida (he lived in the same town).

He wrote the software himself and uploaded a demo to aminet:

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/aminet/biz/demo/QuickCam.readme (http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/aminet/biz/demo/QuickCam.readme)

and designed and hand constructed the hardware himself:

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/quickcam.html (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/quickcam.html)

He was contacted by an Eyetech representative at the time about a distribution deal, so he sent a custom cable and software to them for them to test.  At the time, the only other solution was being worked on by a group called ACQVid or something like that, and I don't think they ever shipped it.

Anyway, he told me later, that Eyetech started advertising his cable and software for sale on their UK webpage, and they had never contacted him or paid him for his design.  They just started building cables and copying his software.  I'm not sure if they even printed a manual, but he said that they basically stole his product.

Tony was just a single, mid-20's immigrant with no family, working low-paying jobs and making his amiga products because he loved the platform.  He had no money for a lawyer (let alone an international one).  I know he complained to them several times by email, with little result.

I'm not indicting the whole crew at Eyetech, but at least one person there was dishonest at that time.  I'm personally not going to give them any money because of that.

BTW, I used to host a website advertising the his software and hardware.  The page was designed by the guy who used to run the Almost Daily Fishwrap which was a very good amiga news site, if you remember that one.

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: MarkTime on February 06, 2003, 03:17:14 PM
@Downix,

first the good, I think it is good that the board isn't another exact PX clone, we already have those, so this represents a new choice.

The micro-atx factor is going to be good for people who need it, firewire is nice to have included already, if you need it.

Thats good, if people need it and some do, but not me, so my purchase isn't impacted a whole lot by those things.  

Here is what I think about price/performance specs...its the most important thing to me, but not necessarily this market....we are not so price sensitive, but we are VERY performance sensitive.

Apple's best selling models are not their sub-1000 models...yes they go for that market, but their best iMac, is also their most expensive iMac.  

The same goes true for the remaining Amiga market, we are hard core zealots, we don't want to get ripped off a-la eyetech, but the fact that so many people pre-ordered a 880 dollar board, shows that we are willing to spend the $$$, but for the fastest board around.

I personally want the cheapest board...but I think far more people actually don't mind the 880 price, heck they'll spend a 1,000 dollars....just give them the fastest/sexiest machine around.

compete on the high end/not the low end...thats were this market is...where the mark up is...its a win win situation.

I think its a mistake to try and convince people that the G3 is fine.....

my 1 1/2 cents


Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Darth_X on February 06, 2003, 03:57:58 PM
Greetings Herewegoagain,

Quote
Works great if you are a midget with tiny hands to work in that tight cramped up case with hardly any way to get air flow through it.



You are assuming that there will be a lot of HEAT coming off this motherboard, similar to what one would expect from a PC with AMD processor. However, G3 CPUs run a lot cooler, you don't need a giant heat sink and possibly could get away without a fan in some cases.  ;-)

The PC I'm using has a Celeron 400(Mhz), which has a tiny heatsink & fan.. it almost doesn't need the fan if I had a bigger heatsink (maybe with a peltier junction cooler).

Quote
Nice one....nobody can build a quality product but DCE. Thanks for the laugh.


*shrugs* DCE are local to bplan (germany area) subcontractor. Of course, I'd like to see the Pegasos design licensed to other subcontractors around the world. But for now, it makes sense to go with the local subcontractor while bulding the market.
 

MAI rushed out the Articia Northbridge without properly testing it. Same with the Teron motherboard.. it too was rushed out. And mass produced using cheaper components. Example: The southbridge is older.. therefore it is also cheaper.



Quote
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. Wrong! You are not keeping up with the news Downix. No AMR slot on the PX boards. (which btw are not only for modems)


There is an AMR  slot in MAI docs:  

http://www.mai.com/products/BRV852R2.0.pdf
 :-D
 

Quote
Oh yeah, last time I needed firewire was .... hmmmm.............. never! Don't need it, as most people will not. If they do, just pop in a PCI card. They are not that expensive for heavens sake.


I have lots of uses for firewire. In one of my projects, the built-in firewire is going to be very useful.

Firewire is great for FAST external hard drives (good to have an external drive for backups). And there's some interesting things happening with firewire and linux (do a search for 'linux firewire').

Check these websites out:
http://www17.tomshardware.com/search/search.html?category=all&words=firewire

http://www.firewiremax.com/
http://www.firewirestuff.com/
http://www.1394ta.org/
http://www.firewiredirect.com/
http://fwdepot.com/thestore/default.php

Thanks  :-D
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: downix on February 06, 2003, 04:04:02 PM
Quote

Herewegoagain wrote:
Quote
The Teron board is a full ATX, Pegasos is a smaller Micro-ATX.


Works great if you are a midget with tiny hands to work in that tight cramped up case with hardly any way to get air flow through it.

Give me a full size board and case anyday.


I happen to like the smaller board, as I have a full-sized ATX motherboard in the guise of my Athlon and it's size is causing problemswith poor airflow, causing overheating being the biggest problem.
Quote

Quote
The teron uses the VIA 686B southbridge, which has known DMA bugs that are well documented. The Pegasos uses the 8231 southbridge, which is a more modern chipset. In fact, VIA is listing the VT6x series of southbridges as end-of-life when I checked their website. While the VT82xx series has new versions still arriving.


Well this has been debated to death, and I believe it has been pointed out in other threads that the 8231 has some issues of it's own....So let's not call the kettle black yet.

I didn't bring up the issues, I brought up lifespan.  The chip series that the 686B was a part of is end-of-life.  This means eventually they'll run out of parts, and a whole new board will have to be engineered.  The 8231 has a drop-in replacement already availible, the 8235, which means supplies of either the original, or a replacement, will not be an issue in the future.
Quote


Quote
then there's the quality of construction. The Teron board is using every approach to lower the cost of the design. The Pegasos uses higher-quality connectors in almost all cases. Means the Pegasos will last longer in many situations.


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Nice one....nobody can build a quality product but DCE.  Thanks for the laugh.

Did I mention DCE?  I mentioned the components used, not the manufacturer.
Quote


Quote
Also, the positioning of the components on the motherboard can be an issue. The Teron board has plug interfaces at the end of where the PCI slots run, which means if you get a long card, you can't use the hard drives, for example. (before you get into it, I have a pro-studio AGP card here that is from the backplane to the front-brackets in my case, so it does actually occur)


Come on now.  Is it the use of a long PCI card or AGP card that would be a problem.  Everyone with a full length PCI or AGP card raise your hand?  Anyway, it's not like the IDE connectors stick up higher than the actual PCI connector (which cards don't usually go below anyay).  Ok, move the PCI card to another slot then... how about that.  

And if it's an AGP card?
Quote



Quote
Of course, the Teron does support that funky new winmodem port.....


Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. Wrong!  You are not keeping up with the news Downix.  No AMR slot on the PX boards.  (which btw are not only for modems)


I went by the picture of the CX board, as that's the only picture on the website.  I assumed that the slot positionings would remain the same.  If there is a change in the availibility of the AMR, that is my mistake made on lack of data to the contrary.

And if you noticed, I gave that as a plus, not a minus.  The lack of such a slot has hurt my Athlon here, due to lack of ports for a newer modem.

There are some other segments of the Pegasos as well, such as built-in sound, that lend it to being a nicer board.

But it can come down to personal needs and tastes.  I happen to like smaller systems.  I happen to like the locking-plugs used on the Pegasos.  I happen to enjoy the ease of access to the various parts of the system.  And, frankly, I like how the Pegasos looks vs the Teron boards.  Might sound silly, but asthetics do count.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: DaveP on February 06, 2003, 04:07:44 PM
@themamboman

If you didnt want to cause trouble you wouldnt have posted
that. Lets have hard evidence please rather than just
more rumour mongering.

What you are saying might be true or not, but because
you clearly cant substantiate it beyond hearsay in my
opinion you should have clicked CANCEL not SUBMIT.

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: downix on February 06, 2003, 04:07:59 PM
@MarkTime

Interesting points, and ones I'm not entirely deaf to either.

As for the G3 being fine, I actually like the G3 more than the G4.  I see more potential for performance in the G3's architecture.  So I am biased here.  However, G4 boards will be out soon enough, and then we can start comparing these beasts head-to-head-to-head.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: zacman on February 06, 2003, 04:17:48 PM
>What you are saying might be true or not, but
>because you clearly cant substantiate it beyond
>hearsay in my opinion you should have clicked
>CANCEL not SUBMIT.

You mean like certain companies that are officially
saying that some OS is illegal without having any
proof?
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: DaveP on February 06, 2003, 04:20:49 PM
EXACTLY LIKE THAT!  
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Themamboman on February 06, 2003, 04:25:02 PM
Quote

DaveP wrote:
@themamboman

If you didnt want to cause trouble you wouldnt have posted
that. Lets have hard evidence please rather than just
more rumour mongering.



Just thought I would put out a tiny little warning.  I did say that it appeared to be only one person, many years ago.  

It was more than rumor though.  They guy did invent the item.  I was one of the first orders.  I used it.  Others bought it and used it.  And Eyetech did show an identical item on their webpage after he told me that they took it.

The only thing that could have invalidated this was if he was an outright liar.  I had his invention a couple of months before Eyetech showed it for sale.  He excitedly told me in an email that they were reviewing it for possible resale before they started advertising it for sale.  

His was the only working quickcam adapter for the Amiga, so the one they were going to resell was his design.  I can't think of any reason that he would start claiming that they didn't pay him and just started selling clones of his stuff, since lying about it would damage any real deal that they may have had.

Just thought it would be helpful to advise a bit of caution.  Perhaps everyone there now is honest, but at one time, at least one person, who made a good product, claimed they took it from him without compensation.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Ferry on February 06, 2003, 05:08:11 PM

Totally offtopic, but...   }:¬)
 
Quote

zacman wrote:
>What you are saying might be true or not, but
>because you clearly cant substantiate it beyond
>hearsay in my opinion you should have clicked
>CANCEL not SUBMIT.

You mean like certain companies that are officially
saying that some OS is illegal without having any
proof?


You mean like certain Governments wanting to start a war without having any proof? They should click CANCEL too...
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: on February 06, 2003, 05:24:17 PM
@themamboman

Quote
It was more than rumor though. They guy did invent the item. I was one of the first orders. I used it. Others bought it and used it. And Eyetech did show an identical item on their webpage after he told me that they took it.

The only thing that could have invalidated this was if he was an outright liar. I had his invention a couple of months before Eyetech showed it for sale. He excitedly told me in an email that they were reviewing it for possible resale before they started advertising it for sale.


Well someone is certainly lying.

We ordered and paid for 5 evaluation units and bought a quickcam etc to test them with. What arrived were some of the worst home brewed items you have ever seen, built on scraps of perfboard with loose wires everywhere.

We told the developer they were basically unsaleable in that condition, and that he either needed to do a proper engineering job on them or licence us to have them made properly.

We repaired the 5 units, advertised them and had them reviewed in the belief that he would eventually take up one of these manufacturing options - but he never did. We eventually disposed of the last of the 5 units in a bargain basement bin at an Amiga show.

We never built any ourselves nor ever sold any more than the 5 we bought originally.


Do you have a particular agenda in posting libellous nonsense like this?

Please do not post such unfounded and untrue rumours in the future.

Alan Redhouse
Eyetech.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Helgis75 on February 06, 2003, 05:28:14 PM
It's a nice motherboard anyway...
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Themamboman on February 06, 2003, 06:00:43 PM
Quote
Do you have a particular agenda in posting libellous nonsense like this


My apologies.  I had only heard his side of the story, and that was years ago.  

I am surprised that the units you received were in bad shape.  The one I got a couple of months before that was very carefully put together (although it did look like a handmade job, he'd obviously put much time into it).

I wasn't out to cause damage to your business, but more of a word of caution.  I lost contact with him not too long after his initial complaint, so I didn't hear what, if any resolution had occured.

I'm in self-imposed posting exile for a while now.

TheMamboman
 :-(
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: JoannaK on February 06, 2003, 06:03:59 PM
@eyetech

Hi Alan.. As you nowdays seem to be more active here than on official Amiga-one list I would like to ask this thingy and with your permission to post your replies to A-one list?

A) Have those 25 Aone-XE boards arrived and hae they been tested as  was supposed to happen in mid-Janyary?

B) Was that test successfull enough so you have now ordered  production series of XE board to all those who have been expecting them last weeks?

C) Any idea when those boards arrive to you so you can deliver to all customers waiting them. Seen some here, all anxious to install last missing pieces (Motherboard and OS) to their computers.

JoannaK
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: DaveP on February 06, 2003, 06:18:51 PM
@JoannaK

Eyetech have posted 7 times thus far to Amiga.org compared to
many fold that on the A-one list. So that is not really the
case.

In this instance a specific allegation was made that was
damaging and public ( in the same way that mud gets
thrown at Genesi ) and Eyetech were brought here by an
e-mail ( no not mine ) in all probability.

I would not expect them to stick around beyond the apology
note that followed theirs.

Why don't you put your questions to Alan in an e-mail or maybe
even phone Eyetech direct?

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: JoannaK on February 06, 2003, 07:20:30 PM
Quote

DaveP wrote:

Why don't you put your questions to Alan in an e-mail or maybe
even phone Eyetech direct?


This way I only have to copy it once from here  to Amiga-one list. There are many people waiting XE on this board so giving this board release information here would be a good start. I think you too have seen those big threads where people announce what thingies they have purchased to be ready for this board. And If I remember right they were expecting  to have received  those boards by now.

Besides, I don't like talking on non native languages on long distance telephone and taking the risk of misquoting and -understanding. So It's better for all that he answers in here or at A-one mailing list.  And if he decides not to give any answer it's his decision.

My best bet is that we'll hear some exotic excuses next. This A-one making process has been a bit like watching  ST-TNG series  where each episode had it's new 'mysterious particle' causing mishaps and it's handled by some 'random technobabble' .. and then it's all well and forgotten for new episode.  :-P
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: strobe on February 07, 2003, 05:55:13 AM
I'm not a fan of either of these boards. However I will say that built-in firewire has consistently been shown in real world tests to be faster than PCI adaptor cards by a significant margin.

I don't know why that is the case, but it has been.

Anyway hopefully better boards will be on the horizon.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: DaveP on February 07, 2003, 07:33:03 AM
@strobe

Can you find some test results for this?

Out of interest I drove down to PC-World yesterday to
see quite what they had to offer in terms of PCI cards, USB peripherals and Firewire peripherals. Mainly because I needed to buy three network cards for my inbound A1XE.

The answer basically is PCI remains popular for the moment, USB2 phenominally popular at the moment and not one Firewire device was in sight ( apart from
a Mac that had firewire ports ). I asked the salesman ( not renowned for being the most clued up people on the planet ) and he happened to be a Mac enthusiast and he basically said if you are buying it for Firewire you are buying it for the wrong reasons because the Firewire support is notoriously unreliable ( data loss??? ), few useful devices support it and "its about as useless as Bluetooth at the moment, until the PC side of the business starts to support it commonly it is a wasted port".
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Ami603 on February 07, 2003, 09:33:28 AM
Maybe the wait is well worth ;)
what about waiting for all the options to be released and then fully compared?
All of this crap now seems to be pretty useless to me.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Ami603 on February 07, 2003, 09:46:35 AM
I think this thread must end with that:

From: http://www.mai.com/sales/index.html

Thank you, Linux developers!
 Based on the many requests from you at and after the LinuxWorld Conference & Expo, we have decided to make the production version Teron systems using the Teron CX design available for purchasing in the targeted price range of around $500.00 each.

 Iif you are interested in purchasing the Teron motherboards and the Boxer Series computers brought to market by our strategic partner, Terra Soft, please visit http://terrasoftsolutions.com/products/boxer/ .

Hope that this can clear all the FUD.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Ami603 on February 07, 2003, 09:54:51 AM
From Eyetech page:

AmigaOne G3 SE earlybird offer: 580Euros
and yes,that includes Linux distro plus OS4 `enabler kit`
Now seems that the difference in  price only is 80Euros.Let`s wait&see what happens later.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Herewegoagain on February 07, 2003, 12:16:37 PM
Quote
I didn't bring up the issues, I brought up lifespan. The chip series that the 686B was a part of is end-of-life. This means eventually they'll run out of parts, and a whole new board will have to be engineered.


Well, you did go on about the DMA problems with the 686, so..... Ok, you get my point.  And so far as being near the products eol, I would hope that new boards will be in design stage that are using the next generation of Artica P and new generation of processors (hopefully the 970) although that may require even another generation of Artica due to bus speeds etc.  I'll not disagree about the eol.  It is pushing it, but if new boards are designed on next gen specs, the XE will phase out anyway.

 
Quote
You are assuming that there will be a lot of HEAT coming off this motherboard, similar to what one would expect from a PC with AMD processor. However, G3 CPUs run a lot cooler, you don't need a giant heat sink and possibly could get away without a fan in some cases.


No, I have a 450MHz G3 in my Mac, so I know how cool/warm they are.  But no matter.  If you stick it into a small cramped space with bad airflow, it will still run warmer than otherwise.  But the main thing is I just hate small micro ATX boards....and that goes for the PC ones too.

And for all of these:

Quote
There is an AMR slot in MAI docs:
http://www.mai.com/products/BRV852R2.0.pdf
 


Quote
I went by the picture of the CX board, as that's the only picture on the website. I assumed that the slot positionings would remain the same. If there is a change in the availibility of the AMR, that is my mistake made on lack of data to the contrary.


Quote
There are some other segments of the Pegasos as well, such as built-in sound, that lend it to being a nicer board.



See new revison of AmigaOne XE here. (http://www.soft3.net/pages/amigaone_g4xe_full.php)

Note that there is no AMR slot, the back panel is standard ATX layout making it fit any case, no special backplate required, AND it has built on sound.

It actually is a nice board design now.  Much better than the earlier SE and the previous Mai design.

Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: downix on February 07, 2003, 04:13:21 PM
@ Strobe

There have been a few explinations for this.

The most obvious, however, is the low-overhead for Firewire.  To set up a firewire transfer, you just set the source address and target address and transfer size, and it does the job for you.

PCI, by comparison, is high-overhead.  It uses packet-sized, bus arbitration, and most of all, needs to use the CPU for all of this in most systems.  This means that approximately 20-40% of the clock pulses actually can't be used for the bus transfer.  They are used for the electronic equivelent of bookeeping.

When Firewire says 400 or 800Mbps, they mean you get exactly that for performance, due to the low overhead.  PCI's thuroughput, by comparison, comes in at a grizzly 166Mbps in many northbridge combos.  (do the math here, 33Mhz x 32-bits == 1056 Mbps potential for all devices on the bus combined.  A PCI bus allows up to 4 devices, so 1056/4 == 264 Mbps per PCI slot.  Now, some northbridges do better arbitration, allowing a PCI bus to send more bandwidth to a slot if there are fewer devices then 4, but many don't, so we'll stick to the 264Mbps here, to show a worst-case scenario.  Add in the bus overhead, let's say it only has 20%, so 264Mbps x .8 == 211.2  which is barely faster than the slowest Firewire availible, 200Mbps)
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Darth_X on February 07, 2003, 04:18:21 PM
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No, I have a 450MHz G3 in my Mac, so I know how cool/warm they are. But no matter. If you stick it into a small cramped space with bad airflow, it will still run warmer than otherwise. But the main thing is I just hate small micro ATX boards....and that goes for the PC ones too.


OK, no problem.  I prefer smaller more compact motherboards myself :-D

http://www.soft3.net/pages/amigaone_g4xe_full.php
Oh my... what happened to the AMR slot?

 
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It actually is a nice board design now. Much better than the earlier SE and the previous Mai design.


Its an improvement.. but is the CPU still soldered on or is it socketed??? I can't tell in this picture  :-?
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Darth_X on February 07, 2003, 04:25:23 PM
OK, I checked again.. its meg array connector.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: m3x on February 07, 2003, 04:30:50 PM
Just added a few more photos, including one of a G4-XE mobo and one of a dual 7410 cpu module HERE (http://www.soft3.net/pages/pictures.php).
All photos courtesy of Eyetech  :-)

Ciao

Massimiliano Tretene, S o f t 3 (http://www.soft3.net)
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: Herewegoagain on February 07, 2003, 05:20:33 PM
Quote

m3x wrote:
Just added a few more photos, including one of a G4-XE mobo and one of a dual 7410 cpu module HERE (http://www.soft3.net/pages/pictures.php).
All photos courtesy of Eyetech  :-)

Ciao

Massimiliano Tretene, S o f t 3 (http://www.soft3.net)


WOOT!  

Thanks for the new pics.

Hey, that board had a rom in the socket near the PCI slots.... is that the OS4 license rom??
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: JoannaK on February 07, 2003, 05:25:02 PM
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Darth_X wrote:
Oh my... what happened to the AMR slot?


That AMR was removed cause they managed to integrate sound chip to motherboard. When you look at it there are also new audio connectors on back of board.

So yes, it's definitely gone forward. What is needed next is information how well it works in practice this time.  :-P
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: strobe on February 08, 2003, 10:54:50 PM
Regarding the availability of USB versus Firewire devices, they're really not in the same market since USB 2.0 is so damned slow.

USB is a misnomer anyway, it ought to be called USP. You can daisy chain firewire devices even if the devices have differing speeds provided the slower devices are at the end of the chain. You can't do the same with USB without a hub, unless you want the USB 2.0 devices even slower than before.

USB is more of a replacement for the parallel port than say SCSI.

Most high-end peripherals have a firewire version or are only available as firewire. Most drives have both ports.
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: on February 11, 2003, 02:04:22 PM
Teron PX Price in the terrasoft store has gone.
It says now "(Price is being revised)"
Title: Re: Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard
Post by: JoannaK on February 11, 2003, 03:40:25 PM
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weiseb wrote:
Teron PX Price in the terrasoft store has gone.
It says now "(Price is being revised)"


Well.. knowing this community they have propably received more price inquries (and all kinds of threats) than they are willing to handle.   :-o  

But, it's not big issue as long as those boards are not available at all for wider sales.  And based on Eyetech's non-answers I don't expect them to be around anytime soon.